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Wyndham site down?

Sandi Bo

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People send me PM's to share similar experiences with Wyndham. Believe it or not, it's NOT just me. Wyndham chose to do all rentals themselves (look at RCI for cheap Bonnet Creek rentals). Wyndham owners cannot rent, but Wyndham can. Gets people in the door to buy. This was a move to profit Wyndham and wasn't meant to help the little guy. If they wanted to help you, they would allow you to get VIP cheaply, grandfather you in a valued owner, but they don't do that, and VIP isn't cheap anymore. Profits are up, rental businesses shut down, and they get all of the rentals themselves. It's a great giant corporation plan with a CEO who is paid more in the industry than any other CEO. That was an article on TUG not long ago.

I post in Sightings, I help people who ask me via PM for the best traders in II, and I share my trade tests on the Sightings board. I try to be helpful. TUG benefits me and has been a great help to me in building my timeshare portfolio, mostly for my personal use, and I like to give back as good as I received. I love TUG. TUG is my go-to to ask question on anything timeshare.
Really done well (by Wyndham)... they managed to pit owners against owners, and create this mystical megarenter for people to hate. Meanwhile building their renting empire. Simple question.... where do the rooms available via American Express points come from? Don't those have to be from Wyndham? Not extra holidays, etc. Don't those have to be Wyndham maybe renting points that were turned in via certified exit, yada yada. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

I appreciate very much everything you post and keeping us informed @rickandcindy23. I hope the very best for you, honestly amazed at what you've been able to do, so much of it yourself.
 

rickandcindy23

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@Sandi Bo You are very kind. Typing deeds and mailing them to counties for recording, then mailing to Wyndham, it's all been to save us money and to save the new owners closing costs. Many TUG members received the free contracts.

I keep hoping for a nicer TUG again. It's bad enough with Wyndham. I don't need the animosity here.

I don't ignore anyone, not yet anyway.
 

RENTER

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Perhaps the primary reason that room was booked is because members knew that they could eventually recover half of their points, thus assuring an easy profit by renting it.

Now because that opportunity no longer exists, there appears to be more availability.
That is not what did it. It was the guest past blackout period. There was no guarantee that you could get the room back. The only time was if there were still rooms available and you booked it and then you cancelled the original room. So if there were rooms still open 60 days out then they were not stealing rooms from those who thought they could get rooms at the last minute.

That then caused problems for those owners who wanted to use guess passes for their friends and families and could not because of the black out period.

Also people as CNBC just reported are taking less vacations. Those who bought homes to rent short term are struggling as less people are traveling and there is more competition.
 

paxsarah

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My ignore list is...not short.
Mine is quite short, but it still includes the person that seems to be the subject of discussion in this thread. I made the mistake of unignoring them at one point because I seemed to be missing actual contributions from them, but then the anti-renting vitriol got to be too much again almost immediately.
 

Roger830

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There was no guarantee that you could get the room back.

Members reported here that they were able to call the vc and have the room cancelled and rebooked.

Even if a room didn't always come back, the points did.

This is all that I have to say on this topic.
 

RENTER

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Members reported here that they were able to call the vc and have the room cancelled and rebooked.

Even if a room didn't always come back, the points did.

This is all that I have to say on this topic.
and why would anyone who had Christmas week at Bonnett Creek take that chance the room may not come back. Or the week at Daytona for the 500. Or NYC for Thanksgiving. Oh, that is right, they can get the points back. Even without a discount they could still rent those weeks out to cover their maintenance fees and loan.
 

HitchHiker71

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A lot of this information was shared by Wyndham sales staff and used to sell more points. My brother in law is VIP and learned a lot of the ins and outs I have read on here from his salesman. Wyndham created the system and their sales staff used it to push sales. I've never understood why people will blame those you learn and use the advantages of a system but never blame those who have created it.
I don't think most folks are blaming the megarenters per se, but as you pointed out, Wyndham owns the system, Wyndham makes the rules, and we're all playing on Wyndham's field in Wyndham's game. When those advantages that you're referring to that legacy owners learned about and used many years ago now, are subsequently removed or curtailed because Wyndham chose to change the rules of the game, and a very small subset of legacy owners that ran commercial businesses were targeted with cease and desist letters and then experienced suspended accounts resulting from rental activities, despite any outrage we can muster, there's really nothing anyone can do about it here on TUG or anywhere else, short of filing lawsuits to fight back. A few brave souls have actually filed suits that were categorized in that "megarenter" class - and they lost those lawsuits or settled with Wyndham under NDAs and cannot discuss any aspects of their settlements.

I agree wholeheartedly that Wyndham upsold many VIP owners using points rentals as a reason to do so. Heck, some sales reps still do this today! We all know that Wyndham practices quite a bit of cognitive dissonance, duplicity, and plausible deniability with respect to their legendarily bad sales practices (daze and confuse type approach). None of this is good. The bottom line to me is, at the end of the day, Wyndham is going to do whatever Wyndham decides to do. It's useful to make observations and to connect dots and openly discuss what we're seeing. Please let's do that.

Bigger picture, with respect to the whole commercial rental topic, I would much rather have the TUG Wyndham forum talking about topics that actually impact the vast majority of owners - that is what I've always tried to encourage. In turn, I'd like to see us not continue to discuss topics that represent an extremely small subset of the ownership base. In a way, I think this is what @rickandcindy23 is addressing. The TUG Wyndham forum isn't what it used to be, at least in some ways. That's likely true - and I'd argue - it's actually a good thing. I want this forum to focus on topics that impact the vast majority of owners, such as the crappy website user experience, the problems experienced when calling into the vacation hotlines, the stories people are told when attending sales updates, and education about how best to use the system within the rules for the system - by and large for personal vacations. This likely means that some may yearn for the "good old days" and I can certainly more than understand this desire, but if we want more net new Wyndham owners coming here on a regular basis for good advice, what we don't want is to have this forum overly represent topics surrounding commercial timeshare business aspirations like in times past. I think this is the change we've seen play out here on the TUG Wyndham forum since I've joined and subsequently became this forum moderator. I think this makes a lot of sense when we all know that Wyndham itself has done a lot to discourage commercial rentals over the past few years.

Change is the only constant in this world - let's do whatever we can to encourage new Wyndham owners to come to the TUG Wyndham forum and share their ownership experiences taking vacations and dealing with Wyndham corporate in the process. I hope this makes at least some sense.
 
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RENTER

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I don't think most folks are blaming the megarenters per se, but as you pointed out, Wyndham owns the system, Wyndham makes the rules, and we're all playing on Wyndham's field in Wyndham's game. When those advantages that you're referring to that legacy owners learned about and used man years ago now, are subsequently removed or curtailed because Wyndham chose to change the rules of the game, and a very small subset of legacy owners that ran commercial businesses were targeted with cease and desist letters and then experienced suspended accounts resulting from rental activities, despite any outrage we can muster, there's really nothing anyone can do about it here on TUG or anywhere else, short of filing lawsuits to fight back. A few brave souls have actually filed suits that were categorized in that "megarenter" class - and they lost those lawsuits or settled with Wyndham under NDAs and cannot discuss any aspects of their settlements.

I agree wholeheartedly that Wyndham upsold many VIP owners using points rentals as a reason to do so. Heck, some sales reps still do this today! We all know that Wyndham practices quite a bit of cognitive dissonance, duplicity, and plausible deniability with respect to their legendarily bad sales practices (daze and confuse type approach). None of this is good. The bottom line to me is, at the end of the day, Wyndham is going to do whatever Wyndham decides to do. It's useful to make observations and to connect dots and openly discuss what we're seeing. Please let's do that.
Bigger picture, with respect to the whole commercial rental topic, I would much rather have the TUG Wyndham forum talking about topics that actually impact the vast majority of owners - that is what I've always tried to encourage. In turn, I'd like to see us not continue to discuss topics that represent an extremely small subset of the ownership base. In a way, I think this is what @rickandcindy23 is addressing. The TUG Wyndham forum isn't what it used to be, at least in some ways. That's likely true - and I'd argue - it's actually a good thing. I want this forum to focus on topics that impact the vast majority of owners, such as the crappy website user experience, the problems experienced when calling into the vacation hotlines, the stories people are told when attending sales updates, and education about how best to use the system within the rules for the system - by and large for personal vacations. This likely means that some may yearn for the "good old days" and I can certainly more than understand this desire, but if we want more net new Wyndham owners coming here on a regular basis for good advice, what we don't want is to have this forum overly represent topics surrounding commercial timeshare business aspirations like in times past. I think this is the change we've seen play out here on the TUG Wyndham forum since I've joined and subsequently became this forum moderator. I think this makes a lot of sense when we all know that Wyndham itself has done a lot to discourage commercial rentals over the past few years.

Change is the only constant in this world - let's do whatever we can to encourage new Wyndham owners to come to the TUG Wyndham forum and share their ownership experiences taking vacations and dealing with Wyndham corporate in the process. I hope this makes at least some sense.
I would agree with you except you said it yourself, that their sales people are still promoting renting to cover costs. So those who are thinking about buying because of that, need to know what happened.
 

HitchHiker71

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I would agree with you except you said it yourself, that their sales people are still promoting renting to cover costs. So those who are thinking about buying because of that, need to know what happened.
100% agree - as I said - let's openly make those observations and talk about the realities so that everyone that comes to the TUG Wyndham forum can learn from these types of posts. Hopefully they can use the search function and find these nuggets within past posts. It's not always easy to find certain topics via search - which is why I've been trying to build out a FAQs sticky thread - so we can cover certain topical advice that we see repetitively here on the forum posts. The FAQ still has a long ways to go though.
 

CO skier

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I would agree with you except you said it yourself, that their sales people are still promoting renting to cover costs. So those who are thinking about buying because of that, need to know what happened.

How often is the cliché "If their lips are moving ..." quote about timeshare presentations in general (not just Wyndham) posted on TUG? Some on TUG even tell similar, tall tales promoting renting to cover costs. Very confusing.
Oops I forgot, while you have your laugh, I will being enjoying the following
1. Cashing in those rent checks
2. Enjoying staying at Wyndham resorts paid for by those rent checks
3. Collecting my dividend checks.

Dividend checks you ask? What does that have anything to do with this? Plenty. All the money I have saved on taking trips has been invested. I am as good at investing as I am with renting because I think out of the box which makes people think I am a fool. Such as refusing to invest in a 401K because of its limited choices and high expenses. I turn down the free match in order to be in control of my investments. Thus, I never lose money because whatever the snobs do, I do the opposite. So, I never get caught in bubbles and sell before they burst and buy before they inflate again. :)
 

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How often is the cliché "If their lips are moving ..." quote about timeshare presentations in general (not just Wyndham) posted on TUG? Some on TUG even tell similar, tall tales promoting renting to cover costs. Very confusing.
LMAO. I am sorry I confuse you. What part of covering my costs so my trips are free and I do not have to raid my retirement account, do you not understand
 

CO skier

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LMAO. I am sorry I confuse you. What part of covering my costs so my trips are free and I do not have to raid my retirement account, do you not understand
It is the part where you think you saying it is somehow different from "their (Wyndham) sales people ... promoting renting to cover costs." It seems you post out of at least two sides of your keyboard, depending on how a particular thread is going.

It is another timeshare sales cliché to hear a salesperson promoting buying more points as a 401v plan for their retirement vacations. :LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
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It is the part where you think you saying it is somehow different from "their (Wyndham) sales people ... promoting renting to cover costs." It seems you post out of at least two sides of your keyboard, depending on how a particular thread is going.

It is another timeshare sales cliché to hear a salesperson promoting buying more points as a 401v plan for their retirement vacations. :LOL::LOL::LOL:
You have jealousy insecurity. No salesperson I know off, promoted renting as a 401K plan. It i nearly impossible because you cannot rent more then the resort is charging. So there is no real profit other than covering your costs. Renter after renter has told you that and you chose to ignore them because of your jealous insecurity.

Those owners who do invest recognize that for every dollar they save on travel is a dollar they can invest or remain invested. While saving their renters hundreds of dollars a night with the VIP discount the owner paid for. Because of the cost of those VIP discounts, those owners are still only covering their costs and not making a profit.

You think it is all about money. If it was, then buying VIP was a dumb move because it would have been better to invest that money. It was all about having fun and traveling at the lowest cost possible. But that is something jealous people like you will never understand.

You prove it every time you post. Attacking those owners who simply did what they were told they could and hustled to get the most out of the system. Just to get you upset even more, you should have Sherlock Holmes teach you how to research Airbnb and find out who is renting there and how many rentals they have had.

While there you will not be able to see what they have earned so far. Wyndham can, you can't. But you can see what they are asking for future rentals. Those with open minds unlike you will determine, this is only being done to cover costs and not to fund a retirement plan thru rents but thru savings on travel.
 

CO skier

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No salesperson I know off, promoted renting as a 401K plan.
Re-read what I posted (maybe a few times). There is nothing about "promoted renting as a 401K plan." My post has nothing to do with money, which seems to be your primary obsession.

If you have never heard of a salesperson refer to a "401v plan" and do not understand the play on words it means, you have not attended many timeshare presentations.
 

jp10558

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I do have to say, Wyndham locations are reasonably nice IME (3 star for me) and their site is actually not that bad to use once you figure out the searching a little, and they certainly seem to have more availability as a personal use system than HGVC does (less need to grab bookings exactly when inventory is released) and provide a "nice to have" monthly billing of MFs, and have none of the HGVC "junk fees" for booking online etc.

I just think like so many things in life, you could have a good reputation and make money, or you can have a horrible reputation and make money, and I really don't understand the desires of so many to have horrible reputations. And most all of the timeshare bad reputation stems from the sleezy sales practices. NONE OF WHICH seem to be required IME, and you could save so much in the incentives to even come to the presentations if you cleaned up the acts, but no - we make money NOW so who cares how many people we make hate us.
 

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then I apologize because I never heard of a 401V plan and I was going every week to a presentation until I was put on the do not tour list. I thought the V was a typo. Also I assumed you were talking about money because how posts did you call owners renting, greedy money grabbers. Sorry if I do not have the exact wording down.
 

Sandi Bo

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Seriously, what is 401(v). I don't think I've ever heard of it. It's been quite some time since I've been to a presentation.
 

CYRUS2400

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Seriously, what is 401(v). I don't think I've ever heard of it. It's been quite some time since I've been to a presentation.
Never heard of it, but, the term 401(v) does exist. Run, if you hear it used.
 
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Seriously, what is 401(v). I don't think I've ever heard of it. It's been quite some time since I've been to a presentation.
It's just a marketing term. A 401(k) allows users to put away money now so that they can have money during their retirement. Sales agents have started throwing around the term 401(v) to imply that putting away money now towards a timeshare is a good idea so that they will have vacations during their retirement.

 

dioxide45

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The v stands for vacation. I have never heard this term in a sales presentation but I have heard where others say they have heard it...
 

RENTER

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401(v) is a pretty common sales tactic. In fact, it's even on my Wyndham Timeshare Lies BINGO card:

View attachment 90969
It's just a marketing term. A 401(k) allows users to put away money now so that they can have money during their retirement. Sales agents have started throwing around the term 401(v) to imply that putting away money now towards a timeshare is a good idea so that they will have vacations during their retirement.

I seriously cannot believe anyone falls for this. When Co skier first mentioned it, I thought it was a typo and he meant K and said to myself how can anyone fall for this. When he said it was a V, i assumed it meant for vacation and again said to myself how can anyone fall for this.

A 401 plan which i do not do because I prefer a Roth and a non-retirement account where I can tax harvest is to build wealth and help pay the bills when you retire. Buying a timeshare only creates another bill with annual increases.

Doing what I do is even a stretch to call it a 401 V
 

Sandi Bo

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My 401K is allowing me to retire. My 401V has become the albatross my father feared it might become.
 
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