Biden announces sweeping vaccine mandates affecting millions of workers

[kanerf]

I work for a large federal contractor and we were asked to enter our vaccination details (but not a copy of the form) into a company wide database. No word has come down about people who have not been vaccinated. I knew I would need to be since I often work in government facilities. I wanted the shots anyway since I am in my 60s and have some co-morbidities.

 

[kanerf]

My bet is this gets fast tracked through the courts. Each lower court will uphold the order, so it will remain in force until/unless a lower court rules against the order. Yes it may take a year or two to hit the Supreme Court, but by then it will be a moot point anyway.

I expect they’ll file their cases, but it will all be for show with their voting base. They know the history and know their chances are very low, but you MUST keep your voters happy. To do nothing invites losing the next election. To fight and lose gives you campaign rhetoric

Actually I expect at least on federal judge to file an injunction that will freeze this action from happening for some period of time.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Yes please. Show me your driver's license. Show me your passport. Show me your id to be able to drink. Show me your vaccination records to attend public school. Show me your vaccination records in order to travel to certain countries. If you don't want to show me your papers be prepared to sit at home.

I agree with you about the need to show your papers when you are doing things like driving, flying, drinking alcohol etc. Perhaps those that think that being required to show vaccination records to do things is like being in a Nazi run country should try this. If they are stopped by a police officer while driving they should tell the officer that they are not going to show their driver's license and feel like they are living in a Nazi run country and drive off. As I said before there are consequences for not following the rules and laws. Those that feel that showing papers is so authoritarian and drive off will find out that I was right; there are consequences.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Not to worry, you won't have to obey the recent OSHA "vaccine mandate" rules. (at least that "mandate")

The Wall Street Journal and other newspapers said the governors of many Republican states will immediately file lawsuits to stop the "executive order" requiring vaccinations.
it will be in the court system for years.

Of course you can always get a "religious" exemption if you feel vaccines are too "authoritarian"

I am not worried at all. I have been vaccinated 3 times. I am proud of it. I have my card ready to show. Furthermore, perhaps one of the main benefits of having restrictions on entering faciltiies is that those that are not vaccinated will not be around me so I don't have to keep asking people if they are vaccinated to know who I need to stay away from.

 

[DannyTS]

How do you know? Have you tested yourself regularly? Have you done a recent antibody test to prove your immunity hasn't waned over time? Most importantly, how would an employer or dining establishment know you were safe without a recent test?

BTW...my comments do not pertain to anti-vaxxers who have taken precautions to protect the safety of others, or those who have medical reasons or other limitations to taking the vax. However, this cohort is small as evidenced by the high positivity rates in low-vaxxed locales compared to the lower positivity rates in high-vaxxed areas.

Actually many studies show robust and durable natural immunity. There is a study from Israel that looked at the medical files of 800,000 people and concluded they are 13 times better protected than those vaccinated.

They are mandating the vaccine on people that have strong immunity already, it is divisive and anti-science.

 

[DannyTS]

This is the study I was referring to, there are several others that looked at real life infections and came to the same conclusion.

"Natural immunity is stronger than vaccination, study suggests"

Natural immunity is stronger than vaccination, study suggests

At times this summer, the government has been accused of fighting Covid-19 with an undeclared strategy that concentrates on vaccinating the old while allowing the young to build up herd immunity. The effort that the government has put into persuading young people to have the vaccine suggests...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[nerodog]

I

I only dine outdoors and rarely dine out, or get takeout. My whole family and close friends have either had covid or are vaccinated or both. I work in my own office/cubical and wear a mask when i interact with coworkers. Others can follow my lead if that's possible for their situation. Thanks CalGalTraveler, we are all in this together.
[/QUOTE

I've been searching for outdoor dining in Mass and not finding a whole lot...many places have gone to on inside so I'll be going to the grocery store . So disappointing. It's still warm enough. Many chains also have no available outside dining.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@DannyTS I will take a look at the study. How do you explain people getting Covid twice?

Also, has any government, including Israel which conducted this study, allowed people who had Covid to run an antibody test and then issued a "Vaxxed card"? If not, why not?

 

[Superchief]

How do you explain that to the parents of a normally healthy baby or grade school child who is in an ICU or died because of Covid?



How is protecting children and the immunocompromised through a mandate not nice? Wouldn't have a mandate if anti-vaxxers acted responsibly.

There should probably be two categories:

1) responsible anti-vaxxers
2) irresponsible anti-vaxxers

#2 has ruined it for everyone. Including #1 by giving them a bad name by spreading the virus and forcing the government to take action affecting everyone's freedom and safety.

I agree that many who don't want to get the vaccine are just being rebellious and don't have a valid reason for not getting the Covid 19 vaccine. However, there are many who have legitimate concerns or believe the risks don't justify the benefits. They aren't anti-vaxxers and have had other proven vaccines in their lives. Their concerns are the potential side effects (especially long-term) since these vaccines were rushed through the system, and their manufacturers are protected from lawsuits should problems later develop. If they already had Covid, they should have natural antibodies protecting them.

Most of the people I know who aren't getting the vaccine at this time are younger women who plan to have children. Many of them actually work in the medical field, so they are well educated. Several of their friends and coworkers had side effects from the vaccine that impacted their menstrual cycles. Do you want to condemn them as being selfish because they don't want to risk giving up ever having children?

The problem with mandates is they don't take into consideration individual situations or health conditions.

 

[DrQ]

I'm not sure history is on the side of what the current administration is attempting to do here. My current understanding is that there is past legal precedence for states (as well as cities/counties) to exercise broad authority for public health reasons. States have broad public health authority especially when SOEs are in effect. So at a non-federal level, states/cities/counties have successfully mandated vaccination protocols in the interests of public health during past pandemics. That said, there is not much of any past legal precedence for any mandates at the federal level - which is likely why the current administration did what they did - attempting to enforce vaccination protocols indirectly via employer mandates through rules written by agencies like OSHA for example. Federal level mandates are likely to be tested in the courts quickly as a result. I suspect at a federal level there's a fairly good chance such mandates will not withstand legal challenges.

Actually, the Supreme Court has ruled on this:

The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates

In 1905, the high court made a fateful ruling with eerie parallels to today: One person’s liberty can’t trump everyone else’s.

www.politico.com

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Superchief good points. Unfortunately these women are trying to square a circle - especially since they are in the medical field and may be exposing patients (and themselves!) They either need to a) take a break from their frontline job until this is over b) get tested regularly or c) get vaxxed. Maybe testing regularly (which is in the mandate) is not so bad a choice if they want/need to continue working. There are plenty of doctors and nurses who are needed for telehealth too.

 

[DannyTS]

@DannyTS I will take a look at the study. How do you explain people getting Covid twice?

Also, has any government, including Israel allowed people who had Covid previuosly to run an antibody test and then have a "Vaxxed card" issued? If not, why not?

The study showed that the natural immunity is 13 times better than the acquired immunity but not zero so you will have some random cases but still less than the breakthrough infections. The story with the antibodies is obviously not complete , the natural immunity includes a number of tools like the T cells. Both studies, from Israel and UK, look at the real life cases and they include the Delta variant.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@DannyTS Interesting information. If there is a strong science and a way to validate a post-covid immunity level, I could envision governments creating a "vax card" for these cases. It sounds like the measurements are not there yet. And the governments are trying to deal with the larger populations.

 

[LMD]

I work in healthcare and am 100% for the vaccine however I do not believe in mandates.
Masking and weekly testing should be the alternative.
People should not be losing their jobs over it especially healthcare workers.

 

[MrockStar]

I

maybe the Cape has some. Hope you find some, check out food trucks also.

 

[chellej]

So wa state required us to get vaccinated (state workers) Since I already was vaccinated...no big deal but do not like being mandated. We had to make a zoom appointment with HR to show them our vaccination card. I asked why they couldn't just look it up in the state vaccine database and she said they couldn't because of privacy issues...they had to be given permission....so they can MANDATE that I get the vaccine but cannot access the record without my permission..... Its just nuts

 

[DannyTS]

Actually, the Supreme Court has ruled on this:

The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates

In 1905, the high court made a fateful ruling with eerie parallels to today: One person’s liberty can’t trump everyone else’s.

www.politico.com

Articles like that do not make it clear that there is a distinction between state and federal orders. . States do have that right and the supreme court confirmed it, the article is correct. But when you have the federal government mandating vaccines and several states banning such orders, it is a different ball game. We will see how it plays out in the courts.

 

[Brett]

@Superchief good points. Unfortunately these women are trying to square a circle - especially since they are in the medical field and may be exposing patients (and themselves!) They either need to a) take a break from their frontline job until this is over b) get tested regularly or c) get vaxxed. Maybe testing regularly (which is in the mandate) is not so bad a choice if they want/need to continue working. There are plenty of doctors and nurses who are needed for telehealth too.

yes

 

[DannyTS]

@DannyTS Interesting information. If there is a strong science and a way to validate a post-covid immunity level, I could envision governments creating a "vax card" for these cases. It sounds like the measurements are not there yet. And the governments are trying to deal with the larger populations.

If we know about these studies, they know it too. Even the former FDA director, who is now on the board of Pfizer said that the natural immunity is robust and long lasting, and he said it should be incorporated in public health policy. The fact that it is not happening is one more piece in the puzzle to show that this is NOT about public health.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Or perhaps they have their hands full trying to implement higher priorities with larger populations and will get to this later. What is curious is that no government has stepped forward to implement such a program.

 

[Brett]

If we know about these studies, they know it too. Even the former FDA director, who is now on the board of Pfizer said that the natural immunity is robust and long lasting, and he said it should be incorporated in public health policy. The fact that it is not happening is one more piece in the puzzle to show that this is NOT about public health.

The mysterious "studies"




Unvaccinated people were 11 times more likely to die of covid-19, CDC report finds

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/10/moderna-most-effective-covid-vaccine-studies/

 

[Superchief]

I find it interesting that members of Congress and staff are exempt from these mandates!

[Upon reflection, I reinstated this post - we'll see where it goes.]

 

[DannyTS]

Or perhaps they have their hands full trying to implement higher priorities with larger populations and will get to this later. What is curious is that no government has stepped forward to implement such a program.

They will never get to this. As I said, they have ignored study after study about the natural immunity. How can you ignore millions, maybe tens of millions of people who have natural immunity and that are not vaccinated? We are not talking about few hundreds or few thousands.

 

[Brett]

They will never get to this. As I said, they have ignored study after study about the natural immunity. How can you ignore millions, maybe tens of millions of people who have natural immunity and that are not vaccinated? We are not talking about few hundreds or few thousands.

like those with "natural immunity" for polio, measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox. HIV Hepatitis HPV

To attend private or public schools
"All 50 states mandate vaccines that protect against polio, measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox."

 

[MrockStar]

I asked an intelligent person I know who is active in many charities why they are not vaccinated. I was told to just read Revelation 18:23. I finally asked why does this matter. It does matter to those that take this verse literally I guess.

This is the verse.

Revelation 18:23, KJV: "And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."

The explanation is that the word ‘sorceries’ in Greek is ‘pharmakeia’ which describes medication from a pharmacist. "By thy sorceries were all nations deceived" means that in the end times the world is deceived by the people holding power through pharmaceutical means.

This is just part of the why this group wants a religious exemption from the covid vaccine. I did bring up that other Christian religions are in favor of the vaccine and that is an entirely different story that I didn't feel like participating in.

Anyway, I get it . Some people have religious convictions that they are not willing to compromise. To me, there are many things that need compromise to move forward. I wonder how many will quit their jobs because of the mandate.

Bill

Thanks Bill, I will read this and research that verse and the Greek word.