% of resale owners

[TUGBrian]

certainly not much animosity on TUG...but its very prevalent elsewhere!

some folks are downright mean and spiteful towards resale owners. In fact the ONLY 1 star review TUG has ever gotten was from a "retail only" person who cited the fact that TUG promoted resale over retail in his justification for the 1 star review on facebook.

 

[skimeup]

I would not have purchased a timeshare at all if a friend had not told me about purchasing a resale unit. Now retired teacher here - not paying $20, 000 for a timeshare with mf/s with 18% interest! I am an opera nut and found my first ts - a 1br at Inn at the Opera - right across the street from the War Memorial Opera House in San Francisco. In about 2002 I spent $2500 for a one bedroom and that included a week's use. I have lovingly used it every year. Bought an upgrade from the management company for $250 and sold my initial unit for $250 (and I paid Legal Timeshare Transfer about $350 for transfer, obtaining deed, etc.) Also talked a friend into buying an upgraded unit for $1 on tug. Now we share two weeks The 1 br has allowed me to stay with a friend and split the mf.

BTW, LTT is probably the least expensive escrow company on the market but they have lots of business so are slow. Maybe their heavy business could suggest more people buying resale? It took almost 4 months to close the sale. Fortunately, I sold in April and kept this year's use so the buyer was not anxious.

I have bought almost all my units through eBay - except the first, which was through maybe Redweek. I had not yet discovered tug then. I notice lots of references to Redweek and tug here, but none to eBay. There are several other resale companies that have excellent reputations - I have friends that have used tri west timeshare resales and I once used a company in Arizona whose name escapes me now. Which handled the purchase at Los Abrigados in about 2004. 3-4 years ago, they wouldn't handle a sale at Los Ab because it is owned by Diamond. Fortunately for me, I sold one week and was able to return another. The best part of tug and redfin is that there is no commission included for the selling company. And with eBay they seem to make their money on the expensive escrow. Or maybe the buyer is paying them a fee? In any case, as long as one knows the escrow company is legit, no point in worrying about the pays a fee?

I read carefully the Hyatt forum before purchasing a nice unit in Carmel for $499. And immediately had buyers' remorse because I couldn't pay the mf ahead and get access to units. I was looking to go to Key West and can't reserve in January until December 2. However, I see time available still so I am perhaps OK. And World of Hyatt through the Hyatt ownership gave me about a 30% discount... but still, with tax and per diem price with tax is almost double, even with the discount.. I am wondering if the portfolio program and purchasing through the developer gives one the option of paying and reserving ahead?

Perhaps a more interesting question would be how many folks are renting timeshare weeks rather than buying nowadays? And how many are using Airbnb instead of paying for timeshares - owning or renting?

 

[quikitikit]

Back in about 1994, a more senior co worker, told me of his buying a Hawaii timeshare resale, said never buy directly from a developer, to save lots of money. I didn’t what timeshares were and didn’t think much about it until I was planning to retire. So with planning to retire in 2009, I wanted to still go on vacations, learned more of what timeshares were from other coworkers and how to trade them with II or RCI. After retiring, I bought in 2009 on EBay (during recession and many were unloading timeshares) Marriott Newport Coast (NCV) 2 bedroom, every other year, even year use. I thought every other year use was sufficient use enough. Found out Newport Coast was a 2 bedroom not lock off, though advertised as lock off. So I again went to EBay to buy Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort 2 bedroom (my secretary owned here and traded it to go to Cabo San Lucas) for every other year use in odd year. Another friend who owned Lake Tahoe since the 1990’s was shocked to hear what we paid for our timeshare.

In 2010, Marriott changed to the point system. Since even on resale, I paid 4 figures for Marriott, I had not traded it on II but used and enjoyed use of it. In 2014, we bought directly from Marriott vacation points so that we could enroll our Marriott Newport Coast timeshare into the point system even though we bought it resale. We have enjoyed NCV and have traded NCV for points and with our purchased points have traded to go to Oahu and Maui with our adult children and grandkids.

We had thought of returning our Lake Tahoe property back to Diamond Resorts, eventually receiving the paperwork, but then decided using the studio and depositing the 1 bedroom to trade with II was worth keeping a little longer.

Though I found Tug after purchasing my timeshares, I learned so much more about timeshares and use under different programs through TUG! Wealth of information from so many owners!

 

[dioxide45]

In 2014, we bought directly from Marriott vacation points so that we could enroll our Marriott Newport Coast timeshare into the point system even though we bought it resale.

You didn't have to buy directly from Marriott to be able to enroll your Newport Coast week. Since it seems you bought it before the cutoff date of June 20, 2010. You could have enrolled it for only the enrollment fee.

 

[DaveNV]

For those who bought from the Developer, having a smug resale buyer throw it in their face that they overspent is not only insulting, it makes them feel foolish. Nobody wants to feel like they were played. Anger is quite often a natural response, and arguing that the resale buyer has a diminished ownership is a natural reaction, even if all based on speculation, or Developer lies during a sales pitch. I have never bragged about what I got resale (for $X) to a Developer-purchaser (for $XXX), but I have asked them, "Have you ever explored the resale market?" It usually opens a conversation that can be a teaching moment, and less of a back and forth about how they had spent way too much for the same thing. It's a delicate dance.

I've told the story before: Back in the 1980's, I used to attend timeshare sales presentations just for the gifts. It was a game, because I had no intention of purchasing anything, and knew going in that I wouldn't be buying. I never bought, because I just knew they were too much money. At the time, I did a lot of tent camping, or progressive vacationing where I'd stay only a day or two in one area. The timeshare model didn't fit my vacationing style. Timeshares fell into a place in my head as an outrageous expense for a limited return. I didn't know anyone who had bought a timeshare who was happy about it. (Granted, I didn't ask a lot of people.) But even then, timeshares had a sour reputation.

About 2004, my brother and his then-wife were on a vacation to Cabo San Lucas, and fell for a sales pitch at Hacienda del Mar. For the free gift of a (mediocre) bottle of tequila, they ended up spending about $15K (I think) for a studio unit. When they went to use the unit for the first time, they invited us to go along. We'd never been to Mexico, so agreed to go. The place was nice, (if cramped), and we did enjoy ourselves, but I couldn't get around the idea that they'd spent way too much for what they got.

After that trip, I decided maybe timeshares weren't a bad thing after all, but there had to be a better way. I did a bit of creative Googling, found Tug, learned about the resale market, and went from there. Ebay and Sumday became my timeshare stores. In the years since, I've bought and sold maybe a dozen timeshares of all types, believing the only way to know the whole truth about a given resort or system was to "learn by owning." I went through a lot of independents, mini-systems, and clubs, (admittedly, most were second-tier locations), until I came to the realization that Weeks are great, as long as you want to spend seven nights at the same resort, either as an Owner or Exchanger. I have since sold all my Weeks, and I own only WorldMark now, mainly so I can book shorter stays (and still enjoy a lot of system-level perks.)

I'm pleased, but wouldn't be so comfortable if I didn't know what's what about things. My experience has given me a level of comfort that I feel I've earned. A lot of people who own timeshares don't know what they truly own, or how to use it to their full advantage. It's easier to go with what they know, (or have been told), rather than make the leap to learn the other side of things.

Dave

 

[TravelTime]

I have purchased almost entirely resale except for 2 tiny Disney contracts and a hybrid purchase from Marriott (all done by phone and online with no sales presentation). So I am a resale advocate. I have rescinded on a couple direct developer contracts since finding TUG. There is one thing I do not like about some Tuggers. I would suggest that Tuggers try to be more respectful of the developer salespeople. It seems just as offensive to go to a sales presentation with the intention of playing games with another human being as for them to lie to us intentionally. It is not amusing to me when I read Tuggers bragging on here about playing games with salespeople just to snag $100. Then we wonder why people have animosity toward the resale market. If you go to a sales presentation, I would suggest being respectful and listening and getting your rewards and leaving. You know in advance that you are likely to get a hard hitting sales pitch. You are voting with your feet for maltreatment and bullying. If you want to make a difference, it makes sense to politiely educate consumers before they purchase from developers.

 

[dayooper]

I’m the rare breed who has only purchased resale. I was fortunate enough to have a friend who went down the path of developer purchase and subsequently found the resale market. She told me she’d pinch my head off if I purchased from a developer.


Is there animosity toward me from those who first purchased from a developer?

I’m in the same boat. We went to Vegas with friends and loved where we stayed (HGVC on the Boulevard) and thought about owning. They bought from the developer years ago, but mentioned resale. We did our research and bought resale with never doing an “owners update.”

 

[BocaBoy]

I suspect the percentage of resale owners is quite low, perhaps lower than 5% overall.

I would agree with this 5% figure. Aside from people on TUG, I think I have yet to meet a resale owner other than one person I sold a unit to.

 

[TravelTime]

I would agree with this 5% figure. Aside from people on TUG, I think I have yet to meet a resale owner other than one person I sold a unit to.

I suspect you are right. Probably less than 5% actually. I think timeshares still have such a bad reputation and resale agents also have a bad reputation. People are very skeptical of resale agents and it feels safer and more professional to buy direct. I still think that too, even after making many resale purchases. Many resale purchases do not go smoothly and many resale agents, if not most, are not specialists and provide bad information. To buy resale or direct, you do need to be prepared for hiccups and surprises along the way.

 

[TUGBrian]

that is a good point!

Id still bet FAR more people were screwed over by a developer retail sale than from a resale!

 

[Fredflintstone]

Arda figures say 9 million "households" own timeshares in the US.

if I had to guess, id say less than 10% were resale owners(and of that 10%, probably 95% only discovered resale after buying retail first)

I think you are bang on there Brian. And I bet if the 90 percent realized that they can get the same thing free or next to free they would have a coronary.

That’s why the sales team at these resorts need to pump everyone up into an impulsive frenzy and hope to God they don’t see or use the recession limits or come to TUG or Ebay.


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[Fredflintstone]

What surprises me is resorts saddled with defaulted and abandoned timeshares don’t put them up on eBay or TUG just to get a new owner paying MFs. If there are any, I applaud them as it’s better to unload free then keep expecting other owners to pay the MFs in them.


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[controller1]

What surprises me is resorts saddled with defaulted and abandoned timeshares don’t put them up on eBay or TUG just to get a new owner paying MFs. If there are any, I applaud them as it’s better to unload free then keep expecting other owners to pay the MFs in them.


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Why get a new owner paying a MF immediately when the resort can wait a year and perhaps get $45K upfront and a new owner paying a MF.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Why get a new owner paying a MF immediately when the resort can wait a year and perhaps get $45K upfront and a new owner paying a MF.

True. But then other owners shouldn’t be saddled with covering the MF while they wait to get more $$$. A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.


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[controller1]

True. But then other owners shouldn’t be saddled with covering the MF while they wait to get more $$$. A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.


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That would be true if the sales side of the business was in existence to serve the owners. But they exist to serve the developer!

 

[Fredflintstone]

That would be true if the sales side of the business was in existence to serve the owners. But they exist to serve the developer!

Yes...that’s true. The owners are just the locked in payors. They don’t matter once they signed up. Sigh.


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[TUGBrian]

we actually get a handful of HOA/board members at independent resorts that list their excess inventory on TUG!

 

[Fredflintstone]

we actually get a handful of HOA/board members at independent resorts that list their excess inventory on TUG!

That’s the responsible, right thing to do. Kudos to those resorts!


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[Panina]

we actually get a handful of HOA/board members at independent resorts that list their excess inventory on TUG!

I need to push this with one of my resorts. It is the way to go.

 

[DannyTS]

i often wonder how much would the developers' business "suffer" if they allowed all the rights (or most of them) to be transmitted to the resale owners. Is there any evidence that this is hurting HGVC for example? I read the HGVC FB forums and they are full of people updating their ownerships and buying for the first time

I wonder how much is business calculation and how much is pure meanness from Marriott, Vistana etc. It also shows how little information and choice people have before buying. If i were to buy from the developer and given the choice, I would like to be able to carry all the rights of my contract if i ever sell in order to have the highest resale value possible. I am not sure how this policy helps developers but i know for a fact that it is hurting owners.

 

[Saaz124]

Several times at WKV I have felt ostracized by other owners when they hear I bought resale. It's like I'm "one of those people." I feel like telling them I'm "one of those people with thousands of dollars still in the bank." I have bought DVC twice direct from the Mouse and have never thought this way about resale members there. I don't get it.

 

[klpca]

I'm a 100% resale owner but I don't mention it when we travel. No one wants to hear that. (Unless someone tells me that owning timeshares is a dumb idea. Then I have no problem letting them know why I am a fan.)

This thread made me think about how I heard about resale. It took me awhile but I finally remembered. My next door neighbor bought at Marriott Desert Spring Villas in the early 90's maybe. I remember that they bought from the developer, but a few years later one of their friends bought a resale unit that was advertised in the LA Times classifieds. (Dark ages, lol). We resisted any timeshares until 2006 or 2007 when we went to Maui on a promo. Even though we knew better, we bought at WKORVN. But I had joined TUG prior to our trip and knew about rescinding, so when we came home we rescinded immediately. I always liked the timesharing concept but the numbers didn't make sense to me until the 2010-2011 downturn when everything was pennies on the dollar. In retrospect I wish that I had bought more during that time.

 

[geist1223]

Part of the problem with the Developer or small timeshare where it is a Deeded Week and not Points is the time, effort, and expense of doing a legal foreclosure. More timeshares should offer the opportunity of Deed in lieu of foreclosure. This is quicker and cheaper. Then the timeshare can get the Deed out for resale quicker. The time share will never get all the delinquent MF's back.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Part of the problem with the Developer or small timeshare where it is a Deeded Week and not Points is the time, effort, and expense of doing a legal foreclosure. More timeshares should offer the opportunity of Deed in lieu of foreclosure. This is quicker and cheaper. Then the timeshare can get the Deed out for resale quicker. The time share will never get all the delinquent MF's back.

Totally agree. However what I find is they offer a deed in lieu for a fee and some of those fees are 1500 dollars or more. As many states have non judicial, anti deficiency laws, it’s better to go fee free, let them foreclose and have no deficiency making the cost to the resort to foreclose higher. They are much better off taking the deed in lieu fee free instead of paying for a non judicial foreclosure.

In short, the time to be greedy is over. At this point, the owner doesn’t care what they do or threaten to do so they are better off raising the white flag and offering a deed in lieu option free.

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[CalGalTraveler]

Is there a list of states that have these laws? What state should you use to determine this e.g.

Your state of residence?
The state where the timeshare is located?
The state where the system is located ie Florida?