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Benn

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Calling all Westgate Timeshare Owners that are Hostages with no legitimate options for exit. There will be a protest at Westgate Lakes Resort & Spa on January 5, 2023, 6pm 9500 Turkey Lake Rd Orlando, FL.
For more information please join our group on Facebook Westgate Timeshare Hostages.
 

LannyPC

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I wouldn't say there are no legitimate options. Even if Westgate refuses to let you give back, your last option would be to default and let your TS go into foreclosure.
 
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I wouldn't say there are no legitimate options. Even if Westgate refuses to let you give back, your last option would be to default and let your TS go into foreclosure.
 

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Yes, but that is not a "responsible exit" and why I say legitimate.
 

theo

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Yes, but that is not a "responsible exit" and why I say legitimate.

I have only unmitigated contempt for Wastegate, but the question still warrants at least being asked:
Have you inquired into Wastegate's "deedback" program, which they call "Legacy"? ("Larceny" apparently just doesn't have the same ring to it as a program name).

"Legacy" will of course cost you money out of pocket' (likely well over $1,000, in addition to all maintenence fees first having to be fully paid up to date). I am certainly not in any way endorsing this particular option; I am merely pointng out its' existence as a "legitimate" (albeit greedy and larcenous) alternative to foreclosure. :shrug:
 
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Benn

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I have only unmitigated contempt for Wastegate, but the question still warrants at least being asked:
Have you inquired into Wastegate's "deedback" program, which they call "Legacy"? ("Larceny" apparently just doesn't have the same ring to it as a program name).

"Legacy" will of course cost you money out of pocket' (likely +/- $1,000, in addition to all maintenence fees having to be fully paid up to date). Not endorsing this option, just pointing out its' existence as a "legitimate" alternative to foreclosure. :shrug:
Yes, We paid ours off in 2015 and requested to deedback in 2020, fully expecting to pay the $2500 they say they charge (but to my knowledge this is extremely rare to be approved for deedback). Westgate denied our request, stating they had no obligation to provide us with a reason. So, we stopped paying our dues in Jan 2021. Larceny :clap:is definitely a more fitting name for that program!
 

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So, we stopped paying our dues in Jan 2021.
So since it's been nearly two years since you've stopped paying, what has Westgate done? Did it send you collection calls and/or letters? Did it foreclose on you? Has this affected your credit rating or score?
 

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So since it's been nearly two years since you've stopped paying, what has Westgate done? Did it send you collection calls and/or letters? Did it foreclose on you? Has this affected your credit rating or score?
Yes, I received many collections calls. The picture shows how many times they called in less than 2 months, the ones in red are the ones I was available to talk and each time told them to stop calling and that I didn't owe WG anything. The cease and desist must be in writing so I emailed them and told them to stop...they did! They are coming after me but I do believe they are targeting me because I have been making noise for 2 years now, filing complaints, communicating with regulating agencies, and have a FB page that in less than 1 year has grown to about 1500 members. They typically wait about 4 years (I think the statute of limitations of debt collection is 5 years) and then come after defaulters that are worth their time and effort. No, it has not affected my credit. I have been told that because maintenance fees are not actual debt (like a loan that has to be paid back) it shouldn't affect credit.
collection calls.jpg
 

andre10056

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The thing that I don't understand about your experience as conveyed above is why they didn't accept your deedback. After all, you were willing to pay their almost unbelievably expensive $2500 to do so.

That makes little sense to me as to any Florida timeshare since, from my understanding via this site, as long as you don't object to their foreclosure (very important!), and they do foreclose, Westgate thereafter has zero ability to collect anything from you. There would be no deficiency judgment, no judgment for allegedly past due maintenance fees. All they'd get for presumably sky high legal bills would be the timeshare back.

Again, that's my understanding from what I've read on TUG as pertains to Florida timeshares. So by no means is that legal advice and I advise anyone similarly situated to consult a Florida attorney with knowledge about Florida timeshare foreclosure law.

But perhaps you've stated an objection to a foreclosure in some way. "I don't owe this or that because you defrauded me" (an objection) or some such message may have been communicated to them. In that case, they can conceivably get a judgment for unpaid maintenance fees plus contractual fees and penalties plus attorney's fees. And that unquestionably WOULD have a significant impact upon your credit record. Not to mention your being pursued for the collection of that judgment.

To me, if a resort knows the law, and knows that you know the law (perhaps via an attorney's intervention), and as a result knows that they would have no recourse against a non-objecting non-payer, it seems they would be eager to take back the deed at no charge rather than wasting their legal fees.

If you might possibly maybe have objected, and that's why they're treating you so confidently and boldly, again I suggest you speak to an appropriate attorney. Perhaps (and this is mere speculation) he can change the messaging to:

"My client acknowledges that your computation of past due maintenance fees plus other fees is 100% accurate. However, he/she is unable to pay those fees. He/she would have no objection to your foreclosing upon him/her. But perhaps you might prefer to do a deedback which he/she's willing to do without hesitation".
 

andre10056

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Indeed, might your planned protest itself be an objection? Just speculating but perhaps the theme of your protest is that Westgate is so unfair about approving deedbacks (an objection).

If so, your Facebook group (no doubt replete with objections to what Westgate is doing and what has been done to you), your planned protest, everything involved in this crusade, might be working against your best interests.

I don't know this, and perhaps my speculation is wrong, but it seems that appropriate legal advice should be obtained rather than doing precisely the wrong thing.
 

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The thing that I don't understand about your experience as conveyed above is why they didn't accept your deedback. After all, you were willing to pay their almost unbelievably expensive $2500 to do so.

That makes little sense to me as to any Florida timeshare since, from my understanding via this site, as long as you don't object to their foreclosure (very important!), and they do foreclose, Westgate thereafter has zero ability to collect anything from you. There would be no deficiency judgment, no judgment for allegedly past due maintenance fees. All they'd get for presumably sky high legal bills would be the timeshare back.

Again, that's my understanding from what I've read on TUG as pertains to Florida timeshares. So by no means is that legal advice and I advise anyone similarly situated to consult a Florida attorney with knowledge about Florida timeshare foreclosure law.

But perhaps you've stated an objection to a foreclosure in some way. "I don't owe this or that because you defrauded me" (an objection) or some such message may have been communicated to them. In that case, they can conceivably get a judgment for unpaid maintenance fees plus contractual fees and penalties plus attorney's fees. And that unquestionably WOULD have a significant impact upon your credit record. Not to mention your being pursued for the collection of that judgment.

To me, if a resort knows the law, and knows that you know the law (perhaps via an attorney's intervention), and as a result knows that they would have no recourse against a non-objecting non-payer, it seems they would be eager to take back the deed at no charge rather than wasting their legal fees.

If you might possibly maybe have objected, and that's why they're treating you so confidently and boldly, again I suggest you speak to an appropriate attorney. Perhaps (and this is mere speculation) he can change the messaging to:

"My client acknowledges that your computation of past due maintenance fees plus other fees is 100% accurate. However, he/she is unable to pay those fees. He/she would have no objection to your foreclosing upon him/her. But perhaps you might prefer to do a deedback which he/she's willing to do without hesitation".
Think of it this way if they accept they get $2,500 and then have to re-sell. If they deny, they continue to get maintenance fees for life and they can resell anyway. Which makes them more money? They deny close to 100% of owners that request to deedback- even with the loan paid off. They do not benefit from the fee to deedback as they do getting ongoing payments. If you default...they just wait, let fees build up to make it worth the time and effort, and then right before the statute of limitations for debt collections is up and then come after you. Their mode of operation is fear. They even claim a loan default is no different than a home mortgage default, which is NOT true. According to HUD timeshare loans are installment loans and not home loans (banks and other lenders will not finance them because the loan will not be backed by actual real estate). They have nothing to lose by the denial. Westgate knows the law but they are also known for breaking the law- they've been in court for breaking employment laws, and telemarketing laws, and are currently in court over breaking the Military Lending Act so I would never trust Westgate when it comes to the law.
 

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I'm not sure you read all of what I wrote.

Obviously, they benefit if they can BOTH keep charging you maintenance fees and a whole laundry list of other delinquency fees, penalties, and interest while still knowing with certainty (based upon your behavior/messaging) that they'll be able to collect everything from you.

However, they don't benefit at all if part 2, the collection part, will not be available to them. And if you follow the appropriate steps (apparently requiring non-objection), they'll see that collection will not be a possibility (at least, as I understand it).

Right now, they're certain about part 2. As soon as they see part 2, the collection part, will never happen, I personally believe things will be quite a bit different.

I believe if you handle this correctly, you'll be able to change your name to Freeand Clear.
 

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Indeed, might your planned protest itself be an objection? Just speculating but perhaps the theme of your protest is that Westgate is so unfair about approving deedbacks (an objection).

If so, your Facebook group (no doubt replete with objections to what Westgate is doing and what has been done to you), your planned protest, everything involved in this crusade, might be working against your best interests.

I don't know this, and perhaps my speculation is wrong, but it seems that appropriate legal advice should be obtained rather than doing precisely the wrong thing.
Westgate is working against my best efforts- you would have to join our facebook page to see what Westgate does- too much to put here. I forgot to mention the Public Offering Statement- which is a document that legally must be provided to the consumer at closing and should be read before the end of the rescission period. Many, including myself, had the CD with the POS placed in a secret pocket and Westgate does not tell the consumer. We purchased in 2010, and found the CD In 2020 which is what started my 2-year fight. Some of the lawsuits Westgate has been in involved the hiding of the POS. Most of the owners I talk to have no clue what the POS is or where they can find it- Westgate is breaking the law if they are not ensuring everyone that purchases knows what and where it is and that it must be read prior to the end of the rescission period. I have obtained 4000+ pages of complaints filed against WG and based on those- Westgate is failing owners by not making sure they know what they are getting into. It is unethical, and I have no doubt some illegal what they do and even when I am out- I will not be done because too many are being harmed by something that is supposed to improve the enjoyment of life!
 

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I'm not sure you read all of what I wrote.

Obviously, they benefit if they can BOTH keep charging you maintenance fees and a whole laundry list of other delinquency fees, penalties, and interest while still knowing with certainty (based upon your behavior/messaging) that they'll be able to collect everything from you.

However, they don't benefit at all if part 2, the collection part, will not be available to them. And if you follow the appropriate steps (apparently requiring non-objection), they'll see that collection will not be a possibility (at least, as I understand it).

Right now, they're certain about part 2. As soon as they see part 2, the collection part, will never happen, I personally believe things will be quite a bit different.

I believe if you handle this correctly, you'll be able to change your name to Freeand Clear.
Why would I admit to a debt I do not owe? I am not objecting to foreclosure. I told them in 2020 they could have it but they didn't want it, couldn't even pay them to take it back. That isn't right to deny deedback but then wait and try to get more than what the cancellation fee was. I DO NOT OWE WESTGATE ANYTHING.
 
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My last post on the matter: you're objecting to what they claim they owe. Or as you put it, "Why would I admit to a debt I do not owe?"

By doing so, that becomes a legitimate court case in which, like all court cases, the judge has to decide what is owed. Upon the conclusion of that "what do I owe litigation?" rather than an unopposed foreclosure filing, everything that you are deemed to owe by the judge (which is probably everything) can be collected. Or so I understand it. Please consult an attorney to get accurate information.

If entered against you, the judgment will likely be recorded and will drop your credit score by several hundred points. At least, according to my understanding.

You may (again, as I understand it) be leading yourself to ruin while also leading others to ruin.
 

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My last post on the matter: you're objecting to what they claim they owe. Or as you put it, "Why would I admit to a debt I do not owe?"

By doing so, that becomes a legitimate court case in which, like all court cases, the judge has to decide what is owed. Upon the conclusion of that "what do I owe litigation?" rather than an unopposed foreclosure filing, everything that you are deemed to owe by the judge (which is probably everything) can be collected. Or so I understand it. Please consult an attorney to get accurate information.

If entered against you, the judgment will likely be recorded and will drop your credit score by several hundred points. At least, according to my understanding.

You may (again, as I understand it) be leading yourself to ruin while also leading others to ruin.
I wouldn't care if it obliterated my credit score- that is only temporary. Also, my understanding is credit might only drop 160 or less but that is with the "mortgage". I have no mortgage, maintenance fees are not debt, and credit reporting is usually for debt. Westgate will have to prove I owe a debt. If anything Westgate owes me. I understand you are trying to make it simple but I am not going for simple, I am going for what is right. You will not convince me to do otherwise but I appreciate the effort and your time.
 

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To the OP, please notify all your local television stations to be at this rally. There is nothing liked bad public press for any corporation.

I feel your pain.
 

Benn

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To the OP, please notify all your local television stations to be at this rally. There is nothing liked bad public press for any corporation.

I feel your pain.
Thank you, we are trying to get all the attention possible- please share with anyone you know that might be in the area and willing to attend!
 

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My last post on the matter: you're objecting to what they claim they owe. Or as you put it, "Why would I admit to a debt I do not owe?"

By doing so, that becomes a legitimate court case in which, like all court cases, the judge has to decide what is owed. Upon the conclusion of that "what do I owe litigation?" rather than an unopposed foreclosure filing, everything that you are deemed to owe by the judge (which is probably everything) can be collected. Or so I understand it. Please consult an attorney to get accurate information.

If entered against you, the judgment will likely be recorded and will drop your credit score by several hundred points. At least, according to my understanding.

You may (again, as I understand it) be leading yourself to ruin while also leading others to ruin.
Technically the debt on MFs is owed to the HOA for the property. Westgate is the management company. The HOA would be the one to foreclose, but Westgate should be doing that on their behalf. Westgate doesn't really care about these unpaid maintenance fees because they can pass the bad debt on to other owners at the resort through higher maintenance fees and when the unit goes unreserved, they can then likely rent it out for cash or rent it out as cheap preview packages to get more people through sales to buy Westgate timeshares.

I beleive objection to the foreclosure has to be in writing and would actually need to happen after foreclosure is filed, which hasn't happened yet.
 

andre10056

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Technically the debt on MFs is owed to the HOA for the property. Westgate is the management company. The HOA would be the one to foreclose, but Westgate should be doing that on their behalf. Westgate doesn't really care about these unpaid maintenance fees because they can pass the bad debt on to other owners at the resort through higher maintenance fees and when the unit goes unreserved, they can then likely rent it out for cash or rent it out as cheap preview packages to get more people through sales to buy Westgate timeshares.

I beleive objection to the foreclosure has to be in writing and would actually need to happen after foreclosure is filed, which hasn't happened yet.
If that's true, that the objection must be in writing, and that any objection could only be considered an objection if sent after the foreclosure action is filed, then the OP might be able to escape the negative consequences of his/her crusade. Unless, of course, the OP, after receiving notice of the forelosure action due to his/her non-payment, angrily puts in writing that he/she doesn't owe money, that Westgate owes him/her money, etc., etc., etc.

But I remember a couple of years ago discussing this matter on TUG, and asking numerous questions about it as I found it fascinating, and people warning that you shouldn't say a word to them when they call. Don't allow them in any way to assert that you're objecting to the foreclosure due to non-payment, etc. So I hope you're right, for the OP's sake and many other people's sake.

Again, if it were me, I would find a Florida attorney (and apparently South Carolina has a similar law) that has knowledge of the ins and outs of Florida timeshare foreclosure law to be sure you're walking down precisely the right path. You'd likely pay something for the consultation, but it would be well worth it.
 

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Technically the debt on MFs is owed to the HOA for the property. Westgate is the management company. The HOA would be the one to foreclose, but Westgate should be doing that on their behalf. Westgate doesn't really care about these unpaid maintenance fees because they can pass the bad debt on to other owners at the resort through higher maintenance fees and when the unit goes unreserved, they can then likely rent it out for cash or rent it out as cheap preview packages to get more people through sales to buy Westgate timeshares.

I beleive objection to the foreclosure has to be in writing and would actually need to happen after foreclosure is filed, which hasn't happened yet.
I wouldn't say Westgate doesn't care about the maintenance fees, they are greedy. I have no doubt maintenance fees would rise annually even without any default so going after any default is just a bonus. Based on my experiance with westgate they rent out the units to non-owners first anyway (for those with floating weeks). They rely on the owners paying but can not guarantee us units, which in my option owners should be guaranteed a unit and never be forced to bank only to pay again to use, especially when it is caused because non-owners have priority. So basically you could say Westgate is the "mismanagement company".
 

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I understand you are trying to make it simple but I am not going for simple, I am going for what is right.
Okay, fair enough. You are standing by your principles. What I would like to know is, what are you hoping this protest will accomplish? If you want to protest, that's your civil right. I'm not discouraging you from doing so. Just wondering what you think or hope it will accomplish.
 

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Okay, fair enough. You are standing by your principles. What I would like to know is, what are you hoping this protest will accomplish? If you want to protest, that's your civil right. I'm not discouraging you from doing so. Just wondering what you think or hope it will accomplish.
The goal is to prevent others from falling for the misrepresentation. If Westgate refuses to ensure consumers understand what they are purchasing we will do it for them. Westgate's response to almost 100% of the complaints filed: "Verbal communication can not be verified" and "Timeshare is highly regulated and contractual in nature, the Developer strives to eliminate the possibility of any misunderstandings with regard to what may have been represented to you." Neither responses are acceptable and would not be accepted in any other industry, the second is especially unacceptable because if that statement were true, why are so many owners confused..because it would be less profitable if consumers were fully aware prior to the purchase.
 

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andre10056

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The reason I found the topic of Florida timeshare foreclosure so fascinating is that I couldn't believe there was such a simple solution for disgruntled Florida timeshare owners. You could have just recently left the timeshare sales people, have obligated yourself to pay $20,000 to own the timeshare plus $2000 per year maintenance fees, and then all-of-a-sudden wake up and realize you made a horrible mistake. But then check your contract and realize that you just missed the opportunity to rescind your contract as your right to rescind expired yesterday.

So you tear your hair out, throw stuff around your house, blame your wife, vomit several times, and just generally have a permanent cloud hanging over you.

But then you somehow find out there's a Florida consumer protection law that states that timeshare HOAs can only foreclose upon you and take back the timeshare. They can't collect a dime that they might claim you owe.

At least, that's my understanding from information that appeared on TUG a couple of years ago. But that consumer protection law will only protect you if you do not object to the foreclosure. If you do object, it's a court case which allows plaintiffs to get a judgment for anything they're owed. And then come after you to collect that judgment..

Again, that's my understanding from information provided by others. I would consult an attorney to make sure.

So how do these timeshare exit companies get thousands of dollars from people who want to exit their timeshares? And Florida timeshare owners may very well be the majority of this country's timeshare owners so I imagine Florida owners make up a huge percentage of exit companies' clients.

The reason: people don't know. They could (and apparently should) do nothing, The timeshare entity would take back the timeshare without recourse against the former owner, and there may or not be an entry pertaining to the foreclosure on the foreclosed person's credit record. Incredible if true!
 
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The reason I found the topic of Florida timeshare foreclosure so fascinating is that I couldn't believe there was such a simple solution for disgruntled Florida timeshare owners. You could have just recently left the timeshare sales people, have obligated yourself to pay $20,000 to own the timeshare plus $2000 per year maintenance fees, and then all-of-a-sudden wake up and realize you made a horrible mistake. But then check your contract and realize that you just missed the opportunity to rescind your contract as your right to rescind expired yesterday.

So you tear your hair out, throw stuff around your house, blame your wife, vomit several times, and just generally have a permanent cloud hanging over you.

But then you somehow find out there's a Florida consumer protection law that states that timeshare HOAs can only foreclose upon you and take back the timeshare. They can't collect a dime that they might claim you owe.

At least, that's my understanding from information that appeared on TUG a couple of years ago. But that consumer protection law will only protect you if you do not object to the foreclosure. If you do object, it's a court case which allows plaintiffs to get a judgment for anything they're owed. And then come after you to collect that judgment..

Again, that's my understanding from information provided by others. I would consult an attorney to make sure.

So how do these timeshare exit companies get thousands of dollars from people who want to exit their timeshares? And Florida timeshare owners may very well be the majority of this country's timeshare owners so I imagine Florida owners make up a huge percentage of exit companies' clients.

The reason: people don't know. They could (and apparently should) do nothing, The timeshare entity would take back the timeshare without recourse against the former owner, and there may or not be an entry pertaining to the foreclosure on the foreclosed person's credit record. Incredible if true!
I could be wrong but I think you are confusing debt collection with deficiency collection. FL can not come back after foreclosure and collect for deficiency. The exit companies make their money because owners are desperate but trusting people, they want to be responsible, and that is why the timeshare industry has started touting the "Responsible Exit"...we all know defaulters will be considered "deadbeats". Also as I stated before, Westgate classifies their loans as Home Mortgages, which leads owners to believe if they default they will not be able to get loans due to the credit damage it would cause. Owners do what they can to get out but not do more damage to their finances, not knowing that the exit companies aren't legit. At least with the exit company, it's a 1-time fee, timeshare is forever.
 
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