Buying Snafu --- Need Advice

[Sugarcubesea]

Hi Everyone,

I would like your advice on a timeshare purchase.

I recently purchased a 2 bedroom lockout, Week 3.

I had verbiage written into the purchase agreement that the owner would secure a reservation for me for the week # 3 and 52 shares came back to me and stated that the owner was unable to do this request as the timeshare requires the 2016 MF’s to be paid prior to a reservation being made. 52 Shares suggested that I make the 2016 MF payment and secure the reservation myself.

So I reviewed my purchase agreement to determine the sellers name that is listed as the owner of this week. I called the timeshare to validate that this was the owner of record and they told me that the owners of record was not the individual listed.

When I followed back up with 52 Shares they stated that the deed had been recorded into owners name, however, the resort had not yet updated their system. I asked them to send me a copy of the deed and it shows that the property was sold to this owner in April of 2015 and the deed was recorded in August of 2015.

The resort still had the previous owners, as owners of record.

I’m now worried that if I do indeed pay for the 2016 MF’s and this deal goes south, or does not close prior to Week 3, I will be unable to use this week. I’m also worried that with the issue of the current owner being on the registry at the resort, that even if things did proceed forward, I'm now out of the cost I would pay for the 2016 MF fees and the cost that I paid for the unit itself...

I’m also concerned that if I pay the MF fees for 2016 that the resort might not accept the fact that I’m in the process of purchasing the unit.

Since they already have my money, I’m not sure what recourse I have. What would you experts suggest I do?


thanks so much

 

[Jason245]

How much money is involved and are you buying from a licensed real estate agent?

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[VacationForever]

Is week 3 a fixed week? If it is a fixed week, technically you do not need to "reserve" it and it should still be reserved by the time title is transferred, if it does transfer. If week 3 is not fixed, could you use a different week in the year? I would not put more money into this if I were you in light of the mismatch owner of record issue.

 

[epcmart]

Have the seller pay the MF and make the reservation, you then pay it in the escrow.


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[Sugarcubesea]

Is week 3 a fixed week? If it is a fixed week, technically you do not need to "reserve" it and it should still be reserved by the time title is transferred, if it does transfer. If week 3 is not fixed, could you use a different week in the year? I would not put more money into this if I were you in light of the mismatch owner of record issue.

Yes, Its a Fixed Week but I'm concerned that this will not close in time for me use week 3…thanks

 

[Sugarcubesea]

How much money is involved and are you buying from a licensed real estate agent?

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The cost was $1,400 and yes she is a Licensed Real Estate Broker. The company I purchased from was 52shares….

thanks for the help

 

[Sugarcubesea]

Is week 3 a fixed week? If it is a fixed week, technically you do not need to "reserve" it and it should still be reserved by the time title is transferred, if it does transfer. If week 3 is not fixed, could you use a different week in the year? I would not put more money into this if I were you in light of the mismatch owner of record issue.

I have already paid the $1,400 cost and I'm not sure what recourse I have….

 

[VacationForever]

The issue is that if the seller is not even recognized in the system, how could the seller even make a reservation or pay MF for the week? I would ask for refund of money unless the resort confirms that the seller's name is in their system. Otherwise I smell something and it is not good.

As you may be aware, name transfer on the deed is only step 1 of 2. Deed title change happens at the county level. For various reasons, sometimes the resort will not allow the new title to be recorded (Viking ship, MF owing etc...).

 

[Sugarcubesea]

The issue is that if the seller is not even recognized in the system, how could the seller even make a reservation or pay MF for the week? I would ask for refund of money unless the resort confirms that the seller's name is in their system. Otherwise I smell something and it is not good.

The bummer is that they want me the buyer to make the 2016 MF payment and right now, I do not want to throw away any more funds…

The deal was when I purchased this unit that I would pay the price we negotiated to and the seller would make a reservation in my name, now since the ownership is in question, I think the best course of action is to ask for my money back.

Even though the produced a deed showing me that NOLA has recorded this deed in this new owners name (current seller) Quarter House is not recognizing this individual as the seller.

Does anyone think that 52 shares will give me my money back?

 

[Sugarcubesea]

The issue is that if the seller is not even recognized in the system, how could the seller even make a reservation or pay MF for the week? I would ask for refund of money unless the resort confirms that the seller's name is in their system. Otherwise I smell something and it is not good.

As you may be aware, name transfer on the deed is only step 1 of 2. Deed title change happens at the county level. For various reasons, sometimes the resort will not allow the new title to be recorded (Viking ship, MF owing etc...).

That is maybe what happened, they would not allow the transfer to happen to the Viking Ship of 52 shares….

 

[Sugarcubesea]

Have the seller pay the MF and make the reservation, you then pay it in the escrow.


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I think I will do this, as this offers me the most protection.

 

[glmyers]

The issue is that if the seller is not even recognized in the system, how could the seller even make a reservation or pay MF for the week? I would ask for refund of money unless the resort confirms that the seller's name is in their system. Otherwise I smell something and it is not good.

As you may be aware, name transfer on the deed is only step 1 of 2. Deed title change happens at the county level. For various reasons, sometimes the resort will not allow the new title to be recorded (Viking ship, MF owing etc...).

Your are absolutely correct about transfers being a two-step process. However, the resort cannot stop something from being recorded; it can only refuse to recognize the transfer made by the document recorded. Such refusals require language in the CC&Rs granting them the right to not recognize certain transfers based on specific criteria or a law must grant them the right to not recognize the transfer.

Confirming the ownership is likewise a two-step process where the records must be check with the recorder's office and with the resort management. If those two do not agree, reconciling why is very important because the possibilities for conflicting records are numerous. Some of those possibilities are not a problem and merely need to be understood and accounted for in the way the transaction is setup. Other possibilities involve buying the "Brooklyn Bridge."

It is possible the transfer can be accomplished with two deed presented to the resort if refusal to recognize a prior transfer is the problem; one from 52 shares to you as the buyer and a copy of the one from the owner of record at the resort to 52 shares.

 

[Talent312]

I suspect that the seller never bothered to complete the transfer to put it in his name at the resort-level. Either he didn't want to pay a transfer fee, "forgot" or simply didn't know how. You may have to do (and pay for) two transfers -- one to the seller and one to you.

Have you discussed this with the broker? Did your contract provide for an estoppel from the resort? Did you get one?
.

 

[theo]

My $0.02 worth...

The only thought / question that I have to add to this discussion is to wonder who exactly is handling the escrow of funds in this serpentine transaction?
I don't believe that particular (critically important) detail has been disclosed anywhere within this thread; if it was, I admittedly missed it.

If (...ahem) "in house" escrow is involved here, as is often the case with some of the bumbling and stumbling eBay resellers, then it's not really legitimate "escrow" at all if it's actually just the very same people wearing different hats during different parts of the transaction. If that is the case, I'd personally just demand refund of all funds right now and walk (or probably run) away. No one should unwisely rely upon foxes to objectively or responsibly "handle" matters in the henhouse and I certainly would not send 2016 maintenance fees to any "in house" escrow repository. A very bad idea --- at best.

In the final analysis, I suppose it ultimately depends upon how much the buyer wants the week at issue and / or how much financial risk s/he is willing to take.
If interest is only lukewarm, it may very well not be worth the time, bother or expense to attempt to untangle that which already appears to be a bit of a mess.

P.S. I agree with Talent312's suspicion expressed above that although a new deed in a new name was apparently and appropriately recorded in the last transaction, if a transfer fee was either innocently overlooked or knowingly and willfully evaded, then the current owner name "mismatch" at the resort is likely for that very reason. Accordingly, the resort is likely now going to want to receive two transfer fees at their end if the buyer here decides to complete the purchase. That may or may not be a deal breaker in and of itself, depending obviously in part upon how much ransom (transfer fee) money (times 2) will be involved and required to satisfy the resort.

P.P.S. Even if the resort at issue does not charge a transfer fee (unlikely, but possible), it could be that no one ever bothered to provide the resort with a copy of the new recorded deed at all after the ownership change earlier this year. That step doesn't just somehow "happen" --- someone has to overtly provide a copy to the resort.
After recording, County recorders may send the original document back to the closing company, or to the new owner when there is no closing company involvement; it is neither County recorder practice nor responsibility to send anything whatsoever to the resort involved. A competent, professional closing company will always take care of this particular detail to "close the loop", but when there is eBay monkey house reseller / closer involvement, all bets are off on that step being properly completed.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

The only thought / question that I have to add to this discussion is to wonder who exactly is handling the escrow of funds in this serpentine transaction?
Maybe that detail has been addressed somewhere above in this thread; if so, I admittedly missed it.

It (...ahem) "in house" escrow is involved here, as is often the case with some of the bumbling and stumbling eBay resellers, then it's not really "escrow" at all if it's actually the very same people wearing slightly different hats during different parts of the transaction, in which case I'd personally just demand refund of all funds right now and walk (or probably run) away. No one should unwisely rely upon foxes to objectively or responsibly "handle" matters in the henhouse and I certainly would not send 2016 maintenance fee to an "in house" escrow repository. A very bad idea --- at best.

In the final analysis, I suppose it ultimately depends upon how much the buyer wants the week at issue and / or how much financial risk s/he is willing to take.
If interest is only lukewarm, it may very well not be worth the time, bother or expense to attempt to untangle that which already appears to be a bit of a mess.

P.S. I agree with Talent312's suspicion expressed above that although a new deed in a new name was apparently and appropriately recorded in the last transaction, if a transfer fee was either innocently overlooked or knowingly and willfully evaded, then the current owner name "mismatch" at the resort is likely for that very reason. Accordingly, the resort is likely now going to want to receive two transfer fees at their end if the buyer here decides to complete the purchase. That may or may not be a deal breaker in and of itself, depending obviously in part upon how much ransom (transfer fee) money (times 2) will be involved and required to satisfy the resort.

Theo,
Thank you for your input. I'm thinking at this point this is more of a mess and headache then I want to deal with. I'm just hoping that 52 shares will give me my money back. I wonder if anyone has been successful in getting their funds back?
I'm so upset because I thought I had done my due diligence but I was not expecting this curve ball


Thanks everyone for all of the posts with ideas on how to proceed forward

 

[Sugarcubesea]

The only thought / question that I have to add to this discussion is to wonder who exactly is handling the escrow of funds in this serpentine transaction?
Maybe that detail has been addressed somewhere above in this thread; if so, I admittedly missed it.

If (...ahem) "in house" escrow is involved here, as is often the case with some of the bumbling and stumbling eBay resellers, then it's not really legitimate "escrow" at all if it's actually just the very same people wearing different hats during different parts of the transaction. If that is the case, I'd personally just demand refund of all funds right now and walk (or probably run) away. No one should unwisely rely upon foxes to objectively or responsibly "handle" matters in the henhouse and I certainly would not send 2016 maintenance fees to any "in house" escrow repository. A very bad idea --- at best.

In the final analysis, I suppose it ultimately depends upon how much the buyer wants the week at issue and / or how much financial risk s/he is willing to take.
If interest is only lukewarm, it may very well not be worth the time, bother or expense to attempt to untangle that which already appears to be a bit of a mess.

P.S. I agree with Talent312's suspicion expressed above that although a new deed in a new name was apparently and appropriately recorded in the last transaction, if a transfer fee was either innocently overlooked or knowingly and willfully evaded, then the current owner name "mismatch" at the resort is likely for that very reason. Accordingly, the resort is likely now going to want to receive two transfer fees at their end if the buyer here decides to complete the purchase. That may or may not be a deal breaker in and of itself, depending obviously in part upon how much ransom (transfer fee) money (times 2) will be involved and required to satisfy the resort.

P.P.S. Even if the resort at issue does not charge a transfer fee (unlikely, but possible), it could be that no one ever bothered to provide the resort with a copy of the new recorded deed after the ownership change earlier this year. That step doesn't just somehow "happen" --- someone has to overtly provide a copy to the resort.
After recording, County recorders may send the original document back to the closing company, or to the new owner when there is no closing company involvement; it is neither their practice nor responsibility to send anything whatsoever to the resort involved. A competent, professional closing company will always take care of this particular detail, but when there is eBay monkey house reseller / closer involvement, all bets are off on that step being properly completed.

Theo and everyone else --- Do you think at this point I should move forward, I think with the mess its currently in, I don't see any way possible of me being able to use week 3 for 2016. Should I just ask for my money back and hope that they actually give it to me... I would hate to get my attorney involved, but I will if I need to.

thanks for the help and advice

 

[theo]

Theo and everyone else --- Do you think at this point I should move forward, I think with the mess its currently in, I don't see any way possible of me being able to use week 3 for 2016. Should I just ask for my money back and hope that they actually give it to me... I would hate to get my attorney involved, but I will if I need to.

thanks for the help and advice

I did not see any answer to the directly relevant question of closing company identification. More specifically, is it an "arm's length" independent closer (unlilkey, but encouraging if so) or is it an "in house" operation? If the latter, I would personally demand an immediate refund and bail out right now, but this is ultimately a decision you need to make for yourself. Only you know how much you really want this particular week and / or its' potential future value to you if it was successfully acquired.

Attorney involvement and cost is likely to quickly exceed any and all potential value of the timeshare, so I certainly will not offer you any encouragement whatsoever to pursue that particular avenue, but again --- it's your money and your decision to make.

P.S. Fwiw, if this mess can get untangled and "run to ground" promptly and if there is no ROFR exercise required, I don't see how / why this couldn't be sorted out in time for you to have access to week 3 in 2016. That's mid-January --- two and a half months from now. It might be close, but it's certainly possible.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

I did not see any answer to the directly relevant question of closing company identification. More specifically, is it an "arm's length" independent closer (unlilkey, but encouraging if so) or is it an "in house" operation? If the latter, I would personally demand an immediate refund and bail out right now, but this is ultimately a decision you need to make for yourself. Only you know how much you really want this particular week and / or its' potential future value to you if it was successfully acquired.

Attorney involvement and cost is likely to quickly exceed any and all potential value of the timeshare, so I certainly will not offer you any encouragement whatsoever to pursue that particular avenue, but again --- it's your money and your decision to make.

P.S. Fwiw, if this mess can get untangled and "run to ground" promptly and if there is no ROFR exercise required, I don't see how / why this couldn't be sorted out in time for you to have access to week 3 in 2016. That's mid-January --- two and a half months from now. It might be close, but it's certainly possible.

The closing company is In Less Time Closing and I believe they are associated with 52 shares and an In-house operation. I do want a week at QH but I do not want a mess and a situation that could take months of my time to untangle and work through as I work 50+ hours a week and just don’t have time to deal with a long drawn out mess…

The reason why I do not feel confident that this can get completed prior to my week 3 usage, is that it took 4 months for this closing company to get the deed recorded through Louisiana and if it took them that long in April of this year, I don’t see how they will be quicker this time along and in the 4 month window, they were only able to complete step 1 of the 2 steps required for the transfer of the deed over to Quarter House. They never completed the transfer from the previous owner to new owner and I’m not feeling confident that they would be able to do this for me…

Dang, I really wanted this to work but right now its just a huge tangled mess and I just don’t want to get stuck with the wrong deed being transferred over to me

 

[theo]

The closing company is In Less Time Closing and I believe they are associated with 52 shares and an In-house operation. <snip>

That would be all that I personally would need to know to demand immediate and full refund and bail out of the whole mess right now, but YMMV.

You have no leverage whatsoever with "in house" closers. The analogy I used previously is accurate and appropriate --- foxes "handling" matters inside the henhouse.

It's your call and your decision, but I don't much like your odds of successful timely resolution of this matter with an inept and unmotivated "in house" closer --- and I certainly would not be sending any advance maintenance fee payments to any "in house" closing entity at any time for any reason under the sun.

You could at least ask if they would let you move the entire closing over into the hands of a professional, independent closer (but they most likely will not agree to that).
Your advance maintenance fee payment money would then be safe in escrow (unlike with an "in house" entity), but pursuing that avenue (if it's even an available one) would obviously add time (and a few hundred dollars more) to the overall process and the extra time would make your access to week 3 in 2016 that much less likely.

There is a long list of reasons why I personally will have nothing to do with bumbling, incompetent eBay timeshare resellers and their (...ahem) "in house" closings.
Your unfortunate current situation is just one very real example (of many dozens available) of how these confused and inept morons can turn what should be a simple and straightforward resale transaction into a lengthy and unnecessarily complicated mess. I sympathize with you --- and I wish you luck in your chosen course of action.

 

[ronparise]

I feel somewhat responsible for this mess, as the op asked my advice going into this, and I suggested the course of action she followed... ie if you want this thing, and if you can afford it, take the chance and do it. knowing that if it blows up you risk losing what you put into it

so now we are looking at throwing good money after bad.. My advice still holds if the op wants this thing, let the money ride, The question is does she pay the 2016 mf now. I dont think I would at this point. I would bet that the mess gets untangled before week three and I can pay directly to the resort as the owner, and enjoy my vacation. . If it closes but not in time for week 3, I will still pay 2016 mf but not get the use of the week ie losing about $700 and if it never closes I lose the $1400 purchase price. , or put another way, the week I ultimately do buy will have cost me an extra $1400.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

Ron, you have been incredibly helpful to me during this entire process. You have gone through so many of these closings in NOLA, that you truly have first hand experience with how the process works.

I think I'm going to email the realtor I'm dealing with at 52 shares and see if we can get this to a happy close.

Thanks again Ron for the pre help on this deal.

I feel somewhat responsible for this mess, as the op asked my advice going into this, and I suggested the course of action she followed... ie if you want this thing, and if you can afford it, take the chance and do it. knowing that if it blows up you risk losing what you put into it

so now we are looking at throwing good money after bad.. My advice still holds if the op wants this thing, let the money ride, The question is does she pay the 2016 mf now. I dont think I would at this point. I would bet that the mess gets untangled before week three and I can pay directly to the resort as the owner, and enjoy my vacation. . If it closes but not in time for week 3, I will still pay 2016 mf but not get the use of the week ie losing about $700 and if it never closes I lose the $1400 purchase price. , or put another way, the week I ultimately do buy will have cost me an extra $1400.

 

[theo]

<snip> I think I'm going to email the realtor I'm dealing with at 52 shares and see if we can get this to a happy close. <snip>

I sincerely doubt that it's actually a licensed "realtor" you'll be dealing with, but I still wish you luck and success in the outcome.

Native New England Yankee and U.S. President Calvin Coolidge once noted (quoted in brief pertitinent part) that "Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent".

Go get 'em, if that's your choice. If so, I genuinely hope that you'll be enjoying a Hurricane (...the drink, not the storm) on Bourbon Street in mid-January, 2016.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

...I think I'm going to email the realtor I'm dealing with at 52 shares and see if we can get this to a happy close.

I sometimes think that it is better to just pick up the telephone and talk to the other party. Emails are often too brief and may not be overly helpful in dynamically coming up with a solution. After you talk to the person THEN in might be a good time to email them your understanding of what was discussed and agreed to.

Just sayin' ...

 

[Sugarcubesea]

I wanted to take a minute and thank Ronparise and Saintsfanfl in helping me purchase a 2 Bedroom Lock Out at Quarter House for a good price.

This sale had a very bumpy ride but Ron kept encouraging me to stick it out and I'm glad I did…

Saintsfanfl patiently answered every question I had and sent me past newsletters from QH to help me with my purchase.

Purchased on September 30th
Quarter House Confirmed that the unit is in my name on November 10th

I have to give a shout out to the person at 52shares that worked with me on this deal…Karen Stehle-King. She really pushed hard to make this deal go thru so that I could use my week 3 in 2016.

Thank you TUG and all of the amazing people that make up TUG for helping me purchase an amazing unit at a decent price.

THANK YOU !!!!!

 

[WinniWoman]

Tuggers are great!