Hospitality pay and how it brought my thoughts around to tipping.....

[Talent312]

Occasionally, when signing a CC slip at a doctor or dental office, I say:
"There should be a line for a tip."
If they ask who would get it, I say: "Why you of course." They smile.
------------------------
But with my Medicare+Medigap coverage, I don't see CC slips there anymore.
,

 

[HenryT]

President Biden signed an Executive Order requiring federal contractors to pay a $15 minimum wage to all workers who are working on federal contracts effective January 2022. This applies to all positions.

This doesn't directly impact state minimum wage laws but it could help to drive up wages at the state level for those states with min wages less than $15.

 

[Ty1on]

in my state, pay is more than some of these jobs. Minimum wage is $13.50 but easy to find $15 at coffee shops. Plus tips.

I'm sure you'll find the OP resort positions are likewise paid higher in your state.

 

[easyrider]

Well have you been to Oklahoma?

Well they tell me I was born there, but I really don't remember...........

Bill

 

[easyrider]

Really, minimum wage should be somewhere around $25 an hour and be tied to the a productivity equation of an amount of work that creates an amount of wealth. In Sun River Oregon some housekeepers at good resorts get $25 an hour. I do understand profit but I don't get why profit comes at the expense of workers.

Now that there is a shortage of workers in many companies, these companies are paying more to retain and recruit. It won't be the Fed but economics that drive higher wages, imo.

Bill

 

[dioxide45]

Now that there is a shortage of workers in many companies, these companies are paying more to retain and recruit. It won't be the Fed but economics that drive higher wages, imo.

Then we don't really need a minimum wage at all. What does a $25 minimum wage do? It probably drives a certain number of people to a $0 wage when they are laid off in favor of automation or other ways to reduce labor costs.

 

[easyrider]

Then we don't really need a minimum wage at all. What does a $25 minimum wage do? It probably drives a certain number of people to a $0 wage when they are laid off in favor of automation or other ways to reduce labor costs.

I think we do need a higher Federally mandated minimum wage. Automation should increase productivity and wages. Certainly automation would mean a shift in jobs but not so much a decrease as many think. Automation creates an entirely new industry. CPU's are an example of technology that has increased productivity and created an entirely new industry that employees many.

Higher wages would provide more funding for many programs including programs that could provide education or training. A couple earning $25 per hour would be making just over $100,000 per year collectively. Their tax load would be about $22,000 collectively before deductions.

The Federal minimum at $7.25 is absurd, imo. A couple making $7.25 earns about $30,000 collectively. They would pay about $3000 in taxes collectively but would also qualify for many subsidies that would actually pay for their taxes in a way.

Bill

 

[Ty1on]

Then we don't really need a minimum wage at all. What does a $25 minimum wage do? It probably drives a certain number of people to a $0 wage when they are laid off in favor of automation or other ways to reduce labor costs.

Now you're singing my song.

 

[Ty1on]

I think we do need a higher Federally mandated minimum wage. Automation should increase productivity and wages. Certainly automation would mean a shift in jobs but not so much a decrease as many think. Automation creates an entirely new industry. CPU's are an example of technology that has increased productivity and created an entirely new industry that employees many.

Higher wages would provide more funding for many programs including programs that could provide education or training. A couple earning $25 per hour would be making just over $100,000 per year collectively. Their tax load would be about $22,000 collectively before deductions.

The Federal minimum at $7.25 is absurd, imo. A couple making $7.25 earns about $30,000 collectively. They would pay about $3000 in taxes collectively but would also qualify for many subsidies that would actually pay for their taxes in a way.

Bill

Raising the minimum wage would raise the entire economic tide. Unemployment goes up, cost of goods, services, and property increase with the money supply, and at the end, that minimum wage couple is exactly where they started in terms of spending power, if they are still employed. Meanwhile, workforces in countries with lower wages become ever more competitive against US manufacture.

 

[am1]

I pay farm hands $20 or $25 a day depending on if it includes food. Cash money which is not an issue here but no holidays or sick days. 5:50 am - 1:30pm. Hard work in the hot sun. Being a foreigner I pay too much. I make 0 profit but am improving my land and maintaining it.

 

[geist1223]

Eventually $15 per hour will become the new poverty level and a Burger King will cost $10.

 

[dioxide45]

I think we do need a higher Federally mandated minimum wage. Automation should increase productivity and wages. Certainly automation would mean a shift in jobs but not so much a decrease as many think. Automation creates an entirely new industry. CPU's are an example of technology that has increased productivity and created an entirely new industry that employees many.

Higher wages would provide more funding for many programs including programs that could provide education or training. A couple earning $25 per hour would be making just over $100,000 per year collectively. Their tax load would be about $22,000 collectively before deductions.

The Federal minimum at $7.25 is absurd, imo. A couple making $7.25 earns about $30,000 collectively. They would pay about $3000 in taxes collectively but would also qualify for many subsidies that would actually pay for their taxes in a way.

Bill

I suspect a couple that only earns $30K a year probably pays zero, or close to zero, federal income tax. The standard deduction was close to $25K in 2020. So their AGI would be very low. If they have children they likely receive a number of refundable tax credits. Meaning they probably get a larger tax refund than they had deducted in taxes.

I think the issue here is that people seem to expect low skill introductory jobs to be a career and thus should earn a living wage. However "living wage" is defined. That wasn't really the intention. Should you expect to work at McDonalds your entire life (unless you have management aspirations)? Outside of the current labor issues, what incentive does an employer have to hire a teenager wanting to get employment skills when they can instead hire an adult for the same price? That adult is likely to be more dependable and easier to schedule than a kid still in high school. Increasing minimum wage pushes even lower level workers out of the workforce. The true minimum wage is $0 when you have a mandatory minimum wage. Also, as previously mentioned, mandating higher wages puts the US at a competitive disadvantage globally. While automation may create other jobs, it certainly doesn't create enough to cover the losses in the lower level jobs, or companies wouldn't do it. Why create automation that isn't going to save you money because you are paying engeneers and programmers more to come up with the automation.

 

[easyrider]

Raising the minimum wage would raise the entire economic tide. Unemployment goes up, cost of goods, services, and property increase with the money supply, and at the end, that minimum wage couple is exactly where they started in terms of spending power, if they are still employed. Meanwhile, workforces in countries with lower wages become ever more competitive against US manufacture.

Maybe but I doubt it. ....... When the minimum wage increases to a living wage there is a higher amount of taxes being paid and a lower number of people needing assistance. Currently, many people would rather be on assistance than working low pay jobs. Taxpayers subsidize low wages so it seems like higher wages create a situation with less taxpayer cost , a wealthier population and happier workers.

It is a different situation in different areas but in our area there isn't enough people to work low wage jobs. Companies are noticing this and have increased the pay and it seems like the amount that gets people interested in low skill work is at least $15 per hour but many companies wanting to retain workers are paying over $21 per hour starting.

The bottom line is the economy is driven by consumers and those are people that receive a livable wage.

Bill

 

[dioxide45]

Maybe but I doubt it. ....... When the minimum wage increases to a living wage there is a higher amount of taxes being paid and a lower number of people needing assistance. Currently, many people would rather be on assistance than working low pay jobs. Taxpayers subsidize low wages so it seems like higher wages create a situation with less taxpayer cost , a wealthier population and happier workers.

It is a different situation in different areas but in our area there isn't enough people to work low wage jobs. Companies are noticing this and have increased the pay and it seems like the amount that gets people interested in low skill work is at least $15 per hour but many companies wanting to retain workers are paying over $21 per hour starting.

The bottom line is the economy is driven by consumers and those are people that receive a livable wage.

Bill

So if they are already paying higher than minimum wage, why do we need a higher mandated minimum wage?

Can you also define a "living wage". As wages go up, so do consumer costs, thus living costs are higher and "living wage" would have to be higher. The problem is that no one can ever define a "living wage".

 

[Ty1on]

So if they are already paying higher than minimum wage, why do we need a higher mandated minimum wage?

Can you also define a "living wage". As wages go up, so do consumer costs, thus living costs are higher and "living wage" would have to be higher. The problem is that no one can ever define a "living wage".

You bring up a very good point. minimum wage should be a safety net, lower than most jobs pay. Right now, the $7-odd minimum wage IS low and is overridden with higher minimums in most states. I could see moving the minimum up to like $10, say, which would help the very bottom earners without forcing major industries to completely change the economy. As offered wages rise over time, the minimum should be adjusted to make sure the most vulnerable are not losing pace.

 

[easyrider]

I suspect a couple that only earns $30K a year probably pays zero, or close to zero, federal income tax. The standard deduction was close to $25K in 2020. So their AGI would be very low. If they have children they likely receive a number of refundable tax credits. Meaning they probably get a larger tax refund than they had deducted in taxes.

I think the issue here is that people seem to expect low skill introductory jobs to be a career and thus should earn a living wage. However "living wage" is defined. That wasn't really the intention. Should you expect to work at McDonalds your entire life (unless you have management aspirations)? Outside of the current labor issues, what incentive does an employer have to hire a teenager wanting to get employment skills when they can instead hire an adult for the same price? That adult is likely to be more dependable and easier to schedule than a kid still in high school. Increasing minimum wage pushes even lower level workers out of the workforce. The true minimum wage is $0 when you have a mandatory minimum wage. Also, as previously mentioned, mandating higher wages puts the US at a competitive disadvantage globally. While automation may create other jobs, it certainly doesn't create enough to cover the losses in the lower level jobs, or companies wouldn't do it. Why create automation that isn't going to save you money because you are paying engeneers and programmers more to come up with the automation.

I started working at a very young age. I was allowed to drive heavy equipment, use power tools and so many things that are prohibited by todays labor laws. Now days, an underaged worker is not allowed to do many tasks or work a full day. This is why many employers favor hiring adults.

What I see in our area is farm work automations have decreased the amount of workers needed to produce a product but the farms are still all short on workers. With automation construction companies are still short of qualified workers. With automation many trucking companies need more workers. With alot of automation some of our area manufacturers have huge signs up with a starting pay of $22 per hour + benefits so they need more workers. All of our area big stores are automated in some way and all are needing more workers.

My point is I'm not actually seeing automation as a job killer in real life.

Bill

 

[dioxide45]

You bring up a very good point. minimum wage should be a safety net, lower than most jobs pay. Right now, the $7-odd minimum wage IS low and is overridden with higher minimums in most states. I could see moving the minimum up to like $10, say, which would help the very bottom earners without forcing major industries to completely change the economy. As offered wages rise over time, the minimum should be adjusted to make sure the most vulnerable are not losing pace.

Again though, any increase in minimum wage will push people to the ultimate minimum wage of $0/hour as companies will look to reduce labor costs. Perhaps they make remaining employees work harder, or they reduce the customer experience (longer wait times, more errors in orders). Someone is going to lose out. Companies like Goodwill already pay certain employees less than the federal minimum wage because of certain laws around disabled workers. Remove those laws and what happens? Goodwill just hires non-disabled workers to do the work instead and the disabled worker no longer has the job.

 

[easyrider]

So if they are already paying higher than minimum wage, why do we need a higher mandated minimum wage?

Can you also define a "living wage". As wages go up, so do consumer costs, thus living costs are higher and "living wage" would have to be higher. The problem is that no one can ever define a "living wage".

Yes, I can. A living wage is a wage high enough to pay your bills and support your self and family without being subsidized by taxpayers.

Bill

any increase in minimum wage will push people to the ultimate minimum wage of $0/hour

No one would work for nothing, lol. Come on man, you know that.

Bill

 

[dioxide45]

My point is I'm not actually seeing automation as a job killer in real life.

This will depend on the industry. Certainly in things like farming, automation has helped them to be able to produce more product with the same level of staff. In the pasty, they had manual pickers, now they have automated pickers, fertilizers and pesticides that allow them to have higher yields per acre. In something like fast food, you only have a finite number of customers. Of course as populations grow, you have more customers but when you start having the customer input their order on an app or touch screen, you don't need as many cashiers. I have already seen this at Walmart. Nearly the entire checkout section is all self checkout. There might be four staffed checkout lines total. There are probably 40 self checkout lines staffed by four people total. They can of course redistribute staff that previously worked checkout to other jobs in the store to make the store more productive, but I don't really see that happening.

 

[dioxide45]

Yes, I can. A living wage is a wage high enough to pay your bills and support your self and family without being subsidized by taxpayers.

Bill

What job isn't somewhat subsidized by taxpayers though. Perhaps it is the subsidies that are the problem and not the wages?

No one would work for nothing, lol. Come on man, you know that.

Bill

No they aren't working, because they were laid off and are unemployed. It wasn't by choice.

 

[nerodog]

Raising the minimum wage would raise the entire economic tide. Unemployment goes up, cost of goods, services, and property increase with the money supply, and at the end, that minimum wage couple is exactly where they started in terms of spending power, if they are still employed. Meanwhile, workforces in countries with lower wages become ever more competitive against US manufacture.

And think about all the professional people who will say they need a raise as well!! If someone receives a minimum wage of $ 25, someone with a college degree will want $ 40!

 

[Ty1on]

And think about all the professional people who will say they need a raise as well!! If someone receives a minimum wage of $ 25, someone with a college degree will want $ 40!

That's exactly the point! Why is a teacher or a newly graduated accountant going to use their degree for $25 per hour when they can make that standing around Target?

 

[easyrider]

That's exactly the point! Why is a teacher or a newly graduated accountant going to use their degree for $25 per hour when they can make that standing around Target?

The quality of the job makes a huge difference. With the education a person can often acquire a higher quality job than those without an education.

Bill

 

[Rolltydr]

Yes, I can. A living wage is a wage high enough to pay your bills and support your self and family without being subsidized by taxpayers.

Bill


No one would work for nothing, lol. Come on man, you know that.

Bill

I agree with you completely. I usually try to say the minimum wage should be slightly above whatever is defined as the poverty level at any given time. Why should a person have to work a full time job that doesn’t even lift them out of poverty? What’s the point? Anyone can live in poverty without working. If they’re giving their time and effort for 40 hours a week supporting someone else’s business, they should be compensated above the poverty level for that.

 

[Ty1on]

The quality of the job makes a huge difference. With the education a person can often acquire a higher quality job than those without an education.

Bill

Yep, and demand higher pay. This ripple effect pushes salaries and wages up from the new minimum wage. Again, the end result is that minimum wagers are exactly where they always were in the living wage spectrum.