• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

The Central at 5th by Hilton Club-New Location?

dayooper

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Messages
3,945
Reaction score
3,401
Points
349
Location
The Land of Ice and Snow
Resorts Owned
HGVC: The Flamingo, The Boulevard
Just got back from HCNY and found the place to still be very nice. Got the 1BR suite which was very nice. Lounge is "adequate" but not as nice as 57th st. As many know this place is more "hotel like" with daily room service and turn down service. I was immediately hit numerous time to take the "one hour session" where they were going to give us an "exclusive update" on the "NEW" property which is probably what this thread is about. However neither I nor my wife wanted anything to do with it. When I told them that I only wanted to speak with a rep regarding issues I had with purchase, point usage, and misrepresentation of the product things got very cold. They very quickly stated they were busy and they gave me a 15 minute window on Friday afternoon which did not work. Basically unless you want to possibly but something they don't want anything to do with you is the what I experienced. My emails went unanswered where up until that point they were sending me literally several emails a day. As previously mentioned I wouldn't buy another Hilton property retail, developer, or otherwise now. The only good thing is we did like our stay at HCNY and will probably continue to use at this point.

Sorry you had a bad experience. I can definitely see how your salesman turned you off to the system. Sounds like enjoyed HCNY. Hopefully, they can change the system to include other properties. Might be a long shot, but you never know.
 

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,464
Reaction score
7,277
Points
948
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
Is sounds like you made the classic mistake of thinking that a sales-weasel was a human being who would be interested in listening to your issues, even if he stood no chance of making any money off you.

I side with the sales-weasel on this one... It's one thing for marketing to lure someone to an "update" with candy (it's what they do). But complaints only serve to shut 'em down... It doesn't put food on the table.
.
 
Last edited:

brp

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
3,938
Reaction score
2,192
Points
598
Location
Bay Area, CA
Is sounds like you made the classic mistake of thinking that a sales-weasel was a human being who would be interested in listening to your issues, even if he stood no chance of making any money off you. I side with the sales-weasel on this one...

.

While I'm not the biggest fan of sales people, this seems unduly harsh. These folks are human beings trying to make a living. While some do do things that are less professional and quite weasily, we've met quite a few who are not. In the end, there is nothing that they can do about these complaints, so it would be a waste of both their time and the customer's for them to engage on this. To view thinking of them as human as a miskate does not seem fair to me.

Cheers.
 

Nomad420

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
388
Reaction score
99
Points
138
Resorts Owned
HGVC New York Mid Town
Is sounds like you made the classic mistake of thinking that a sales-weasel was a human being who would be interested in listening to your issues, even if he stood no chance of making any money off you.

I side with the sales-weasel on this one... It's one thing for marketing to lure someone to an "update" with candy (it's what they do). But complaints only serve to shut 'em down... It doesn't put food on the table.
.
Certainly was not going to result in a sale and I doubt I am changing anyone's mind on the use of points in the HC. I was just trying to gather information and wasn't particularly surly with them at all. I even said I need not speak with "sales". I suspect had I (and of course my wife) gone to the "update" session we could have asked many of the questions I had but I wanted to be up front with them (mistake). For those interested they moved a sales office apparently onto I believe the 45 floor of the Hilton one floor below I believe the Residences. Not sure what the "new" offering was as I didn't go. The sales office on 57th street is still there as well. I suspect all new properties in NYC are going to be HC's and hence will be restricted in use of points from HGVC properties but I could not get the answer to that while in NY. Personally I think this issue has been misleading at a minimum and more appropriately a rip off to other HGVC property owners. This "club with in a club" thing to me doesn't ring true but it is what it is for now.
 

brp

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
3,938
Reaction score
2,192
Points
598
Location
Bay Area, CA
I suspect all new properties in NYC are going to be HC's and hence will be restricted in use of points from HGVC properties but I could not get the answer to that while in NY. Personally I think this issue has been misleading at a minimum and more appropriately a rip off to other HGVC property owners. This "club with in a club" thing to me doesn't ring true but it is what it is for now.

One things to be clear about (and I think it has been clear elsewhere, but seems less so here): All of the bHC properties except HCNY are limited to other HGVC points, but not restricted. All others allow people from other bHC as well as HGVC into the inventory, albeit with a window reduced from other HGVC uses. Only HCNY is truly restricted to use by other HGVC points.

Again, I believe that this was clear elsewhere, but doesn't seem clear here.

Cheers.
 

Nomad420

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
388
Reaction score
99
Points
138
Resorts Owned
HGVC New York Mid Town
One things to be clear about (and I think it has been clear elsewhere, but seems less so here): All of the bHC properties except HCNY are limited to other HGVC points, but not restricted. All others allow people from other bHC as well as HGVC into the inventory, albeit with a window reduced from other HGVC uses. Only HCNY is truly restricted to use by other HGVC points.

Again, I believe that this was clear elsewhere, but doesn't seem clear here.

Cheers.
Sorry I should have been clear, I was referring to NYC bHC properties, I realize the other bHCs allow limited use of points for booking. Perhaps I am wrong but I thought the Residences in NYC were also "restricted" to use with HGVC points. And again I don't know what the intention is with the "new" property but I am suspicious that it will at a minimum have very limited HGVC point use.
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,749
Reaction score
8,274
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
We attended a presentation in NYC. I found the update worthwhile and I find the NYC HGVC reps to be reasonable (will give a full report of what I learned later). However I agree that they are not the right personnel in HGVC to speak with regarding your HCNY issues because they are not empowered to address your concerns.

What is your goal from the meeting?

1) To have them take your unit back? (unlikely at full price but they will give you something if you contact the buyback (not the sales) office)
2) Exchange to another club point accessible property like W57?
3) To vent so they change their sales practices?
4) Other?

If you would like to pursue #2, I learned that the Florida telesales office does not have the overhead, has access to all of the inventory, and can cut more lucrative deals. To trade your unit into a club accessible property such as W57 perhaps that might be a good place to go and perhaps they could take your unit as trade in and waive the min upgrade so it is an even swap given your concerns.

You might be able to check around TUG for a VP contact to approve a waiver in #2.

It's good that you are using your property. I am trying to suggest some constructive ideas to make your ownership work better for you.
 
Last edited:

brp

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
3,938
Reaction score
2,192
Points
598
Location
Bay Area, CA
Sorry I should have been clear, I was referring to NYC bHC properties, I realize the other bHCs allow limited use of points for booking. Perhaps I am wrong but I thought the Residences in NYC were also "restricted" to use with HGVC points. And again I don't know what the intention is with the "new" property but I am suspicious that it will at a minimum have very limited HGVC point use.

Yes, you are incorrect. Only HCNY is restricted. The others (Residences and W. 57th) allow HGVC use with relatively short windows. I would expect the same of the new property inasmuch as HCNY is the oldest and all of the newer ones have gone with the "allowed, but time-limited" model.

Cheers.
 

Nomad420

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
388
Reaction score
99
Points
138
Resorts Owned
HGVC New York Mid Town
Love to hear your report back on the "update". As for as "goals", all I wanted was some answers to several specific questions I had about the point use between bHC and HGVC. As indicated above there is confusion about this for sure. I thought about your exchange question but have pretty much been told it would be a loose loose situation and really not looking for that as I don't wish to sink any further cash into bHC/HGVC. As far as "venting", well I am beyond that and figure what ever I say would go in one ear and out the other so I have no false pretenses that this would do anything. I plan on using what I have for now and into the foreseeable future but will obviously not add any HGVC properties. For now it is what it is but it would have been nice to have a Vegas property with the flexibility of using those points at HCNY. I realize I can do the opposite (HCNY points in Vegas) but for my purposes that is less appealing and less likely. One option is to purchase more HCNY property retail if it could be obtained on the cheap but that also has its drawbacks (high MFs). Also, the good news/bad news is HCNY property value, even retail, is holding up pretty well so getting it "on the cheap" is not likely (at least for now).
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,749
Reaction score
8,274
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
@Nomad420 that is helpful information. You have nothing to lose by asking but you will need someone high up in the organization to approve it to resolve your customer satisfaction issues. Sales people are not empowered do it and won't get paid for it so no incentive.
 
Last edited:

tombanjo

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
1,511
Reaction score
2,520
Points
324
Resorts Owned
HCNY
Per recent presentation, Central is being sold at pre-construction prices, which are less than current w57th prices. The lower end units are sold out for this phase. They are "using the plans" from 57th street, so rooms will be the same. I guess the good news is there is a lot of continued interest and developer sales in NYC. So us lowly resale owners should be ok. If there is high demand for retail price, resale prices will have support at least at present levels. Once the availability of Quin and Central rooms comes online, us "classic" owners might have more availability. Since I am new, not sure if the Residences caused any disturbances in the ether in terms of price and availability.
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,749
Reaction score
8,274
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
@tombanjo Thanks for the update. Did they provide you with the MF on the units? We were quoted at early construction stage pricing a platinum studio Penthouse 14,400 pts $129k with a $3,800 MF; A one bedroom gold with 14,500 points is in the $79k range. Didn't get quotes for smaller units perhaps because sold out.

The building is a doppelganger for W57 but there will be retail on the bottom two floors. Building doesn't appear to have views and IMO W57 is in a better location near Central Park on Billionaires Row.

We were told HGVC thought they were going to have more W57/Central at 5th type buildings constructed throughout NYC but the 2008 crash occurred. They are now regaining steam with new properties built by third parties and are ramping up the NYC sales offices = more presentation offers.

Here is the points chart we received:

The Central at 5th

Platinum 7-28, 35 - 52
Studio 5250
Studio Plus 7200
Studio Premier 9300
Studio Premier Plus 12,600
Studio Penthouse 14,400

1 Bdrm Premier 16,800
1 Bdrm Penthouse 21,000


Gold 1 - 6, 29 - 34

Studio 3250
Studio Plus 5100
Studio Premier 6300
Studio Premier Plus 8700
Studio Penthouse 10,500

1 Bdrm Premier 11,600
1 Bdrm Penthouse 14,500

 
Last edited:

tombanjo

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
1,511
Reaction score
2,520
Points
324
Resorts Owned
HCNY
I didn't get MF numbers as it was obvious there was no way I was buying anything and the lower priced units were sold out. I did get my elevated gift certificates, and most likely I will never be asked to a presentation again.
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,749
Reaction score
8,274
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
They seem to have added another "Studio" tier to this building but it has the same number of points required as W57 "Studio Plus" units.

They also indicated that Central at 5th sales were strong. FWIW, Although reps lips were moving, I find the NYC reps to be more professional and informative; they don't play the stupid sales games that we have experienced in other sales offices. Perhaps because they are offering a more cost effective alternative to buyers compared to a full NYC condo?

I actually thought they were going to sell us on the Quin so I was surprised when then spoke about Central at 5th. Here is what we learned about the Quin:

Quin

1) The Quin at Central Park (across the street from W57) will be a different product. It is targeted for an upscale buyer who is willing to drop at least $250k or more on a unit. Apparently there are a number of owners at W57 who own several studios and have paid in $125k on their purchases to stay multiple weeks (or perhaps need multiple rooms for family.) The Quin will appeal to such buyers because adding another $125k to upgrade on Billionaires Row is still much less expensive than buying a similarly located NYC condo. IMO...I wonder if Quin will be treated like HCNY with no club access. Or will be will be longer-term fractionals instead of weekly timeshares for that price.


2) Because of the price tag, Quin will be rolled out more slowly - floor by floor and unit by unit. Don't expect a surge of units available for club.
 
Last edited:

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,749
Reaction score
8,274
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
Here's another tidbit from the visit:

1) AirBnB's and VRBO's are now illegal in NYC. So if you rent in the future in a separate unit from someone's home, the person renting to you may be breaking the law and could put your vacation at risk. However this law is being legally challenged in the courts: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/nyregion/nyc-airbnb-rentals.html Bottom line: if you AirBnB in NYC check the latest on this law.


2) If the AirBnB ban prevails, NYC timeshare owners are excepted from the NYC law. Timeshare owners can rent out their unit because timeshares are not considered to be displacing rental units for residents (its more like a hotel). This is a positive development for timeshare owners as demand will be higher without competition from AirBnB/VRBO units.
 
Last edited:

Tamaradarann

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
3,369
Reaction score
1,297
Points
548
Location
Honolulu, HI
Resorts Owned
HGVC South Beach, HGVC Las Vegas, HGVC Las Vegas on the Strip, HGVC Sea World, Misner Place
I just saw a headline that Turtle Bay is starting a major renovation. There was no mention of HGV, so i assume nothing is imminent there.

At one one of the investor meetings in the past year, management was asked about areas or regions that interested them for expansion. They again mentioned California as area prime for expansion. No mention of San Francisco specifically, but California in general. Lots of areas that could be interesting.

There has been no mention of China by HGV in at least a year. My guess is that is not moving forward at this time due to several factors. The major Chinese Insurance company that had been a major shareholder, had to sell all their HGV shares because of changes in regulations. Couple that with the cooling of the Chinese economy and trade war concerns i doubt they move forward with that idea. But thats just my guess.

An interesting point about Turtle Bay is that the new Vice President and General Manager of Turtle Bay is Jerry Gibson, who was Area Vice President of all Hilton Hawaiian Operations including the timeshares on Oahu and Hawaii Island.
 

jehb2

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
2,174
Reaction score
952
Points
473
Location
texas
Is Turtle Bay still remote. Whenever we use to drive by it seemed out in the middle of nowhere.
 

brp

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
3,938
Reaction score
2,192
Points
598
Location
Bay Area, CA
Here's another tidbit from the visit:

1) AirBnB's and VRBO's are now illegal in NYC. So if you rent in the future in a separate unit from someone's home, the person renting to you may be breaking the law and could put your vacation at risk. However this law is being legally challenged in the courts: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/nyregion/nyc-airbnb-rentals.html Bottom line: if you AirBnB in NYC check the latest on this law.

This has been the case for some number of years now- a decade or more. A good friend had a business in New York where they rented apartments on a monthly basis and rented them out short-term for people who wanted that instead of standard hotels. They were not able to do this in NYC as of quite a while back and where in Jersey City, which had spectacular views of Manhattan.

Cheers.
 

Nomad420

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
388
Reaction score
99
Points
138
Resorts Owned
HGVC New York Mid Town
Not wanting to beat a dead horse and some of my question may not have answers to but here they are:
Will Central at 5th be HGVC (not byHC) and will they accept all points from all other properties (with restrictions of course)?
The Residence Club, does it accept points from all other HGVC properties and what is the booking window?
Is The Quinn also to be a HGVC or byHC property or something completely different?
Having recently visited the Residence Club I was pretty impressed but it was indeed pricey with little to nothing now present on the resale market fwiw.
 
Last edited:

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,749
Reaction score
8,274
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
All NYC is bHC. There will be a 60 day club window. However I got the impression Quin may be something completely different akin to HCNY or a fractional akin to the Ritz Carlton Residences - but this is speculation at this point because they haven't started selling yet. :shrug: One thing we do know is that it won't be HGVC Club.

We were told that bHC is driven by the average daily rate of the hotels in the area to support the 50:1 HHonors conversion. Chicago could not consistently meet that test. NYC passes that test handily as will other major cities such as SF.
 
Last edited:

Cyberc

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
2,094
Reaction score
643
Points
223
Location
Denmark
@tombanjo Thanks for the update. Did they provide you with the MF on the units? We were quoted at early construction stage pricing a platinum studio Penthouse 14,400 pts $129k with a $3,800 MF; A one bedroom gold with 14,500 points is in the $79k range. Didn't get quotes for smaller units perhaps because sold out.

The building is a doppelganger for W57 but there will be retail on the bottom two floors. Building doesn't appear to have views and IMO W57 is in a better location near Central Park on Billionaires Row.

We were told HGVC thought they were going to have more W57/Central at 5th type buildings constructed throughout NYC but the 2008 crash occurred. They are now regaining steam with new properties built by third parties and are ramping up the NYC sales offices = more presentation offers.

Here is the points chart we received:

The Central at 5th

Platinum 7-28, 35 - 52
Studio 5250
Studio Plus 7200
Studio Premier 9300
Studio Premier Plus 12,600
Studio Penthouse 14,400

1 Bdrm Premier 16,800
1 Bdrm Penthouse 21,000


Gold 1 - 6, 29 - 34

Studio 3250
Studio Plus 5100
Studio Premier 6300
Studio Premier Plus 8700
Studio Penthouse 10,500

1 Bdrm Premier 11,600
1 Bdrm Penthouse 14,500

Those point requirements are insane, who can afford prices like that? I mean if $130k is a drop in the bucket for a week in a studio, I would assume you could afford to buy a real apartment in NYC.

The more we see of these pricing the more I like my West57 :)

What I dont understand is that the market for a studio, plus and premier is much bigger compared to the market for the most expensive units ie Penthouses. Why build the expensive ones as its more difficult to get rid of them afterwards?
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,749
Reaction score
8,274
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
Those point requirements are insane, who can afford prices like that? I mean if $130k is a drop in the bucket for a week in a studio, I would assume you could afford to buy a real apartment in NYC.

The more we see of these pricing the more I like my West57 :)

What I dont understand is that the market for a studio, plus and premier is much bigger compared to the market for the most expensive units ie Penthouses. Why build the expensive ones as its more difficult to get rid of them afterwards?

IMO...some folks want the prestige of saying they "own a NYC penthouse." NYC buyers are competing with the world for limited real estate. Not just competing against locals, and this drives up values. I think you would need to spend $1 - 5 million to get equivalent condo on the same street in Manhattan. Remember that W57 is on Billionaire's row. It's all relative.
 

Cyberc

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
2,094
Reaction score
643
Points
223
Location
Denmark
IMO...some folks want the prestige of saying they "own a NYC penthouse." NYC buyers are competing with the world for limited real estate. Not just competing against locals, and this drives up values. I think you would need to spend $1 - 5 million to get equivalent condo on the same street in Manhattan. Remember that W57 is on Billionaire's row. It's all relative.
I guess your right.

It will be interesting to see how much their ownerships will be worth when new owners at these properties tries to sell in a few years.
 

1Kflyerguy

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
3,430
Reaction score
1,528
Points
399
Location
San Jose, Ca
Resorts Owned
HGVC Kings Land, Elara, and Marriott Destination Club Points
IMO...some folks want the prestige of saying they "own a NYC penthouse." NYC buyers are competing with the world for limited real estate. Not just competing against locals, and this drives up values. I think you would need to spend $1 - 5 million to get equivalent condo on the same street in Manhattan. Remember that W57 is on Billionaire's row. It's all relative.

Its probably a safe assumption that many retail buyers finance their purchases. Its much easier to finance a $130K purchase than $1-5 million purchase, at least for me it would be.
 

Cyberc

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
2,094
Reaction score
643
Points
223
Location
Denmark
Its probably a safe assumption that many retail buyers finance their purchases. Its much easier to finance a $130K purchase than $1-5 million purchase, at least for me it would be.

Your right. Unless you take a mortgage against your house you will pay a high interest rate and with a $130k loan you will have some hefty payments.
 
Top