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Renting a TS week you own - does it ever cover the MF?

The Colorado Kid

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Looking for positive/negative experiences from those who have rented their TS weeks....is it worth the extra work and hassle and what are the risks?
 

Marathoner

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There are lots of older TUG posts on this topic that you can search. @ronparise was a particularly knowledgeable authority on the subject. As he would say, you have to specialize, specialize, and specialize. A good profit can be made in certain markets if you know what are you doing. Some specialize on event weeks at Wyndham resorts, some specialize in Marriott resorts in Hawaii or Aruba, and yet others specialize in ski weeks at premium resorts. You get the idea. Knowledge of the micro-market that you are targeting is key in order to understand the local supply and demand dynamics in order to make a profit. My view is that you need to be one of the top authorities in your micro-market to make a healthy margin on your TS rentals and it takes time and experience to achieve this.

In general, to be able to make a healthy profit, the resorts have to be high quality and in high demand. Avoid over-served areas such as Orlando, Las Vegas, and Mexico beach resorts. Even if you have successful strategy and approach, scaling can be very difficult and if you do scale, there are risks that you are subject to - think of all the mega-renters who have to pay MFs currently with no demand for their rentals this year.

Unless you love timesharing and have an active, sustained interest in it, I would say it is not worth the time and effort required
 

The Colorado Kid

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There are lots of older TUG posts on this topic that you can search. @ronparise was a particularly knowledgeable authority on the subject. As he would say, you have to specialize, specialize, and specialize. A good profit can be made in certain markets if you know what are you doing. Some specialize on event weeks at Wyndham resorts, some specialize in Marriott resorts in Hawaii or Aruba, and yet others specialize in ski weeks at premium resorts. You get the idea. Knowledge of the micro-market that you are targeting is key in order to understand the local supply and demand dynamics in order to make a profit. My view is that you need to be one of the top authorities in your micro-market to make a healthy margin on your TS rentals and it takes time and experience to achieve this.

In general, to be able to make a healthy profit, the resorts have to be high quality and in high demand. Avoid over-served areas such as Orlando, Las Vegas, and Mexico beach resorts. Even if you have successful strategy and approach, scaling can be very difficult and if you do scale, there are risks that you are subject to - think of all the mega-renters who have to pay MFs currently with no demand for their rentals this year.

Unless you love timesharing and have an active, sustained interest in it, I would say it is not worth the time and effort required
Thanks so much @Marathoner ! Excellent summary and I didn't know the mega-renter term. Will definitely search more here on TUG. I live in Colorado so very much have a great knowledge of the ski/summer resort micro-markets here. Could always just use the weeks myself as a last option ha!
 

TheTimeTraveler

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There are lots of older TUG posts on this topic that you can search. @ronparise was a particularly knowledgeable authority on the subject. As he would say, you have to specialize, specialize, and specialize. A good profit can be made in certain markets if you know what are you doing. Some specialize on event weeks at Wyndham resorts, some specialize in Marriott resorts in Hawaii or Aruba, and yet others specialize in ski weeks at premium resorts. You get the idea. Knowledge of the micro-market that you are targeting is key in order to understand the local supply and demand dynamics in order to make a profit. My view is that you need to be one of the top authorities in your micro-market to make a healthy margin on your TS rentals and it takes time and experience to achieve this.

In general, to be able to make a healthy profit, the resorts have to be high quality and in high demand. Avoid over-served areas such as Orlando, Las Vegas, and Mexico beach resorts. Even if you have successful strategy and approach, scaling can be very difficult and if you do scale, there are risks that you are subject to - think of all the mega-renters who have to pay MFs currently with no demand for their rentals this year.

Unless you love timesharing and have an active, sustained interest in it, I would say it is not worth the time and effort required



Yes, I believe @ronparise had hundreds of rental units (if not more). I haven't seen any of his posts for a while and hope he is still doing well.


.
 

Eric B

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Yes, I believe @ronparise had hundreds of rental units (if not more). I haven't seen any of his posts for a while and hope he is still doing well.

He posted some old files he was cleaning out just this month.

 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
For a few years we rented out our own timeshare(s) for more than the maintenance fee amount, then used the difference to pay for our own Last Call & Instant Exchange reservations -- practically like vacationing for free.

Then maintenance fees went up. And it took longer to get renters. After a few years of that, the game was no longer worth the candle.

Eventually we downsized by selling off or giving away all our timeshares except just 1, the bare minimum, a triennial 1BR points unit out in Las Vegas.

We're still able to enjoy nice timeshare vacations at Motel 6 & Super 8 rates by exercising patience & watching for bargains. It helps that our preferred timeshare vacation destination is Kissimmee FL during the off season.

So far, so good.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

CPNY

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Looking for positive/negative experiences from those who have rented their TS weeks....is it worth the extra work and hassle and what are the risks?
I’ve been in contact with someone who owns 10 lockoffs at harborside at Atlantis. Maint fee for each is. 3200 bucks. This year there is no rental market so she’s on the hook for $32,000 plus next years, it will keep snowballing. I think it’s wise to have desirable units at good resorts, highly desirable weeks (ski weeks, etc), with low maint fee. Get them to use them, but in the event you can’t, you can rent them to at least cover MF. I’d do it as a last resort on the years you can’t use them or decide on a different travel plan, anything above MF is gravy.

I’m against buying to rent and as a last resort use. Buy to use and as a last resort, rent.
 
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elaine

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I have a 4th of July 3 BR week at HHI, SC that we don't use anymore. I'm pretty sure I could list and get a rental to cover/exceed my annual fees. But, I just deposit into RCI now as it's too much hassle to try to rent.
Risk is renter is a money scammer (they're out there), they stay and afterwards find some bogus reason to complain and want their $ back, they trash the place and TS holds you responsible for your guest, or something like Covid hits and resort is closed and they want their $ back, etc. I have heard about all of above happening on TUG.
 

vacationtime1

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I wouldn't be involved in a business where I would have to invest capital into an illiquid product (timeshares), where I have zero control over the cost structure (i.e. MF's), and the rules can be changed at any time.
 

bnoble

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Looking for positive/negative experiences from those who have rented their TS weeks....is it worth the extra work and hassle and what are the risks?
There are two ways people approach this. One is as a side business---or, eventually, just a business. The second is an attempt to defray the cost of owning to use, further reducing your own vacation costs.

The first is a lot of work, and takes some combination of a good chunk of money (timeshares with obvious rental value tend to be more expensive to buy) or time (things that are less obvious are, by definition, harder to learn.) The people that I can think of most successful at this specialize in something to the point that they learn many of the corner cases that can be leveraged to get better value, and they build a visible presence for that area/product. As far as I can tell, some degree of specialization---and the accompanying investment of time spent learning---is the best way to do better than just parking your money in a low-fee index fund and ignoring it. What's more, you probably have to keep investing some time to keep track of the inevitable changes in your market, your product, etc. If you have that kind of time, and this sounds like fun, it can be. But not many people fit that description.

The second is, IMO, a fool's errand. You never spend enough time on it to really learn how to do it right, and you don't have the volume to be able to make some mistakes but average those out over more successful transactions.

That said, there is a flip side to this question: when considering what to buy, never buy something that would be easy to rent for anything close to (or worse, less than) the annual cost to own. Owning is always less flexible than just paying cash, and you want to see a genuine savings in exchange for giving up that flexibility.
 

CPNY

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If you want to get into the timeshare rental business, start a website and collect money on other peoples rentals. Koala will make a pretty penny at 8%. Truthfully I wouldn’t post on that site. Way too much commission for me.
 

sail27bill

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I’ve been in contact with someone who owns 10 lockoffs at harborside at Atlantis. Maint fee for each is. 3200 bucks. This year there is no rental market so she’s on the hook for $32,000 plus next years, it will keep snowballing. I think it’s wise to have desirable units at good resorts, highly desirable weeks (ski weeks, etc), with low maint fee. Get them to use the, but in the event you can’t, you can rent them to at least cover MF on the years you can’t use them or decide a different travel plan, Anything above MF is gravy.

I’m against buying to rent and as a last resort use. Buy to use and as a last resort, rent.

Totally agree with the above logic. Renting is always a gamble.

$32,000 yikes. Now that is insane! I have an every other year true 2 bedroom at Atlantis that I love. Makes going there pretty affordable. I am glad we never upgraded to a 2 bedroom lock-off...too expensive. I have rented for $1200 to $1500 over MFs when I haven't used it. We also have a SVV and Marriott points. When we need additional time we just rent or buy getaway weeks from II. Pretty easy. I know someone with a lot of Marriott weeks that they could not rent this year as well. She converted them into points and rolled them over. Not a good year to be a Mega renter for sure.
 

The Colorado Kid

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If you want to get into the timeshare rental business, start a website and collect money on other peoples rentals. Koala will make a pretty penny at 8%. Truthfully I wouldn’t post on that site. Way too much commission for me.
Really good idea! @CPNY
 

The Colorado Kid

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There are two ways people approach this. One is as a side business---or, eventually, just a business. The second is an attempt to defray the cost of owning to use, further reducing your own vacation costs.

The first is a lot of work, and takes some combination of a good chunk of money (timeshares with obvious rental value tend to be more expensive to buy) or time (things that are less obvious are, by definition, harder to learn.) The people that I can think of most successful at this specialize in something to the point that they learn many of the corner cases that can be leveraged to get better value, and they build a visible presence for that area/product. As far as I can tell, some degree of specialization---and the accompanying investment of time spent learning---is the best way to do better than just parking your money in a low-fee index fund and ignoring it. What's more, you probably have to keep investing some time to keep track of the inevitable changes in your market, your product, etc. If you have that kind of time, and this sounds like fun, it can be. But not many people fit that description.

The second is, IMO, a fool's errand. You never spend enough time on it to really learn how to do it right, and you don't have the volume to be able to make some mistakes but average those out over more successful transactions.

That said, there is a flip side to this question: when considering what to buy, never buy something that would be easy to rent for anything close to (or worse, less than) the annual cost to own. Owning is always less flexible than just paying cash, and you want to see a genuine savings in exchange for giving up that flexibility.
Thanks @bnoble ! Well thought out....I was with you until "never buy something that would be easy to rent for anything close to (or worse, less than) the annual cost to own" ....not following?
 

CPNY

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Totally agree with the above logic. Renting is always a gamble.

$32,000 yikes. Now that is insane! I have an every other year true 2 bedroom at Atlantis that I love. Makes going there pretty affordable. I am glad we never upgraded to a 2 bedroom lock-off...too expensive. I have rented for $1200 to $1500 over MFs when I haven't used it. We also have a SVV and Marriott points. When we need additional time we just rent or buy getaway weeks from II. Pretty easy. I know someone with a lot of Marriott weeks that they could not rent this year as well. She converted them into points and rolled them over. Not a good year to be a Mega renter for sure.
Agreed. I love harborside. I use all of my SVV star options to go there. The phase 1 I had was just way to expensive. The 2 bedroom standard is still a decent MF. What is the standard 2 bedroom MF? Is it 2,000?
 

Sandy VDH

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I have too many timeshares, but I have extended family and friends.

Points for me are key, as I have way more flexibility in points. I generally do not rent as a whole, but I will dabble from time to time when I find myself in an excess point situation.

The Last Minute Rental board has taught a lot of people on TUG, (yes there are those here at TUG just for the cheap weeks) to expect a week at ANY timeshare for $800. 3 BRs, NYC you name it, they expect to get it for that LMR capped rate. Well I am not playing into reinforcing that expectation, especially if my MFs are more than that. I have on occasion added something to the LMR but that is because I can still make a profit on it. I do it if I already have something great that I could rent and make it work for the LMR rate. But I don't chase that avenue for rentals, but other here on TUG do.

I don't try to speculate on potential rentals too much, as it is too much work and not enough return. And I refuse, YES REFUSE, to rent a timeshare for less than my MF until I am in a position of use it or lose it. Points allows me, in most years at least, to not be in that position.

I have tried other venues for rentals with mixed success. But I am not playing the game, as Ron did, as a business. I rent to shed what excess I have that I can't manage to use. I have an extended family who use the timeshares, a long list of people who rent from me repeatedly, and friends looking for a deal from time to time.
 

The Colorado Kid

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I have too many timeshares, but I have extended family and friends.

Points for me are key, as I have way more flexibility in points. I generally do not rent as a whole, but I will dabble from time to time when I find myself in an excess point situation.

The Last Minute Rental board has taught a lot of people on TUG, (yes there are those here at TUG just for the cheap weeks) to expect a week at ANY timeshare for $800. 3 BRs, NYC you name it, they expect to get it for that LMR capped rate. Well I am not playing into reinforcing that expectation, especially if my MFs are more than that. I have on occasion added something to the LMR but that is because I can still make a profit on it. I do it if I already have something great that I could rent and make it work for the LMR rate. But I don't chase that avenue for rentals, but other here on TUG do.

I don't try to speculate on potential rentals too much, as it is too much work and not enough return. And I refuse, YES REFUSE, to rent a timeshare for less than my MF until I am in a position of use it or lose it. Points allows me, in most years at least, to not be in that position.

I have tried other venues for rentals with mixed success. But I am not playing the game, as Ron did, as a business. I rent to shed what excess I have that I can't manage to use. I have an extended family who use the timeshares, a long list of people who rent from me repeatedly, and friends looking for a deal from time to time.
Thanks for this excellent feedback, @Sandy VDH !
 

sail27bill

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Agreed. I love harborside. I use all of my SVV star options to go there. The phase 1 I had was just way to expensive. The 2 bedroom standard is still a decent MF. What is the standard 2 bedroom MF? Is it 2,000?

It is about $1900. Reasonable for Atlantis. It is about the same as the 1 bedroom premium because they are almost the same size. Curious to see if and/or when it becomes part of the "Marriott family" what they will offer for it in terms of vacation club points. I might be worth my while. SVV on the other hand, will be awful for sure but I always trade it so don't care about the points value. They had better not interfere with the SVN structure or I am going to be pretty upset!
 

Country Roads

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Getting into the rental market with Covid around is quite an undertaking, to say the least. However, you've been given some good advice so, just a few thoughts and considerations you need to understand.

Pursue this as a business and not a hobby. As with any business, some succeed and some don't, for whatever reasons. Determine what amount you're willing to lose should it not.

Choose which market(s) or area(s) you want to invest in. Do as much research and try to understand the rental market for each. This will take some time however, it's a factor that's very important to you succeeding. You want to know the price range, both high and low, of what rents are being asked for and if at all possible, what the units are in fact renting for. Always compare those numbers to the unit you want to rent. One bedroom to one bedroom, two bedroom to two bedroom, etc. Also, take into consideration the amenities of both the units and the resort. Know your competition, both other owners, other resorts and never forget what the resort is charging for a unit like yours. There's a few other things, but that will get you started.

The availability of your unit during the year will also be important. You want your unit to be on the market during peak times for visitors, that will be your best chance of locating and securing a renter. Study whatever area you're interested in and know it. Rental prices more than likely will change depending on the time of year and so will yours.

Last, but certainly not least, determine the operating profit margin that you're comfortable with. I prefer 35% however, I'm not looking to get rich, just looking for a reasonable profit.
 

elaine

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LMR is not designed as a primary rental tool, but, rather, as a way to offload a booking you cannot use or are willing to rent at a discounted rate. I've used it for DVC studios when I have expiring points and for last minute beach weeks when family cannot go. It's sometimes enough to cover my annual dues, or I might take up to a 20% loss, but I'm not out a whole year's fees for a booking I cannot use at a month out. If I wanted more $, or wanted to advertise more than 45 days out, I'd need to go over to the marketplace. It doesn't work well for TS with higher fees. But, my highest annual fee is $1100. So, I was happy when the rent increased to $800.
I thought about acquiring more DVC to rent out as a side gig, as the spread can be lucrative, but decided it's too much work. Then Covid hit and tons of problems with DVC renters because of a closed resort. Glad I nixed that plan last year.
 
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Passepartout

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I've always looked at it this way: If it was generally profitable to rent intervals, why do the developers need to sell them to people like us? Why don't they just rent the weeks themselves? Sure, there are a few high value weeks that command enough of a premium to be profitable, but what about the rest of the year? Sorry, it's too much a crap-shoot for me to be involved with. Oh, and Ron Parise didn't have hundreds of weeks, he had a bazillion resale Wyndham points.

Jim
 

bnoble

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"never buy something that would be easy to rent for anything close to (or worse, less than) the annual cost to own" ....not following?
This advice is for buying for personal use, not a rental business.

Suppose you are considering acquiring a week at good ol' Mugwump Swamp. You love it there, your family loves it there, you go every year. You've been able to rent that same unit pretty reliably, and you typically pay $2,000 for the week. You find someone who owns a week/unit that works for your annual trip. The current owner is offering to transfer it to you for free. Fees are a steal, only $1,800 a week! Seems like a great deal! You're saving $200 every single year!

In the words of Lee Corso, not so fast, my friend. You are obligated to stay there (or to rent it to someone else) every single year, good times and bad. If the week goes to waste only once every ten years, you will end up paying the same money to just rent it when you wanted it than you would have owning it. What's more, being an owner means that's where you are going most years, even if you get a little tired of it, want to take a break, whatever. If you are a renter, and you want to take a break, you just do.

--------------

I will admit that I am intentionally painting one of the best benefits of being a timeshare owner as a drawback. That benefit is: owning is a use-it-or-lose-it proposition. Being a timeshare owner means you are much more likely to actually take a vacation, because you've already paid for (part of) it. I can gaurantee you that owning timeshares has not saved me money vs. what I would spend on vacations if I was not an owner. But, that's because I take more vacations, in more places, more often. These aren't things I can't afford, but if left to my own devices I might not have done them. It's another example of paying yourself first.
 

chapjim

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As an owner it's not that hard to keep from getting scammed by a renter.

Of all the bad things that might happen, I've only had one monetary loss and it was because the renter misbehaved, not that he was a scammer. I lost the cost of a Wyndham guest confirmation that I bought and provided to the renter after which the renter backed out. Said I didn't do anything. I didn't DO much but I SPENT $99 on his behalf. A TUGGER, too, Imagine that!

I would have no problem renting to the same person but my terms of sale would be different.
 

The Colorado Kid

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This advice is for buying for personal use, not a rental business.

Suppose you are considering acquiring a week at good ol' Mugwump Swamp. You love it there, your family loves it there, you go every year. You've been able to rent that same unit pretty reliably, and you typically pay $2,000 for the week. You find someone who owns a week/unit that works for your annual trip. The current owner is offering to transfer it to you for free. Fees are a steal, only $1,800 a week! Seems like a great deal! You're saving $200 every single year!

In the words of Lee Corso, not so fast, my friend. You are obligated to stay there (or to rent it to someone else) every single year, good times and bad. If the week goes to waste only once every ten years, you will end up paying the same money to just rent it when you wanted it than you would have owning it. What's more, being an owner means that's where you are going most years, even if you get a little tired of it, want to take a break, whatever. If you are a renter, and you want to take a break, you just do.

--------------

I will admit that I am intentionally painting one of the best benefits of being a timeshare owner as a drawback. That benefit is: owning is a use-it-or-lose-it proposition. Being a timeshare owner means you are much more likely to actually take a vacation, because you've already paid for (part of) it. I can gaurantee you that owning timeshares has not saved me money vs. what I would spend on vacations if I was not an owner. But, that's because I take more vacations, in more places, more often. These aren't things I can't afford, but if left to my own devices I might not have done them. It's another example of paying yourself first.
Love it! Thanks @bnoble !
 
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