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Employees of Ring (Amazon) are watching you

x3 skier

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pedro47

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That is a very important article to read and share IMHO.
 

artringwald

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I have a Ring video doorbell. I really don't want Ring employees watching the squirrels running around my front yard. It's an invasion of the squirrels privacy.
 

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My only Ring cameras are outside so privacy is not much of a concern.

The article states that Ring says the only videos viewed are those shared through the Neighbor part of the app. If a customer has a privacy concern then they wouldn't be sharing those videos in the first place.
 

dougp26364

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I always LOVE the news media scary articles. It's as if they've never read George Orwell's 1984. Even your Roomba wifi model sends information (maps) or your floorplan back to corporate spy central. Any appliance you have the connects to wifi has the "potential" to invade your privacy. If you want privacy, you can't rely on our lawmakers or laws. Laws are broken every day by a lot more than big corporations. Laws can only punish or dissuade people from doing wrong. They won't stop it (see the "no call list" and telemarketer situation).
If you really want privacy in todays modern world, you'll need to get completely off the grid and likely will need to live underground (satellites and applications like Google Earth have amazing cameras). It's best to keep in mind someone ALWAYS has the potential to monitor you by watching what you do or hearing what you say.
 

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I always LOVE the news media scary articles. It's as if they've never read George Orwell's 1984. Even your Roomba wifi model sends information (maps) or your floorplan back to corporate spy central. Any appliance you have the connects to wifi has the "potential" to invade your privacy. If you want privacy, you can't rely on our lawmakers or laws. Laws are broken every day by a lot more than big corporations. Laws can only punish or dissuade people from doing wrong. They won't stop it (see the "no call list" and telemarketer situation).
If you really want privacy in todays modern world, you'll need to get completely off the grid and likely will need to live underground (satellites and applications like Google Earth have amazing cameras). It's best to keep in mind someone ALWAYS has the potential to monitor you by watching what you do or hearing what you say.


I wouldn't disagree with anything you wrote here. Just one caveat, and it's a very basic one: Human nature dictates we always take the path of least resistance. Thus, it's one matter to be photographed and on video every day of your life simply by going to the gas station, store or walking down the street. It's another matter to actively choose to purchase and install surveillance devices and scatter them within your own home. Personally, I'll pass on actively choosing to make things easier to have my privacy invaded. Btw, I, for one, have indeed read Orwell's 1984, but I sense there are few here that have. I could be wrong - call it a gut feeling.

I also believe that devices that are doing thinking for us are subsequently dumbing down the general population. Why bother to think when one can simply ask the device on the table?
 

dougp26364

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I wouldn't disagree with anything you wrote here. Just one caveat, and it's a very basic one: Human nature dictates we always take the path of least resistance. Thus, it's one matter to be photographed and on video every day of your life simply by going to the gas station, store or walking down the street. It's another matter to actively choose to purchase and install surveillance devices and scatter them within your own home. Personally, I'll pass on actively choosing to make things easier to have my privacy invaded. Btw, I, for one, have indeed read Orwell's 1984, but I sense there are few here that have. I could be wrong - call it a gut feeling.

I also believe that devices that are doing thinking for us are subsequently dumbing down the general population. Why bother to think when one can simply ask the device on the table?

Well, by posting on this forum you've demonstrated that you're using one of the most powerful spy tools a person can buy. My personal computer doesn't have a camera in it but, my "smart" phone and my iPad both have them, so I can be watched. When you're online, every single key stroke can be traced/followed. It's unavoidable. You may limit it but, you won't avoid it. The cartoon above does a marvelous job of highlighting the issue. Most appliances, whether you know it or not, can track usage and send that information. I suppose it's more difficult if using a dial up service vs wifi but, how many still use old dial up services (watch "You've Got Mail" for a chuckle). ANYTHING that's can connect to wifi can be used to "spy" on you. Any device that can take a picture can "see" you. All of these devices can be used to spy on you. TV's connected to cable, wifi or Vois send information. Even your car is sending information about you when you're in it. If you think about it, we're so close to George Orwell's fictional world it's scary.
 

Ken555

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I always LOVE the news media scary articles.

Yup, and yet... the details about their ability to not only view customers video but access to a database which connects each video to a particular user should concern everyone.

Many of my neighbors have these cameras, and it’s actually been discussed at HOA meetings since some people are concerned about their privacy. For those who want just video surveillance (which FYI, tends to be the majority...it seems most of those I know who have these don’t use their other features), it’s better to stream to your own server such as a Synology NAS..easy to implement and no long term costs.


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Our Rings are all on the perimeter of our home so there is not much to see except our coming and goings (boring). We monitor when the pet sitter visits, and when packages are delivered so it is a valuable tool for travelers.

It is also a valuable tool to know that your teen is not having a party while you are out. I guess those days when they could get away with it are gone...

With that said they should fix the security gaps so hackers cannot gain access.

Alexa may be a bigger issue...with both owned by Amazon...lots of dots that could be connected. I used to worry about Facebook and Google. Not that there is anything to hide - just creepy.
 
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Ken555

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Our Rings are all on the perimeter of our home so there is not much to see except our coming and goings (boring).

I have a condo, which is great (for me), yet now a few of my neighbors have a Ring including one across the hall. Their Ring will see *every* person who enters or leaves my home. They did not ask my permission. In general, I’m okay with it since it could increase security and be a source if a problem develops (though I have an alarm) but still...it clicks and lights up every time I return home, and that’s a bit disturbing.

And now I know some programmer in the Ukraine may have been watching my guests and myself enter and leave my home...even though I’m not their customer. Joy.



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pedro47

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Sounds like a device that our government, our border patrol police or our local police department should be using to watch the bad guys .LOL :p
 

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When you are in a public space, you have no expectation of privacy.

Same thing with license plate scanners. It wasn't until big data that agencies were able to take that huge amount of information and track individuals.
 

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When you are in a public space, you have no expectation of privacy.

Same thing with license plate scanners. It wasn't until big data that agencies were able to take that huge amount of information and track individuals.

Seems like an awfully outdated means to track anyone considering the cell phone in their pocket is providing continuous delivery of a persons location.
 

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Seems like an awfully outdated means to track anyone considering the cell phone in their pocket is providing continuous delivery of a persons location.
That would require a warrant. This is a method of placing a suspect in the area of a crime and then provide a reasonable suspicion to obtain a warrant.

I DO have a reasonable expectation of privacy between me and my provider as PII.
 

Phydeaux

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That would require a warrant. This is a method of placing a suspect in the area of a crime and then provide a reasonable suspicion to obtain a warrant.

I DO have a reasonable expectation of privacy between me and my provider as PII.

I wasn't aware this discussion pertained strictly to catching bad guys. I was looking at the much broader picture of everyone, and the tracking of their location. Nearly every app is tracking people.
 
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DrQ

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I wasn't aware this discussion pertained strictly to catching bad guys. I was looking at the much broader picture of everyone, and the tracking of their location. Nearly every app is tracking people.
Sounds like a device that our government, our border patrol police or our local police department should be using to watch the bad guys .LOL :p
In the case of apps, the user has LOADED the app and CONSENTED to the terms. Again, if I have done so, the owner of the app can only share the information within the confines of the terms of the agreement.

The owner of RING appliances have consented to these terms. Any perimeter devices are controlling PUBLIC spaces where, as I pointed out, there is no expectation of privacy.

In two party consent states:
  • California
  • Connecticut
  • Florida
  • Illinois
  • Maryland
  • Massachusetts
  • Michigan
  • Montana
  • Nevada
  • New Hampshire
  • Pennsylvania
  • Washington (not D.C.)
Do Ring Doorbells Violate Wiretapping Laws? (PC 632)
Wiretapping laws under California Penal Code Section 632 require that you receive consent from a person to record his or her voice. The law also states that it is illegal to record a “confidential communication,” which is any communication meant to be heard only by the parties involved.

If you are using a Ring doorbell camera, the simplest way to avoid facing wiretapping charges under PC 632 is to turn off audio recording. If you don’t want to do that, it may be a good idea to notify friends, family and mail carriers that their voice may be recorded when they are near your front door.

Though it is illegal under California wiretapping laws to record another person without his or her knowledge and consent, most people use doorbell cameras for security purposes. Unless you are deliberately using a recording for exploitive or commercial purposes, you face little risk of facing charges for violating wiretapping laws through your everyday use of a doorbell camera.
 

x3 skier

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Most comments are about views from the doorbell camera. They also make indoor cameras so I wonder if you have one in your bedroom or other rooms, what these Bozos were able to see:rolleyes:

From the article.

‘This team, another source tells The Intercept, watched footage from both outdoor and indoor cameras, showed other employees footage, and annotated actions like “kissing, firing guns, and stealing.”’

Cheers
 
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PigsDad

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I find it hard to feel sorry for anyone who may have gotten hacked and placed a home security camera in their bedroom. :doh:

Kurt
 
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