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dioxide45

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I would also be careful with your protest and not run in to trespassing issues. Entering the property to protest could get you into trouble.
 

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I would also be careful with your protest and not run in to trespassing issues. Entering the property to protest could get you into trouble.
We will be getting a permit, we've already been looking into the legalities. Thank you though.
 

dioxide45

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We will be getting a permit, we've already been looking into the legalities. Thank you though.
A permit won't help you with protesting on private property. Protesting from the public right of way would be important.
 

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A permit won't help you with protesting on private property. Protesting from the public right of way would be important.
We are attending the meeting, which we know will be rescheduled for our convenience, then we are moving to the public right of way.
 

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Enough is enough. It’s time for deceived Westgate timeshare hostages to stand up for themselves, against this corporation bully. It’s now or never, Orlando’s TV Action News 9 will film the protest if enough angry owners attend this on-site rally: https://facebook.com/events/s/hostage-protest/423166903227512/

A magnifying glass is needed to read the convoluted contract (while there is no mention of the plethora of non-disclosed fees).

This is why contract lawyers are generally hired, though in this case it is an expense that none of us thought was needed.

Shame on Westgate.

Join the in-person protest and help send a message to Consumer Protection Agency and government officials.

We know that this is LONG overdue. It’s time to change history…for ourselves and future generations.


A permit won't help you with protesting on private property. Protesting from the public right of way would be important.
Correct, both the Orlando Police Department and Orange County City Hall have confirmed that protesting on a public sidewalk is legal, within our rights and long overdue.

Enough is enough. It’s time for deceived Westgate timeshare hostages to stand up for themselves, against this corporation bully. It’s now or never, Orlando’s TV Action News 9 will film the protest if enough angry owners attend this on-site rally: https://facebook.com/events/s/hostage-protest/423166903227512/

A magnifying glass is needed to read the convoluted contract (while there is no mention of the plethora of non-disclosed fees).

This is why contract lawyers are generally hired, though in this case it is an expense that none of us thought was needed.

Shame on Westgate.

Join the in-person protest and help send a message to Consumer Protection Agency and government officials.

We know that this is LONG overdue. It’s time to change history…for ourselves and future generations.


To the OP, please notify all your local television stations to be at this rally. There is nothing liked bad public press for any corporation.

I feel your pain.
Enough is enough. It’s time for deceived Westgate timeshare hostages to stand up for themselves, against this corporation bully.

It’s now or never.

Orlando’s TV Action News 9 will film the protest if enough angry owners attend this on-site rally: https://facebook.com/events/s/hostage-protest/423166903227512/

It’s too far for some, but share this on forums and help take action for government officials to understand this hostage situation.

Note: Westgate is not currently accepting “Deedbacks” even if they get that exorbitant $2500, because they have an excess inventory.

IF they take the deed back, then the Developer is responsible for the maintenance fees and property taxes.

Westgate can sell unlimited units possibly well-over 52 times each, since The Registry of Deeds Supervisor said they don’t have any checks in place to ensure that overselling deeds doesn’t occur).
 

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Note: Westgate is not currently accepting “Deedbacks” even if they get that exorbitant $2500, because they have an excess inventory.

IF they take the deed back, then the Developer is responsible for the maintenance fees and property taxes.

Westgate can sell unlimited units possibly well-over 52 times each, since The Registry of Deeds Supervisor said they don’t have any checks in place to ensure that overselling deeds doesn’t occur).
When they state "the developer is responsible for the maintenance fees and property taxes...that's BS! First of all, I wonder how resorts that aren't timeshares survive without owners paying maintenance fees...Second of all, if you do the math, they have the money to afford any costs. If the average timeshare costs $22,000 and if they can sell that one unit up to 52 times that's about $ 1 million + the average maintenance fee of $1000/yr +exchange fees/banking fees. Potential for over $ 1 million- on 1 unit! So if the Developers claim they can not afford fees and taxes:bawl:they apparently can't budget properly. You would think Westgate would be wanting to find out why so many owners are requesting deedback...maybe if they really cared about owners there would not be so many requests...maybe if they even attempted to compromise with owners asking to deedback, instead of trying straight out denial then trying to upsell them there would not be as many defaults. But see it wouldn't be as profitable for them and they just are not willing to put the owners first...before the profit.
 

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First of all, I wonder how resorts that aren't timeshares survive without owners paying maintenance fees...
Well, they charge to rent the rooms, which on average works out to be more than what timeshares cost for maintenance fees pro-rated on a nightly basis... For timeshares, MFs replace night room rental rates to pay the staff, maintain the property, etc.

Second of all, if you do the math, they have the money to afford any costs. If the average timeshare costs $22,000 and if they can sell that one unit up to 52 times that's about $ 1 million + the average maintenance fee of $1000/yr +exchange fees/banking fees. Potential for over $ 1 million- on 1 unit! So if the Developers claim they can not afford fees and taxes:bawl:they apparently can't budget properly.
The initial sales do provide profit for the developer, but it is not only pure profit. They do after all have to pay for the cost to buy the land, build the resort, etc. Assuming they sell a week to someone and it never gets deeded back to the developer, that is only a one-time cash inflow. Of course, when deedbacks or other actions result in a deed going back to the developer, they do usually re-sell it, and if the initial building/acquisition loans are all paid off at that point it's pretty much profit for them. But aside from that, maintenance and personnel costs, along with property taxes, happen every year. So if, as you seem to be advocating, customers should be able to only pay the one-time purchase price and never have to pay MFs or property taxes, within a couple of years that property would run out of money, go bankrupt, and you would have no timeshare. This is because there is not going to be enough money coming in from selling "used" deeds to cover those ongoing costs, and even if all the initial sales money was just sitting there in a piggy bank, you'd be drawing down that balance to pay those recurring costs until there is nothing left.

For deeds held by the developer, yes, they do pay the MFs and property taxes as they are the "owner" of those timeshares. Those MFs get paid to the HOA to run the resort. While HOAs do often seem to be run by people aligned with the developer, they are separate entities. The HOA then uses those funds to pay for personnel, equipment, whatever is needed to run the resort.
 

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Well, they charge to rent the rooms, which on average works out to be more than what timeshares cost for maintenance fees pro-rated on a nightly basis... For timeshares, MFs replace night room rental rates to pay the staff, maintain the property, etc.


The initial sales do provide profit for the developer, but it is not only pure profit. They do after all have to pay for the cost to buy the land, build the resort, etc. Assuming they sell a week to someone and it never gets deeded back to the developer, that is only a one-time cash inflow. Of course, when deedbacks or other actions result in a deed going back to the developer, they do usually re-sell it, and if the initial building/acquisition loans are all paid off at that point it's pretty much profit for them. But aside from that, maintenance and personnel costs, along with property taxes, happen every year. So if, as you seem to be advocating, customers should be able to only pay the one-time purchase price and never have to pay MFs or property taxes, within a couple of years that property would run out of money, go bankrupt, and you would have no timeshare. This is because there is not going to be enough money coming in from selling "used" deeds to cover those ongoing costs, and even if all the initial sales money was just sitting there in a piggy bank, you'd be drawing down that balance to pay those recurring costs until there is nothing left.

For deeds held by the developer, yes, they do pay the MFs and property taxes as they are the "owner" of those timeshares. Those MFs get paid to the HOA to run the resort. While HOAs do often seem to be run by people aligned with the developer, they are separate entities. The HOA then uses those funds to pay for personnel, equipment, whatever is needed to run the resort.
No, that is not what I meant. I am just saying that when they state the Developer has to pay out of pocket for any unsold units...that is BS. They make enough on each sale that even when there are units unsold...they are not paying, it is the owners that are paying for those unsold units. Resorts, that are not timeshare don't get that average cushion of $22,000 + $1000 maintenance fees that go up every year...a lot. +banking fees, exchange fees + non-owners that reserve units. Each owner that paid off their loan...over paid. they can never get ahead of overpaying for the usage. Owners are paying those maintenance fees for their own units and unsold units. As I mentioned with the "average" unit being sold 52 times..will make over a million $, that 1 unit in 1 year does NOT cost the developer $ 1 million dollars...it is that money being used to pay for those unsold units. So when you say the developer is paying...you are wrong...the owners are and they are overpaying. No owner has paid less than market price for their week of vacation with Westgate. Which is what they sell people on, and then blame the defaulters for maintenance fees going up..It's all BS to keep people paying, and for what? The use of a hotel, and those with floating weeks, arent even guaranteed use. I can tell you that what I purchased was nothing but guaranteed fees for life. Sponger76, the perfect name for anyone that works for Westgate. They claim consumers are moochers but who makes it impossible to get out of a purchase- even after the loan is paid off, or when there is financial or medical hardship? What kind of company will deny a terminally ill person exit, or the owners that are 80+ but can not travel?
 

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IF they take the deed back, then the Developer is responsible for the maintenance fees and property taxes.
Slight technicality here and I don't mean to split hairs but, if a deed back is taken, it's not the developer who is responsible for MFs and taxes. It's the resort's Homeowners' Association (HOA) that's responsible. The HOA and the developer are two separate entities.

There have been threads on these boards debating whether developers should be legally required to take back unwanted TSs. But, it's been accurately pointed out that in most cases, after all the units are sold, the developer is long gone from the scene.
 

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Sponger76, the perfect name for anyone that works for Westgate.
Ummm no. I don't work for Westgate or any timeshare developer, I'm in the Army. Sponger is a reference to bodyboarding, my favorite sport. Good try, but you failed on that burn.

You also failed to acknowledge the basic math of how timeshares work. Like I said, that money from retail purchases doesn't just sit there in a piggy bank. And yes, the developer does pay the HOA the maintenance fees for any weeks it owns instead of a regular person like you or I. Are retail purchases overly expensive? Yes, and a lot of that is due to all the money they put into marketing, which I understand averages about 50% of the retail price. I understand you're mad because you're unhappy with your purchase, and you have every right to be. But that doesn't entitle you to your own facts or laws of economics.
 

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Slight technicality here and I don't mean to split hairs but, if a deed back is taken, it's not the developer who is responsible for MFs and taxes. It's the resort's Homeowners' Association (HOA) that's responsible. The HOA and the developer are two separate entities.
Well, it may or may not technically be the original developer, but the timeshare management company (Westgate, Marriott, whoever) does own any deeds it takes as deedbacks, ROFRs or non-payment of the mortgage, and in those cases they do pay the MFs to the HOA. The HOA only owns and is responsible for covering costs if they foreclose on a deed due to non-payment of MFs.
 

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Ummm no. I don't work for Westgate or any timeshare developer, I'm in the Army. Sponger is a reference to bodyboarding, my favorite sport. Good try, but you failed on that burn.

You also failed to acknowledge the basic math of how timeshares work. Like I said, that money from retail purchases doesn't just sit there in a piggy bank. And yes, the developer does pay the HOA the maintenance fees for any weeks it owns instead of a regular person like you or I. Are retail purchases overly expensive? Yes, and a lot of that is due to all the money they put into marketing, which I understand averages about 50% of the retail price. I understand you're mad because you're unhappy with your purchase, and you have every right to be. But that doesn't entitle you to your own facts or laws of economics.
Tell me what the difference between a resort and a timeshare ....why is it the average timeshare unit can bring in over a million in one year if sold 52 times...yet the average stay at a resort can bring in...we'll say 84,000/year...my point is that Westgate is making money...when they say they pay...yes, I guess you could say they pay for unowned units but they have the money...it comes from the owners and we are talking much more than just price gouging, there is nothing in a timeshare purchase that is worth $22,000 + maintenance fees. I may have been wrong about your name, but you are wrong about me being unhappy about my purchase. I am unhappy because Westgate sells by allowing misrepresentation by relying on the non-reliance clause for profit, they allow the pitch to go 2-8 hours yet the closing goal is 18 minutes and they use a title company owned by their lawyers (Greenspoon Marder). I'm unhappy because they do all of that and more, yet deny exit to owners that have paid off their mortgages. Terminally ill owners are being denied exit, and owners that have financial or medical hardships...it is all inexcusable. No, I am not upset about my purchase...it is what it is, we paid it off in 2015 and just quit pain the maintenance fees because what Westgate does is wrong. There is no math that can make any of this right.
 

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Tell me what the difference between a resort and a timeshare ....why is it the average timeshare unit can bring in over a million in one year if sold 52 times...yet the average stay at a resort can bring in...we'll say 84,000/year...my point is that Westgate is making money...when they say they pay...yes, I guess you could say they pay for unowned units but they have the money...it comes from the owners and we are talking much more than just price gouging, there is nothing in a timeshare purchase that is worth $22,000 + maintenance fees. I may have been wrong about your name, but you are wrong about me being unhappy about my purchase. I am unhappy because Westgate sells by allowing misrepresentation by relying on the non-reliance clause for profit, they allow the pitch to go 2-8 hours yet the closing goal is 18 minutes and they use a title company owned by their lawyers (Greenspoon Marder). I'm unhappy because they do all of that and more, yet deny exit to owners that have paid off their mortgages. Terminally ill owners are being denied exit, and owners that have financial or medical hardships...it is all inexcusable. No, I am not upset about my purchase...it is what it is, we paid it off in 2015 and just quit pain the maintenance fees because what Westgate does is wrong. There is no math that can make any of this right.
The unit is sold 52 times only once. They're not selling every week in every unit all over again for that same amount every year.
 

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Tell me what the difference between a resort and a timeshare ....why is it the average timeshare unit can bring in over a million in one year if sold 52 times...yet the average stay at a resort can bring in...we'll say 84,000/year...my point is that Westgate is making money...when they say they pay...yes, I guess you could say they pay for unowned units but they have the money...it comes from the owners and we are talking much more than just price gouging, there is nothing in a timeshare purchase that is worth $22,000 + maintenance fees. I may have been wrong about your name, but you are wrong about me being unhappy about my purchase. I am unhappy because Westgate sells by allowing misrepresentation by relying on the non-reliance clause for profit, they allow the pitch to go 2-8 hours yet the closing goal is 18 minutes and they use a title company owned by their lawyers (Greenspoon Marder). I'm unhappy because they do all of that and more, yet deny exit to owners that have paid off their mortgages. Terminally ill owners are being denied exit, and owners that have financial or medical hardships...it is all inexcusable. No, I am not upset about my purchase...it is what it is, we paid it off in 2015 and just quit pain the maintenance fees because what Westgate does is wrong. There is no math that can make any of this right.


I don't think any developer has an obligation to take back any deeds.

With that said, your best bet is to place it on eBay with a starting bid of $1. Another option would be to place it on TUG in the FREE Timeshare Giveaway Section and sweeten the pot by offering to pay maintenance fees and closing costs.......

Protesting could be a good idea BUT will it really solve your problem? No one really knows but my money is betting that it won't.





.
 

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The unit is sold 52 times only once. They're not selling every week in every unit all over again for that same amount every year.
Yes, and even at that we are talking over $ 1 million for that 1 unit...if they follow the law. But you need to remember that $1000 is every year and it goes up substantially every year and then you need to include banking fees/exchange fees/ and splitting fees...etc. Now floating weeks...I would like to see proof that they only sell those 52 times. Floating weeks are given fake building and unit numbers.
 

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I don't think any developer has an obligation to take back any deeds.

With that said, your best bet is to place it on eBay with a starting bid of $1. Another option would be to place it on TUG in the FREE Timeshare Giveaway Section and sweeten the pot by offering to pay maintenance fees and closing costs.......

Protesting could be a good idea BUT will it really solve your problem? No one really knows but my money is betting that it won't.





.
No, they are not obligated to take back but you do realize that probably 100% of owners were sold under the impression there were options to get out. You can not give timeshares away, even if you could, Westgate limits usage for those owners that purchase on the secondary market. Yes, protesting will be worth it if it prevents 1 person from attending the sales pitch!
 

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...you do realize that probably 100% of owners were sold under the impression there were options to get out.
I'll agree somewhat with that statement. Some owners bought into it with the idea that they were buying salable real estate (which they are in fact doing) that would hold, or even increase, in value and, when no longer wanted, could be easily resold for a greater amount.

But let's not just point the finger at Westgate on this. Almost all developers and TS companies are guilty of this.
 

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I'll agree somewhat with that statement. Some owners bought into it with the idea that they were buying salable real estate (which they are in fact doing) that would hold, or even increase, in value and, when no longer wanted, could be easily resold for a greater amount.

But let's not just point the finger at Westgate on this. Almost all developers and TS companies are guilty of this.
The reason I focus on Westgate is that I am familiar with Westgate. I have researched Westgate's practices, lawsuits, and complaints filed with the FL AG, TN AG, FTC, CFPB, DBPR, and more- Westgate has several unethical, if not illegal, practices they are known for. They are unscrupulous when it comes to ethics and the law. They are known for hiding the POS, of the owners I have spoken with- none were aware of what the POS was, where to find it, or that it should be read prior to the end of the rescission period. They have lost in court regarding telemarketing laws, employment classification laws, and currently for violating the Military Lending Act. I have also obtained 4000+ pages of complaints filed with the FL AG, TN AG, and the FTC and there is a serious problem with Westgate. Unfortunately, the regulating agencies are turning a blind eye, probably because of the revenue brought into the state. So, I am going to point the finger at Westgate, I am not going to go away and I am not going to just accept it. Those that do accept it, shame on them.
 

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Yes, and even at that we are talking over $ 1 million for that 1 unit...if they follow the law. But you need to remember that $1000 is every year and it goes up substantially every year and then you need to include banking fees/exchange fees/ and splitting fees...etc. Now floating weeks...I would like to see proof that they only sell those 52 times. Floating weeks are given fake building and unit numbers.
Yes, and you need to figure how much it costs to build a resort. Easily in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Then you're paying for marketing/advertising, and of course the salespeople themselves. That money from initial sales isn't just sitting there in a bank account, and while some of that is profit (that's why businesses exist after all), not all of it is. Not even half. And the maintenance fees, well, I can only keep saying over and over again that is what is meant to cover the annual cost of running the resort: paying employees at the desk, room cleaning and maintenance crews, electricity, water, renovations every so many years, etc. The fees for banking, exchanging, etc., yes that is mostly profit.
 

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Yes, and you need to figure how much it costs to build a resort. Easily in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Then you're paying for marketing/advertising, and of course the salespeople themselves. That money from initial sales isn't just sitting there in a bank account, and while some of that is profit (that's why businesses exist after all), not all of it is. Not even half. And the maintenance fees, well, I can only keep saying over and over again that is what is meant to cover the annual cost of running the resort: paying employees at the desk, room cleaning and maintenance crews, electricity, water, renovations every so many years, etc. The fees for banking, exchanging, etc., yes that is mostly profit.
You are not getting what I am saying. Resorts exist without "ownership", they survive... why is it that a timeshare resort can not survive without mortgage/maintenance fees/exchange fees/banking fees/ etc? Timeshare offers nothing more than resorts and does less advertising than resorts. Yes, they may have a sales department where the typical resort doesn't but that is about the only difference. And I never once thought that money just sits in an account somewhere. It is the income from owners that pays for any unsold units, not the developer per se paying.
 

dioxide45

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You are not getting what I am saying. Resorts exist without "ownership", they survive... why is it that a timeshare resort can not survive without mortgage/maintenance fees/exchange fees/banking fees/ etc? Timeshare offers nothing more than resorts and does less advertising than resorts. Yes, they may have a sales department where the typical resort doesn't but that is about the only difference. And I never once thought that money just sits in an account somewhere. It is the income from owners that pays for any unsold units, not the developer per se paying.
The sales models are completely different. YOu are comparing apples and oranges. If you want to go to a hotel/resort, pay cash rates. Owning timeshare has advantages, just never when you finance the purchase.
 

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You are not getting what I am saying. Resorts exist without "ownership", they survive... why is it that a timeshare resort can not survive without mortgage/maintenance fees/exchange fees/banking fees/ etc? Timeshare offers nothing more than resorts and does less advertising than resorts. Yes, they may have a sales department where the typical resort doesn't but that is about the only difference. And I never once thought that money just sits in an account somewhere. It is the income from owners that pays for any unsold units, not the developer per se paying.
Resorts charge nightly rent for each room. If timeshares didn't have mortgage/maintenance fees, they would have to charge nightly rent, and then it wouldn't be a timeshare, it would be a resort.

Or are you suggesting timeshare companies give weeks to owners for no mortgage (ie free) and no maintenance fees (meaning no money to pay employees/maintenance/utilities) and quickly go bankrupt and disappear? It appears you don't understand how businesses operate.
 

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Resorts charge nightly rent for each room. If timeshares didn't have mortgage/maintenance fees, they would have to charge nightly rent, and then it wouldn't be a timeshare, it would be a resort.

Or are you suggesting timeshare companies give weeks to owners for no mortgage (ie free) and no maintenance fees (meaning no money to pay employees/maintenance/utilities) and quickly go bankrupt and disappear? It appears you don't understand how businesses operate.M
My whole point is that timeshare brings in enough money to cover those units that have not been purchased. I am tired of seeing those in the industry that are making excuses for why non-owners get priority on reservations, I was told they have to cover the cost of those unsold units...that is BS. The owner's mortgage/maintenance fees/ exchange fees /banking fees have more than paid for those unsold units. I am just saying that owners should always have reservation power over non-owners. And when people blame the defaulters for the maintenance fees increasing..yeah, that isn't why the maintenance fees go up. I do believe that Westgate resorts need to just be a resort because they are not providing owners with anything outside of what non-owners get. There is absolutely no benefit to being an owner. NONE!
 

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90% of sales proceeds from timeshares go to sales and marketing, not developer profit.
 

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I'm 100% behind this protest, people in Canada and USA don't protest enough. Good luck!
 
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