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How are TX Tuggers making out?

DrQ

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I've not read much about the details of the history of power generation in Texas, but the little I've read makes me wonder if it's now time for Texas to require power utilities to winterize their infrastructure. If they don't, this will likely happen again. And yes, this will certainly increase your (relatively) inexpensive electrical costs. Those of you who live in Texas, do you agree this should be done now?
The more that is coming out, it looks like most DR plans with which I've worked - look great on paper but aren't worth a crap.

In 2011, the shortfalls were identified and supposedly addressed. The glaring flaw in the disaster of a plan was to declare natural gas production as critical. Texas version of Chernobyl. Disjointed view of a complex system.
 

Ken555

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The more that is coming out, it looks like most DR plans with which I've worked - look great on paper but aren't worth a crap.

In 2011, the shortfalls were identified and supposedly addressed. The glaring flaw in the disaster of a plan was to declare natural gas production as critical. Texas version of Chernobyl. Disjointed view of a complex system.

Well, as others have pointed out, if windmills (and more) work in winter climates, it can work in Texas, too.
 

jehb2

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We now have running water but we still have to boil it. I know we’re fine but part of me doesn’t want to pull the plug (literally) on the on the water in the bathtubs.
 

DrQ

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This is the bellwether case:
Panda sued ERCOT in 2016, alleging fraud, negligent misrepresentation and breach of fiduciary duty, seeking $2.7 billion in damages. ERCOT, in making its sovereign immunity claim, has countered that because power generation fees fund its operations that any verdict ordering it to pay damages ultimately would saddle customers with higher electricity prices.

The Texas Supreme Court has not yet set a hearing date for the case.
If the Republican TSC rules in favor of ERCOT in its sovereign immunity claim, it will make suing ERCOT like suing a state for damages. Very difficult.

Given the current outrage, the TSC could blink, but I would doubt so because that would open up the floodgates for insurance companies to pursue claims.

 

CalGalTraveler

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moved to different thread
 
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DrQ

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dagger1

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Devils Advocate: If Texans would rather go without federal energy regulations, then why are they accepting Federal relief that is paid for by taxpayers outside of Texas?
Probably because they pay federal taxes.
 

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Well, as others have pointed out, if windmills (and more) work in winter climates, it can work in Texas, too.
Windmills never work when the wind isn’t blowing. Nowhere in the world. To rely on them during critical times of the year (anytime electric outages can risk lives) is the height of folly.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Probably because they pay federal taxes.

It bothers me that poor policy and planning decisions by the electric utilities and regulators get rewarded (i.e. they get paid) by U.S. Government bailouts. Especially since TX made these policies with the notion of no federal intervention and free market policy. They mismanaged the system and set the policy, they should bear some or most of the burden of cost with some fed assistance (with strings attached to prevent this from happening again.) If some customers walk from their bills and the utilities companies don't get paid, there should be no credit implications for the consumer. Also makes me wonder if some of the suppliers were price gouging.
 
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WVBaker

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Windmills never work when the wind isn’t blowing. Nowhere in the world. To rely on them during critical times of the year (anytime electric outages can risk lives) is the height of folly.
"Contrary to claims by Governor Greg Abbott and others, roughly half of the state’s wind turbines continued to operate, and without them the crisis would have been worse."

 

DrQ

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It bothers me that poor policy and planning decisions by the electric utilities and regulators get rewarded (i.e. they get paid) by U.S. Government bailouts. Especially since TX made these policies with the notion of no federal intervention and free market policy. They mismanaged the system and set the policy, they should bear some or most of the burden of cost with some fed assistance (with strings attached to prevent this from happening again.) If some customers walk from their bills and the companies don't get paid, there should be no credit implications for the consumer.
What about the people burned out of their homes by PGE? Another mismanaged utility.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Ralph Sir Edward

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It bothers me that poor policy and planning decisions by the electric utilities and regulators get rewarded (i.e. they get paid) by U.S. Government bailouts. Especially since TX made these policies with the notion of no federal intervention and free market policy. They mismanaged the system and set the policy, they should bear some or most of the burden of cost with some fed assistance (with strings attached to prevent this from happening again.)

Not all the poor decisions were made at state level. Some were at Federal level.

Years ago, well pipe heating was done by bleeding off a little natural gas from the well and burning it on site to keep the pipes warm. The US Clean Air Act stopped that procedure, and it had to be replaced by electric heating. When the load shedding started. . . .
 

DrQ

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Not all the poor decisions were made at state level. Some were at Federal level.

Years ago, well pipe heating was done by bleeding off a little natural gas from the well and burning it on site to keep the pipes warm. The US Clean Air Act stopped that procedure, and it had to be replaced by electric heating. When the load shedding started. . . .
Also, many wells are "sour" with hydrogen sulfide. When you use it for pipe heating of small gas turbines for generating electricity at the well and along the pipe emit sulfur compounds which are controlled by the EPA.
 

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CalGalTraveler

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FWIW...We have solar so not affected by PG&E electric rates. Our electricity is free. But yes that will probably be passed along to utility customers. Would increase the ROI on solar installations so would incent more solar to be installed.

Agree that possibly the TX customers will pay for this debacle. Lawsuits could also emerge.
 
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dagger1

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It bothers me that poor policy and planning decisions by the electric utilities and regulators get rewarded (i.e. they get paid) by U.S. Government bailouts. Especially since TX made these policies with the notion of no federal intervention and free market policy. They mismanaged the system and set the policy, they should bear some or most of the burden of cost with some fed assistance (with strings attached to prevent this from happening again.) If some customers walk from their bills and the utilities companies don't get paid, there should be no credit implications for the consumer. Also makes me wonder if some of the suppliers were price gouging.
Nail on the head. Texas politicians/bureaucrats have been pushing “green” (read unreliable) energy sources for years. They are cheap sources of energy (as long as they are subsidized) and supposedly have an extremely small carbon footprint (which is debatable.). But, as long as they are subsidized, they are a cheaper source of electricity than natural gas. Hopefully Texas will, while continuing to invest in “green” energy, set policies that will ensure grid reliability during outlier events, such as extreme heat, hurricanes, and frigid temperatures.
Unfortunately all states have their hands out during catastrophes, Texas is no exception. Tornados, flooding events, hurricanes and frigid weather are all common in our state.
 

dagger1

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"Contrary to claims by Governor Greg Abbott and others, roughly half of the state’s wind turbines continued to operate, and without them the crisis would have been worse."

Without them Texas would have been relying on natural gas (as it used to do) instead of using it as a “backup” source of power and there would have no statewide power outage at all.
 

DrQ

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Without them Texas would have been relying on natural gas (as it used to do) instead of using it as a “backup” source of power and there would have no statewide power outage at all.
Riddle me this Batman:
With wholesale electric prices going through the roof, don't you think that any natural gas fired electricity provider would have spun up for the cash grab? Why is that?
 

Ken555

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Windmills never work when the wind isn’t blowing. Nowhere in the world. To rely on them during critical times of the year (anytime electric outages can risk lives) is the height of folly.

Not at all relevant to the point I was making, but nice try at changing the topic.
 

CalGalTraveler

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With the exception of solar in space, I don't think anyone has said green sources of power should be 100%. Should be AND not OR. The problem is that Texas didn't plan for the AND. Their backup failed miserably.
 
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