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Sometimes it's better to buy from the brand [says Timeshare Salesman]

CalGalTraveler

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Name a developer brand which will "GUARANTEE" an NYC week any time you wanted? Not based on availability?

There is the trade off of flexibility (float) vs. fixed unit and week which makes it impossible to guarantee if float. Guaranteeing a float is like squaring a circle. Fixed weeks enable guarantee but largely went away in the last decade due to lack of popularity.

For float, Hilton Club NY (HCNY) comes close because the only people who can book rooms own there. But not guaranteed because float/flexible.

We own HGVC W57 NYC and the availability is excellent for owners during the owner booking window up to 60 days prior. However may not get dates in exact unit desired within 2 - 3 months of stay on popular weekends but have been able to get New Years 4 - 5 months prior.
 

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I doubt there is any timeshare anywhere were you can decide on Dec 24th you want Christmas week to new years and be guaranteed it. Here is a screen shot showing availability at Hilton Club New York for this week through end of Feb. Lots of last minute availability except Saturdays. If you want a whole week, two weeks out would be first available. That is a silly premise to judge by.

Capture.JPG
 

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Can you give us the details of any contract your company sells? Resort, season, size, maintenance fees, number of points, bonus points, purchase price, interest rate if financed. We will then be able to compare with the resale market.

I'd really rather not say, for professional reasons, which is why I quoted the average 2017 price of a timeshare (as per ARDA, source attached) as $22,180 (and $980 maintenance, should it ever become relevant). I will admit that my company will offer 3-5+ weeks as a first day incentive, which is why I offered that as an example, for I'd be shocked if my company was significantly above the industry average in that regard. That said, I'm prepared to be shocked, if anyone has contrary experience or data.
 

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maxpot46

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So, a savvy investor would bargain for 5 weeks of bonus instead of 3. Have you ever considered that the average "prospect" is on vacation and has never been a student of timeshare....... The students of timeshare live on this site. And they can't believe the drivel that you are expounding. You think that people who buy timeshares are sophisticated purchasers?? Stop.... please Stop....

I see many guests, and some are better negotiators than others. Many don't even try. Negotiation is a life skill that goes beyond the timeshare space.
 

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The fact your are missing are most timeshares are free or very low in price thus no cash outlay or minimal cash outlay. No need to pay lots of money to save money as your example shows. Are there exceptions that supports your theory, occasionally(rarely) but most often not.

I'm focusing on those exceptions (positing that they exist, so thanks for your admission in that regard) from high-end brands with strong ROFRs to protect the brand. I certainly don't deny that there are a lot of timeshares that can be had for free or close to it. But some commit a composition fallacy by extending this fact with an overly broad brush.
 

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I own lower end stuff like Grandview that is in RCI Points. And I own multiple high end stuff at two different Hyatt locations. I also own middle of the road stuff like Wyndham and Worldmark. I have bought everyone of mine via resell, some via brokers and some direct with seller.

The way I see it is: What you guys in timeshare companies offer people in hard pressure sales presentation is always smoke and mirrors. All the perks, bonuses etc that don't transfer with the ownership are used to get people to buy were never part of the ownership in the first place. These are always perks that can be changed at any time, and trust me you guys change them from time to time. Reading your opening monologue you feel these are of tremendous value, but the reality is the fact they can not be transferred makes them of no value. An asset with zero liquidity has not value. In fact a timeshare is one of if not the only things in life the majority of the people pay lots of money for and then again are willing to pay lots of money to get rid of in the end, as it is a debt you can never pay off. When a person owns one they have given their HOA's a blank check to charge them what ever they may till they dispose of the unit.

Then you suggest that people that want low end stuff may buy resell. I can tell you each of my Grandview weeks I have have in RCI Points were original sold to original owner for over $18K each, my cost under 3% of this all in and I got 3 years worth of points. So you can get bonus points buying resell too! I have the same benefits as if I bought direct. My Wyndham contracts same type of story, but I paid even a lower %. My Wyndham contracts are not eligible to qualify for VIP status only real perk of value I lose by buying resell. I can't use club pass, but I own Worldmark so I wouldn't anyway. Oh and I can't use my points to pay my MF's.. But why would you do this anyway it a poor value.

My WorldMark Contracts I paid the greatest % of normal direct sell price. I paid around 12% of developer costs. I can't join travelshare, but its a scam anyway so no real loss. My credits can't be used for elite tier status anyway. The only large benefit to elite tier status is fee WIFI I think and no housekeeping if you are top tier. But My Worldmark is a NHK account so I got the no house keeping feature anyway. All my WorldMark accounts came as fully loaded accounts meaning 2 years of credits available and one even had 12000 expired credits in a reservation I was able to change and use. Again bonus credits buying resell

My two Hyatt weeks original owners paid almost a combined $70K I paid less than 8% of this all in and got 3 years worth of credits with one contact having 2 years in EEE and 1 year in LCUP points. So again you can get bonus point buying resell. The only thing I can't do is convert my points to World of Hyatt points which is of poor value anyway. As far as ROFR both of these passed ROFR. While ROFR helps keep prices slightly elevated you can still get great deals.

So why you sell smoke and mirrors to the unsuspecting people not understanding what you are offering them of value is not in their contract or deed. I will be happy with what I have bought. But as a tugger I have to say, I am happy people exist to sell timeshares for the developers. So when the people who bought them are ready to get out I can pick up a good resell contract for peanuts.

I love timesharing and I always try to avoid staying in hotels if I don't have too. Once you get used to the size and quality of timeshare life its hard to ever want to stay in a hotel. I accept what MF's are because I went into this fully understanding my obligations and risks, and I have an exit strategy should I decide in the future to par it down some or completely.

There are only two situations I would ever buy direct from a developer. I may one day when I get to retirement age consider buying enough Wyndham points via telesales to PIC two 3 bedroom units to get me to Wyndham VIP Gold. If my grand babies to be become Disney buffs I might buy a small amount of DVC points to get the perks but would buy most DVC points on resell market. But I doubt I would ever buy DVC, so the Wyndham telesales is likely the only one I would ever consider.

I don't sell with smoke and mirrors... I detest the emotional song-and-dance. I prefer to sell the steak, not the sizzle, and I'm certainly proud of these products because they save people a lot of money even if the deed retains zero equity value (and I have both the spreadsheets and the Goldman Sachs analysis to prove it). The deeds can be transferred via inheritance or buyback, which establishes a floor on their value, with the potential to get more on the resale market, so I'm not sure your argument that they have no value holds water.

I appreciate your anecdotes. Would you say that these were excellent deals, or were they normal by resale standards? Do you consider that product a premium one?
 

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We don’t know if there is something wrong. We have no basis to know where the numbers came from, what systems were used and what seasons these are based off of. We don’t even know if the $22,000 is from the same set of data as the $8,750 for the 5 weeks or if the bonus points can be used in the same place/system that the $22,000 data point came from. Were the numbers hand picked? Without a source from reputable organization, they are meaningless. It’s an old salesman trick. Build up their trust in you, dazzle ‘em with meaningless numbers and don’t give them time to process it. There’s an old saying that numbers and facts don’t lie. Well they do if they are told from a particular perspective. I suggest you check out The Dihyrdogen Monoxide page or dmho.org to see how facts can be twisted to fit one’s narrative.

I love the part I quoted. Put the burden of proof that the numbers aren’t wrong back on the one questioning it. Is there something wrong with the numbers? If there is, show me is what that really means. I believe you have reasons other than civil discussion to be here, but that’s for a different conversation that I won’t get into with you. I could say more on your post, but I’ve said my peace on the biggest issue I have with your argument.

I correctly stated the industry averages (source: ARDA), and I obviously had to estimate a rent/night cost which people are free to attack as unrealistic. I think a rack rate of $220/night (+15% taxes for around $250/night) is perfectly reasonable, but I'm willing to hear why it's not. Given that this is an internet forum, I trust you have time to "process" my claims, or maybe even do your own research.
 

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I assume that you are relatively new in the industry and you are just repeating what you were told during the training sessions. I cannot imagine a veteran timeshare sales person who knows the reality trying to debate this matter on TUG of all the places.

If this is the case and we are indeed bursting the bubble, sorry, this may negatively impact your future sales performance.
The silver lining, you may be learning something new and, who knows, maybe you will buy retail yourself one day.

I'm relatively new, I suppose, but not that new, but with my consulting background and Ivy League Economics degree, I've found that my knowledge of the product has quickly outstripped that of my colleagues. I have done a tremendous amount of research to support my assertions, which I present to my guests, as I don't like to make unsupported claims. When I say that my company will buy back their deed and invoke their ROFR at around 50% of the market value, I support it by showing a post from an owner in a Redweek forum who admits that he received a 50% offer from my company. When I say that Goldman Sachs studied the industry and concluded that they offer a net savings, I show the report. When I say that MY company will save them X dollars, I show them the NPV spreadsheet I created that proves it and send it to them via email so that they can examine every cell (and some OCD financial folks have done exactly that). When I tell people that my company doesn't have availability issues, I actually take them into the website and show them the availability for the dates they want to travel. So I'm quite comfortable engaging in dialectic even with sophisticated owners, as I don't make unsupported claims.
 

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I appreciate the conversation because perhaps there is something I don't know. Here is what I know about our hotel-branded timeshares:
  • We bought NYC developer. Although we enjoy the property, the 70% loss in value which we will never recoup makes me sick.
    • We frequently attend owner updates to collect as many gift cards and discounted vacations to recoup ROI but have yet to find a developer deal that pencils in better than resale. (you can fool me once...)
  • We own Maui OF resale purchased for 12k, another premium location. The seller paid $70k to the developer so that's $5800 a year capital loss in addition to $2,700 Maintenance fee ($8,500/year spent/lost) over the 10 years they owned the week. That's significantly more expensive than renting. We will recoup the value of our resale purchase in 3 years and are happy.
  • Why would I spend $129,000 for a new developer purchase, knowing that it will devalue by 70% or more, when I can put the $129,000 in a CD earning 3% and use the 3% annual interest to rent the same unit and then get my $129,000 capital back at any time with no strings attached?
What say you? What are those premium location deals?

NYC is a premium deed, given the real estate values and the fact that there are only 6 timeshare properties in the city (5 if you don't count the infamous lemon Manhattan Club).

Hawaii? High demand, but also high supply with nearly 300 timeshares in the state. Also, I hear they have hurricanes and volcanoes there. I'd be hard-pressed to call that "premium", though certainly a popular location.

I have created an Investment vs. Own spreadsheet to examine this proposition, and timeshare wins the numbers (though investing does fare better than renting). 3% interest on a $129k investment is $3,870 per year, which is only $3,290 per year after the capital gains tax (let's generously assume you pay no broker's fees), which at $250/night after taxes would only pay for 13 nights a year. Due to inflation, that set amount would pay for less and less time every year thereafter. Whereas a plan from my company of that price would cover over 4 weeks per year in a 1-bedroom, in perpetuity. Furthermore, your capital would not appreciate since you're withdrawing the capital gains (no "magic of compound interest"), and in fact would depreciate due to inflation and the discount rate. Investing in a vacation fund is not superior to owning a timeshare... this is true even at the more generous 5% rate of return on investment that I assume in my spreadsheet.
 

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Perhaps the OP is taking part in some weird hazing ritual for a new timeshare sales position? "Go on TUG and post how great a developer purchase can be!" If they survive the thread without getting too angry or discouraged, and they STILL want to sell timeshares, they get put on the floor.

If the OP has a great deal that is as good or better than a typical resale (not an inflated imaginary price) in the resort system they work for, I think they should post an ad in the TUG Marketplace. If it was spelled out in detail and we had time to research all the benefits, maybe they would find some buyers. In a 90-minute high pressure presentation, where a decision has to be made RIGHT NOW!!!, I always have such a hard time figuring out all the numbers scribbled upside down on scratch paper for weeks, seasons, points, discounts, trade-in value, extra points, bonus weeks, etc. It's always hard to see why I should buy retail when I'm already enjoying my free/highly discounted timeshares at the resort. But, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything there is to know about timeshares (that's what I'm here on TUG - to keep learning!) so maybe I'm missing something? I'm from Missouri, so as we say here, "Show Me!"

I've read thousands of threads here on TUG, so I value the input of its contributors.

I'm not comfortable revealing company specifics here for professional reasons, but I do agree with you that most reps show the numbers in a most "salespersonish" way. That's why I went to the trouble of creating NPV spreadsheets that allow me to show the value proposition in graph form, which is excellent both for the financially savvy (who can examine the calculations) and unsavvy (who can comprehend the graph).
 
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maxpot46

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I've read thousands of threads here on TUG, so I value the input of its contributors.

I'm not comfortable revealing company specifics here for professional reasons, but I do agree with you that most reps show the numbers in a most retarded way. That's why I went to the trouble of creating NPV spreadsheets that allow me to show the value proposition in graph form, which is excellent both for the financially savvy (who can examine the calculations) and unsavvy (who can comprehend the graph).

Worse, they use nominal figures instead of discounted NPV analysis, which I consider deceptive. But they don't know any better, salespeople are basically the jocks from high school (i.e. not that smart when it comes to finance).
 

silentg

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So you are selling timeshare weeks, points, for $22,000 average ?
We own 6 timeshares and even the one we bought at Orange Lake was no where near that price.
All are resales and we are happy with the resorts we have. Been able to exchange thru RCI, II, TP, VRI,
DAE, and Tug Marketplace Direct Exchange.
We are downsizing our portfolio, and we never want to go to a Timeshare Presentation again.
We bought in, so we don’t need to be persuaded to buy more.
Good Luck with Sales!
Silentg
 

maxpot46

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Hello,
I suspect from your comments that you work for Hilton. But just in case I'll go through the reasons when to and when not to buy from the developer for all major brands.

Hilton: no developer perks of value (*story about elite bands at the end of this post). Huge discount buying resale outweighs initial purchase points, even in NYC as noted above. I think HGVC is a great product (to purchase resale) because of the flexibility.

Marriott: There is no cheap access to the points system. Some tuggers advocate purchasing a combined week/points package from sales. I think (if you MUST have MVC points) the optimal decision is to buy the smallest possible points package resale and then rent in points for slightly more than the points MF. You would never recover the purchase price of developer points compared to this method unless you absolutely always work the perks (13 month is unreliable, would need to make it up on discounts). For many/most, legacy resale weeks will be the optimal choice. It has less access to their newest "resorts" but those are basically all hotels. If you want a hotel book priceline or similar.

Hyatt: pure points is a tire fire. The legacy points system is complicated but works well, and transfers with resale weeks. Resale weeks are WAY cheaper than developer weeks, even in their top tier locations like Maui. Incentives don't make up the difference.

Vistana: the staroption system is open to resale owners. Also, both westin and Sheraton flex can be purchased resale. Huge discounts available for exactly the same thing. IF someone happens to travel a lot in Marriott hotels (but not so much they have status) AND has the time to travel to Vistana timeshares, it might make sense to buy large Vistana deeds resale. Then trade some in on small upgrade purchases to requalify he remainder. I think this is poor value, but the perk isn't otherwise available.

Holiday Inn: points are available resale at certain resorts. Perks are significant, but so is the purchase price. Many of the "signature" resorts can be substituted by trades to nearby resorts, or into weeks owned by legacy ownerships at the same resort. The value of the perks/incentives doesn't justify buying developer.

Worldmark: the perk for buying developer is called travelshare. The stuff that comes with it can be acquired cheaper by buying it. It also comes with club pass (aka access to leftover wyndham units) if that is a big value buy a wyndham deed, otherwise trade with a wyndham owner who wants worldmark access (I've done this, it works). Super-duper elite level (73k developer) comes with free housekeeping, but that perk can be acquired over 100k cheaper by buying a grandfathered no housekeeping resale. Resales come with everything else at huge discounts. Worldmark has higher resale than almost any other system and the incentives aren't even close.

Wyndham: the perks for buying developer are VIP. The discounts have some value for last minute booking. They recently neutered VIP by cancelling a sales-promoted tactic called cancel-rebook, which is a good reminder that the non-deeded "perks" that come with developer purchases can be changed or cancelled at any time. The deeded stuff that is guaranteed comes with a resale. For the vast, vast majority of people resale is better here. It's way cheaper (95%+) and you have to work the discounts to justify VIP big time. I think it probaby only makes sense if your buy tons of resale points and rent out. Some tuggers got VIP with resale in the past (as far as I know that isn't possible now - if it is I'd love a PM) but you can PIC resale weeks through telesales to get it at lower cost. It still never makes sense to buy at a resort.

Shell - points are free with free usage resale. Developer perks are not meaningful.

Diamond - The Club is only available developer. I think the value here is poor, and the benefits of The Club don't outweigh the massively increased cost of buying retail (or upgrading via retail).

Welk - points are available resale. The cheapness of resale points outweighs incentives/perks.

Bluegreen - resale owners need to be careful which trust/type they buy, but given resales are free/cheap this restriction is minimal, imo.

Breckenridge Grand - resales are way cheaper. Biggest developer perk is day use for skiing. My understanding is that everyone gets it at their original resort so buy resale there if that is important (check this before buying, I don't own here).

Disney - Significant disney related perks for buying direct. Most notably access to the Gold annual pass. Not applicable for FL residents who can get it anyway. If you would otherwise buy annual passes at regular price AND a DVC resale, a small developer purchase may make sense. You should do a spreadsheet of total cost of both options for the life of the contract. If you assume a reasonable rate of return on the extra initial capital it isn't a slam dunk. Anything more than the minimum should be purchased resale.

Grandview - great rci points units available resale at 90% off. Buy that not developer. Not even close.

Anyway, in the spirit of analytical dialogue I've tried to be comprehensive. Since you have so far declined to state who you work for (your prerogative) I've summarized the case for buying resale/developer for every brand I could think of.

If I missed some or you'd like to discuss one of them in further detail let me know. I'd be happy to spreadsheet out the details on any of my assertions. I'm on my phone right now or I would have done a more complete analysis.

**almost forgot - I stayed at HGVC Kings Land last week. Two bedroom unit in phase 1, which I believe is 9600 HGVC points. I traded in through RCI with a timeshare I got for free.

I couldn't help thinking when I saw folks wearing the "elite" wristbands that they looked handy for not carrying a key card. I estimated the value to me at $20 though, not $50,000....

Excellent post, thanks a lot. I greatly appreciate the time and effort it took to create that post, and it's super awesome to hear a summary like this of the major brands in the space. You possess the spirit of honest dialectic, which is rare and always a pleasure to encounter. Bravo.
 

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Hi PamMo,
I like the "weird hazing ritual" concept .

Re : 90 minute high pressure presentation .....numbers scribbled upside down ...
I guess you have done a couple of Vidanta presentations -
LoL

Maybe the OP should go on vacation to Mexico & learn from the experts !

I was nearly fired for refusing to manipulate guest's emotions, only my excellent sales performance saved me. I'm still very controversial in the office for my "overly" logical approach, but I don't need to manipulate when the truth is on my side, and I can prove it. Now I'm just "that guy" with the "gadgets" (i.e. a PowerPoint instead of pencil & paper, an Excel spreadsheet and graphs instead of bald assertions based on nominal figures).
 

tschwa2

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I correctly stated the industry averages (source: ARDA), and I obviously had to estimate a rent/night cost which people are free to attack as unrealistic. I think a rack rate of $220/night (+15% taxes for around $250/night) is perfectly reasonable, but I'm willing to hear why it's not. Given that this is an internet forum, I trust you have time to "process" my claims, or maybe even do your own research.
I haven't heard of anyone paying $20,000 and getting $8000+ in additional free usage. In Wyndham for example if you buy 149,000 points for say $22,000 you would be lucky to get $2500 in usage and temporary status. In order to be able get $5000-$8,000 in quantifiable benefits within the first 5 years beyond those if you bought resale, you would be looking at spending a minimum of $80,000.

There certainly are some tuggers who after careful analysis have purchased hybrid plans or limited developer purchases that allow them to bring in previous purchases but I don't know of anyone who just happens to get roped into a presentation who stumbles onto any offeres or negotiated deal that offers anything like 40% of the total amount paid let alone justifying the difference in the cost of resale vs retail.

You also talk about developers aggressively using ROFR to maintain the product value. The only developer who uses consistent aggressive ROFR is DVC. DVC has recently in the last 5 years started to erode the benefits passed along with resale. Instead of protecting the value of the resale it will probably lead to a decline in the value of resales which will probably lead to a lowering of the level of ROFR.
 

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I have never, not once, seen a sales incentive that made up for the cost difference of buying resale vs. the developer. And, that makes sense, because the value of those things is often mythical ("a value of $250/night" but no one ever pays that much). When it's real, the sales office has to pay for them out of its marketing budget. You didn't even come up with a good example. For many systems, your 40% of the purchase price makes up for only half of what the purchase loses the day the legal right to rescind expires, and it's a hypothetical so you may as well just be making things up.

We've had a lot of people try hard to justify a developer purchase on dollars-and-cents terms. The best I've ever seen required everything to break exactly right, a tremendous amount of luck finding discounted reservations of value, and even then only broke even. Maybe. Some of those people buy from the developer anyway, but it's for emotional reasons not financial. Those can be worth it to some; depends on how you value the non-monetary aspects of being a "full owner" or whatever. But, the money argument just doesn't work.

In short: welcome to my ignore list. Now go away.

My spreadsheet takes into account whatever bonuses they receive... as I mentioned, some people are better negotiators than others, so the amount varies considerably.

Do people seriously pay less than $220/night rack rate (at 15% taxes that comes in at $253/night) in premium locations during high season?

I don't deny that buying from a reseller can often be an advantage. But I've run spreadsheets where they don't, because they receive gimped products without bonus points (generally).
 

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A lot. Your values are way high. Where does a retail purchase come with 3 to 5 weeks of free usage for a timeshare week valued at 1750? That is pretty high end. Also again you have undervalued the savings on resale. PS one of the timeshares I bought came with 1 yr of usage and I paid 1 dollar all in. My guess is that is much more than 50% off. In fact it is incalculable.

Also again I will ask. Why would you buy a timeshare retail that is impossible to sell resale because of developer limitations? I would rather rent from all those disgruntled owners who cannot get out.

It seems to me that $220/night + taxes is a reasonable rack rate for luxury accomodation in premium locations in high season. If you can prove otherwise, I'd be delighted to hear it... the average hotel ADR across all Motel 6's and Ritz-Carlton's is still $140/night.

I'm sure you can get some timeshares for $1. I'm talking about major brands which have and exercise a ROFR (which itself varies depending on developer need, so I'm sure one can find exceptions, but I can prove that my company will exercise their ROFR at 50% of current market value, so anecdotes about getting them cheaper don't disprove the trend revealed by empirical data).
 

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A lot. Your values are way high. Where does a retail purchase come with 3 to 5 weeks of free usage for a timeshare week valued at 1750? That is pretty high end. Also again you have undervalued the savings on resale. PS one of the timeshares I bought came with 1 yr of usage and I paid 1 dollar all in. My guess is that is much more than 50% off. In fact it is incalculable.

Also again I will ask. Why would you buy a timeshare retail that is impossible to sell resale because of developer limitations? I would rather rent from all those disgruntled owners who cannot get out.

Because timeshare wins the numbers relative to renting or investing, and as defined one cannot get that particular product on the resale market. Again, I'm not claiming that ALL timeshare deeds are best bought direct, only some.
 

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Name a developer brand which will "GUARANTEE" an NYC week any time you wanted? Not based on availability?

Please quote me making that claim, I don't recall having done so (as it's obviously untrue).
 

DannyTS

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I'm relatively new, I suppose, but not that new, but with my consulting background and Ivy League Economics degree, I've found that my knowledge of the product has quickly outstripped that of my colleagues. I have done a tremendous amount of research to support my assertions, which I present to my guests, as I don't like to make unsupported claims. When I say that my company will buy back their deed and invoke their ROFR at around 50% of the market value, I support it by showing a post from an owner in a Redweek forum who admits that he received a 50% offer from my company. When I say that Goldman Sachs studied the industry and concluded that they offer a net savings, I show the report. When I say that MY company will save them X dollars, I show them the NPV spreadsheet I created that proves it and send it to them via email so that they can examine every cell (and some OCD financial folks have done exactly that). When I tell people that my company doesn't have availability issues, I actually take them into the website and show them the availability for the dates they want to travel. So I'm quite comfortable engaging in dialectic even with sophisticated owners, as I don't make unsupported claims.


This is an Ebay link you can share with your prospects. You can explain them that in case they buy, they are going to lose 90-100% of the value the moment they live your office .
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Timeshares-for-Sale/15897/i.html?_fsrp=1&_sop=10

By the way, some prices are high even on ebay but they will never sell unless they get closer to the market value.

Anything silver and most gold contracts have zero or negative value in most timeshares, including the top brands. Even platinum does not fare much better with few exceptions: highly popular locations or in the points systems those that have the lowest maintenance fees per point. Those that rent above maintenance fees (consistently) are a rarity and in most cases people cannot get rid of them fast enough when they stop using them.
I believe that only 5% of the timeshares trade significantly above zero and even those are still a small fraction of the developer price.
 
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maxpot46

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So you are selling timeshare weeks, points, for $22,000 average ?
We own 6 timeshares and even the one we bought at Orange Lake was no where near that price.
All are resales and we are happy with the resorts we have. Been able to exchange thru RCI, II, TP, VRI,
DAE, and Tug Marketplace Direct Exchange.
We are downsizing our portfolio, and we never want to go to a Timeshare Presentation again.
We bought in, so we don’t need to be persuaded to buy more.
Good Luck with Sales!
Silentg

We do have packages that are superior to the industry average both in terms of price and maintenance. And also many which are more expensive. And even a couple which I deem to be inferior values and refuse to sell.

I'm not pitching here, I'm engaging in dialogue as a function of increasing my knowledge set.
 

maxpot46

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I haven't heard of anyone paying $20,000 and getting $8000+ in additional free usage. In Wyndham for example if you buy 149,000 points for say $22,000 you would be lucky to get $2500 in usage and temporary status. In order to be able get $5000-$8,000 in quantifiable benefits within the first 5 years beyond those if you bought resale, you would be looking at spending a minimum of $80,000.

There certainly are some tuggers who after careful analysis have purchased hybrid plans or limited developer purchases that allow them to bring in previous purchases but I don't know of anyone who just happens to get roped into a presentation who stumbles onto any offeres or negotiated deal that offers anything like 40% of the total amount paid let alone justifying the difference in the cost of resale vs retail.

You also talk about developers aggressively using ROFR to maintain the product value. The only developer who uses consistent aggressive ROFR is DVC. DVC has recently in the last 5 years started to erode the benefits passed along with resale. Instead of protecting the value of the resale it will probably lead to a decline in the value of resales which will probably lead to a lowering of the level of ROFR.

Interesting... I know very little about Wyndham and their processes. In my own experience, the best negotiator I sold to was able to command a FDI equal to 80% of the purchase price ($100k deed), a silly amount that actually cut my commission in half (but half a commission is better than none, of course). He was a sharp crypto startup guy, just savage at the negotiating table. Took more even when he found out it cut into my commission, lol. Respect. In any case, that was an outlier, but we are allowed by corporate to offer up to 60% of the purchase price as a FDI at no penalty. But most people are satisfied with half that, I'm afraid. I actually used to tell people to negotiate them up, but I got overheard and almost fired (again performance saved me). Now I just shake my head sadly, lol.
 
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DannyTS

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We do have packages that are superior to the industry average both in terms of price and maintenance. And also many which are more expensive. And even a couple which I deem to be inferior values and refuse to sell.

I'm not pitching here, I'm engaging in dialogue as a function of increasing my knowledge set.

I have a cure for a terrible disease. Sorry i cannot tell you the details but trust me, it is really effective. I cannot tell you the price or who the customers are. I cannot tell you anything. I wish i could.
 
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maxpot46

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This is an Ebay link you can share with your prospects. You can explain them that in case they buy, they are going to lose 90-100% of the value the moment they live your office .
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Timeshares-for-Sale/15897/i.html?_fsrp=1&_sop=10

By the way, some prices are high even on ebay but they will never sell unless they get closer to the market value.

Anything silver and most gold contracts have zero or negative value in most timeshares, including the top brands. Even platinum does not fare much better with few exceptions: highly popular locations or in the points systems those that have the lowest maintenance fees per point. Those that rent above maintenance fees (consistently) are a rarity and in most cases people cannot get rid of them fast enough when they stop using them.
I believe that only 5% of the timeshares trade significantly above zero and even those are still a small fraction of the developer price.

Those timeshares are pathetic. I sell Ferraris, not junk heaps. I can prove that MY COMPANY will buyback MY PRODUCT at an average of 50% of the market value, I demonstrate this proof in my presentation when I talk them through the spreadsheet once I get to the pricing phase at the end.
 

DannyTS

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Those timeshares are pathetic. I sell Ferraris, not junk heaps. I can prove that MY COMPANY will buyback MY PRODUCT at an average of 50% of the market value, I demonstrate this proof in my presentation when I talk them through the spreadsheet once I get to the pricing phase at the end.

so you had time to read all 763 listings? So Marriott, Westin, Sheraton, HGVC, DVC, Welk, Hyatt etc are pathetic? What are you selling?
Are you selling Elun Musk's villa as a timeshare?

But let your customers decide whether those are pathetic or not. Just share the link with them.
 
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