Withdraw Sunset Harbor from HRC Management

[GTLINZ]

If I owned at HSH, I would vote to remove Hyatt as a management company. But I don't own there, so I hope it doesn't happen.

I agree with ECHINO and would hate to no longer be able to trade in there since I don't own there - but i would vote to get out because if i did own there it would be because i wanted to use my week.

 

[dioxide45]

Even at 10% less, adds up when you own multiple weeks. And not having to pay II fees multiple times, or being able to opt out of these II type systems adds to this amount. And changing management, then I would expect to be able to use my owner week lockout without Hyatt gouging, or using their system to their advantage at the cost of mine.
One thing I am 100 percent convinced on is that Marriott has it's corporate profits front and center, AKA selling points and expanding fees and not mine as an owner.

I wouldn't ever see Hyatt doing an optional II membership. Like pretty much every other system, they would have a corporate account setup where a club fee is mandatory. THis guarantees certain revenue for II, which Marriott Vacations Worldwide also owns. That said, I think the $157/week is rediculous. Would be much better if tiered like Marriott Vacation Club and Vistana.

 

[Kal]

It's interesting to speculate how the owners of "low value" HSH weeks would respond to a vote. Those low value weeks are purely defined by the Key West climate. Weeks 27 to 40 owners do represent a large block where they probably don't frequently stay at HSH during those weeks.

 

[AJCts411]

It's interesting to speculate how the owners of "low value" HSH weeks would respond to a vote. Those low value weeks are purely defined by the Key West climate. Weeks 27 to 40 owners do represent a large block where they probably don't frequently stay at HSH during those weeks.

I can't say about other weeks but 39 and 40, the people we meet year after year, and recognize are owners. Didn't do a poll, but I have the feeling that most are owners rather than traders/renters. FYI I think 39 and 40 are great weeks, everything is open, great music everywhere and previous to covid, all the reasons to go to Key West is happening without the huge crowds.

 

[Kal]

I can't say about other weeks but 39 and 40, the people we meet year after year, and recognize are owners. Didn't do a poll, but I have the feeling that most are owners rather than traders/renters. FYI I think 39 and 40 are great weeks, everything is open, great music everywhere and previous to covid, all the reasons to go to Key West is happening without the huge crowds.

As a reference to my comment on "low value weeks", please see the attached image. This gives a quick look at the resale value of some of those weeks.

 

[Tenga]

Key West "Hyatt/Marriott" sales dept is specifically telling buyers and showing photo's of 8 Welk resorts at the KW sales office lobby. It will be offered on the Hyatt website next year. San Diego, Branson MO, Breckenridge, Cabo’s, Lake Tahoe, Palm Springs, CA. All for 1020 points at $19.59 per point. Looks like it knows the handwrighting is on the wall with HSH leaving!

This in its self should be the wake up call to any Hyatt/Welk current owner holding a deeded week. IMO the strongest Hyatt owners are the KW Beach House owners by far in the system! They run the board with a iron fist! When HSH goes, the next vote will be them!
Regards,
Tenga

 

[Kal]

... IMO the strongest Hyatt owners are the KW Beach House owners by far in the system! They run the board with a iron fist! When HSH goes, the next vote will be them!
Regards,
Tenga

The vast majority of Beach House owners are absentees. They only want the points for use elsewhere so it definitely would not be in their interests to have a stand-alone property. Many of those owners have never stayed at the Beach House but use the points to stay at HSH.

 

[Tenga]

Thanks Kal, ya made my point

Sunset goes BH is next and with 1 out of the 3 in Key West gone. What is left will make the bookings all the harder! With 2 out of 3 gone in Key West good luck with that sales center being the major hub of sales for Hyatt/Marriott. Could that be the reason Stephen P Weisz spent so much for Welk??? Is this now the sale focus at KW sales center focus on Welk not KW?? It sure feels to me like taking some of the heat off the sales people trying to tout come to KW enjoy your new TS here!

Over the years every Beach House owner I've met has talked about the pride they have in being there own "Boss" and the strength of "there" ownership over Hyatt! It's a Beach House owner first talking point when you ask them about being a BH owner, and I've admired that for many years.

And to make my case the owners that run the board and use Beach exclusively, they have through the years made the decisions v.s. the absentee's.. The'll get the 60% needed to advance the board decisions... I have no doubt that if the BH BOD feels its in there interest to leave they will get the votes.. Like I mentioned they rule with a iron fist and over the years Hyatt walks on pin's and needles regarding anything associated with the Beach House. Of all the clubs its their "club bylaws /agreements" in writing that allow them the easiest break from Hyatt/Marriott.

What say you all? Any Beach owner's on here feel free to jump in. "If Sunset leaves the Hyatt family would you vote to leave or stay"?
Best,
Tenga

 

[Kal]

The maintenance fees at HSH over time will also impact decisions. HSH is heading to 30 years old. Funding major replacements such as roof, elevators, A/C and other rounds of upgrades will be very costly. Hyatt has their thumb on the reserve $ and wants it done much sooner than is reasonable, all at the owners expense. Any substantial increase in MF will likely further push the HSH owners to break with Hyatt.

 

[Kal]

Thanks Kal, ya made my point

Sunset goes BH is next and with 1 out of the 3 in Key West gone. What is left will make the bookings all the harder! With 2 out of 3 gone in Key West good luck with that sales center being the major hub of sales for Hyatt/Marriott. Could that be the reason Stephen P Weisz spent so much for Welk??? Is this now the sale focus at KW sales center focus on Welk not KW?? It sure feels to me like taking some of the heat off the sales people trying to tout come to KW enjoy your new TS here!

Over the years every Beach House owner I've met has talked about the pride they have in being there own "Boss" and the strength of "there" ownership over Hyatt! It's a Beach House owner first talking point when you ask them about being a BH owner, and I've admired that for many years.

And to make my case the owners that run the board and use Beach exclusively, they have through the years made the decisions v.s. the absentee's.. The'll get the 60% needed to advance the board decisions... I have no doubt that if the BH BOD feels its in there interest to leave they will get the votes.. Like I mentioned they rule with a iron fist and over the years Hyatt walks on pin's and needles regarding anything associated with the Beach House. Of all the clubs its their "club bylaws /agreements" in writing that allow them the easiest break from Hyatt/Marriott.

What say you all? Any Beach owner's on here feel free to jump in. "If Sunset leaves the Hyatt family would you vote to leave or stay"?
Best,
Tenga

Thinking outside the box. What-if Sunset and the BH combine themselves with a new management firm. I can think of all kinds of positive offers the combined group could provide to the owners and Key West visitors.

 

[GTLINZ]

Thinking outside the box. What-if Sunset and the BH combine themselves with a new management firm. I can think of all kinds of positive offers the combined group could provide to the owners and Key West visitors.

My question now runs around HPP inventory. If HSH (and possibly HBH) did leave Hyatt could the individual boards then ensure that HPP gets no more inventory?

 

[Kal]

My question now runs around HPP inventory. If HSH (and possibly HBH) did leave Hyatt could the individual boards then ensure that HPP gets no more inventory?

The HSH & HBH would be a stand-alone non-Hyatt timeshare property. The owners are free to do anything they desire with their unit. IMHO, the concept of "depositing" their unit into HPP would be like a Disney owner depositing their unit into HPP. The HPP system is not set up to accept non-Hyatt units.

 

[GTLINZ]

The HSH & HBH would be a stand-alone non-Hyatt timeshare property. The owners are free to do anything they desire with their unit. IMHO, the concept of "depositing" their unit into HPP would be like a Disney owner depositing their unit into HPP. The HPP system is not set up to accept non-Hyatt units.

My question centered around inventory continuing to be bought by HPP. Since they already have some inventory (not sure of the numbers) they might be compelled to keep buying until they can get a controlling interest back. That motivation for them would likely be tied to the current percentage of ownership they already have.

 

[RunCat]

My question centered around inventory continuing to be bought by HPP.

Welk Resorts already does this to a small degree. They have been buying excess inventory at a number of resorts and adding it to the Welk System for owners. I see no reason why HPP could not do the same with HSH & HBH resales.

 

[dioxide45]

My question centered around inventory continuing to be bought by HPP. Since they already have some inventory (not sure of the numbers) they might be compelled to keep buying until they can get a controlling interest back. That motivation for them would likely be tied to the current percentage of ownership they already have.

The boards at HSH could pass some type of resolution to prevent new transfers to corporations, LLCs or trusts. Of course that could hurt resale values overall for the weeks currently owned by owners.

 

[RunCat]

The boards at HSH could pass some type of resolution to prevent new transfers to corporations, LLCs or trusts. Of course that could hurt resale values overall for the weeks currently owned by owners.

Could also affect families with estate planning.

 

[Tenga]

Thinking outside the box. What-if Sunset and the BH combine themselves with a new management firm. I can think of all kinds of positive offers the combined group could provide to the owners and Key West visitors.

Kal, you may be on to something and it's a strong possibility about a combine new management firm! Do you see any way, some how that MVC is pulling stings behind the curtain to make this happen???

Second, its no big secret that Marriott Vac Club has for years has been wanting to get into the Key West location. They have so far been unsuccessful. I've forgotten the name of the property they were looking at on the West side of the Key around the Pelican Landing area. It was a former distressed hotel/motel site that was sitting vacant.

IF and this is a biggie here " if " MVC could get HSH and HBH away from under Hyatt management control and rid of the Hyatt Corporate Umbrella on these two resorts forever, could MVC make an offer to both BOD's that would be too good to pass on??

Thoughts??
Best
Tenga

 

[dioxide45]

Kal, you may be on to something and it's a strong possibility about a combine new management firm! Do you see any way, some how that MVC is pulling stings behind the curtain to make this happen???

Second, its no big secret that Marriott Vac Club has for years has been wanting to get into the Key West location. They have so far been unsuccessful. I've forgotten the name of the property they were looking at on the West side of the Key around the Pelican Landing area. It was a former distressed hotel/motel site that was sitting vacant.

IF and this is a biggie here " if " MVC could get HSH and HBH away from under Hyatt management control and rid of the Hyatt Corporate Umbrella on these two resorts forever, could MVC make an offer to both BOD's that would be too good to pass on??

Thoughts??
Best
Tenga

I find it doubtful that the boards would want to align with MVC given that MVC is also owned by the same parent company that owns HRC. Very likely that these two properties would go independant and perhaps find a management company to manage the operations and reservation system. Could be something like VRI, but VRI is again owned by the same parent company that owns HRC. That being Marriott Vacations Worldwide.

 

[dioxide45]

Resort quality will undoubtedly go down if the resorts drop Hyatt. Any time there is a brand name on the door, there are certain standards the resorts have to maintain. When resorts go independant, they often also get cheap. They don't want to do a 5/10 renovation cycle. They would be okay pushing that out to perhaps 8/15 or even longer. They no longer need to worry about keeping a name on the door. I know owners and the board will say now that they want to keep the same quality up, but it rarely happens. They don't want to increase maintenance fees and lower season owners get disgruntled by lower quality for the fees they pay and less flexibility because they can no longer exchange in a network. So you see a loss of lower season owners walking away and additional burden on the high season owners to cover the cost. Add to that the chance that the board doesn't want to increase fees and you will see further deterioration in overall resort quality and maintenance.

 

[Tenga]

Resort quality will undoubtedly go down if the resorts drop Hyatt. Any time there is a brand name on the door, there are certain standards the resorts have to maintain. When resorts go independant, they often also get cheap. They don't want to do a 5/10 renovation cycle. They would be okay pushing that out to perhaps 8/15 or even longer. They no longer need to worry about keeping a name on the door. I know owners and the board will say now that they want to keep the same quality up, but it rarely happens. They don't want to increase maintenance fees and lower season owners get disgruntled by lower quality for the fees they pay and less flexibility because they can no longer exchange in a network. So you see a loss of lower season owners walking away and additional burden on the high season owners to cover the cost. Add to that the chance that the board doesn't want to increase fees and you will see further deterioration in overall resort quality and maintenance.

Hey Diox, I disagree with resort quality statement take a look at independents in the Orlando area just as an example. Same for most other locations, even better example is the Branson area with its independents.

Quality can still be maintained without the fancy sign hanging off the side of the building. But regarding the location's in Key West as "prime site location's "and its high demand for rent's finding it had to fathom KW owner's allowing quality to go down. MF with still cover renovations as needed. Just no longer paying a 10%+ premium due to a brand name hanging off the side of the building. What owner would not jump at MF staying the same or even heaven forbid decrease in some years verses corporate greed and having to maximize shareholder value.

Best,
Tenga

 

[travelhacker]

Hey Diox, I disagree with resort quality statement take a look at independents in the Orlando area just as an example. Same for most other locations, even better example is the Branson area with its independents.

Quality can still be maintained without the fancy sign hanging off the side of the building. But regarding the location's in Key West as "prime site location's "and its high demand for rent's finding it had to fathom KW owner's allowing quality to go down. MF with still cover renovations as needed. Just no longer paying a 10%+ premium due to a brand name hanging off the side of the building. What owner would not jump at MF staying the same or even heaven forbid decrease in some years verses corporate greed and having to maximize shareholder value.

Best,
Tenga

Which independent resorts in Branson and Orlando would you consider high quality?

I genuinely can't think of any.

 

[dioxide45]

Hey Diox, I disagree with resort quality statement take a look at independents in the Orlando area just as an example. Same for most other locations, even better example is the Branson area with its independents.

Quality can still be maintained without the fancy sign hanging off the side of the building. But regarding the location's in Key West as "prime site location's "and its high demand for rent's finding it had to fathom KW owner's allowing quality to go down. MF with still cover renovations as needed. Just no longer paying a 10%+ premium due to a brand name hanging off the side of the building. What owner would not jump at MF staying the same or even heaven forbid decrease in some years verses corporate greed and having to maximize shareholder value.

Best,
Tenga

This is how it starts, and for the first 10 years or so quality is about the same. It just starts to happen as the board and owners don't want to increase fees every year to maintain the same level of quality that the resort would have kept up if it was still under the brand management. The maintenance fee amount today certainly won't pay for the same stuff 10-15 years in the future. The board wants to dump the current management because they don't see the value in it. They then won't see the same value in the current resort quality, so they will start to go cheap on certain things. Will they be clean and comfortable? Sure. But will they be the same quality as a Hyatt, Marriott or Westin. Not likely.

A way to avoid this is to find another resort manager that would be willing to help keep up good quality standards, but then all you are really saving is maybe 10% overall on total fees. The new management company wants to be paid too.

I too would like to hear about these examples of independents in Orlando and Branson that have the same quality level as the Westin, Marriott and Hyatt properties. I often read that Marriott Willow Ridge Lodge in Branson is perhaps the best quality in terms of resort and villas. Is that not the case?

 

[Tenga]

Which independent resorts in Branson and Orlando would you consider high quality?

I genuinely can't think of any.

There are several in both locals but the two that came to mind is Grand Crown Resort in Branson and the Star Island Resort and Club in Orlando.

" Its not the sign on the door that makes it high quality its what the resort has to offer to the traveler ". Point being that independents resorts can still provide high quality with out some big name brand hanging on its side.

Best,
Tenga

 

[RunCat]

Quality can still be maintained without the fancy sign hanging off the side of the building.
...
Best,
Tenga

I agree that quality can be maintained. And to the discerning eye, it will be noticed. To the non-discerning eye, a non-brand name location will usually struggle against a branded name. Hyatt, as a brand, has a certain reputation and value. The Hyatt Timeshares benefit directly from that affiliation; whether it is worth the cost is a different question. As a predominantly Welk owner, with no skin in this discussion, I see value for my ownership being affiliated with the Hyatt brand regardless of how good the Welk resorts are. (And yes, I believe the newer Welk resorts are very good)

 

[Tenga]

This is how it starts, and for the first 10 years or so quality is about the same. It just starts to happen as the board and owners don't want to increase fees every year to maintain the same level of quality that the resort would have kept up if it was still under the brand management. The maintenance fee amount today certainly won't pay for the same stuff 10-15 years in the future. The board wants to dump the current management because they don't see the value in it. They then won't see the same value in the current resort quality, so they will start to go cheap on certain things. Will they be clean and comfortable? Sure. But will they be the same quality as a Hyatt, Marriott or Westin. Not likely.

A way to avoid this is to find another resort manager that would be willing to help keep up good quality standards, but then all you are really saving is maybe 10% overall on total fees. The new management company wants to be paid too.

I too would like to hear about these examples of independents in Orlando and Branson that have the same quality level as the Westin, Marriott and Hyatt properties. I often read that Marriott Willow Ridge Lodge in Branson is perhaps the best quality in terms of resort and villas. Is that not the case?

Can you provide some evidence that back up your statement on the first 10 years? I'd be interested in looking into this. Were did this occur?
Thank you,
Tenga