[ 2017 ] New Westin Flex

[DavidnRobin]

There is a 2Bd WKV (low season) sitting on RedWeek for $900. If WKV is going into Flex (and no ROFR), wouldn't this be quickly snapped up by VSE? Or are they waiting until $0?

 

[okwiater]

There is a 2Bd WKV (low season) sitting on RedWeek for $900. If WKV is going into Flex (and no ROFR), wouldn't this be quickly snapped up by VSE? Or are they waiting until $0?

Are there any confirmed instances of VSE purchasing weeks on the open market? I've only heard of ROFR and "upgrade" transactions.

 

[cdirik]

Newbie here, so sorry about this question.
What is ROFR in this context?

 

[nuwermj]

Newbie here, so sorry about this question.
What is ROFR in this context?

ROFR = "In its simplest term, ROFR is the concept of a resort matching a resale offer of a timeshare themselves instead of letting the interval get sold to another owner for an extremely low price."
http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/what_does_ROFR_mean_for_timeshares.html

If I make an offer to buy the WKV Redweek listing and the owner accepts the offer, and if the deed contains a ROFR clause, then Vistana has the right to replace me as the buyer. They pay the same I am offering. If Vistana refuses to buy the deed, then I get it.

In this context, Vistana needs inventory for their new Flex system. Exercising a ROFR on all or many resale market deals is one way they can obtain that inventory, and then deposit it into the Flex trust fund. After deposited into the trust, Vistana has FlexOptions it can sell.

 

[VacationForever]

ROFR = "In its simplest term, ROFR is the concept of a resort matching a resale offer of a timeshare themselves instead of letting the interval get sold to another owner for an extremely low price."
http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/what_does_ROFR_mean_for_timeshares.html

If I make an offer to buy the WKV Redweek listing and the owner accepts the offer, and if the deed contains a ROFR clause, then Vistana has the right to replace me as the buyer. They pay the same I am offering. If Vistana refuses to buy the deed, then I get it.

In this context, Vistana needs inventory for their new Flex system. Exercising a ROFR on all or many resale market deals is one way they can obtain that inventory, and then deposit it into the Flex trust fund. After deposited into the trust, Vistana has FlexOptions it can sell.

...and most of Vistana resorts do not have ROFR.

 

[dioxide45]

There is a 2Bd WKV (low season) sitting on RedWeek for $900. If WKV is going into Flex (and no ROFR), wouldn't this be quickly snapped up by VSE? Or are they waiting until $0?

Are there any confirmed instances of VSE purchasing weeks on the open market? I've only heard of ROFR and "upgrade" transactions.

I agree with okwiater here. I don't think Vistana goes out on the open market to purchase resale weeks. They rely on buybacks (from the HOA from foreclosure) and ROFR where applicable. I am not aware of any developer that actively goes out to buy on the secondary market other than offering buybacks to existing owners. They don't really like the middle man involved.

 

[Mulege]

Which Vistana resorts have ROFR?

 

[Mulege]

I just got back from Laguna Mar and went to an owner update. Here was their Adventuras offer.

Take back my EOY 2BR Gold season
Enroll my 2BR Ocean Front Good Season resale I purchased into the program
Add this offer with my current 3 Star Elite to make me 5 Star Elite
$19,500 price.

I only go to Cancun and rent out my WORV and exchange WMH for renting. Not interseted in going to the other resorts. Been there and done them. 5 Star has no benefit to me. No pressure from the closer. Walked out in 90 minutes and got my $125 resort credit.

 

[VacationForever]

Exchange WMH for renting.

??? You are not allowed to rent an exchange, whether it is through II or using Star Options to book.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Directly from the VSE/VSN Reservation Confirmations:
"Rental of units reserved using StarOptions (other than a vacation period at your Home Resort) is prohibited. Violation may result in the suspension of an Owner’s right to reserve within Vistana™ Signature Network until compliant."

 

[Mulege]

Directly from the VSE/VSN Reservation Confirmations:
"Rental of units reserved using StarOptions (other than a vacation period at your Home Resort) is prohibited. Violation may result in the suspension of an Owner’s right to reserve within Vistana™ Signature Network until compliant."

You are correct. I own MH so I should have been clearer. No options used, Home Resort.
Thanks.

 

[controller1]

I just got back from Laguna Mar and went to an owner update. Here was their Adventuras offer.

Take back my EOY 2BR Gold season
Enroll my 2BR Ocean Front Good Season resale I purchased into the program
Add this offer with my current 3 Star Elite to make me 5 Star Elite
$19,500 price.

I only go to Cancun and rent out my WORV and exchange WMH for renting. Not interseted in going to the other resorts. Been there and done them. 5 Star has no benefit to me. No pressure from the closer. Walked out in 90 minutes and got my $125 resort credit.

I'm not sure the math works out for this.

If you are currently 3-Star Elite, the maximum number of StarOptions you have is 358,999 while the minimum number of StarOptions required for 5-Star Elite is 649,000. How does the above transaction qualify for at least an additional 290,001 StarOptions?

 

[DavidnRobin]

Agree - especially giving back SOs (which had to go to 3*) - Adventuras ain’t that cheap... $19,500 for 300K+ SOs? From VSE?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mulege]

Agree - especially giving back SOs (which had to go to 3*) - Adventuras ain’t that cheap... $19,500 for 300K+ SOs? From VSE?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Math aside making me 5 star was part of th

 

[Mulege]

Math aside making me 5 star was part of th

Their offer. They were taking my 2br ocean front resale which had no SO and bringing it Into the Adventuras system now giving me additional SO. Just as if I had bought it from Starwood. If the math isn’t there they were using 5 star as an incentive to close I guess as they said I was close based on my ownership. Since I don’t care about Elite status I didn’t do the math. I just wanted to get out and collect my $125. If they fudge it is their company. I’m just trying to tell you all my experience.

 

[iqmavin]

I'm not surprised - since they made Nanea a Flex resort, it was only a matter of time before they created a new group.

This is a way for VSE to repackage Westin Mission Hills which is struggling as a voluntary resort with high maintenance fees.

During the 12-8 month owner's priority period, Flex owners will only be able to exchange for reservations in the flex pool - not the deeded weeks inventory that already belongs to owners.

From the start, this will really impact Nanea, because all Nanea reservations will be available to everyone in this group during the owner's reservation period. But at least to begin with, it shouldn't impact the other 3 Hawaii resorts as much. But eventually, as more and more deeds are sucked into the Flex pool inventory, there will be less and less Staroption availability.

(If I was a Nanea owner, I would be be po'd about this!)

It will probably mean that after Jan. 4th, you will only be able to buy FlexOptions from the developer at the 6 resorts in this group, but you can still buy deeded weeks on the resale market. However, it may mean that VSE will actively pursue more resales, or exercise ROFR more often, to acquire inventory for the Flex Pool.

As Robert said, this is a bad deal for owners/buyers, and a good deal for VSE.

It seems to me that since Vistana merged w Marriott they've diluted the value of their options and are restricting access to non-owners. Still too soon to tell but I sat through one of those repackage deals and almost bought because the Rep was so easy going. Note I Almost bought. Thank you all you tigers' for keeping it real.

 

[DeniseM]

Vistana and Marriott have not merged...

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

 

[DavidnRobin]

Their offer. They were taking my 2br ocean front resale which had no SO and bringing it Into the Adventuras system now giving me additional SO. Just as if I had bought it from Starwood. If the math isn’t there they were using 5 star as an incentive to close I guess as they said I was close based on my ownership. Since I don’t care about Elite status I didn’t do the math. I just wanted to get out and collect my $125. If they fudge it is their company. I’m just trying to tell you all my experience.

So... you are buying/getting enough SOs to get from 3* to 5* (290,000 plus - more likely more) for ~$20K - is that correct? Even after trading back OF resale.
What is "my 2br ocean front' mean? What resort? Resale SOs at V resorts can't be used for VSN, but they do have SOs associated with them.
Your details are too light in description... but, you are claiming getting a lot of SOs for only ~$20K.

 

[bizaro86]

I took that to me they offered to requal a 148k 2 bedroom ocean 'front' at LagunaMar, plus traded in a eoy gold lagunamar for credit toward the new Aventura flex.

 

[hawaii gal]

It seems to me that since Vistana merged w Marriott they've diluted the value of their options and are restricting access to non-owners. Still too soon to tell but I sat through one of those repackage deals and almost bought because the Rep was so easy going. Note I Almost bought. Thank you all you tigers' for keeping it real.

Just received a pitch for flex while at Kierland. Own OF (Kaanapali north) and OV (Kaanapali south). Will not sell OF, but thinking of turning OV into Flex because we have never been able to get to SW US properties during winter months cause can't get in. My gut tells me that 'giving up' the deeded owner status at Hawaii to join a larger pool of folks trying to get in is not a good idea. Also, now concerned that as FLEX pool grows that OWNERS pool of units will diminish and we won't get good unit location despite calling 12 months in advance. NEED feedback from others before I make a decision!

 

[hawaii gal]

I'm not surprised - since they made Nanea a Flex resort, it was only a matter of time before they created a new group.

This is a way for VSE to repackage Westin Mission Hills which is struggling as a voluntary resort with high maintenance fees.

During the 12-8 month owner's priority period, Flex owners will only be able to exchange for reservations in the flex pool - not the deeded weeks inventory that already belongs to owners.

From the start, this will really impact Nanea, because all Nanea reservations will be available to everyone in this group during the owner's reservation period. But at least to begin with, it shouldn't impact the other 3 Hawaii resorts as much. But eventually, as more and more deeds are sucked into the Flex pool inventory, there will be less and less Staroption availability.

(If I was a Nanea owner, I would be be po'd about this!)

It will probably mean that after Jan. 4th, you will only be able to buy FlexOptions from the developer at the 6 resorts in this group, but you can still buy deeded weeks on the resale market. However, it may mean that VSE will actively pursue more resales, or exercise ROFR more often, to acquire inventory for the Flex Pool.

As Robert said, this is a bad deal for owners/buyers, and a good deal for VSE.

I just posted at the very end of this thread concerns about converting an every year OV at Kaanapali South to Flex that would cost more in initial offer AND MF's. Would very much like feedback.

 

[vacationtime1]

Just received a pitch for flex while at Kierland. Own OF (Kaanapali north) and OV (Kaanapali south). Will not sell OF, but thinking of turning OV into Flex because we have never been able to get to SW US properties during winter months cause can't get in. My gut tells me that 'giving up' the deeded owner status at Hawaii to join a larger pool of folks trying to get in is not a good idea. Also, now concerned that as FLEX pool grows that OWNERS pool of units will diminish and we won't get good unit location despite calling 12 months in advance. NEED feedback from others before I make a decision!

Go with your gut.

My initial reaction when I heard that Vistana was asking for people to relinquish their WKORV deeds and accept FlexOptions in their place was how much Vistana was paying them to accept a lesser class of ownership (and one without any resale value).

 

[hawaii gal]

They were quite insistent that the new flex option was in fact deeded. But based on your comment, I would lose any resale value? That all by itself is enough not to do this. Can't help but wonder as well, that if they can convince enough owners to do this, that the pool of original deeded owners will shrink so much that we lose any leverage at all.

 

[dioxide45]

They were quite insistent that the new flex option was in fact deeded. But based on your comment, I would lose any resale value? That all by itself is enough not to do this. Can't help but wonder as well, that if they can convince enough owners to do this, that the pool of original deeded owners will shrink so much that we lose any leverage at all.

Flex is a deeded interest in a real estate trust. You don't own a week and don't have any home resort priority. As for the loss of resale value, it is because Flex is voluntary VSN. Meaning the StarOptions don't transfer on resale, so they are not as desirable to own. That may change if the weeks in the trust pool get better and booking in trust is easier. The problem is if you own a resale Westin Flex, you can't book Sheraton properties with points. If you own Sheraton Flex resale, you can't book Westin properties with StarOptions.

 

[hawaii gal]

Really appreciating these comments. If anyone has additional points of view on why...or why not... sell/convert my yearly OV WKORV to flex; it would be helpful.