Talk me out of buying Westin Kaanapali (or not)

[HHDutchy]

I’m currently at the Westin kaanapali. It’s our favorite. We have an OF for 10 days. It’s incredible.

I‘ve considered buying here for some time. I went to the owner update today and it got me thinking again. I’ve outlined what I own, what was offered, and then my questions are at the end.

What I currently own:
Westin Aventuras - 44000 SO - $800 annual (developer)
Westin Kierland - 37000 SO - $700 annual (resale)

What was offered:
Buyback Aventuras for $16000
Retro my Kierland
2bd - OV - every other year - $21000 after 20% COVID discount
Regular price was $42k for OV and $49k for OF btw

Our response: Declined the offer!

Offered vacation package:
5 nights in 2bed Nanea (resort view) + 100000 Bonvoy - $2100

Our response: interested, let me get back to you within 24 hours.

This got me thinking if I’m willing to spend $2k to come to Nanea, why not “invest“ that into a resale unit at the North property?


What I would want:
2 bedroom unit
- Would consider renting out the Studio to help cover annual fees
- Would consider splitting the unit to use 1 bed with kids one year; studio with just the wife the other year.
Every other year: don’t want to commit to HI every year but technically could make every year happen with the scenario above
OV or OF
North preferred (I think)


Sell (or basically giveaway) Kierland to reduce annual maintenance fee burden.
Keep Aventuras - 44000 SO or trade in iI once on a while

My questions:
Is $2k reasonable expected rental income for the Studio OF? How about OV?
How are the OV units in the South?
What building numbers are considered OV at the North property?
Listings show a wider range for maintain ace fees for 2bed - $1240 to over $1500 - why?
Find a 2bed with lowest possible fees with the view I’m after, right?
OF - $10-13k. Does that seem reasonable? Could I offer less and possibly get it?
OV - $7500-10k. Does that seem reasonable?

How could the Marriot merger devalue this purchase?
In my view the merger could strip mandatory status (or limit resales in some other screwy way) in the future, so possibly best to purchase now? I don’t see much of a downside.

If I was interested in spending $2k to come to Nanea for 5 nights, why not go all in and buy a resale?


I’m somewhat new to resales and timesharing; consequently, I have greatly valued reading through this forum. Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

[Henry M.]

I own at WKORV, both North and the original property (aka South). I love it here.

i would rather buy a resale unit at either property than Nanea. Nanea is a voluntary property and will lose a lot of value if purchased from the developer. Voluntary means that whoever buys it resale can't exchange into resorts that are not part of the Flex program Nanea is in. I've lost track of which resorts are included.

Nanea does not have lock offs. They also have a limited number of 1BR units so you end up either using a 2BR or exchanging into the other properties next door. Might as well own in one of them to begin with.

Maintenance fees for most units in the South property are currently around $2445/yr for every year usage. North costs $2737/yr. it is about half that for EOY ownership. They tend to go up a few percent every year.

Maintenance fees are based on square footage and specific property. There are some corner OF units in the South property that are a bit larger and have larger maintenance fees.

i like both North and South. The advantage of North is that both the Studio and 1BR have la AIS (balconies). The Studios in South only have a railing outside a sliding glass door (a Juliette balcony). This is no big deal when using the 2BR, but using the Studio alone is better in the North property. The South 1BR are slightly larger than at North, and they also have standalone 1BR. North has the Pailolo bar that I like better than Auntie's in the South property. South has better snorkeling right in front of it, and the beaches just south of the park are nicer to bathe in because the reef ends right around the park. North is closer to Dukes and the Times Market.

All in all, both are great. I tend to prefer North these days, but if I had small children, the slide and pool in South might be better. You won't go wrong with either one.
i haven't priced anything lately, but a couple of years ago, OV was somewhere around the mid teens and OF was in the high teens or low $20's for every year ownership. Half of that for EOY.

Rental income depends from the view but is less than $2k for a Studio, a little over for the 1BR for OV. It is a bit under $4k for a 2BR unit. You might be able to find renters for a little more if you work hard at it, but I wouldn't count on it. Look at redweek.com or https://www.denisetravels.com/westinmaui.htm. Prices are pretty depressed near term, because of COVID.

 

[vacationtime1]

I own at WKORV, both North and the original property (aka South). I love it here.

i would rather buy a resale unit at either property than Nanea. Nanea is a voluntary property and will lose a lot of value if purchased from the developer. Voluntary means that whoever buys it resale can't exchange into resorts that are not part of the Flex program Nanea is in. I've lost track of which resorts are included.

Nanea does not have lock offs. They also have a limited number of 1BR units so you end up either using a 2BR or exchanging into the other properties next door. Might as well own in one of them to begin with.

Maintenance fees for most units in the South property are currently around $2445/yr for every year usage. North costs $2737/yr. it is about half that for EOY ownership. They tend to go up a few percent every year.

Maintenance fees are based on square footage and specific property. There are some corner OF units in the South property that are a bit larger and have larger maintenance fees.

i like both North and South. The advantage of North is that both the Studio and 1BR have la AIS (balconies). The Studios in South only have a railing outside a sliding glass door (a Juliette balcony). This is no big deal when using the 2BR, but using the Studio alone is better in the North property. The South 1BR are slightly larger than at North, and they also have standalone 1BR. North has the Pailolo bar that I like better than Auntie's in the South property. South has better snorkeling right in front of it, and the beaches just south of the park are nicer to bathe in because the reef ends right around the park. North is closer to Dukes and the Times Market.

All in all, both are great. I tend to prefer North these days, but if I had small children, the slide and pool in South might be better. You won't go wrong with either one.
i haven't priced anything lately, but a couple of years ago, OV was somewhere around the mid teens and OF was in the high teens or low $20's for every year ownership. Half of that for EOY.

Rental income depends from the view but is less than $2k for a Studio, a little over for the 1BR for OV. It is a bit under $4k for a 2BR unit. You might be able to find renters for a little more if you work hard at it, but I wouldn't count on it. Look at redweek.com or https://www.denisetravels.com/westinmaui.htm. Prices are pretty depressed near term, because of COVID.

^^^^^ This is excellent advice.

My suggestion is that OP should think about buying eoy OF at WKORVN, resale of course. OP is already spoiled on the oceanfront view (I own OF and understand exactly why). OF at North is much less expensive than OF at South and there are many more eoy OF's at North.

 

[HHDutchy]

^^^^^ This is excellent advice.

My suggestion is that OP should think about buying eoy OF at WKORVN, resale of course. OP is already spoiled on the oceanfront view (I own OF and understand exactly why). OF at North is much less expensive than OF at South and there are many more eoy OF's at North.

Thanks for your feedback.

Spoiled on OF for sure and 6th floor.

 

[zentraveler]

OF at North is much less expensive than OF at South (and there are many more eoy OF's at North).

I don't want to hijack this thread in any way since HHDutchy so eloquently and specifically posted his question ( this is related), but why is OF North much less expensive that OF South? There seem to be more OF units in North and having stayed there in the past (we do not own there although there now) am very curious as to why it would be less desirable (i.e. less expensive).

 

[HHDutchy]

I don't want to hijack this thread in any way since HHDutchy so eloquently and specifically posted his question ( this is related), but why is OF North much less expensive that OF South? There seem to be more OF units in North and having stayed there in the past (we do not own there although there now) am very curious as to why it would be less desirable (i.e. less expensive).

I‘m interested to hear as well. I suspect because those end units in the South are super close to the ocean. Our current unit is OF (building 5) but it is a ways from the ocean. I also believe the units are larger there. Waiting for experts to chime in.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

There are some 'bad' OF units at WKORVN e.g. low floors building 5 behind the bar but no 'bad' OF at WKORV as all are truly OF. As for studio rental I'd say $2K is extremely ambitious and I'd go as far as to say don't bank on being able to rent a studio, it's very hit and miss even in peak weeks.

 

[TravelTime]

I would not recommend buying. I am a WKOVRN owner with oceanfront view. Why pay so much in upfront costs when you can have the flexibility of staying wherever you want for the same price without handing over tens of thousands upfront.

 

[rcv82]

The Oceanfront units at South both directly face the ocean and are very close with no structures in between. The units are larger, and the “deluxe” corner units are huge and have windows on the side as well as directly facing the ocean. All units, including the studios, have large lanais (unlike most other studios at South). The one bedroom lanai stretches across both the living and bedroom portion, looking directly out at the ocean. In contrast the OF at north are basically standard units and most are not as close to the ocean.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Henry M.]

I've been coming for 22 years (before my first timeshare), and I actually spend little time in the room. I have used the pool perhaps 5 times in all these years. I prefer to be at the actual ocean front (the beach) and swim in the ocean when I want to be in the water. We also prefer to walk to the beach to watch sunsets than to do it from the room.

I own ocean view in the South property, but island view at North. I have liked the few upgrades I've had to OF, but during certain times of the year, the sun beats pretty hard on the lanai. Once we even closed the curtains inside the room.

 

[DeniseM]

There is no valid reason to buy from the developer. Buy resale.

 

[HHDutchy]

There is no valid reason to buy from the developer. Buy resale.

Yes, I agree 100%.

Denise, what’s your opinion on renting out the studio in the North property?
I wouldn’t count on it, but how much $$$ and how realistic is it?

 

[DeniseM]

Demand for the studios is much lower than the demand for the one and two bedrooms. You might be able to rent it for enough to cover 40% of your maintenance fee. You will have the best luck with an OF or OV studio.

 

[jdm4300]

We own several weeks OV at the south. I always rent the studios and consistently get $2,400 to $2,750 per week for them. I never list them on Redweek as the listings there are too cheap.

 

[Rman]

where would you recommend renting , I use red week sometimes but last year nothing happened, hoping to recoup some money as maintenance fees still have to be paid etc..

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

We own several weeks OV at the south. I always rent the studios and consistently get $2,400 to $2,750 per week for them. I never list them on Redweek as the listings there are too cheap.

So is where you do list them a secret as it seems you've found a place where people are willing to pay more than 50% above the market rate?

 

[controller1]

We own several weeks OV at the south. I always rent the studios and consistently get $2,400 to $2,750 per week for them. I never list them on Redweek as the listings there are too cheap.

So is where you do list them a secret as it seems you've found a place where people are willing to pay more than 50% above the market rate?

That depends on what you describe as "market rate"? It appears @jdm4300 is renting to people who would regularly use a hotel website for their reservations as $2,400 - $2,750 per week for an OV studio is a better rate than anytime during the year on Marriott.com at WKORV. So @jdm4300 let us in on your secret . . . where do you list the rentals?

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

That depends on what you describe as "market rate"? It appears @jdm4300 is renting to people who would regularly use a hotel website for their reservations as $2,400 - $2,750 per week for an OV studio is a better rate than anytime during the year on Marriott.com at WKORV. So @jdm4300 let us in on your secret . . . where do you list the rentals?

To me market rate is what I could rent it for through any of the common TS listings e.g. here, Redweek, VRBO...etc. and not through the Westin direct or through Expedia etc. I guess there's always some variability, especially with the current 'climate'. I currently see OF Studios at WKORVN for President's Day week listed for as low as $1,000 and as high as $3,250. I know which one I'd go for if I was in the market for a rental.

 

[jdm4300]

Vacation Candy

 

[vacationtime1]

Vacation Candy

Vacation Candy is re-renting it, probably for over $3,000! Of course they aren't interested in renting units for more than market price unless and until they already have a customer and need the unit. But when it works, it's great. The highest price I ever received for renting one of my Kierland units was through StayPC, a similar company.

 

[Venter]

I wonder how many of the low priced ones are ligitimate. Meaning that the lower priced ones may be a Staroptions booking which as I understand it is technically not allowed to be rented out. Just wondering because it makes more sense if MFs per point is less if owned elsewhere.

 

[Grandma2016]

We have used VRBO and Redweek. VRBO has worked well for our week 52 units but not much other than that week. Redweek seems to work for my event and non event weeks. I would not buy from developer. Buy on secondary marked. SYED from Advantage Vacations is wonderful with resale. Wish i would have known about resale earlier. My favorite resort is our OF corner at South. If i had to stay in studio non OF i would chose North because of the lanai. They are both great resorts. I have never had issues renting anything we can't use.

 

[Lanabanana]

I own at WKORV, both North and the original property (aka South). I love it here.

i would rather buy a resale unit at either property than Nanea. Nanea is a voluntary property and will lose a lot of value if purchased from the developer. Voluntary means that whoever buys it resale can't exchange into resorts that are not part of the Flex program Nanea is in. I've lost track of which resorts are included.

Nanea does not have lock offs. They also have a limited number of 1BR units so you end up either using a 2BR or exchanging into the other properties next door. Might as well own in one of them to begin with.

Maintenance fees for most units in the South property are currently around $2445/yr for every year usage. North costs $2737/yr. it is about half that for EOY ownership. They tend to go up a few percent every year.

Maintenance fees are based on square footage and specific property. There are some corner OF units in the South property that are a bit larger and have larger maintenance fees.

i like both North and South. The advantage of North is that both the Studio and 1BR have la AIS (balconies). The Studios in South only have a railing outside a sliding glass door (a Juliette balcony). This is no big deal when using the 2BR, but using the Studio alone is better in the North property. The South 1BR are slightly larger than at North, and they also have standalone 1BR. North has the Pailolo bar that I like better than Auntie's in the South property. South has better snorkeling right in front of it, and the beaches just south of the park are nicer to bathe in because the reef ends right around the park. North is closer to Dukes and the Times Market.

All in all, both are great. I tend to prefer North these days, but if I had small children, the slide and pool in South might be better. You won't go wrong with either one.
i haven't priced anything lately, but a couple of years ago, OV was somewhere around the mid teens and OF was in the high teens or low $20's for every year ownership. Half of that for EOY.

Rental income depends from the view but is less than $2k for a Studio, a little over for the 1BR for OV. It is a bit under $4k for a 2BR unit. You might be able to find renters for a little more if you work hard at it, but I wouldn't count on it. Look at redweek.com or https://www.denisetravels.com/westinmaui.htm. Prices are pretty depressed near term, because of COVID.

Can you please share where you are finding the resale prices. We purchased OV south last year 2bd every year for $17500. That was after we got in contract and had a buy back for $15500. I want to buy another south, preferably OF but having a hard time finding one for a reasonable price (i dont want deluxe)

 

[Henry M.]

I just Google "Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas for sale" and see what comes up. For example https://www.premiertimeshareresale.com/the-westin-kaanapali-ocean-resort-villas-timeshare-resale (I don't know this seller!). As you got through the links you can find deals in the mid teens.

i understand Vistana has gotten more aggressive with their buybacks lately, as your experience with them taking a unit for $15,500 shows. I guess even if you find a great deal, it might not make it through ROFR. A relative bought South EY OV for $12,500 3 or 4 years ago and it was not taken by Vistana. Perhaps they would take it today. They need the deeds for their flex program. Otherwise those that buy into that won't find availability when they want to reserve something.

 

[DJmonkey]

We own several weeks OV at the south. I always rent the studios and consistently get $2,400 to $2,750 per week for them. I never list them on Redweek as the listings there are too cheap.

Where do you list?