I don't believe your numbers for the Honua Kai are accurate nor does your analysis include everything that is covered in the WKORV HOAs.
I included a link to a real estate agent's website, where she indicates that the 2 bdrm HOA fees are $1858 to $2425 per month. Not sure why you think that that isn't accurate. Anyway, below is a listing for a 1240 sq. foot 2 bdrm/2 bath for sale at Honua Kai right now. (WKORV-N villas are 1230 sq. feet , so as true an apples to apples comparison as I could find.) The MFs for this unit are listed as $2133.
https://search.emauirealestate.com/maui/5-376389/130-KAI-MALINA-PKWY-606-Lahaina
WahooWah said:
First, your utilities assumption is grossly undervalued. Energy for AC, two W/D units combined with cable and internet wifi brings the utilities amount to well over $1,000/month in Maui.
Most of the utilities are covered with the MFs. "...(Honua Kai Maintenance) fee covers the costs for water, rubbish removal, sewer, landscaping, basic cable TV service, maintenance and electricity of all common elements, pest control, security, pool, capital reserves, payroll for the management/admin of the association, and insurance for the property...
Individual owners are responsible for electricity charges, phone/internet services, property taxes, and insurance."
https://www.hawaiirealestatesearch.com/blog/honua-kai-hoa-fees.html
So let's expand utility line to $1000 and it should more than cover phone/internet, homeowner's insurance, and electric:
- Phone/Internet: Hawaii Telecom's best internet plan is $99.95/month and basic phone is $30/month. https://broadbandnow.com/Hawaiian-Telcom
- Homeowner's Insurance: Homeowner's insurance in Hawaii is actually pretty low, the average homeowner paying ~$1000 a year so that's $84/month. (Loren Clive, a residential real estate broker indicates in her 2nd posting linked below that she pays $469/year for her 1 bdrm/1 bath rental condo, so $1000 in right in line with that.
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forum...rt-term-rental-occupancy-rates-electric-bills
https://www.reviews.com/homeowners-insurance/hawaii/
- Electric: That leaves $785/month for electric, which seems reasonable as Loren Clive reported in her first post above that her monthly electric bills for a 1 bdrm/1 bath unit with 1 room a/c was $200-300/mo.
https://www.aimforawesome.com/hawaii/moving-to-hawaii/hawaiis-high-cost-of-living/
WahooWah said:
Property taxes for a 2BR at Honua Kai are more than $1,400/month.
Nope. I actually included a link to the Maui County property tax website, where I linked to an
actual 2 bdrm 1230 sq foot condo at Honua Kai. The half year taxes on this property are $6052.88x2 = $12,105.76. That is $1008.81 per month.
http://qpublic9.qpublic.net/hi_maui_display.php?KEY=440140060580
WahooWah said:
$1,000/month implies $60,000 per unit over five years for the full refurnishing, breakage, replacement of linens/towels, carpeting, curtains etc. and the labor involved. Again, grossly understated.
Please expand on this. Here's what I can come up with for a budget for a 5-year cycle. And keep in mind that these are retail prices. WKORV should receive significant volume discounts on just about everything I've listed, including mattresses, furniture, appliances, carpet, tile, curtains, and linens.
600 sq feet of carpet: $5000 - replaced every 5 years $5000
600 sq feet of tile: replaced every 10 years - $13,500 every 10 years or $6750
Painting: Materials and labor: $7300 - every 2.5 years - $14600
Mattress: $3000 x 2 beds - replaced every 5 years = $6000
Couch: $3500 couch and $2000 love seat replaced every 7 years = $5500
Dining table: $2000 replaced every 5 years - $2000
TVs: 42 inch: $600 x 2 - replaced every 5 years - $1200
Sheets, Pillows, comforters = $500 x 2 bdrms replaced every year = $5000
Towels: $200 x 2 bedrooms replaced every year = $400
Curtains: $1000 x 3 exterior windows replaced every 5 years = $3000
Fridge $1000: replaced every 10 years = $500
Fridge (compact): $520 - replaced every 5 years = $520
Stove: $650 - replaced every 10 years = $325
2 burner cooktop: $585 - replaced every 10 years = $292
Dishwasher: $850 - replaced every 5 years = $850
Compact dishwasher: $820 - replaced every 5 years = $820
Microwave $650 - replaced every 5 years = $650 x 2 = $1300
Washer/Dryer combo - $1500 - replaced every 10 years = $750 x 2 = $1500
Misc kitchen ware, irons, blow dryers: $300 - replaced every year = $1500
New granite: $7500 - replaced every 15 years = $2500
Lanai furniture: $500 - replaced every 5 years x 2 = $1000
Grand total.................$60,557
Am I missing anything major here?
Carpet cost:
https://www.manta.com/cost-carpet-replacement-kihei-hi
Tile cost:
https://www.manta.com/cost-tile-installation-kahului-hi
Painting cost:
https://www.manta.com/cost-house-painting-kahului-hi
Furniture was replaced based on this guide:
https://www.factotum.co.uk/2017/07/04/furniture-life-span/
Appliance replacement was assisted using this guide:
https://www.mrappliance.com/expert-tips/appliance-life-guide/
Appliance costs are based on a middle of the road stainless steel model at Costco plus 30% Hawaii mark-up because I couldn't get my location to switch to Maui.
WahooWah said:
You also leave out front desk operations and housekeeping, which are major expenses. Do you now what the property management costs of outsourcing this for the Honua Kai run?
Front desk operations and security are covered in the $2133/month MFs. Housekeeping is a fair point. I'd add in $800/month for that. And, once again, keep in mind that I wouldn't enjoy the benefit of owning 600 units, which would bring the housekeeping cost down significantly.
WahooWah said:
Your $10,000 a month is assuming four Club dues payments of about $150 each. A more accurate figure for comparison would be $9,200 per month.
It really doesn't matter what you call it because an owner is still on the hook for paying it. We're discussing the REAL cost of ownership vs. what y'all are paying for ownership. But if you insist, I'll revise it to $9200.
Here are my revised figures:
$2133 MFs
$1008 property taxes
$1000 utilities & homeowner's insurance
$1000 Capital Improvements
$800 Housekeeping
-------
$5941 WITHOUT any volume discounts
v. $9200, which is what WKORV is charging you.
You are getting a lot more services and utility with StarOptions, I.I. membership etc. with the Westin than you are with Honua Kai.
What services are you talking about? Spa? Well, I can walk to the one at the Westin! There is an on-site restaurant, Duke's. II membership can be bought for $100/year.
P.S. I've probably have spent more time composing these posts than your friends have spent running the HOA.