Does anyone remember this week 3 horror story?

billymach4 · Jan 28, 2009

Now this makes sense. Remember amyl's thread 2 years ago. At the time this was an interesting thread.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39690

Sunbum · Jan 28, 2009

WOW!

AmyL took alot of abuse for that one. They show no mercy.

Here is a little history. http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66820

You don"t need to read all 10 pages to get the idea.

Beverley · Jan 28, 2009

I have to say that on our first visit to Aruba, my husband and I immediately felt the commradery from the minute we got on the plane ... actually before we got on the plane while we were waiting for loading. This was one of the things we liked about it the most. We met people on the plane and we actually saw them on the island later that week and they stopped to talk and we felt we had met friends. Yet, we had never set eyes on them before we went to the airport. Others from the plane we at our resort (Surf Club) ... friendly nods and pool side conversation all week long. :hi:

We had bought sight unseen and were taking our first trip to see what we had purchased. We were really pleased since the resort made us feel like we were home. The Island was okay, the "wild side" was interesting, Baby Beach was quite nice, the Natural Bridge, etc., but the best was the resort and the people. Sadly, we have only been back three times since then, but hope to be going again soon. Go Aruba, Go Surf Club! :cheer:

Beverley

Latravel · Jan 29, 2009

I cannot believe how people were twisting Amyl's words (calling her stupid) and she was left defending herself. Shame. I couldn't finish reading the thread. Interesting that some were the same people who were trying to make a recent thread about depressing times as some sort of political discussion, which it was not.

So it seems like she had some valid observations? I had no idea about week 3 in Aruba. Thanks for the information so I can be sure to avoid it.

m61376 · Jan 29, 2009

Please let's not go there again. It has been pointed out numerous times that there is unfortunately an unruly group of people from the NY area that come as an extended group that week and run a bit amuck. HOWEVER, the problem with the threads are that the comments posted tend to overgeneralize one group's actions as being reflective of their ethnic background and/or residence. Please let's not lower ourselves again in that direction!

It is unfortunate that Marriott allows any group, regardless of size and money being spent, infringe upon other guests. However, I guess it is hard to force people to supervise their children and the potential for issues arise when you have a whole school of kids/friends together, which is what this large group is comprised of. For them. it is one large party.

icydog · Jan 29, 2009

We just got back from a week at the Marriott in St Thomas. There were a lot of Jewish people there. It is winter break at the Hebrew Schools in NYC, that's why so many Jewish people were there. I am half Jewish and we were traveling with our Jewish friends. We found that if we started up conversations anyone and everyone would talk to us. Of course, I grew up in NYC and had only Jewish friends so maybe down deep I am one of them. It's not the worst group to belong to either.

To add to the discussion, no matter what time of year it is, any large group will be evident at the Marriotts in Aruba. The beach is way too small, the palapas are non existent, and the pool doesn't have enough shady seats by 7 AM. It has nothing to do with "those people," it has to do with the size of the recreational facilities. If you took those large numbers of people and put them into a large resort, like Orange Lake or Disney's SSR, you wouldn't have noticed them. They would have blended in with the thousands of people already there.

jimf41 · Jan 29, 2009

m61376 said:
Please let's not go there again. It has been pointed out numerous times that there is unfortunately an unruly group of people from the NY area that come as an extended group that week and run a bit amuck. HOWEVER, the problem with the threads are that the comments posted tend to overgeneralize one group's actions as being reflective of their ethnic background and/or residence. Please let's not lower ourselves again in that direction!

It is unfortunate that Marriott allows any group, regardless of size and money being spent, infringe upon other guests. However, I guess it is hard to force people to supervise their children and the potential for issues arise when you have a whole school of kids/friends together, which is what this large group is comprised of. For them. it is one large party.

I couldn't disagree more. My first and only trip to the Marriott in Aruba was the 3rd week in January 2002. I went on points for 7 days and left after three. My wife was in tears as our long anticipated vacation was ruined by this group. I didn't know anything about this at the time even though a bartender at the hotel filled me in about this group. He said they had been thrown out of every hotel on the island and couldn't understand why Marriott let them come back. At the time I dismissed this and just thought he was making excuses for a poorly run, trashy place to vacation. That has been my impression of Aruba until this day. I could never understand why it is so popular, why it is considered a strong trader or why anyone would want to go there.

After reading the link about "week 3" I now understand that I just was in the right place at the wrong time. I think this thread should be continued so that other folks don't accidentally suffer the misery that I went through for three days. I still have bad feelings about Aruba and will probably never return but at least now when people ask me about Aruba I don't have to completely trash it. I can just say not to visit in week 3, at the Marriott anyway.

By continuing this thread on this forum and other forums people and travel agencies will eventually get the word that week 3 in Aruba is a time and place to be avoided. When that happens Marriott will be forced into rethinking their policy on this particular group of families.

icydog · Jan 29, 2009

Unfortunately any unruly subset group can give a poor representation of the larger group in which it is a member. That is obviously what is going on here. It's too bad because Jewish people, like any other people, are really nice and a lot of fun. Too bad this group has run amuck at this Marriott but I still contend it has a lot to say about how the resort is run. It's beaches and pool areas are way too small for the number of people who own there. Also allowing towels to stay on unmanned chairs or palapas is poor management as well. We found this Marriott to be the worst run in the group of Marriotts we have visited. It is horribly run and the management doesn't care what you think when you voice complaints. I wrote them up on the MVCI survey I took as well as the II survey but it seems nothing has changed there. Don't blame the group of people you met there, but more constructively, blame Marriott for not reigning them in and forcing them to adhere to basic good neighbor policies.

jimf41 · Jan 29, 2009

I have no first hand knowledge as to the ethnicity, religious preference of domicile of this group. Nor do I care. I only know that their "gang" mentality ruined my vacation and I'd like to prevent others from experiencing it in the future.

tlwmkw · Jan 29, 2009

I don't think it's the resort size that leads to this problem. I've been to many very crowded resorts and beaches (esp in Europe) and usually people maintain their own space and respect others no matter how crowded. Think of the beach at Cannes- is tiny and rocky but everyone respects those around them and I've never seen any behaviour issues there. Marriott should try to step in and control these people or ban them from the resort (as other resorts on Aruba are alleged to have done)- however if the people are owners at the resort then what can Marriott really do? I don't think these people act this way because of religion or where they come from it is just a lack of respect for others and a mob mentality.

m61376 · Jan 29, 2009

Jim-
I think you missed my point. It is not that I object to a reiteration of the week 3 situation- I agree that it is something that should have been addressed long ago. What I object to is the inevitable anti-Semitic path that the previous discussions have taken.

The bottom line is it is a large group of friends who have been allowed to run the resort and are oblivious to other guests.

And- Marilyn- the resort is wonderful at other times. The chaise by the pool issue and chair hogging is, unfortunately, similar at other resorts I've been to, so isn't unique to this property.

thinze3 · Jan 29, 2009

jimf41 said:
I have no first hand knowledge as to the ethnicity, religious preference of domicile of this group. Nor do I care. I only know that their "gang" mentality ruined my vacation and I'd like to prevent others from experiencing it in the future.

I agree. That is exactly what this forum is about - Tuggers sharing our experiences and expertise with each other.

icydog · Jan 29, 2009

Right, it's not a large number of ethnic people. It's a large number of unruly people who should be reigned in. It seems the resort has not done anything to prevent this either.

aka Julie · Jan 29, 2009

There have been similar "incidents" reported on cruise ships at holiday times. Large family groups allowing their kids to do whatever they want and adults behaving badly also. It's not just limited to land-based resorts/timeshares.

Some people just don't care if their actions negatively impact others and they will never change.

rickandcindy23 · Jan 29, 2009

I am happy to say that AmyL still posts on occasion. Good for her! I didn't see the thread before this. It did get rough, and very surprisingly so.

I was in Orlando at exactly that time last year, trying to keep from using internet every day because we were at Saratoga Springs and I didn't want to pay (I'm cheap).

Latravel · Jan 29, 2009

"I have no first hand knowledge as to the ethnicity, religious preference of domicile of this group. Nor do I care. I only know that their "gang" mentality ruined my vacation and I'd like to prevent others from experiencing it in the future."

I LOVE this response! This is exactly the point. We have to be able to make and discuss valid points without every comment being turned into something else (anti-semitic, in this case, political in another) by overly sensitive people.

I am very glad that this was brought up. If there are any other hotels/time periods where large groups congregate and act in such an obnoxious manner, I would also like to know about it.

Latravel · Jan 29, 2009

"Don't blame the group of people you met there, but more constructively, blame Marriott for not reigning them in and forcing them to adhere to basic good neighbor policies. "

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. The blame lies solely on the group of people and any attempt to deflect their responsibility is incorrect. It is not the hotels job to regulate and teach manners and decency. This group should already know "basic good neighbor policies". Marriott's only fault is they allow groups, who do not follow rules, to come back a second time.

icydog · Jan 29, 2009

Latravel said:
"Don't blame the group of people you met there, but more constructively, blame Marriott for not reigning them in and forcing them to adhere to basic good neighbor policies. "

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. The blame lies solely on the group of people and any attempt to deflect their responsibility is incorrect. It is not the hotels job to regulate and teach manners and decency. This group should already know "basic good neighbor policies". Marriott's only fault is they allow groups, who do not follow rules, to come back a second time.

Since these people feel entitled to more than their share, as referenced to the number of chairs taken with towels or palapas left unattended, then it is Marriott's job to reign them in. It is not fair to the rest of the people at the resort to suffer for the lack of policing by Marriott. I agree that the people should be policing themselves, but if not, then Marriott has the responsibility to do it for them. The resort facilities are way too small for all the owners there. It is a simple calculation X amount of space per person who is scheduled to be there. Since Marriott doesn't provide enough space per person, then anarchy will prevail and the stronger, larger, better equipped to dominate, will prevail.

Marriott should step up to the plate and empty chairs of towels, force people to use their palapas or lose them, and if they don't mind their children in public areas, they should be asked to leave those areas.

In a perfect world this would not be an issue. But since it is an issue it becomes the management's responsibility to ensure all its guests have an equal right to a nice vacation.

qlaval · Jan 29, 2009

Latravel said:
"Don't blame the group of people you met there, but more constructively, blame Marriott for not reigning them in and forcing them to adhere to basic good neighbor policies. "

...Marriott's only fault is they allow groups, who do not follow rules, to come back a second time.

Ditto.

It's like saying if you have problems with your kids blame your school....

The main problem here is ownership, as it is almost impossible to buy them back and force them out.
If this need to be settle in court...OC owners are better be patient rich and lucky....

Beach size if a factor is not the main one, the proof, the other 51 weeks are not like that.

m61376 · Jan 30, 2009

Latravel said:
I LOVE this response! This is exactly the point. We have to be able to make and discuss valid points without every comment being turned into something else (anti-semitic, in this case, political in another) by overly sensitive people.

Heidi-- Not to beat a dead horse, but if you read through last year's commentary you would realize that it wasn't "overly sensitive" people simply characterizing the comments as being something else. There were several blatant anti-Semitic posts, which is why the moderators exercised good judgment and ultimately locked the discussions.

Again, I don't disagree that all guests, regardless of their background, should be polite and respectful and that it is ultimately the resort's responsibility to make sure their regulations are followed. Guest capacity, lounge chair use, etc. can be enforced. Basic courtesy is, unfortunately, something which is harder to deal with.

As Julie pointed out, this type of behavior is not limited to a single group of people; it just happens to be a certain group in this case who behave atrociously, but that in no way should be extrapolated to reflect on the entire ethnic group.

Anyone who has been there during that time frame and has suffered accordingly should write/complain to Marriott. They may not be able to prevent owners from making reservations for their owned week, BUT they can strictly enforce room capacity and pool/beach use (lounges/umbrellas/palapas). If resort rules were strictly enforced it may go a long way to promote civility. Sorta like raising children- if you don't restrict them, they'll do whatever they want and become bolder and bolder; set restrictions and rules and they'll follow your guidelines. It is human nature to take advantage IF it's allowed.

McFail · Jan 30, 2009

While I have not stayed at the Ocean Club for week 3 I have been there for week 2 and the Friday/Saturday arrival of the week 3 crowd. The general increase in chaos was very noticeable.

I have been there many different times of the year and to both the Ocean Club and the Surf Club and that period still stands out.

Overcrowding at the Ocean Club is a non-issue in my opinion. The resort is correctly sized for it's occupancy so I don't agree with 'too crowded' comments. The Surf Club is another discussion and I don't want to be part of that.

Latravel · Jan 30, 2009

m61376 - I believe the moderator closed the thread because people were bashing AmyL not because of anti-semitic comments, which were non-existent. As the moderator stated as he closed the thread: "Thanks to those of you who have asked for the Amy bashing to end. " It's very clear.

If there were ANY anti-semitic commments, MANY people would have spoken up (of all religions, locations) and the thread would have been closed immediately. As much as you try to make it so, there just isn't any bashing going on. If there was, you would not be the only one speaking up. Let's focus on the very valid observation, nothing else.

m61376 · Jan 30, 2009

Heidi- You are entitled to your opinions, as am I. That said, there have been several posts of the same ilk over the past couple of years, and MANY of them clearly had anti-Semitic comments and several have been closed for that reason. Several people from different religions and areas have made the appropriate comments that it should not be characterized as either a religious or area issue, and I respect them for that. I am sorry you are unable or unwilling to recognize the offensive comments for what they are. I will not make any further comment.

ciscogizmo1 · Jan 31, 2009

m61376 said:
Heidi- You are entitled to your opinions, as am I. That said, there have been several posts of the same ilk over the past couple of years, and MANY of them clearly had anti-Semitic comments and several have been closed for that reason. Several people from different religions and areas have made the appropriate comments that it should not be characterized as either a religious or area issue, and I respect them for that. I am sorry you are unable or unwilling to recognize the offensive comments for what they are. I will not make any further comment.

Interesting that you focus on the religious aspect of it. I think, many people will categorize a group by what they see. So, unfortunately... this group just happens to have a religious affiliation that is easy to recognize. Just as someone who looks like a gang member will be categorized very quickly. It is unfortunate, that many people cannot look pass the obvious description of someone or something and get stuck there without realizing what the issue is. So, I really don't think people are trying to post anti-Semitic comments I just tink they are trying to describe something. A good approach is to educate people. Obviously, you know a lot about the religion and therefore, you could educate people. You could let the poster know how they shoudl be described. I'd really like to know how the poster should have described the group. I don't think in the case religion matters. Any group that takes over will definitely draw attention to themselves and sometimes not all the attention is positive.

TerriJ · Jan 31, 2009

Wow, very eye opening posts, for many reasons.

Does anyone remember this week 3 horror story?

billymach4

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jimf41

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aka Julie

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