A Mysterious Virus in Central China Has Infected Dozens, Raising Fears of a New Epidemic. Here's What to Know

[TravelTime]

Two sayings come to mind...

When you judge another
you do not define them
you define yourself

and

People are quick to judge others faults
but never quick to point out their own

Good points. I think the shaming right now is because everyone is scared and anxious. We are in a global panic. I will give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are judging others because they are scared themselves. It is easier to lash out at others when you are scared. Anger and judgment often underlie the emotion of fear.

 

[Ken555]

Good points. I think the shaming right now is because everyone is scared and anxious. We are in a global panic. I will give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are judging others because they are scared themselves. It is easier to lash out at others when you are scared. Anger and judgment often underlie the emotion of fear.

Everyone should be scared of the potential of C19. And I find the discussion re allowing people to die in exchange for saving money anathema to my core beliefs. The approach to that discussion so far is almost scientific in its cruelty and reminiscent to other historical events I would rather not name at this time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MULTIZ321]

This is the amount of time you are highly contagious when you have Coronavirus.

This is the amount of time you are highly contagious when you have Coronavirus

A new study has located the approximate length of time that subjects with coronavirus remain highly contagious.

www.theladders.com

.


Richard

 

[TravelTime]

Everyone should be scared of the potential of C19. And I find the discussion re allowing people to die in exchange for saving money anathema to my core beliefs. The approach to that discussion so far is almost scientific in its cruelty and reminiscent to other historical events I would rather not name at this time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I never said we should allow others to die. I have not seen a discussion on Tug stating this. I think whenever a discussion comes up regarding economics and Covid-19 comes up, people who are fearful right away jump to the conclusion that someone is saying we want mass casualties. That is simply not true. We all want this to end with as little misery and death as possible. No one wants to see any deaths. I do not recall anyone saying we should allow other people to die to save money. The argument has been that the economic fallout will create its own kind of misery and possibly death, especially among the poor. There is a lot of science to back this up. Rich people and rich nations will likely survive very well.

We are in a global panic right now and everyone is fearful of something bad happening to them and their loved ones. This is understandable. Life and health always comes first in our nation. That is why so many people are willingly staying home to try to flatten the curve. I have been housebound by choice well before it was mandatory. I was thinking of closing my office before it was mandatory in my state. Many of us will sacrifice earnings to protect the lives of others. The point is we should be able to discuss topics without being shamed or told the discussion is not scientific just because you do not like the topic.

 

[MULTIZ321]

Think you're too young to be hospitalized by
coronavirus? This chart shows why you're wrong.

Coronavirus is hospitalizing many younger adults in the US, showing COVID-19 prevention isn’t just for older people | World Economic Forum

Richard

 

[Panina]

Everyone should be scared of the potential of C19. And I find the discussion re allowing people to die in exchange for saving money anathema to my core beliefs. The approach to that discussion so far is almost scientific in its cruelty and reminiscent to other historical events I would rather not name at this time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don’t get it either and find it a horrible precedent to set, a Pandora’s box of abuses that has excuses. I don’t really find many here on tug saying that but do see it in watching some media.

Plus as I said before, lots of other things would occur, imo a much higher death rate, nothing to do with coronavirus, due to a collapsed Health system. Now if the Health system collapses does anyone really think the economy will stay good?

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

But at some point it's a question that needs to be considered. As I posted, what if you have solid information, developed from the economic community, that the disruptions being created to the economic system will result in a 33% decline in world food supply, which would literally lead to the starvation death of about 2 billion people.

That's a Hobson's choice, and if you want to avoid having to make that decision you must ask the question. Otherwise the choice might be thrust upon you unprepared and unaware. which would make the outcome that much worse.

 

[b2bailey]

Everyone should be scared of the potential of C19. And I find the discussion re allowing people to die in exchange for saving money anathema to my core beliefs. The approach to that discussion so far is almost scientific in its cruelty and reminiscent to other historical events I would rather not name at this time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Okay, you stepped into the ring on this one.
THIS is exactly what I am referring to. Is there a way to tell us your position without slinging a veiled or implied insult towards anyone who does not share your opinion?

 

[Panina]

I never said we should allow others to die. I have not seen a discussion on Tug stating this. I think whenever a discussion comes up regarding economics and Covid-19 comes up, people who are fearful right away jump to the conclusion that someone is saying we want mass casualties. That is simply not true. We all want this to end with as little misery and death as possible. No one wants to see any deaths. I do not recall anyone saying we should allow other people to die to save money. The argument has been that the economic fallout will create its own kind of misery and possibly death, especially among the poor. There is a lot of science to back this up. Rich people and rich nations will likely survive very well.

We are in a global panic right now and everyone is fearful of something bad happening to them and their loved ones. This is understandable. Life and health always comes first in our nation. That is why so many people are willingly staying home to try to flatten the curve. I have been housebound by choice well before it was mandatory. I was thinking of closing my office before it was mandatory in my state. Many of us will sacrifice earnings to protect the lives of others. The point is we should be able to discuss topics without being shamed or told the discussion is not scientific just because you do not like the topic.

I do agree to everyones right to discuss topics and to voice their opinions (as long as we follow tug rules).

I am sorry that what you have been saying has been at times twisted, just not right.

I have had my own issues that I posted on tug and where almost all responses were helpful whether they agreed with me or not, a few seemed like I was being judged because of how I responded, in a way shaming me. I know the posters that made me feel that way probably didn’t have that intent. I consider them my friends. It is just so many are trying to cope and opinions are just being stated more as fact then opinion.

We will all get through this together.

 

[b2bailey]

Personally, I enjoy hearing thoughts different from my own, as long as I'm not made to feel that others think I'm a lunatic for feeling the way I do. I've actually had times in my life when another's opinion influenced me to reconsider my own long held opinion. It was never a result of someone resorting to name-calling (of course not naming names, just inferring).

 

[TravelTime]

But at some point it's a question that needs to be considered. As I posted, what if you have solid information, developed from the economic community, that the disruptions being created to the economic system will result in a 33% decline in world food supply, which would literally lead to the starvation death of about 2 billion people.

That's a Hobson's choice, and if you want to avoid having to make that decision you must ask the question. Otherwise the choice might be thrust upon you unprepared and unaware. which would make the outcome that much worse.

I understand that you are just raising questions. It is very likely that many people will starve or die from other means - other than the coronavirus - from an economic crisis. I do not understand why people find thinking about this to be amoral. To the contrary, I think it is very moral to consider all sides of the policy decisions being made. What helps one person could be hurting another person. China, South Korea and other nations got this under control relatively quickly and with minimal deaths, all things considered. It could have been much worse in China. It would be nice if we could save everyone but death is a fact of life. Probably the one we least want to think about. I am lucky that illness and death don't drag me into excessive worry and fear. It has never been my hot button. I am more worried about living a miserable life on earth. To me, that is worse than death. I know, because I have lived through great misery and unthinkable trauma. I would not wish it on anyone.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

IMHO...Strong pros and cons debating an issue are fine. Personal attacks on other TUG members is not acceptable.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

A long but well articulated article on why flattening the curve is important.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

 

[MULTIZ321]

New coronavirus test with results in 45 minutes exceeds expectations, Rutgers says.

New coronavirus test with results in 45 minutes exceeds expectations, Rutgers says

The test, developed by Cepheid, is being evaluated by Rutgers experts before its planned roll-out next week.

www.nj.com

.


Richard

 

[TravelTime]

New coronavirus test with results in 45 minutes exceeds expectations, Rutgers says.

New coronavirus test with results in 45 minutes exceeds expectations, Rutgers says

The test, developed by Cepheid, is being evaluated by Rutgers experts before its planned roll-out next week.

www.nj.com

.


Richard

UC Davis, where my doctor is located, emailed me today and they said they now have a test where they can get in-house rapid testing results. I was pleasantly surprised. I did not realize tests would be available so quickly and that could get fast results.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

A long but well articulated article on why flattening the curve is important.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

An excellent article. That a put a new framework on a lot of things I have been thinking - and posting - about.

 

[dioxide45]

IMHO...Strong pros and cons debating an issue are fine. Personal attacks on other TUG members is not acceptable.

Personal attacks should be reported using the Report link on the post.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

A long but well articulated article on why flattening the curve is important.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

An excellent article. That a put a new framework on a lot of things I have been thinking - and posting - about.

And that being said, recognize that the writer is not a virologist or medical professional. He's really more of an aggregator. Some of the information that the presents about mutation doesn't track fully with the assessment of virus mutation that has been presented by virologists who are specialized in the field. Most particularly, the discussions that I have read state that the changes in genetic code that have occurred are straightforward and common, have not altered the fundamental characteristics of the virus, and virus that is found in the Europe and the US is essentially the same as what was found in Wuhan.

A similar degree of caution might be appropriate in his analysis of the effects of control measures. There are people who are expert in modeling the spread and movement of infectious diseases, and his presentation might not fully jibe with what they are saying. Dan Klein at the Institute for Disease Modeling expects to have an update this week on the effectiveness of the social distancing and stay-at-home measures implemented in King and Snohomish counties in Washington. Since Washington was the first state to begin to implement controls, that will probably be the first good assessment of the effectiveness of measures that have been undertaken here.

But that's somewhat of a nit in an otherwise excellent interesting and informative review article.

 

[MULTIZ321]

Coronavirus treatment other than vaccines may be available soon.

Coronavirus treatment other than vaccines may be available soon

Vaccine expected to take 12 to 18 months, other therapies likely available much sooner, scientists say

m.jpost.com

.


Richard

 

[caribbeanqueen]

I hope anything I have ever said or will say would never hurt another's feelings or make them feel shamed. If so it is certainly not my intention.
Having an opinion is one thing, trying to make others with a differing opinion feel shamed is unacceptable. Everyone is entitled to their feelings.

I worked in healthcare for years and I am so lucky to have doctors to confer with and one who is very friendly with a biologist who has been researching everything to do with this virus and is very intuned with what is going on and also talking with specialists in the field regarding the virus. So many good things coming out including new medications that stop this virus in its tracks very quickly. This will save many lives!
Unfortunately there are cases of people disregarding the stay at home as much as you can rule, many of them young adults and teenagers.
We cannot control them but we can control what we do ourselves. If you stay at home and six feet apart when out grocery shopping, etc you should be fine. This virus needs to run its course and then die out. If it has nowhere to go it will end.
I do agree we need to reopen but have to be careful it is not too soon. There are many medical people surrounding our President who are giving him sound advice. No one wants a reopening that will overload the hospitals or cause more deaths. Again, with this new medication, there will hopefully be no more deaths or as few as absolutely possible. We cannot be shut down forever.

Most who contract the virus recuperate at home and are fine. There are so many who have not even been tested.
I feel very bad for those who have so much fear and anxiety. I have a neighbor who is hysterical over it. I have had anxiety over other issues and realize how paralyzing it can be. It is going to be ok. So many things coming out now to help us. This will end and life will go back to normal, just hope it is sooner rather than later. Prayers for all to stay healthy.

 

[MULTIZ321]

Vir Biotechnology reports early progress in antibody treatment for Covid-19

Vir Biotechnology reports early progress in antibody treatment for Covid-19

Vir Biotechnology, a San Francisco-based biotechnology firm, said laboratory testing showed two of its antibody drugs appeared to neutralize the coronavirus that causes Covid-19.

www.statnews.com

Richard

 

[Monykalyn]

Oh wow! I fear this isn’t going anywhere for a long time! It will be spread and passed around for a long time. Scary. 17 days

CDC says coronavirus RNA found in Princess Cruise ship cabins up to 17 days after passengers left

Traces of the coronavirus were found up to 17 days after passengers disembarked the Diamond Princess cruise ship, surviving far longer on surfaces than previous research has shown, according to new data published Monday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

www.cnbc.com

Buried in the article is that experts have zero idea if the virus was still able to infect people. Detecting genetic remnants is not equal to transmission.

In looking at the numbers aboard the ships-~7400 total passenger and crew between the 2 ships, 800 infected (in close spaces but presumably decent sanitation) and 10 total deaths. Quite a different rate, however 2/3 of Grand princess passenger declined to be tested. This is frustrating to me-should be mandatory to be released. Having a closed case study could have added to the numbers in a different way and gave a better idea of asymptomatic exposure/contagiousness. Major screw up of government NOT having tests available.

Remember too with the growth of cases is due to more widespread testing, and those with most severe symptoms get tested first.

Really really really need the serology testing to see how widespread this virus has been. We could already be past peak and not know it. at least flu seems to continue to be decreasing now.

This also looks interesting-if can get ramped up and actually works in New York: https://www.wired.com/story/an-old-source-for-potential-new-covid-19-drugs-blood-serum/

I find this site better than the Johns Hopkins one for tracking.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 128,728,806 Cases and 2,813,723 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

 

[jpc763]

I agree with your assessment of the article. I really think it is a great step towards understanding.

The US (mostly at the state level) has taken a lot of steps towards the suppression approach but the key one that we are way behind on is testing and truly understanding how big the problem already is here. Every time I go out to the store, I could be infected and not even know it. I then am possibly infecting everyone I come in contact with. Testing and monitoring is a gap we really need to fill to truly understand what the next step is in this fight.

 

[MULTIZ321]

Study behind updated FDA guidance shows
self-swab tests are as effective as those done
by clinicians.

Study behind updated FDA guidance shows self-swab tests are as effective as those done by clinicians | TechCrunch

Earlier this week, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced that it would be updating its guidance to allow self-swab tests for COVID-19, in

techcrunch.com

Richard

 

[alwysonvac]

New York hospitals battle coronavirus as hundreds of patients flood in: 'We must not break'

"This coronavirus pandemic is worse than working in West Africa during Ebola," said one doctor.

www.cnbc.com

Hospitals in New York City now have more than 2,800 patients with the coronavirus, straining their existing capacity.

Many of those patients are at Smith’s hospital or in other New York-Presbyterian facilities around the Big Apple.

Smith said in his letter that admissions of patients for COVID-19 to his hospital system have continued increasing by about 10% percent each day.

A nurse at Columbia University Medical Center in upper Manhattan said several hundreds of patients there alone had the coronavirus.

About 20% of the hospital’s coronavirus patients are in intensive care units, according to Smith’s letter.

And 80% of ICU patients require ventilators, which are in extremely short supply in New York state, the epicenter for the pandemic in the United States.

“Consult a compound-interest calculator to get a sense how quickly we are approaching infrastructure capacity limits,” Smith wrote.

“We are scheduling very urgent cases in 3 ORs (operating rooms) each day, with 2 rooms for true emergencies.”

New York state has more than 30,800 confirmed cases of COVID-19, with more than 5,000 more cases reported Tuesday. New York City alone has more than 17,850 cases, although most of those people are not hospitalized.

Dr. Craig Spencer, who works as an emergency room doctor at Columbia University Medical Center, warned that patient “case numbers are increasing on a daily basis and soon our hospitals are going to be overwhelmed.”

“At the rate that we’re putting people on ventilators, at some hospitals one to two per hour, the simple math shows it’s only a matter of time until we run out,” Spencer said during an interview on NBC’s “TODAY Show.”