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40 Year Florida Timeshare Expires in 3 Years - Then What?

Egret1986

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I have some experience with Lemonjuice biz. They advertise on the timeshares wanted section of TUG or at least have in the past for prime Ocean City MD weeks and pay decently for them.

Similar experience...paid my asking prices for a couple of Ocean City weeks and last year for an Outer Banks, NC week. I had some conversation with the principle regarding his business and he was interested in my thoughts on Barrier Island Station in Duck, NC. It is a resort that is also undertaking the task of gathering the required votes for an upcoming sunset clause. He asked if I was interested in some part-time work with his company. Too many obligations already to consider doing anything else.

I didn't realize that they advertised on TUG.
 

bbakernbay

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Just heard from our timeshare that they have made an arrangement with a nearby timeshare resort to give any of our Owners who wish to depart a 2 bedroom unit at their resort in order to increase their percentage of paying Owners.

This requires a payment of $395 to look after the deeds. Advised that MFees at other timeshare are lower than we are paying in 2018.

This offer is entirely optional.

Looks like the writing is on the wall but still not clear as to what happens over next 3 years and thereafter.
 

cerralee

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I have some experience with Lemonjuice biz. They advertise on the timeshares wanted section of TUG or at least have in the past for prime Ocean City MD weeks and pay decently for them.

My guess is the resort they took over had owners clamoring to get out. It doesn't look bad but I imagine even high season owners would have had difficulty renting out their unit to cover their MF's and off season weeks could probably be had for less than half of MF's through RCI's last calls and other similar resorts in the area probably go for half the MF's during off season so if any owners still wanted to enjoy the area they could with no commitment and half the cost paid only when they wanted to stay.

I don't think it would work in a TS with more than 30-40 units and ideally less. Digging up the deeded owners for non productive weeks would be a killer.

I owned at the Ocean City resort that you are referring to. RCI dropped this resort several years ago and there were no more last calls in this particular resort. You could still trade in to other OC resorts. I noticed that when units went up for sale that the same person was buying them. In the end lemonjuice or Kravosky held a lot of the units that were disposed of. I thought about it and came to the conclusion that someone out there had a plan. If he was investing in the resort there must be some underlying value in the units and I was going to hold tight and go along for the ride.
We were offered the option to deed our units back to the HOA for a fee. Many did. In the end the units went on the auction block and the proceeds were divided up between the remaining owners. I feel the process was fair. I no longer had the timeshare fees hanging over my head, and if I wanted to vacation in OC I had enough cash to do so. My only regret was not having a crystal ball to buy a few more of the units before the liquidation. I did have a chance as they had a public auction at the resort during one of my stays where they "auctioned" off three of the units. The HOA placed a low bid on them and there were only 3 people in attendance. Kravosky, the manager of the units and me.
I was glad that lemonjuice entered the picture. He knew how to dispose of a decaying timeshare complex where previous boards could not come up with a solution of an aging membership and non-paying owners. Yes, I am sure he came out on the cash plus positive side of things-but so did the owners that that did not bail.
 

tschwa2

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He wasn't just buying at Waves. His ad was for all OC resorts except Coconut Mallory. He bought Ocean Time, Boardwalk One, and Bay Club from me.
 

theo

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Just heard from our timeshare that they have made an arrangement with a nearby timeshare resort to give any of our Owners who wish to depart a 2 bedroom unit at their resort in order to increase their percentage of paying Owners.

This requires a payment of $395 to look after the deeds. Advised that MFees at other timeshare are lower than we are paying in 2018.

This offer is entirely optional.

Looks like the writing is on the wall but still not clear as to what happens over next 3 years and thereafter.

...identity of the “deedback” grantee(s) at your resort is also still not clear, the answer to which relates very directly to the voting percentages and numbers required for (and addressing the future fate of) your resort. :shrug:
 
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theo

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I can only presume that it is the timeshare HOA but I have no way of knowing positively.

With all due respect, I personally would presume nothing in the very strange circumstances apparently at issue here, with a "one man band" manager / Board / President / deedback processor apparently operating single handedly on site --- and all other previous Board members having disappeared into thin air.

In post #48 of this thread, I pointed out that deeds are a matter of public record. Accordingly, recent deedbacks should be easily found online in County official records *if* the HOA is, in fact, the grantee. I suggested (and I respectfully do so once again) that you pointedly ask the manager / President exactly who is named as grantee(s) on all of those incoming deedbacks, if you cannot find the deeds online. If the resort Association is indeed the "grantee", that's fine and dandy and appropriate. However, if the grantee is something or someone else, it is possible that someone is quietly assembling a powerful voting block in order to influence or determine future outcomes there.
Just sayin'... :shrug:
 
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bbakernbay

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Excellent advice, thank you.

I just accessed the excellent County website and searched very quickly and found that over the past 90 days there were 51 deeds transferred to our Condominium Association by way of QuitClaims at a value $10.

I feel reassured by this initial finding and I will look at successive periods of time throughout 2017.
 

Talent312

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The $10 number is a mere formality used in deeds... a placeholder.
The actual $$ amount depends on the doc stamp tax paid which is often noted in margins.

With Global Warming and rising oceans, it might be a short term investment that goes underwater.

At the risk of starting something, I'll just say that I'm in favor of global warming.
My house is in the middle of Florida, and I'd like to be closer to the water. :thumbup:
<satire>
 

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Our timeshare in the Orlando - Kissimmee Florida Area now has 3 years left on its 40 year life.

Unfortunately the financial situation of the timeshare has deteriorated with the maintenance fees jumping significantly due to 50% of the owners not paying their Maintenance Fees.

The new management group is proposing to convert about 40% of the Units into long term residential rental units in order to create some additional income.

The Manager advises that in 3 years, when the 40 year term expires, then every owner will become a “Tenant-in Common” and the timeshare could continue on.

Financially, I don’t know whether we can survive 3 years as the big MF increase will likely accelerate the Owners abandoning ship.

I own 4 weeks and we use all 4 weeks there every year.

The Manager has indicated that existing Owners can relinquish ownership now or in the future by paying a $350 transfer fee.

The timeshare can’t possibly get sufficient Proxies to even hold an AGM, let alone make a decision to sell the entire complex, at least until the 40 years have expired.

Question 1, if we hang on until the end of 40 years and it is agreed to sell off the entire complex, then who gets to share in the proceeds. At the present time there is no bank loans or liens.

I estimate each unit would have a $100,000 vale as a rental property, therefore in theory the maximum payout to each owner would be $2,000 per week owned.

By year 40 there could only be 25% of the Owners in good standing, does that mean they get to share in the total proceeds based upon their proportion of weeks owned in good standing.

Hopefully, fellow Tuggers will chime in with their experiences or opinions. Apparently there are many Florida timeshares approaching Sunset.


You should be so luck to just pay $350 to get out. Our timeshare owner, in Canada, wanted to reduce the timeshare resort and sell off some buildings as individual condos. We got an invoice for $4000 per week to renovate the unit or $4000 to cancel our contract. They proved they were not in the timeshare business but in the cancelling of contracts business.
 

bbakernbay

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Then what happened? Did the Owners presumably walk away and they then foreclosed and then the developer terminated the timeshare? Which area was that in Canada, BC or Ontario?
 

silentg

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If you have a RTU on 40 year lease, why do you have to pay anything? Can’t you just wait the 3 years til the contract is up then just walk away? We did that with one of our timeshares. When the lease was up we said goodbye.We had our use and enjoyed it while it lasted. Just a thought?
Silentg
 

bbakernbay

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We are pretty much decided that we will not pay the substantially increased MFs on our weeks for 2018 nor the few years remaining. We have been loyal owners for over 25 years and enjoy the resort but we can take advantage of cheaper prices using Extra Vacations or using our points inside 45 days as the resort is never full during the times we choose to go to Florida.

In addition, I am reluctant to pay the MFees in advance and possibly show up and the place may be padlocked. Charging a long term renter at 50% rate of our MFee is also very aggravating.

We won’t be paying the $300 fee to sign it back either. I would be interested to know how many owners default now given that it was near 50% before the MFees increased substantially in 2018 to cover high delinquency.

Sad situation for all concerned including the long term resort employees but one likely repeating itself in many other locations.
 

WackyLucy

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If you have a RTU on 40 year lease, why do you have to pay anything? Can’t you just wait the 3 years til the contract is up then just walk away?

OP's matter is clearly not a RTU contract. It is instead a deeded ownership at a place which, like many Florida timeshare properties built in the 1980's, had a 40 year time period identified within its' governing condo documents for existence as a timeshare property. This is not at all the same as a RTU contract situation.

Personally, I would have chosen to pay the $300 for a clean and easy deedback rather than be foreclosed upon later, but OP has apparently made a different decision.
 
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silentg

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I have one of those too. A Cape Cod week. They are voting to extend the timeshares. Have to see what everyone wants to do. Nice place. I sent my proxy already.
Silentg
 

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This is what happened in Apple Valley (Ohio) -see quote below. I'm not sure the fee was $199 - I think it was under $50 for the recording of the deed (which they prepared). Yes - I think 'someone' is going to do well when the resort actually gets sold as a 'property' (not a timeshare property). I considered 'holding on' - but for what? Just keep paying m/fs without benefit for a number of years until it all gets sorted out? And 'paranoid me' feels that those orchestrating this whole thing will find a way to squeeze me out anyway. Life is too short for me to 'hope' that it would work out for ME and mine.

I was going to give it away anyway. Had already given several/many away (using craigslist). Had another 2/2 in New Smyrna (Daytona) that I had tried to give away on craigslist. Prepared the deed. 'Buyer' (but no money) got spooked and accused me of trying to scam her because a friend of hers did a search of the Florida records and saw that I had transferred a lot of timeshares. I asked her how I was scamming her if I didn't ask her for any money (I was going to pay the transfer fee even)? I wasn't going to force her to take it so I kept it. Fast forward two years - I decided to list the timeshare on the resort's website for $2K and got a call about a month later. Full price offer - they'll prepare the deed. Some company. Sounded fishy to me but they didn't ask me for any money so I said, 'sure'. I thought that was the end of it. Two weeks later I got a check and a deed. Cashed the check. Waited two weeks for it to clear (it was on a US bank). No problem. Signed the deed and sent it.

Found out the company was trying to buy the whole place somehow to convert it. I was one of only a few owners trying to sell (most ads were for renting). At no time did another owner offer to buy it from me. I had mentioned in previous years to management that I would give it to them. I had offered it to other owners for 'really cheap' (or free). Nothing came of that.

There is actually a company out there that is doing this sort of thing with smaller, older resorts. Trying to allow remaining owners to cash out so it can be repurposed. Will someone make money? Yep. Let's use my unit as an example. Keep it for another 4 years while they acquire other units in order to get voting majority. 4 years of mfs would be about $3500 (assuming only small increases each year). I'd need to recoup $5500 from a sale to get where I am now (with $2K now and no mfs for 4 years). To get that the unit would have to sell for $275K after expenses (I used 50 weeks as a multiplier). I think I'm better off doing what I did.

Regarding OP situation - I would pay the money (maybe negotiate a lower fee per unit??) and be done. But that's me. Timeshares served me very well in the past. Our kids are grown now and we're not as travel-active as we once were. Trying to simplify.

Good luck with whatever you do.

I owned a timeshare that closed without warning. I was lucky. They offered for me to wait and see if they sell with no maintenance fees for the current year or deedback with a small fee. I think it was $199. I gave it back, don’t want the headache, if it doesn’t sell I can still be responsible for mf, do not care how much I “might” get. It’s a year since I gave it back, they still have no deal to sell.

When I said “without use” I was thinking based on the financial condition it has a good chance of closing prior to the sunset happening.
 

bbakernbay

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Teresa

Thank you for your thorough and thoughtful reply. I have exactly the same feelings as you have experienced that some individual or group will capitalize on the situation and end up with everything for a flip to residential rental property. Paying MFees over the next 3-4 years of uncertainty seems fruitless in order to reap some payback after all ‘costs’ are paid.

Last week, I have asked the Property Manager for a deal on the Deed Back costs or use of a vacant week in lieu and I am still awaiting a reply.

I live in Canada so I don’t know whether foreclosure has much of a credit or legal implication.

If they already have 50% delinquency then it would appear they are not going after non-paying owners.
 

bbakernbay

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We received another letter from our Resort advising that due to diminishing revenues they are now converting another block of timeshares into long term rentals.

This block of 4 Units is the one where our 4 weeks are deeded and in our opinion is the preferred block as it overlooks a large lake, the only such block that has this scenic view.

They have indicated that owners of these units will be relocated to the remaining blocks of units that have not yet been converted to long term rentals.

I am not a lawyer but I think that this would invalidate our contract as we are unable to use the units we own.

Anyone care to offer an opinion on this circumstance.
 

bluehende

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We received another letter from our Resort advising that due to diminishing revenues they are now converting another block of timeshares into long term rentals.

This block of 4 Units is the one where our 4 weeks are deeded and in our opinion is the preferred block as it overlooks a large lake, the only such block that has this scenic view.

They have indicated that owners of these units will be relocated to the remaining blocks of units that have not yet been converted to long term rentals.

I am not a lawyer but I think that this would invalidate our contract as we are unable to use the units we own.

Anyone care to offer an opinion on this circumstance.

I also am not a lawyer but....... I would send them a very official letter stating you do not agree with the move, but would be happy to sell them the units.
 

theo

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We received another letter from our Resort advising that due to diminishing revenues they are now converting another block of timeshares into long term rentals.

This block of 4 Units is the one where our 4 weeks are deeded and in our opinion is the preferred block as it overlooks a large lake, the only such block that has this scenic view.

They have indicated that owners of these units will be relocated to the remaining blocks of units that have not yet been converted to long term rentals.

I am not a lawyer but I think that this would invalidate our contract as we are unable to use the units we own.

Anyone care to offer an opinion on this circumstance.

Everything you have described to date about that entire operation frankly seems quite shaky to me. That said, *if*you have a recorded deed for specific fixed units / weeks, I fail to see how the resort could unilaterally (or lawfully) ignore officially recorded legal instruments identifying your ownership of some very specific pieces of real estate.

I assume that you don't want to incur any legal costs to fight (or exit) this smelly mess. I'd suggest sending correspondence making it clear that you do not believe they have any legal right to "switch" you into a different building / unit ownership other than that which is plainly reflected on your recorded deeds. Also make it clear that you have no intentions of accepting involuntary ownership of any arbitrarily assigned "alternative" units or weeks. Bear in mind that grantee acceptance is a fundamental legal requirement for any deed to have validity; you definitely have some leverage here.

Tell them (in writing) that they can willingly absorb any any all costs for preparing and processing and recording quit claim deed of your existing weeks back to the resort HOA, but that you have no interest in accepting any other units / weeks. You want "out" --- not "different units". You are in the driver's seat here, not them. You reportedly possess valid deeds that they apparently now want, but it also seems evident that there is no intent (or money) to actually buy your weeks. Negotiate a no cost exit and just get out of that mess.

You asked for opinions. That's mine, for whatever it may be worth. Good luck.
 
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bbakernbay

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Well, the saga continues.

We chose not to pay our 4 weeks of 2018 MF’s and did not pay any fees to deed the units back. We never received any further invoices or communications from the HOA.

Although the RCI recent reviews from exchangers have been mostly very negative we decided to look into staying there again in November for 2 weeks as there was a tremendous RCI sale about 2 months ago and the rental rate was about 25% of the cost of a week’s MF so not much risk in our mind but we were still somewhat concerned about what we would find.

We arrived yesterday and were given a unit that is quite acceptable, the grounds and pool are equal or better than previous.

It appears that more unit blocks are being rented out, apparently on a one year minimum, either furnished or unfurnished. There are only 3 blocks out of 9 left for timeshare owners or exchangers or short term rentals.

The “residential” units look no different than the other units as the rules look to be strictly enforced. Some of our fears appear not to have materialized but time will tell. I haven’t talked to the Manager about their financial status but it certainly looks like their plan of generating a solid income flow appears to be successful.

Someone mentioned that MFees are scheduled to go up substantially next year so I can certainly foresee the remaining owners bailing out before sunset clause kicks in. I foresee someone buying the property as a solid investment with a significant monthly cash flow.

We likely will return in 2019 if we can get a killer RCI deal again.
 

bbakernbay

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Didn’t get the ‘Killer Deal’ that we had last year through RCI but we are back again in April 2019 for 2 weeks paying $89 per night plus taxes. Another 6 room block has been converted to long term rentals. There is now only one block of 4 units left for timeshare owners/exchangers or short term rentals like we are doing this time. I haven’t heard what the 2019 Maintenance Fees are but I can’t imagine anyone is paying their MFees now. Someone is going to bid on this complex of 68 units and and get a real bargain with a great cash flow and minimal risk.
 

amycurl

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This is a fascinating saga to read, bbakernbay, and I want to thank you for keeping it updated as you continue to monitor the situation and visit the resort. Seems like everything worked out okay in the end.
 

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A number of years ago I owned a Week at (I think the name was) Emerald Seas in Deerfield Beach, FL which had a sunset clause. It was right on the beach and very likely the underlying land was worth millions. Although those managing the property told me that the plan was to sell and distribute the proceeds to Owners when it sunset I sold my Week anyway. Three reasons (1) there was no certainty that would be the outcome; (2) I would have had to pay MFs for years to find out; and (3) who knew if some zoning issue might depreciate the value of the underlying land...

George
 
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