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On airplane now, large woman spilling onto me!

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pgnewarkboy

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For what seems to be the fifth or sixth time this thread: I don't care HOW they became morbidly obese. That is not my problem.

My problem is when they're invading my personal space. Whatever they do away from me is not my concern.

My problem is that airline employees would rather let the morbidly obese impose on others rather than take the chance of hurting their feelings by telling them to buy an additional seat.

That is the debate in a nutshell. Despite the repeated attempts by apologists for the morbidly obese to make ridiculous comparisons, the fact remains that they are taking more than they paid for at the expense of people who aren't getting what they paid for.

Period. I cannot make it any more clear than that.

Scoop, the number of times you say something doesn't make your arguments stronger. As long as the airline gets you to your destination you have received what you paid for. No airline guarantees your comfort. You are livid about your discomfort. You hold no high ground. You and the obese person bought the same thing -transportation.
 

Beefnot

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Scoop, the number of times you say something doesn't make your arguments stronger. As long as the airline gets you to your destination you have received what you paid for. No airline guarantees your comfort. You are livid about your discomfort. You hold no high ground. You and the obese person bought the same thing -transportation.

So if someone was hanging over your seat with their upper arm against your cheek, you would not complain? You would be satisfied with just arriving at your destination?
 

pgnewarkboy

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So if someone was hanging over your seat with their upper arm against your cheek, you would not complain? You would be satisfied with just arriving at your destination?

Scoop said he wasn't getting what he paid for. I say he got what he paid for-transportation. And to answer your question - I might be unhappy but I wouldn't complain. The road of life is filled with potholes. Nobody gets a smooth ride. All people who have ever walked the earth have faced everything from discomfort to major tragedy. Hardship and starvation is a condition that many face in all parts of the world. You have to be realistic and put things in perspective. Discomfort on an airpoane is not worthy of major aggravation and complaint.
 

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So let me ask you stretch, its ok for the Airline to provide you with an exit row seat free because of your height, but the wide should have to pay for an extra seat?

The difference is -- I fit in the seat. Because of the seat pitch, the person in front of me isn't going to be able to recline. I cannot do anything about that. But I will have no effect whatsoever on the person next to me.

On short trips like LAS to SFO, I have often folded myself into an origami-like position for the 1.5 hour flight. I cause no discomfort to the people around me -- only to myself.
 

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I have an old school chum who is disabled, and has been for decades. She simply can't be on her feet moving around due to phlebitis and open ulcers on her legs. Her income on disability is only about $600/mo. and frankly, fat calories from mac & cheese and cookies are cheaper calories than meat and salads. Over the decades, she has ever so slowly become one of those whom I would consider morbidly obese. There just is nothing she can do about it. I would pity the person who would have her beside her on an airplane. If she were on one, I could see her playing a game on her phone to avoid any uncomfortable conversation with some innocent seated beside her. I don't agree with it, but can easily see it happening.

There is no easy answer. The incapacitated morbidly obese can't afford 2 seats. In Heathpack's OP, the airline did what they could by providing the extra large person an exit row seat. it's just too bad that she and her DH had paid extra for the privilege of sitting beside her. She still could have scrunched her shoulders in and sat uncomfortably still for the duration of the flight, and apologized to H for taking her space. Didn't happen and it's all water under the bridge.

Jim

If you are able to, offer to pitch in to help a friend.
 

Passepartout

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If you are able to, offer to pitch in to help a friend.

Suggestions? I offer her love. Moral support. She lives in a different city and has had double hip replacement (possibly due- or at least aggravated by her weight) which limits her activity, and is of higher-than-average intelligence. Should I send salad coupons? Membership to Over-eaters Anonymous? Curves? All that would to would be to alienate her. Unfortunately, I am not in a position, nor do I think it would help to subsidize her grocery bill. So there it is. I love her as a friend and as she is, not just as I wish she could be.

Jim
 

Rose Pink

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What if it was demonstrated that, at least in some cases, someone had no control over their obesity, but rather it was genetically coded? Are they entitled to a free seat then? Do they get a special ID card that reads "genetically uncontrollable obesity" that gets them extra airline seats and other compensatory perks?
That only happens in extremely rare cases where the individual has a mental deficiency and is unable to understand the consequences of his behavior. In such a case, the individual is not competent to live independently and that person's care takers are responsible for what he eats.

While it is true that there can be a genetic predisposition to process nutrients differently or to be more inclined to OCD and addictive behaviors, those genetic traits do not cause a rational person to be obese. It's physics. If you don't put more energy into your body than your body expends, you will not get fat. IOW, if there are no excess calories, they cannot be stored as fat. You have a choice. Especially if you know there is a genetic trait/family history of diabetes, cancer, heart disease, etc you should take steps to eat a healthy diet.
 

am1

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Suggestions? I offer her love. Moral support. She lives in a different city and has had double hip replacement (possibly due- or at least aggravated by her weight) which limits her activity, and is of higher-than-average intelligence. Should I send salad coupons? Membership to Over-eaters Anonymous? Curves? All that would to would be to alienate her. Unfortunately, I am not in a position, nor do I think it would help to subsidize her grocery bill. So there it is. I love her as a friend and as she is, not just as I wish she could be.

Jim

Anything that you can, want to and that she would appreciate or at least not be annoyed by.
 

Ridewithme38

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The difference is -- I fit in the seat. Because of the seat pitch, the person in front of me isn't going to be able to recline. I cannot do anything about that. But I will have no effect whatsoever on the person next to me.

On short trips like LAS to SFO, I have often folded myself into an origami-like position for the 1.5 hour flight. I cause no discomfort to the people around me -- only to myself.

but you don't fit in the space provided for you, sounds like your using some of the space the person in front of you paid for...why is that different then those who use the paid for space of those next to them?
 

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but you don't fit in the space provided for you, sounds like your using some of the space the person in front of you paid for...why is that different then those who use the paid for space of those next to them?

Sorry, keep at it. I fit exactly in the space provided for me, utilizing 100% of it. The fact that my knees touch the seat do not impinge on the space of the person in front of me. The seats don't recline much, anyway, and we're required to sit upright for much of the flight.

The difference is, for the umpteenth time, that short of femur reduction surgery, there is nothing I can do about my (vertical) size issue. Nothing. I cannot diet myself shorter. I suppose I could stop my calcium intake and hope my bones shrink. Perhaps I could visit a witch doctor. And of course, there's always amputation.

Are you being contrary for the sake of contrariness? Or do you have some sort of reason why the morbidly obese deserve to spill over into everybody's space?
 

pacodemountainside

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Hey Denise M:

There is definately no consensus, actually quite a diversity of opinion on this thread.

Why don't you set up a survey? The resutls could then be forwarded to air lines indicating a sampling of some 58K+ active travelers.:ponder:
 

kenie

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As a society, we expect smokers to stop smoking. We have made laws and levied taxes to encourage them.

We expect drug addicts to kick their habit. We have made their addiction illegal and will incarcerate them if they don't do it on their own.

As I said way back on the first page of this thread -- we mollycoddle the morbidly obese. At SOME TIME IN THEIR LIVES they should have noticed that they can't fit through a doorway without squeezing. And they should have decided to do something about that. They can get help -- just like the alcoholic and the drug addict.

Just like I don't want someone's nicotine, alcohol or cocaine addiction to become MY problem on an airplane, I don't want someone's lifetime of poor food choices to become MY problem, either.

In America you throw people in prison for smoking a joint. Billions of dollars are wasted on the "War on Drugs". Has it worked? NO
What are you going to do to fat people? Put them in fat prison, sentenced to lose X amount of weight if they want out??
If you want people to do something then educate them and get the f'n junk food and garbage that people are BEING TOLD TO EAT off of the airwaves and out of the schools. How many vending machines dispense fruit or healthy snacks??Schools are cutting out gym classes for budget cuts but there's always a way to feed people "pink slime".
Kids are bombarded with advertising for crap from the time they are born, getting less exercise and then people are blamed for being fat. Most families are dual income to make ends meet, and it's "easier" to go for fast food than make a healthy meal.
Start holding the companies that push this crap responsible just like you do the drug pushers. I would be willng to bet that a gallon of high fructose corn syrup will do more damage to someone than a couple of joints. How many people complaining about obese people own stock in the companies that peddle this garbage? If it's so wrong, why are you willing to profit from it?

And no, I am not trying to absolve people from being responsible for their actions. But don't train them to do one thing and then be surprised that it worked.
Congatulations to all the advertising agencies out there who get paid to come up with these great ad campaigns.
 
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heathpack

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First Class Seat

Flew today LAX to San Jose del Cabo. First Class award seats. The seat was seriously FINE and Mr. H & I had our own personal row. Extremely civilized. I also had my own personal bottle of wine, but that is a different story altogether.

e5d2cec3.jpg
 

DeniseM

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Are you being contrary for the sake of contrariness?

Of COURSE he is - this is RIDE!
5719.gif


If everyone came out in support of the obese person, he would immediately jump ship and vehemently argue the other side. :D
 

pwrshift

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Flew today LAX to San Jose del Cabo. First Class award seats. The seat was seriously FINE and Mr. H & I had our own personal row. Extremely civilized. I also had my own personal bottle of wine, but that is a different story altogether.

e5d2cec3.jpg

However, now I'm afraid to eat any of your mini pies for fear I might get the seat next to you. :)
 

fillde

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In America you throw people in prison for smoking a joint. Billions of dollars are wasted on the "War on Drugs". Has it worked? NO
What are you going to do to fat people? Put them in fat prison, sentenced to lose X amount of weight if they want out??
If you want people to do something then educate them and get the f'n junk food and garbage that people are BEING TOLD TO EAT off of the airwaves and out of the schools. How many vending machines dispense fruit or healthy snacks??Schools are cutting out gym classes for budget cuts but there's always a way to feed people "pink slime".
Kids are bombarded with advertising for crap from the time they are born, getting less exercise and then people are blamed for being fat. Most families are dual income to make ends meet, and it's "easier" to go for fast food than make a healthy meal.
Start holding the companies that push this crap responsible just like you do the drug pushers. I would be willng to bet that a gallon of high fructose corn syrup will do more damage to someone than a couple of joints. How many people complaining about obese people own stock in the companies that peddle this garbage? If it's so wrong, why are you willing to profit from it?

And no, I am not trying to absolve people from being responsible for their actions. But don't train them to do one thing and then be surprised that it worked.
Congatulations to all the advertising agencies out there who get paid to come up with these great ad campaigns.
You picked a poor example for our war on drugs. Nobody goes to prison for smoking a joint. Selling marijuana results in jail.

If people need to go to a fast food place for convenience, there are healthy alternatives such as salads. Even Subway can be a healthy alternative. There are choices.
 

ScoopKona

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In America you throw people in prison for smoking a joint. Billions of dollars are wasted on the "War on Drugs". Has it worked? NO
What are you going to do to fat people? Put them in fat prison, sentenced to lose X amount of weight if they want out??

[much deleted]

Start holding the companies that push this crap responsible just like you do the drug pushers. I would be willng to bet that a gallon of high fructose corn syrup will do more damage to someone than a couple of joints. How many people complaining about obese people own stock in the companies that peddle this garbage? If it's so wrong, why are you willing to profit from it?

And no, I am not trying to absolve people from being responsible for their actions. But don't train them to do one thing and then be surprised that it worked.

Again, I REALLY DO NOT CARE the reasons why people are morbidly obese. Go through my old posts. I am Mr. "Buy Locally, source from farmers and ranchers, cook everything yourself, never buy anything out of a package."

I agree with everything you've said. From federal corn subsidies to sugar-added hormone-pumped school milk, to vending machines in schools, to letting agricorp make our kids meals -- THE DECK IS STACKED AGAINST the average American. I certainly get that.

On the other hand, let's take an average young baseball fan and count how many beer ads that kid is going to see in his young life. Blaming agricorp for obesity is like blaming breweries for alcoholism. Sure -- they provide the product that feeds the addiction, and they market it heavily. I get that, too.

But it is incumbent on the consumer to know when to stop.

Airlines won't let someone who is completely blotto onto an airplane. Airlines won't let people smoke onboard anymore. All I'm asking is for airlines to enforce the sensible policies they already have in regard to morbid obesity.
 

heathpack

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However, now I'm afraid to eat any of your mini pies for fear I might get the seat next to you. :)

The mini pie is all good, eat the mini pie! Just don't forget to account for the calories somewhere. Or else fly first class.

H
 

heathpack

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On a more serious note: my maternal grandfather was obese- I would say 75 pounds overweight. My mother has been obese to varying degrees her whole life, including morbidly obese at times, maybe now is 100 pounds overweight. My brother was skinny like a string bean until he needed to go on prednisone for a medical condition that also decreased his activity level and made things like shopping and cooking very difficult. I have been overweight by 20 pounds or so most of my adult life, but when then crept up to 35 pounds overweight, my doctor absolutely put his foot down in year 3 of his telling me to lose weight, for some reason I finally did about a year ago.

So I can tell you from first hand experience that it's not exactly hard- losing weight is really pretty straightforward. Less calories consumed, more calories burned, as long as you are brutally honest with yourself. Probably the only thing that's hard is coming to terms with the reality of it all- exactly how few calories it takes to really run a body is eye-opening, along with how much exercise it takes to really burn it. No one can put you on a diet, you have to figure it out yourself. You can absolutely eat lots of mini pies, you just have to figure out what to do with the associated calories.

Sure food policy in America for some reason favors unhealthy foods over healthy ones, this is a real failing of a government IMO. In part, this is because so many normal weight-people apply the value judgement to the overweight person- he/she is fat because lazy, with no self-control +/- maybe stupid- so reversing some of these food policy mistakes becomes difficult because skinny folks decide they are skinny through better virtue, they oppose changes to food policy that might be very helpful to the overall health of the American public. Personally, I think most overweight people are overweight as a result of a combination of lack of information about nutrition and diet and a sense not being powerless to make the necessary changes. If you decide to lose weight, you hear over and over messages of failure- most people can't do it, they gain more weight in the long run, they can't keep it off, etc. Also hogwash, if YOU are the one who figured out how to lose the weight, you are also the one that can figure out how to keep it off. The same principles apply ad infinitum. But the defeatist message is certainly not helpful.

So I really do have a good deal of sympathy to my obese neighbor on the plane vis a vis her obesity itself. My only issue was that she was pretty rude and clueless about her impact on others. Laying moral judgement on the obese is not helpful, but enabling them with a gazillion pre-made excuses is not helpful either. Everyone who is overweight should be given a loud and clear message, over and over, to lose the weight for the sake of their health. It would also behoove us to make changes on a societal level that would help people to get the tools they need to take the weight off.

H
 

pgnewarkboy

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You picked a poor example for our war on drugs. Nobody goes to prison for smoking a joint. Selling marijuana results in jail.

If people need to go to a fast food place for convenience, there are healthy alternatives such as salads. Even Subway can be a healthy alternative. There are choices.

Sorry your facts are wrong. Many people go to jail for using marijuana.
 

"Roger"

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A few thoughts...

I am reluctant to blame the airline industry or the food industry. (In line with my previous posts) it was interesting to see that the OP was in the exit row after paying $30 for an upgrade on a five hour flight. These seats were available at the airport on what was an otherwise full plane. That price is in line with what it would cost the airline to have provided more pitch (room between seats) for everyone. Yet, those were the seats available at the last moment. What are we suppose to say. "Shame on you airlines for tempting us with cheaper seats with less pitch. You know we are too weak to say no."

Foods. More complicated.

Any habit is hard to break. As a teacher, I often had students vow mid semester that they were going to improve their study (actually non-study) habits. After about a week and a half, there they were again, missing classes, coming unprepared, etc.

Certainly one thing that has changed since I was a kid is the size of soda bottles. I grew up in the days of the 7 oz. Coke. What allowed us to esculate to 20 oz. bottles. Cheaper sweetners (corn fructose syrup). That has allowed the food industry to add sweetners to many things. How much should we blame advertising and how much the food industry providing a product that sells to us.

I would recommend going back to the best drink - water. People used to do just fine drinking water. (Diet beverages are not the answer. Studies show that they just encourage a sweet tooth so that people end us getting their sweetners - corn fructose syrup - elsewhere.

Finally, somewhat related, the NY Times has an article this week about exercise and the growth of new brain cells. (It started as about the ninth most viewed article and has creeped up to number one.) Part of the article mentions that mice were given both enriched environments and environments that allowed for mild exercise. The former had no impact on the growth (or retention) of new brain cells - the latter encouraged them. There is more reason for people to walk and do light exercise than just physical health.
 

heathpack

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A few thoughts...

I am reluctant to blame the airline industry or the food industry. (In line with my previous posts) it was interesting to see that the OP was in the exit row after paying $30 for an upgrade on a five hour flight. These seats were available at the airport on what was an otherwise full plane. That price is in line with what it would cost the airline to have provided more pitch (room between seats) for everyone. Yet, those were the seats available at the last moment.

Just as an FYI, the exit row seats can only be purchased on the day of travel & I made my purchase about as early as one is able to. It may be that every single person on the plane would've been willing to pay $30 more, but only 12 of us were able to.

H
 

geekette

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Sorry your facts are wrong. Many people go to jail for using marijuana.

Not true. Can't quote law, but I believe that it is the possession above a certain amount that is illegal vs use. Sale is also illegal.

I know plenty of "imbibers" and not one has ever been arrested for it.
 
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