Tourist murdered in PV

Did anyone else hear about this? http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11709113 I didn't see anything about it on the board.

We're leaving for our first trip to PV (staying in Nuevo Vallarta at Villa del Palmar Flamingos), and I admit I'm a bit apprehensive now. I'm sure it could happen anywhere, but the thought of someone entering your timeshare, which you've gone to every year for 10 years, from your balcony at 4am and murdering your husband when confronted is scary, and has put a damper on my excitement of our impending trip.

From what I've read on other sites, their unit was on the second floor. I'm going to call tomorrow and request a HIGH floor. I know the odds are probably very unlikely that we will encounter any violent situation on our trip, but I'm sure this will be in the back of my mind every night we turn out the lights. My husband says he will be sleeping with one eye open. (He's a cop, so he probably does that anyway.)

I'm not freaking out, but I'm not quite as excited as I was about going. Thoughts?

WOW,, We were walking around that area at night just a few weeks ago. [Inappropriate comment deleted.-DeniseM Moderator]

Flamigos is very safe and is far enough away from the romantic zone. The only thing you should worry about is losing your swim suit when a big wave takes you down. We love VDP Flamigos. The hot tub is one of the best.

Wow, that is amazing! We have been going to PV and NV since 1991 and have always felt safe. I think that you will feel very safe in Nuevo. We always do.

From another point of view....My son attends a private school and every year the school goes on a mission trip to the shattytowns near Puerto Vallarta. They have established contacts and go to the same area every year. This year for the first time in 15 years they have canceled the trip due to the unrest in the area.

What a horrific incident, but I would expect this to happen on the streets ( robbery), but to me it shows that even in your room while you are sleeping, you are not safe. I agree Mexico is not the place to be at this time! Be careful and good luck!

[Response to inappropriate comment, deleted.-DeniseM Moderator]

This can and does happen everywhere

I feel for his family, any time someone is killed, it is a tragedy,
but exploiting this incident to spread fear about travel to Mexico is imho wrong.

We live in a smallish town ( under 5k population) in NW Washington State, and things like this have happened here, along with every city and town in the world.

The gist of this should be to use caution and lock your doors at night, at home or on vacation.

Use reasonable care when shopping, don't display large amounts of cash or wear fancy jewelery.

jmho,

Greg

luvsvacation22 said:

From another point of view....My son attends a private school and every year the school goes on a mission trip to the shattytowns near Puerto Vallarta. They have established contacts and go to the same area every year. This year for the first time in 15 years they have canceled the trip due to the unrest in the area.

What a horrific incident, but I would expect this to happen on the streets ( robbery), but to me it shows that even in your room while you are sleeping, you are not safe. I agree Mexico is not the place to be at this time! Be careful and good luck!

Click to expand...

It is my understanding that the family was staying in a rented codo, not a timeshare. The unit was on the second floor, and the slider had been left unlocked (maybe even open). They probably felt secure because they were on the second floor. Such a shock & tragedy. From info. on a PV chat board, the husband confronted the burglar and that probably led to the stabbing. The economy all over the world is struggling, and when we travel we have to take extra steps to remain safe as stated before. No flashing of cash and leave the expensive jewelry at home. We have been to PV/NV many times. I'm not (and will not be) afraid to be on the streets in well traveled areas after dark at a reasonable hour. But just as there are areas here in Sacramento that I wouldn't be walking at midnight, I won't be wandering around in PV at that time.

PV

This is a very sad storey and I feel for the family. The second floor units at La Palapa can be accessed pretty easily. We always ask for units on higher floors.

However, this tragedy will not effect our travel plans to PV. Going to be there in May and Oct/Nov. We have traveled extensively in Mexico for many years and never had any problems. If the intruder had not been confronted it might have turned out differently. I feel safer wandering around PV than I do in many US cities.

aliikai2 said:

I feel for his family, any time someone is killed, it is a tragedy,
but exploiting this incident to spread fear about travel to Mexico is imho wrong.

We live in a smallish town ( under 5k population) in NW Washington State, and things like this have happened here, along with every city and town in the world.

The gist of this should be to use caution and lock your doors at night, at home or on vacation.

Use reasonable care when shopping, don't display large amounts of cash or wear fancy jewelery.

jmho,

Greg

Click to expand...

I agree it can happen anywhere, but right now because of the drug wars in Mexico it is a time of uncertainty.
I do not think the sister of the man who was killed is exploiting the incident. However,the sister of the man who was killed, felt compelled to tell travelers going into Mexico at this time is not a good idea! from the article in the Mercury News "Suzanne, who has launched a campaign to increase awareness about the area's safety issues. She made a public appeal to other vacationers to stay clear of the area, and to use her brother's death as reason to use extreme caution before deciding to vacation in Mexico. "It's just not a place to be right now.""

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/19/mexicos-drug-wars-have-ki_n_152322.html
7,000 people killed in two years.
http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war


I am sure she did not want her brother to die in vain and through her painful lose, trying to do something positive to save someone else;we cannot fault her for that.
I my opinion ( this is only my opinion) considering the volatile temperament of the region right now (doesn't mean ever), I would agree.

I agree we have to be aware of what is going on. The above article cites the states where the drug killings occurred. PV/NV are in the states of Jalisco & Nayarit - they are not mentioned in the article.

aliikai2 said:

The gist of this should be to use caution and lock your doors at night, at home or on vacation.

Use reasonable care when shopping, don't display large amounts of cash or wear fancy jewelery.

Click to expand...

When I told my husband about this, he said the very same thing that Greg posted. You must be aware of your situation and be cautious at all times.

Thanks for the replies so far.

We do make it a habit never to sleep with our windows or patio doors opened or unlocked. Yes, reasonable caution and awareness of one's surroundings is always important, when away or at home. Being that my husband has been a cop for over 30 years, it's sort of ingrained in us at this point.

It's such a tragic story. Having never been to PV, and reading about what's going on in Mexico lately with the cartel murders, I didn't need to read this two weeks before we leave. Of course, I'm sure this is unrelated to the cartel stuff, but the whole picture just isn't that great for me now. Kinda wish we were going someplace else.

Siiigghhh...hope I get that high floor.

You will love VDPF - a beautiful & comfortable resort. You'd want to request a high floor anyway - those units have the best view. You won't even have to go into PV except for the airport if you choose not to, but you'll be missing a great experience. You can go north to some of the smaller towns, Bucerias, San Pancho, Punta Mita.

Just be safe! They are advising travelers going into Mexico to check out the US Department of State. Here is the link : http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3028.html

Check it out and make an informed decision. If at best it will help you go over how to best avoid dangerous situations. It is all common sense, but it is good to be reminded.


I cut and pasted the questions and answers section of the Los Angeles Times Article below:

Planning a trip to Guadalajara,San Juan de Los Lagos and Puerto Vallarta next week. Is it safe to go now?
Frank C.
posted 11:31 AM on 12/22/08
Staff reply:
Been answering this question a lot. Scroll down a bit for more details, but I recommend looking at the State Department's travel advisory.The border areas and some states farther south have suffered the worst violence. Puerto Vallarta has seen little violence.

You will be fine so enjoy your vacation!

We just got back from Mexico and walked the streets in the neighborhood of the Sheraton Buganvilias to go for dinner several nights or to the big MEGA store. We also walked around the Marina Vallarta and the Malecon at night but we felt secure and certainly in Nuevo Vallarta. I even walked the beach there at sunset and when it was getting pretty dark. There were many people walking around or I wouldn't do it.

Most resorts are so strict with people entering their premises that one of our visitors felt irritated because they were questioned and the Concierge would call us first to see if we expected them. Your resort will be the same, I am sure. It is a very nice resort. We know several people who stay many weeks in this area and feel safe and secure.

It is very sad for this family and there may be changes coming in Mexico or anywhere else because of the bad economy so you have to be careful everywhere today.

If you fly to Puerto Vallarta, you have nothing to fear but driving may be a different story at the moment near the border towns because of the drug cartel but we talked to people who have done it and had no fear. We were advised not to drive.

[Inappropriate comments deleted. - DeniseM TUG Moderator]

Most of the problems in Mexico have been on the border cities due to crackdown on drug dealers.
WE have always felt safe in Puerto Vallarrta and Cabo San Lucas. I cannot say the same about certain areas of Los Angeles and San Francisco that wwe have driven through in the past. I live in Bakersfield Ca and there are areas of town we will not drive through. We live in a good neighborhood yet we will make certain we keep our doors locked.

This unfortunately is a true story and my heart goes out to the family. They were actually pretty local to PV, not just tourists and were in a rented condo. Frequent or seasonal visitors. Unfortunately this can hapen anywhere and yes everyone does need to be aware that even in PV there is crime. I feel safe there, as well as where I live in mexico, maybe more so than where my house is in US but no where is without crime.

I might point out at this time that many times the whole story is never told, what were the people involved in, who were their friends or associates etc. I am not implying anything in this case but one never knows the WHOLE story! EVER!

Yes, there are drug cartel wars going on in Mexico and I would be lying if I told you otherwise. The issues are usually in border towns or in places where their is a drug turf battle. The governement is working hard to fight this battle and thus many tourists are seeing a higher police and military presence, so that is good, not something to fear as many do.

I feel essentially safe in Mexico but I am as cautious as I would be when traveling anywhere. Use common sense. Be alert. I see a lot of tourists who must have left their common sense at home, so don't do that. I also see a lot of very bad manners and ill treatment and such and I would advise against that. I was once grabbed by my arm, by an American, a very ill mannered angry American in PV in a restaurant......he had no clue who I was, who I may know etc., very bad thing to do, let alone I could have had him thrown in jail for assault. If my sons had been there or any of my Mexican friends it would have been a bad scenario, as you never ever do that to a woman here, let alone a mother and he also spoke very bad words to my mother, again considered assault here, especially to a grandmother. Tort laws still exist in Mexico. My point do not come to Mexico and be a nasty gringo......to anyone...maybe you will be that way to someone who is involved with bad people, like drug cartels or such. Mind your mannners.

Most resorts throughout Mexico are very safe and have great security, I will continue to travel here along the Pacific Coast and know of the resort you speak and it is in a safe and secure area, but again use common sense.

We traveled by car to Mazatlan when the drug cartel wars were in full swing, actually following a military caravan into Mazatlan, we felt quite safe. We never encountered all the issues of problems that were spoken of on US TV, news and even Mexico news, but then again, we stay alert, we stay away from drugs and we do not roam where we do not belong nor do we imbibe of lots of alcohol off resort premises.

Jalisco is seeing extreme growth and with that comes crime....as well as a failing economy in US, trickling down to Mexico....and many illegal Mexicans being forced back to Mexico, without jobs etc. Puerto Vallarta is in the state of Jalisco, and though I will continue to call it a safe place to vacation, The Guadalajara reporter in Mexico in English recently reported it as having the highest crime rate in Jalisco, which shocked me as I thought Guadalajara might be the highest since it is the second largest city in Mexico.

Would I tell you not to go to PV due to safety no....I think if you check stats and such you will see with the numbers of people that are there in a year and the crime rate it is lower than many big cities in US......Do I feel it is safe, yes, but do not be foolish....be alert, aware and cautious either way as you might be in any place foreign to you.

Most crimes are not against tourists unless it is petty theft, like flashing money or a hanging purse.

Go and have fun, just be aware, nowhere is free of crime or bad people so use common sense and be polite and a reflection of a good American instead of what we are typically known as nasty Americans ( sorry but that is what we are referred to in many parts of the world)

Safe & Happy Vacations to all!!! I'll be off to PV in just a few short weeks, driving ......I'll report back when I return.

Thanks to all who replied!

Pammex - thank you for the specific advice. I have seen the Ugly American of which you speak, and am mortified by it. I think many Americans (and likely most TUGgers!) are quite the opposite. We always try our best to be respectful of the cultures we visit, tip more than required for good service, and express our thanks often. And we leave the fancy jewelry at home!

Okay, everyone, I'm beginning to come out of my funk after reading these posts, and am getting a little excited again. I don't think this will be much of a sightseeing trip this time around; I think I'll stick to the resort and immediate area. Next time I really want to do the turtle hatchling release on the beach though.

Thanks again!

PV

Very well stated Pamex. We have shared and observed many of the same experiences. Always be alert and you should have no problems.

I leave for PV in four weeks. Anybody going to be at Los Tules for week 12?

aliikai2 said:

I feel for his family, any time someone is killed, it is a tragedy,
but exploiting this incident to spread fear about travel to Mexico is imho wrong.

We live in a smallish town ( under 5k population) in NW Washington State, and things like this have happened here, along with every city and town in the world.

The gist of this should be to use caution and lock your doors at night, at home or on vacation.

Use reasonable care when shopping, don't display large amounts of cash or wear fancy jewelery.

jmho,

Greg

Click to expand...

My exact sentiments also, Greg.

The area of PV that this killing took place is the Romantic Zone. This area is in old PV and is the area that young people with alternative life styles hang out. Old PV is over crowded with many unemployed people struggleing to earn a living. This would include criminals. In many cities there are areas that seem a little more prone to criminal activity. We were uncomfortable walking around in the romantic zone after dark a few weeks ago.

VDP Flamingos is very safe.

Buzzmom said:

Thanks to all who replied!

Pammex - thank you for the specific advice. I have seen the Ugly American of which you speak, and am mortified by it. I think many Americans (and likely most TUGgers!) are quite the opposite. We always try our best to be respectful of the cultures we visit, tip more than required for good service, and express our thanks often. And we leave the fancy jewelry at home!

Okay, everyone, I'm beginning to come out of my funk after reading these posts, and am getting a little excited again. I don't think this will be much of a sightseeing trip this time around; I think I'll stick to the resort and immediate area. Next time I really want to do the turtle hatchling release on the beach though.

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

You picked up the most important point be respectful of the cultures of where you visit. ( The tipping well that is great but has nothing to really do with crime, but yes we tip for good service as well and we always get good service in Mexico I must say). I do wear my wedding rings, and some times some gold jewelry at resorts, but not about town and not fancy, more simple. I never, ever flash money.

I sure hope and believe that there are no tuggers who are ugly americans as I spoke of....kind of sad, I am in foreign country traveling with my 70 year old mother and am in fear of one of my own countrymen, not a Mexican but American. I see the same in my own town, many very nasty, disrespectful Americans trying to change Mexico or yelling at young baggers in store, who by the way get no pay, just tips, have no clue what the American is saying, I shake my head and walk away as I feel ashamed to be associated with such. I am well respected and watched out for by my Mexican neighbors for I respect them. When my son was younger, he also worked as a bagger and he quit after a short time ( he could pass for Mexican due to his cultural ways of being here so long and also his fluency of the language) because he said the foreigners were so cruel and disrespectful, of course they did not know he was American, but his friends ( Mexicans) did. Very sad!

In regards to your trip.....your resort is just fine, so try to relax, the surrounding area is fine. Of course you won't be walking around at night alone in dark , drunk or such anyway. You can also feel pretty safe in checking out some sights in tourist areas, they are heavily patrolled and fine. If the turtle hatching release is when you are there, go do it, it is fine.

I too am due in PV in just a few weeks, one week in PV and one week in Nuevo and I will do as I usually do and feel safe. My post was not to alarm anyone but just to make people more aware of their need to not leave common sense at home.

Now.....as an added note and to make you feel a tad less funky.....my DH travels freq. between our home in US and our home in MX. I stay here 99% of time, mostly alone, yes I have an 18 year old here but he is out a lot, and I am fine. I lock my doors of course, I respect and belong to the national community here, I am not flashy, but I do have a very big house etc. I do not go walking around at night alone, nor do I go out and drink alone etc.....

I also travel to PV with my mom & I, and we are fine and I will in future go to PV alone , driving and still feel safe...alert, aware, polite and cautious.

When I travel in PV, if I am out in a restaurant or such and things get too wild, and out of form for what is accepted in Mexico, I leave, period. ( Loud argueing, fights, yelling, dancing on bars, drinking and becoming obnoxious are out of sorts here, as woul dbe hanging on a Mexican guy etc.). If a foreigner here is mal ( bad), I usually report to management, ignore if possible and many times I just leave. Only because I am American do I do this, as my Mexican friends say just let's call police and then they will truly know Mexico ( you never want to be in jail in Mexico) Why should I leave, well I do not wish for a national to think I am associated with such and I do not want for that bad mannered American to go to jail for it will be an expensive trip for him or her, a long visit and well not something they would like for sure.

Please go and have a great time.....enjoy but stay in tourist areas, and once again a little common sense. Try to remember a few spanish words....
por favor ( please);
gracias ( thank you);
ayudame ( I- you- dah - mey) ( help me);

Next up..get excited again.....You are staying in nice area...and as another poster said the Romantic Zone or Old PV, which I do like, is full of many alternative lifestyles and unemployed folks, along with a lot of foreigners who lose their sense of politeness. It is a nice area but an area to be a bit more cautious in my opinion, especially in the night.......JMHO of course). Can you go out at night of course, my mom & I do, but to like a restaurant, a meal, few drinks, and then back to resort....or a walk along the malecon at night, fine....many people, but like at say 4am or such, nah....

Mexicans for the most part are a humble, proud, helpful, kind, generous, people and they will for the most part help you with anything. Respect is huge here.....I mean huge....so for the most part you will only encounter good people, but like everywhere there are also bad ........with the above suggestions and your own common travel sense you most likely will never encounter the bad, so go and enjoy.................really I mean it......enjoy without fear.........The weather has been luscious, sunny and great temps....beautiful sunsets and great food, drink and relaxation.....

I usually take my laptop on vacation and try to check in here and read any new posts, if I have time, so if you need a little help while there, drop me a PM or post......maybe a spanish phrase or can I go here, do this etc...glad to help in any way I can....

No te preoccupes ( do not worry).....tiene divertido ( have fun)!!!