loss of complimentary guest certificates in "new" VIP by Wyndham Benefits program

[jerrybev]

Today when I, platinum owner, opened the website, on my screen appeared announcement of "new" 'VIP Wyndham Benefits program". (Of course, I stopped believing in Santa Claus a long time ago. ) What was "new": I saw that they had dropped my guest confirmations from 30 to 15. It applies to platinum and our founders level also. I don't like it when Wyndham takes away from what I paid money to have. I did not see any "additional benefits" of any substance.
Your thoughts?
jerry whitfield

 

[jerrybev]

here is view of the new program that appeared on my screen, which you may copy and paste to view:

https://clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com/us/en/club-benefits/vip-by-wyndham

jerry

 

[tschwa2]

This has been trending over the last 3 years or so. Members who have over a million but less than 2 million points are randomly being knocked down to 15 GC. I haven't heard of anyone who was bumped down to successfully get the other 15 back. The wording for years has been 15 GC per eligible million points. For years (and still for many owners) the system has interpreted that as 15 for up to a million and 15 if you have more than a million. It seems like they are now interpreting it as 15 per million. So the rules haven't changed but the interpretation has changed. Wyndham would say that they aren't taking anything away, they were just giving you too many for years and now they are correcting the mistake.

 

[VacayKat]

Today when I, platinum owner, opened the website, on my screen appeared announcement of "new" 'VIP Wyndham Benefits program". (Of course, I stopped believing in Santa Claus a long time ago. ) What was "new": I saw that they had dropped my guest confirmations from 30 to 15. It applies to platinum and our founders level also. I don't like it when Wyndham takes away from what I paid money to have. I did not see any "additional benefits" of any substance.
Your thoughts?
jerry whitfield

it is 15 per million points owned, and partial ‘millions’ counts as a whole million for this. E.g. if you have 2 million points you get 30, if you have 1 million 300 points you still get 30. (I have a partial million and get the credit)

 

[Sandy VDH]

It says 15 per million. The details read, or portion of 1 million.

I own over 1 Millon but less than 2. I still got 30 GC, so nothing has changed.

 

[tschwa2]

it is 15 per million points owned, and partial ‘millions’ counts as a whole million for this. E.g. if you have 2 million points you get 30, if you have 1 million 300 points you still get 30. (I have a partial million and get the credit)

Wouldn't be surprised if one day they knock you down. The rules don't mention the partial and as I mentioned there probably has been at least a half a dozen tuggers over the last 3 years with over a million that have been knocked down to 15 and Wyndham won't budge on moving them back to 30 based on the published rules- regardless of the fact that they received 30 for years and many others with fewer than 2 million still get 30.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Yup, what @tschwa2 says. Maybe they figure if they do it all at the same time there will be too much screaming? Take people out a few at a time and sooner or later the deed is done. @SandyVDH, do you see it written or portion of 1 million anywhere? I've searched but cannot find - can only find the verbiage 15 per million :-(

 

[Sandy VDH]

Yup, what @tschwa2 says. Maybe they figure if they do it all at the same time there will be too much screaming? Take people out a few at a time and sooner or later the deed is done. @SandyVDH, do you see it written or portion of 1 million anywhere? I've searched but cannot find - can only find the verbiage 15 per million :-(

No, the old details read it that way. I would be unhappy to go from unlimited to 30 to 15. Sure they could change it, but I am hoping that they will not diminish this perk any more than it already is.

 

[dgalati]

Today when I, platinum owner, opened the website, on my screen appeared announcement of "new" 'VIP Wyndham Benefits program". (Of course, I stopped believing in Santa Claus a long time ago. ) What was "new": I saw that they had dropped my guest confirmations from 30 to 15. It applies to platinum and our founders level also. I don't like it when Wyndham takes away from what I paid money to have. I did not see any "additional benefits" of any substance.
Your thoughts?
jerry whitfield

IMHO the reduction in GC's is to squeeze out the owners that rent more points then they use personally. When booking weekly stays and renting out 1/2 of them the 15 GC's should be plenty for 1.5 million points even if all the the points are booked using the 50% discount window.

 

[CO skier]

No, the old details read it that way.

The 2014-2015 directory read "15 per 1,000,000 eligible points" in two places. If the rule ever included "or portion thereof" or "rounded-up" it changed before 2014. Footnote 4 in the 2014 VIP benefits summary is the same definition of eligible points as in the chart.

 

[dgalati]

The 2014-2015 directory read "15 per 1,000,000 eligible points" in two places. If the rule ever included "or portion thereof" or "rounded-up" it changed before 2014. Footnote 4 in the 2014 VIP benefits summary is the same definition of eligible points as in the chart.
View attachment 32403

View attachment 32401

Very clear "gift of a guest reservation" nothing in writing on rentals to cover all maintenance fees.

 

[paxsarah]

If the rule ever included "or portion thereof" or "rounded-up" it changed before 2014.

I just checked the language in the 11-12 and 09-10 directories and it's the same as what you posted from 2014.

 

[Manzana]

Quick question. My use year is April 1, I am temporary platinum until then. I received 30 GCs this year in Jan When it comes to April 1 will they take away some of my GCs or will I still have them because I was Platinum when I received them.

 

[dgalati]

I just checked the language in the 11-12 and 09-10 directories and it's the same as what you posted from 2014.

Wyndham probably identified it as a loophole that was abused. How many VIP owners buy developer points above and beyond what was needed to grandfather them into VIP status? I would assume most of the points above and beyond are resale points that are also used with VIP benefits. If Wyndham takes away something that was never a defined benefit in the directory is it really losing a perk or diminishing the value of a ownership? It may help free up inventory for owners looking to book for personal use. GC's were intended for gifting a vacation to friends or family. They were never intended for rentals or as a sales strategy to buy more points that will pay all maintenance fees. Seems to me sales is a big part of helping owners abuse the loopholes.

 

[Braindead]

Quick question. My use year is April 1, I am temporary platinum until then. I received 30 GCs this year in Jan When it comes to April 1 will they take away some of my GCs or will I still have them because I was Platinum when I received them.

In my experience on April 1st you’ll lose GCs down to your current VIP level

 

[Braindead]

Wyndham probably identified it as a loophole that was abused. How many VIP owners buy developer points above and beyond what was needed to grandfather them into VIP status? I would assume most of the points above and beyond are resale points that are also used with VIP benefits.

I’m probably not the only one here that is sick & tired of you using the term LOOPHOLE!!

If Wyndham determined anything to be a loophole they have the power to put a stop to it instantly. So why don’t we all including YOU let Wyndham determine what a loophole is for us owners. Wyndham is the only power here to determine what a loophole is in the system not YOU. Wyndham has determined that resell points in a VIP account is NOT a loophole at this time.

Please stop abusing the term loophole! No matter how many times you want to hear yourself call out LOOPHOLE that doesn’t make it a LOOPHOLE so please keep it yourself!!! Wyndham is the law & security in this instance determining a loophole

 

[dgalati]

I’m probably not the only one here that is sick & tired of you using the term LOOPHOLE!!

If Wyndham determined anything to be a loophole they have the power to put a stop to it instantly. So why don’t we all including YOU let Wyndham determine what a loophole is for us owners. Wyndham is the only power here to determine what a loophole is in the system not YOU. Wyndham has determined that resell points in a VIP account is NOT a loophole at this time.

Please stop abusing the term loophole! No matter how many times you want to hear yourself call out LOOPHOLE that doesn’t make it a LOOPHOLE so please keep it yourself!!! Wyndham is the law & security in this instance determining a loophole
View attachment 32414

Man for a guy that complains about the use of the word "loophole" you have used it a lot in the past.

Someone might as well spill the beans on the deeds that transfer and keep Wyndham direct purchase status. Many are convinced here that a Wyndham employee reads all this. Slingers ad here and ebay has generated discussion in different forums and threads. Since this has been exposed for the world to see. If Wyndham could possibly close the loophole it would be closed by now. So why not share your knowledge? I thought that is why we all come here.

It's not the secret but if it was as simple as setting up a llc or trust. Why don't you see resellers and brokers doing that ?

Hopefully someone shares the knowledge and stop teasing the rest of us. After all if Wyndham can stop it from happening I'm sure they already would've. All Wyndham had to do was look at some of the mega renters accounts under suspension to find out for themselves.

Why not share ? Are sending PMs after telling people to resend ? To make sales and a quick buck? I don't think that's the intention of TUG

You got caught in the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
I posted that Wyndham stop converting Pahio weeks unless you are the original owner.
Ron confirmed that loophole is closed also. That used to be a cheap way to obtain points that were considered developer purchased points. Making those points count toward obtaining VIP levels.

That's the weakest argument we have.
I don't think any good attorney would advise filing a class action on contingency.

Any judge or jury will simply see you were using a loophole that's been closed. No different than a tax loophole closed. Tax loopholes were even law.

Even if it's determined to be a verbal communication it was a loophole the sales weasel informed you of and now it's closed. Again your tax adviser informed you of a loophole and now it's gone.

My 2 cents worth

The system evidently sees the 2 BR LO as two 1 BR units. You might of just exposed another loophole of the old system. You could book a studio at 50% discount and upgrade to the 2 BR LO and have two units to rent.

 

[55plus]

Unless you do a lot of renting 15 guest certificates should suffice.

 

[dgalati]

Unless you do a lot of renting 15 guest certificates should suffice.

On a 1 million point ownership If you rented all your points at a 50% discount 15 GC's would be 2 more then needed. (1 million/77,000=13) Not a issue even on a 1.5 million ownership. Booking all points at the 50% would require 19 GC's. IMHO Wyndham is being generous with the 15 GC's. We all know the GC's were intended for Family and friends and not for rentals.

 

[paxsarah]

On a 1 million point ownership If you rented all your points at a 50% discount 15 GC's would be 2 more then needed. (1 million/77,000=13) Not a issue even on a 1.5 million ownership. Booking all points at the 50% would require 19 GC's. IMHO Wyndham is being generous with the 15 GC's. We all know the GC's were intended for Family and friends and not for rentals.

Are you making the assumption that all reservations would have been 154,000 point reservations (at full cost before discount)? Because that's quite an assumption.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Loophole or no loophole - it doesn't really matter. The bottom line is the entire VIP program is subject to change at the sole discretion of Wyndham - up to and including termination of the entire VIP program. Granted, termination is extremely unlikely, but changes are inevitable over time.

I can attempt to get an answer as to what's going on with the 15 GCs per one million points and where this is headed from here. If it's looking like getting 30 GCs for 1.01MM points is changing, I personally think we could propose a sliding scale for VIP owners, perhaps something like:

1.01-1.20MM - +3GCs (18 total)
1.21-1.40MM - +3GCs (21 total)
1.41-1.60MM - +3GCs (24 total)
1.61-1.80MM - +3GCs (27 total)
1.81-2MM = +3 GCs (30 total)

Just thinking out loud here - haven't done any due diligence on the pros/cons, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

[dgalati]

Are you making the assumption that all reservations would have been 154,000 point reservations (at full cost before discount)? Because that's quite an assumption.

You are correct newer resorts or urban destinations may take double or older less desirable resorts can be less then half the points. Keep in mind also this assumption is based on only a one bedroom reservation when booking a 2-3 bedroom you would need less GC's. Bottom line the 15 GC's more then enough for owners booking most vacations for personnel use.

 

[dgalati]

Loophole or no loophole - it doesn't really matter. The bottom line is the entire VIP program is subject to change at the sole discretion of Wyndham - up to and including termination of the entire VIP program. Granted, termination is extremely unlikely, but changes are inevitable over time.

I can attempt to get an answer as to what's going on with the 15 GCs per one million points and where this is headed from here. If it's looking like getting 30 GCs for 1.01MM points is changing, I personally think we could propose a sliding scale for VIP owners, perhaps something like:

1.01-1.20MM - +3GCs (18 total)
1.21-1.40MM - +3GCs (21 total)
1.41-1.60MM - +3GCs (24 total)
1.61-1.80MM - +3GCs (27 total)
1.81-2MM = +3 GCs (30 total)

Just thinking out loud here - haven't done any due diligence on the pros/cons, so take this with a grain of salt.

Be careful on how many times you say "loophole". I think it would also have to be tied to developer purchased points only. How can a owner gripe it is a benefit that was paid for if they PIC'd to VIP with a minimum amount of developer points purchased? Or a owner that bought 300k of developer points to be grandfathered in VIP. Now if a owner bought 1 million plus developer points I would think they have a legitimate gripe as it is a benefit that was truly paid for with developer purchased points only.

 

[paxsarah]

I think it would also have to be tied to developer purchased points only.

I believe the GC calculation is already based on VIP-eligible points only (so PIC would be included, but resale Wyndham points would not).

 

[Braindead]

Be careful on how many times you say "loophole". I think it would also have to be tied to developer purchased points only. How can a owner gripe it is a benefit that was paid for if they PIC'd to VIP with a minimum amount of developer points purchased? Or a owner that bought 300k of developer points to be grandfathered in VIP. Now if a owner bought 1 million plus developer points I would think they have a legitimate gripe as it is a benefit that was truly paid for with developer purchased points only.

The amount of free GCs has always been determined by how many Developer points an owner has, resell points are irrelevant when determining free GCs