[ 2017 ] New Westin Flex

[jabberwocky]

Pretty high MF for the amount of points. Though does that amount on the listing possibly include the VSN fee?

It does include the SVN fees.

My problem with this is the package is slightly too small. You need 67,100 for 1 week in a small 1BR on Maui or 66,650 to extend for three days Saturday-Tuesday in a 2BR. Not really worth doing a retro to bring it into SVN.

There have also been reported issues with the seller have there not?

Regardless, will be interesting to see where this on ends up.

 

[Eric B]

The 65K Westin FLEX was just listed on Timeshare Nation, so if anyone is interested they could get it there without having to pay for the closing and transfer costs as opposed to going through the eBay listing.

 

[CPNY]

The 65K Westin FLEX was just listed on Timeshare Nation, so if anyone is interested they could get it there without having to pay for the closing and transfer costs as opposed to going through the eBay listing.

That doesn’t get you much of anything in platinum weeks

 

[Eric B]

Might be worth it for someone who already owns Westin FLEX. Otherwise it seems like an odd amount for someone to have bought in the first place.

 

[jabberwocky]

I wonder if they would give you developer credit towards the purchase of a larger package and allow you to retro in some units at the same time? I'm guessing the original purchase price for this was around $24k.

 

[ndang3]

I wonder if they would give you developer credit towards the purchase of a larger package and allow you to retro in some units at the same time? I'm guessing the original purchase price for this was around $24k.

Yes, we have done so twice.

 

[cubigbird]

Yes, we have done so twice.

I wouldn’t mind picking up some Westin Flex on the resale market to help with extensions on my weeks but I rarely see any on the market.

 

[jabberwocky]

I wouldn’t mind picking up some Westin Flex on the resale market to help with extensions on my weeks but I rarely see any on the market.

A few have been popping up on RedWeek. I’d like to see them cheaper given the price you pay for a mandatory SVV.

 

[Venter]

I wouldn’t mind picking up some Westin Flex on the resale market to help with extensions on my weeks but I rarely see any on the market.

There is one on eBay but it's a very small package and probably not worth it unless you already own some.

 

[cubigbird]

There is one on eBay but it's a very small package and probably not worth it unless you already own some.

What’s a good resale value per point? I see listings on RedWeek at $.07/point and others on SMTN with sellers asking for delusional prices. Agree with others, resale prices seem high. Also given MF bills due I haven’t seen them hit the resale market. Obviously Sheraton Flex has no resale value but does Westin Flex have resale value?

 

[dioxide45]

What’s a good resale value per point? I see listings on RedWeek at $.07/point and others on SMTN with sellers asking for delusional prices. Agree with others, resale prices seem high. Also given MF bills due I haven’t seen them hit the resale market. Obviously Sheraton Flex has no resale value but dues Westin Flex have resale value?

I think it is still too early to tell. We don't really have enough comps to compare. I think Westin Flex will have some value over Sheraton. It has a lot of great resorts that you can book at 12 months. Though unfortunately no oceanfront in Maui and no Mexico. It may retain value for Maui alone. How much value is anyone's guess.

 

[jabberwocky]

I agree that it is early to see what the value is, but those hoping for SFlex prices (giveaways) will probably be disappointed.

The way I think about it is the MF are about the same as a WPORV or Maui week (roughly), but you get more flexibility to use within the WFlex "mini-system" relative to a voluntary WPORV week, and you also get to book earlier into other WFlex resorts than a mandatory Maui week via SO. The downside is you don't get to bank HO as you can with SO.

$0.07/HO would put a value of around $10k on a 148,100 package. I think this is high relative to both WPORV and Maui resales. I think a fair price is probably around the $0.03-0.5/HO range. To me, larger packages will be more valuable as they can also be requalified in the future.

My first choice would still be a WKORV-N OF week to balance the initial outlay cost with a view guarantee. But for a person who doesn't want to invest a whole lot up front and can handle slightly higher MF (and doesn't mind potential IV or OV assignment), a cheap resale Flex package may work.

We also don't know what will pass ROFR...

 

[CPNY]

I would only want WFlex for westin riverfront ski weeks. I’ve been able to get Maui oceanfront during the times I would travel there

 

[alexadeparis]

As the MF for Westin Flex is approaching $3k+ for a 148,100 Ish amount Of points, is it better to target a high MF mandatory that has full star options Instead of hunting down a Westin flex? You lose the multiple home resort advantage of the flex but can still go outside the tiny flex group when you wish. Just thinking out loud.

 

[controller1]

As the MF for Westin Flex is approaching $3k+ for a 148,100 Ish amount Of points, is it better to target a high MF mandatory that has full star options Instead of hunting down a Westin flex? You lose the multiple home resort advantage of the flex but can still go outside the tiny flex group when you wish. Just thinking out loud.

Why would you target a high MF mandatory instead of a lower MF mandatory?

 

[jabberwocky]

As the MF for Westin Flex is approaching $3k+ for a 148,100 Ish amount Of points, is it better to target a high MF mandatory that has full star options Instead of hunting down a Westin flex? You lose the multiple home resort advantage of the flex but can still go outside the tiny flex group when you wish. Just thinking out loud.

I'm not sure I would buy a high MF mandatory unit as a SO generator to get into one of the Sheraton, Mexican or WSJ resorts. You'd be better off paying $15k for a WKV Plat unit than $20K + for a WKORV-N OF. You've got lower MF/SO with WKV. You buy the WKORV-N for resort priority access, not for SO.

 

[alexadeparis]

Why would you target a high MF mandatory instead of a lower MF mandatory?

Of course, There’s always a tradeoff between purchase price and MF. Preference is always for a low MF Unit like a WKV, but I am just asking. So clearly, the WKV is the better buy In general, and saves half the MF each year. Competition for them are always fierce. I’m NOT talking about those. These units are Literally snapped up as soon as one comes along at a decent cost.

The Few Westin flex resale Packages I have seen have Prices that are in line with the low MF mandatory units like WKV But at double the MF. At $300 or so difference between Westin flex MF and let’s say, HRA MF - as devil’s advocate- would it be worth buying an HRA at $1,000 (As an example) vs a similar Westin flex package for $10k? It would take Roughly 20 years to break even at a very low purchase point Vs. paying $10k upfront. Less competition maybe, probably lower buy In. Plus you would have Full star options and not home options. I just think it makes the Westin flex look even worse overall as far as value.

 

[vacationtime1]

The benefit of the Westin Flex trust is that it owns multiple resorts where owners can reserve at twelve months. Owning an HRA allows twelve month reservations at HRA only; unless you always want to stay at HRA, you will be making all of your reservations eight months out. Owning a Kierland unit has the same problem, although the MF's are much lower.

My own concern about the Westin Flex trust is whether it owns enough Hawaii weeks, ski weeks, and winter desert weeks to meet owners' expectations (people don't buy Westin Flex for summer desert weeks, but the trust undoubtedly owns many of them).

 

[CPNY]

HRA for 1000 is actually $2500 when it’s all said and done. Actually $4000 when you add in the “offer to pay lawyer fee of 1500” when you beg someone to take it from you.

 

[jabberwocky]

The benefit of the Westin Flex trust is that it owns multiple resorts where owners can reserve at twelve months. Owning an HRA allows twelve month reservations at HRA only; unless you always want to stay at HRA, you will be making all of your reservations eight months out. Owning a Kierland unit has the same problem, although the MF's are much lower.

My own concern about the Westin Flex trust is whether it owns enough Hawaii weeks, ski weeks, and winter desert weeks to meet owners' expectations (people don't buy Westin Flex for summer desert weeks, but the trust undoubtedly owns many of them).

Flexibility is the key here, and people do value that. Being able to reserve some of the most demanded resorts in the system at 12 months (and start any day of the week) has several advantages in specific situations. We use our small Flex package to add a few days to our regular WKORV-N week without having to wait for the 8-month mark to play the SO lotto; particularly at peak times. 7 days on Maui is always a bit too short, and 14 days is too long. Our school district spring break is 10-12 days long depending on the year, so adding 3-4 days works perfectly for us. Later when the kids are older (we have four) - I imagine we may want to use our HO to add a studio to run consecutive to our booking so everyone has a bit more space (or we can invite friends/family).

This year I grabbed a spring break week in March with our WKORV-N unit, and then added three days (which returning on a Tuesday instead of a Saturday or Sunday saved us $300 in airfare per person -$1800 total - more than our MF for the package). I've recently cancelled that due to uncertainty over reopening, and picked up an early August WKORV-N week, also adding four days with the Flex. Availability was good.

In general, I've been fairly pleased with availability. It isn't all summer desert weeks. Right now I can book a 4th of July week at Nanea or Princeville in a 2BR (July 2 or 3rd check-in). There is a studio available at WKORV. Keep in mind we're nearly two months into the booking window and I can't see Maui with my WKORV-N home week at this point. There is no 2BR SO availability for Nanea at that time and low availability listed for WKORV-N.

The one thing that I have noticed that is lacking is 2BR ski and summer weeks at WRMV (I do see the occassional 1BR), so I wouldn't buy into flex if that is something you must have. Winter weeks at WKV (Feb.-Mar.) go fast, but they are there at the 12 month mark. WMH and WDW seem to have availaility pretty much any-time during the priority booking period for Feb.-Mar.

I was skeptical of the WFlex system at first. But the more I have seen and used the WFlex program, the more I am appreciating it. It's not for everyone and I would continue to recommend a mandatory resale week if you want Maui for 7 days, but to augment your Vistana portfolio it's not a terrible thing.

 

[alexadeparis]

The benefit of the Westin Flex trust is that it owns multiple resorts where owners can reserve at twelve months. Owning an HRA allows twelve month reservations at HRA only; unless you always want to stay at HRA, you will be making all of your reservations eight months out. Owning a Kierland unit has the same problem, although the MF's are much lower.

My own concern about the Westin Flex trust is whether it owns enough Hawaii weeks, ski weeks, and winter desert weeks to meet owners' expectations (people don't buy Westin Flex for summer desert weeks, but the trust undoubtedly owns many of them).

I would have the same concern with inventory in flex Too. I own SVR units, developer purchased VERY cheaply by using a trade in that I got for free. I have never stayed there. I have SVV Resale I bought for $100, again, never stayed. The only one I always plan to stay at is WSJ, which I got for $1700, Which of course commands about $3200 in MF for my 3 bed pool villa. I haven’t so far had any problems making any SO ressies with my SVR/SVV units and I personally would probably seek out SVV units if I were looking to add more points To my collection. As of right now I am $16,000 all in purchase price wise for 245,000 SOs. MF annuals are $5k. Most of that is my pool villa.

it just seems to me going forward that mandatory units may begin to dry up due to deed backs, that then get transferred into flex inventory, that we as Tuggers May have to revise our thinking And strategy at some point. if the market forces drive the plat plus WKVs north of $20k, I think some folks might rethink the general MO. In my opinion, of course.

 

[CPNY]

Flexibility is the key here, and people do value that. Being able to reserve some of the most demanded resorts in the system at 12 months (and start any day of the week) has several advantages in specific situations. We use our small Flex package to add a few days to our regular WKORV-N week without having to wait for the 8-month mark to play the SO lotto; particularly at peak times. 7 days on Maui is always a bit too short, and 14 days is too long. Our school district spring break is 10-12 days long depending on the year, so adding 3-4 days works perfectly for us. Later when the kids are older (we have four) - I imagine we may want to use our HO to add a studio to run consecutive to our booking so everyone has a bit more space (or we can invite friends/family).

This year I grabbed a spring break week in March with our WKORV-N unit, and then added three days (which returning on a Tuesday instead of a Saturday or Sunday saved us $300 in airfare per person -$1800 total - more than our MF for the package). I've recently cancelled that due to uncertainty over reopening, and picked up an early August WKORV-N week, also adding four days with the Flex. Availability was good.

In general, I've been fairly pleased with availability. It isn't all summer desert weeks. Right now I can book a 4th of July week at Nanea or Princeville in a 2BR (July 2 or 3rd check-in). There is a studio available at WKORV. Keep in mind we're nearly two months into the booking window and I can't see Maui with my WKORV-N home week at this point. There is no 2BR SO availability for Nanea at that time and low availability listed for WKORV-N.

The one thing that I have noticed that is lacking is 2BR ski and summer weeks at WRMV (I do see the occassional 1BR), so I wouldn't buy into flex if that is something you must have. Winter weeks at WKV (Feb.-Mar.) go fast, but they are there at the 12 month mark. WMH and WDW seem to have availaility pretty much any-time during the priority booking period for Feb.-Mar.

I was skeptical of the WFlex system at first. But the more I have seen and used the WFlex program, the more I am appreciating it. It's not for everyone and I would continue to recommend a mandatory resale week if you want Maui for 7 days, but to augment your Vistana portfolio it's not a terrible thing.

I looked into Westin flex but after reading here that ski weeks at Westin riverfront are nonexistent it didn’t make sense for me.