New Membership Category above Chairman [MERGED]

[hcarman]

I know we have heard rumors for years. Today did an owner update and they are back at it. Newest level not named yet, but 20,000 points are grandfathered into the newest higher level. We were told benefits will be 30% off VC points booked, they are adding 3rd Home ( right now its just Villas of Distinction) and access to National Geographic and Tauck Tours ( instead of just Collette) there were a few other perks but these stood out. Said this all occurred in their March meeting. Also…..told us that Hyatt Vacation clubs are coming into the Marriott portfolio in the next 2 years. I have heard this stuff over and over. Does anyone think it will all ever occur? We have so many damn points and properties they really had nothing to gain by telling us all this. Just wondering if all sales reps are saying the same thing? Thoughts?


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I agree with you. Those tours are generally not a good value anyway. It will probably take a ton of points to do a Tauck or National Geographic Tour - kind of like some of the more luxury brand cruise lines you see. I believe Hyatt has National Geographic in their program but I have never priced out how many portfolio points it would take. Not sure why anyone would want to jump to a level they know nothing about unless they simply want more points.

 

[dougp26364]

Now that the horrible value of the hotel option is visible for everyone to see, I guess they’re going back to the same old dog and poney show about a new level with new benefits and Hyatt being added in. Some things never change.

 

[dougp26364]

Not sure why anyone would want to jump to a level they know nothing about unless they simply want more points.

Never underestimate the illogical thinking of the general public.

TUG members tend to be unique with a more factual based thought process.

 

[Red elephant]

Now that the horrible value of the hotel option is visible for everyone to see, I guess they’re going back to the same old dog and poney show about a new level with new benefits and Hyatt being added in. Some things never change.

So true during an update the sales rep told me that they know Hello Hotel option is a poor value and they have told the concierge not to mention it as a reason for the update.

 

[dioxide45]

So true during an update the sales rep told me that they know Hello Hotel option is a poor value and they have told the concierge not to mention it as a reason for the update.

This all seems very contradictory. There is an incredible amount of marketing material in the "concierge" area about Hello Hotels. I mean a lot. Big banners, small table top cards. Even their new scratcher contest is pushing Hello Hotels. It seems the people at the top that created this new program thought it was a huge thing they could use to market. It seems they have a disconnect between marketing and sales. Also the fact that they've provided zero training to sales on the Hello Hotels product. Though that is probably on purpose.

 

[emeryjre]

"They have a disconnect between marketing and sales"
Marriott marketing has really missed the boat on the new program
They will get a few people to buy the sizzle
The majority of points owners have figured out what a terrible value the program provides
There is nowhere to hide the cost of points
There is nowhere to hide the number of points needed for a hotel stay
Even a 3rd grader can figure out the cost of a night using points

 

[Red elephant]

This all seems very contradictory. There is an incredible amount of marketing material in the "concierge" area about Hello Hotels. I mean a lot. Big banners, small table top cards. Even their new scratcher contest is pushing Hello Hotels. It seems the people at the top that created this new program thought it was a huge thing they could use to market. It seems they have a disconnect between marketing and sales. Also the fact that they've provided zero training to sales on the Hello Hotels product. Though that is probably on purpose.

At Westin Lagunamar I did not see that much only a couple of counter top cards at the concierge and on their tables and no mention of it either. Maybe I was not paying attention. I did not even get a scratcher contest card.

 

[Red elephant]

"They have a disconnect between marketing and sales"
Marriott marketing has really missed the boat on the new program
They will get a few people to buy the sizzle
The majority of points owners have figured out what a terrible value the program provides
There is nowhere to hide the cost of points
There is nowhere to hide the number of points needed for a hotel stay
Even a 3rd grader can figure out the cost of a night using points

I told the sales rep that it was an insult to owners what Marriott is offering. The sales rep there are dreading when they have to only sell abound points.

 

[dioxide45]

At Westin Lagunamar I did not see that much only a couple of counter top cards at the concierge and on their tables and no mention of it either. Maybe I was not paying attention. I did not even get a scratcher contest card.

Perhaps they aren't offering the scratchers outside the US. Could be an issue with sweepstakes and drawings in another country. At all the resorts we've been to, they've had large banners. Probably 6' tall.

 

[BigDawgTUG]

Perhaps they aren't offering the scratchers outside the US. Could be an issue with sweepstakes and drawings in another country. At all the resorts we've been to, they've had large banners. Probably 6' tall.
View attachment 112896

Yes, very true about the marketing materials AT THE RESORTS. But . . . . interesting how there has not been a single new banner or any real conspicuous promotion on the MVC website when you log in. Its almost as if they knew up front that existing members would recognize no real value, and the aim was to attract new owners by pitching to them that they could go almost anywhere with Club Points.

 

[TolmiePeak]

Never underestimate the illogical thinking of the general public.

TUG members tend to be unique with a more factual based thought process.

Agreed but I've also seen plenty of TUG members blab about status. The status does have some value but it is a fraction of what it cost to get to the status. At a HGVC owners update the salesperson spend a bunch and time and energy blabbing about the benefits of the status levels. Towards the end their manager came over and told them our points were all resale and hence not eligible for any status.

 

[Dean]

As I noted previously, I do think they will add another tier at some point. The question remains whether it'll add much value, I doubt it will and I doubt it will be much of a problem for those at the next 2 tiers below that. The salespeople will likely not actually know until after we do if it ever does happen though.

 

[dougp26364]

As I noted previously, I do think they will add another tier at some point. The question remains whether it'll add much value, I doubt it will and I doubt it will be much of a problem for those at the next 2 tiers below that. The salespeople will likely not actually know until after we do if it ever does happen though.

I’m not certain what benefits they could add that would increase the value of a new tier yet not affect MVC’s bottom line. Longer booking window? 13 months seems plenty to me. How many would need a longer booking window? Save points for longer than 2 years? I would think that could be a logistical nightmare for MVC to attempt to plan inventory needs longer than two years and could affect their rental inventory. Expand options to spend points? If the value is going to amount to 30 cents per point when owners are paying over 80 cents per point, I don’t see much value there. Perhaps they could extend the deadline for banking all the way to December 31st? That would hold value for us, but only because we own a silver season week at Ocean Pointe and would prefer to use our week, assuming we could actually get the dates and unit size we want, rather than bank the week for points. However, I’m not spending $70,000 plus additional MF’s over $3,000 on points we do not need nor could we use efficiently. I’d say that’s a very small target market to want another 2 months to decide to use a week or convert to points.

I’m certain they can add a new tier. I’m just not certain there will be any value to it. As it stands now the only real value we get between Presidential and Chairman is the extra 6 months banking time, and that’s only because it makes it easier for me to plan since all the expirations dates are the end of the year.

For us we only want the points to get the vacations locations, views and unit sizes we want or a sale isn’t going to happen. At over $17/point and us fast approaching retirement plus the escalating MF issue, I can tell you without a doubt that it’s just not going to happen. If I absolutely wanted more points, the cost difference between resale with junk fees and retail is too large to ignore. We’d be looking resale through a known, legitimate broker.

 

[dougp26364]

Agreed but I've also seen plenty of TUG members blab about status. The status does have some value but it is a fraction of what it cost to get to the status. At a HGVC owners update the salesperson spend a bunch and time and energy blabbing about the benefits of the status levels. Towards the end their manager came over and told them our points were all resale and hence not eligible for any status.

There are those who will pay for status, but I bet it’s a relatively small pool. There are more who will pay based on fear of losing something, like choice of units/locations/views because all these higher levels get first choice. I have a couple of expensive CC’s myself that give us status, so in that way I’m paying just for a few privileges. However, if that’s their target market, it would be a pretty small pond.

We are chairman’s level. But we’re chairman’s level because I wanted to be able to book the size of unit and view when available we desired without having to mortgage next years vacations by borrowing points. The only real value we get is the expanded points saving period of 24 months vs 18 months. There does seem to be a value in hierarchy with unit placement as we rarely get a poor unit view, but that’s not written and it’s not guaranteed. Unit placement value is pure speculation.

Brag about it? I hope I’m not one of those people. Do I enjoy the benefit of not worrying I have enough points plus the little extras that come with it? You bet I do. Otherwise why bother.

Do note I put the words “tend to be” in my original statement. There are a few TUG members I block because of irrational statements or illogical thinking. Life’s too short for the same debate over and over and over again. Agree to disagree isn’t in everyone’s personality.

 

[dougp26364]

Perhaps they aren't offering the scratchers outside the US. Could be an issue with sweepstakes and drawings in another country. At all the resorts we've been to, they've had large banners. Probably 6' tall.
View attachment 112896

Perhaps MVC is thinking about going back to marketing more to non-MVC exchangers/renters who don’t know better? 20 years ago there seemed to be a bigger push to get exchangers or getaway guests in the door. We became owners because we snagged a December week at Ocean Pointe on an II AC all the way back in 2001 and became hooked. Could be the big banners are targeted at the rental market, exchange market and getaway market rather than current owners.

 

[ljmiii]

I’m not certain what benefits they could add that would increase the value of a new tier yet not affect MVC’s bottom line. Longer booking window? 13 months seems plenty to me. How many would need a longer booking window?...

If they accompanied a 14 month booking window with increased availability at the resorts that aren't in the trust (and ideally overriding the Vistana docs that prohibit reservations before 12 months at resorts like Los Cabos and the WSJ) I would buy up into a higher tier tomorrow. Resale of course...but MVC would still get their $3/point.

 

[Dean]

I don't think they could go to a 14 month window but they could add fluff, better election, banking and expiration windows, better value on the cash type exchanges though still likely not a good deal. They'd make back minor costs on the sales side.

 

[goodbadugly]

Thirteen months and just one day would be beneficial.

 

[ljmiii]

Thirteen months and just one day would be beneficial.

You may have something there. A lot of the original docs say 13 months for concurrent/consecutive reservations off of which MVC built the Abound 13 month window. But the window doesn't really open at 13 months...there are different days of the week for weeks reservations and points reservations neither of which necessarily line up with the real 13 month date (and which is very much unlike Vistana or DVC which do go off the date modulo different length months).

So in some sense MVC already broke the 13 month rule by having points and weeks reservation windows open on different days. Is there anything in the trust or exchange docs that prevents MVC from opening reservations to 'Centum' owners at 13 months on a Monday and everyone else at 13 months on a Tuesday?

 

[rickandcindy23]

There will be people that cannot resist a new ownership level. For whatever reason, a reason I cannot explain, my brain just loves that we are both titanium with Marriott hotels. My titanium is from Bonvoy Brilliant Amex + nights via timeshare stays. Rick's is automatic for our accidental Chairman's status, something I didn't expect but kind of love (for whatever reason) from our WKORV resale purchases. It was quite a surprise.

 

[Dean]

Thirteen months and just one day would be beneficial.

It would be beneficial for many if they qualified but I'm thinking there are too many legal hurdles to add that option. I think a points reduction would be far more workable and would be something they could legally institute.

 

[vacationtime1]

The question for Marriott is what kind of inexpensive-to-supply benefits will most appeal to their target audience. I suspect this target audience includes two groups -- owners who stay multiple weeks at one resort and owners who reserve multiple units at a resort for a week or longer (presumably for friends/family groups).

VIP lounges and private meeting rooms (for the large family groups) might work but could present problems because it would expropriate portions of the common areas for a limited group. But it would provide a superior experience for certain guests which Marriott can try to sell.

The multiple week guests would like late checkouts/early check-ins, or better, a guarantee of getting their 21, 28, or however many days in a single unit. There is no cost to Marriott for providing this benefit (any inconveniences will fall on other owners). Variations of that may exist already, but guarantees sell to some people.

Actually, I find the entire status level discussion rather amusing -- after Executive level the additional benefits are tiny when compared to the tens of thousands of dollars necessary to acquire them. I will watch for what crumbs Marriott will throw off to induce people to buy even more.

 

[Dean]

The question for Marriott is what kind of inexpensive-to-supply benefits will most appeal to their target audience. I suspect this target audience includes two groups -- owners who stay multiple weeks at one resort and owners who reserve multiple units at a resort for a week or longer (presumably for friends/family groups).

VIP lounges and private meeting rooms (for the large family groups) might work but could present problems because it would expropriate portions of the common areas for a limited group. But it would provide a superior experience for certain guests which Marriott can try to sell.

The multiple week guests would like late checkouts/early check-ins, or better, a guarantee of getting their 21, 28, or however many days in a single unit. There is no cost to Marriott for providing this benefit (any inconveniences will fall on other owners). Variations of that may exist already, but guarantees sell to some people.

Actually, I find the entire status level discussion rather amusing -- after Executive level the additional benefits are tiny when compared to the tens of thousands of dollars necessary to acquire them. I will watch for what crumbs Marriott will throw off to induce people to buy even more.

I find the incremental benefits even between Presidential and Chairman's helpful but not sufficient to pay retail for. I'm glad I'm chairman's now and not starting over to try to get there. Same can be said for every system I own though, esp DVC & Bluegreen.

 

[dougp26364]

If they accompanied a 14 month booking window with increased availability at the resorts that aren't in the trust (and ideally overriding the Vistana docs that prohibit reservations before 12 months at resorts like Los Cabos and the WSJ) I would buy up into a higher tier tomorrow. Resale of course...but MVC would still get their $3/point.

There will be people that cannot resist a new ownership level. For whatever reason, a reason I cannot explain, my brain just loves that we are both titanium with Marriott hotels. My titanium is from Bonvoy Brilliant Amex + nights via timeshare stays. Rick's is automatic for our accidental Chairman's status, something I didn't expect but kind of love (for whatever reason) from our WKORV resale purchases. It was quite a surprise.

So a limited market, but I wouldn’t think a large market.

I still don’t think an extra months booking window would be worth the $24,000 it would cost to buy resale and pay junk fees, not to mention the extra $3,200 MF’s per year.

Funny thing about titanium with BonVoy. I’m titanium because of our MVV ownership. My wife is platinum because of her Brilliant BonVoy AmEx. She gets better upgrades when we book under her account than when we book under my account. I’m not certain status matters very much, at least with BonVoy.

 

[Dean]

So a limited market, but I wouldn’t think a large market.

I still don’t think an extra months booking window would be worth the $24,000 it would cost to buy resale and pay junk fees, not to mention the extra $3,200 MF’s per year.

Every sales target is a somewhat limited market. From MVC's point of view it isn't about whether it makes sense for the buyer but whether they can spin it to get sufficient sales to deal with the costs and issues involved. Historically there have been very few situations where buying retail made sense financially. Even systems with essentially no resale value and that are available for free on the open market are still able to sell. It might be interesting to look at Carnival's revamped rewards program, I'd sure hate to see Bonvoy or Abound get gutted like that.