Vacation Club Points Survey

I received a survey from MVCI today and I captured what I thought were interesting sections about the details of what they are considering with the new points system. Sorry if this has already been posted somewhere else.

Sounds like most points systems. I like it.

Well, that sounds like most points based systems. And it sure sounds like they are close to rolling it out. II will take a BIG hit if it's successful and most of the Marriott trades move to the private internal system with only the crossovers making it to II.

Sounds good to this points system owner (all my weeks have the ability or have been converted to points). Of course the cost is always the hang up so how they price it may determine how many owners sign on and thus how many weeks are available within the internal system.

Interesting information.
I think I prefer the present system and exchanges with II. I think this new program would cost more $$ ($159 to belong to the program?) and be more restrictive. With II you can often upgrade in size or season. It appears with the new Marriott points, an upgrade would cost more points. So you would lose nights (a stay of 5 nights instead of 7) or have to use points from another year.

Based on the recent changes to the MR program I don't anticipate changes that will benefit the Marriott owner. Sounds like these enhancements will make it more difficult to upgrade into a 2 bedroom, more popular resort or season.

LAX Mom said:

Interesting information.
I think I prefer the present system and exchanges with II. I think this new program would cost more $$ ($159 to belong to the program?)...

...Based on the recent changes to the MR program I don't anticipate changes that will benefit the Marriott owner. Sounds like these enhancements will make it more difficult to upgrade into a 2 bedroom, more popular resort or season.

Click to expand...

Fees will indeed determine whether this proposed program is successful. Marriott has been well known for nickel and dime-ing the details. If they try to do that here, I don't think it will be successful. People will merely opt out of the program and continue with the old.

As to assessing a points value and the practice of upgrade/downgrade trades, it looks to me like one is trading flexibility and certainty of a given trade for the possibility of an upgrade. In other words, a sort of fair value doctrine. How fair it is will be determined by the actual point assessment. A lot of people (a lot of tuggers) will complain about the loss of opportunities to upgrade to a 'better' trade for no cost, i.e. trading a sport week at Orlando's CH for a week at any of the Hawaiian Marriotts. IMHO, I look at this as a non issue...the idea of trading has alway been meant as a like for like exchange. The fact that people have been able to exploit the system doesn't mean that they should expect this, nor should they be surprised when a refinement to the system to close such loopholes comes along.

For my part as long as any fees involved are reasonable (i.e. exchanging an annual usage fee for the II annual membership fee?), I would welcome the change.

I didn't think the proposed plan took flexchange into account. I really use this aspect of II to get a bigger unit in the last 59 days.

I also don't know about paying additional $$ to belong to this new point program.

The biggest advantage to the proposed program is anyday checkin. It will make it easier to use FF miles since the greatest demand is on weekend and the new plan would allow you to fly on weekdays.

I love the option of Flexchange with II and would hate to lose this option.

Also, it bothers me that I might receive far less points for my silver weeks than a platinum week owner, but I still pay the same MF. If Marriott is going to a points based system, the MF's should not be the same for every season.

LAX Mom said:

If Marriott is going to a points based system, the MF's should not be the same for every season.

Click to expand...

Agree. I should not have to pay the same as a platinum at my resort if I don't get the same number of points.


Also, I wonder if they will devalue our timeshare using this new system. Require 25000 pts today for a week at resort X, and 15 yrs from now, require 30000 pts for the same week at resort X. All while giving me 25000 for my week.

lll1929 said:

Agree. I should not have to pay the same as a platinum at my resort if I don't get the same number of points.


Also, I wonder if they will devalue our timeshare using this new system. Require 25000 pts today for a week at resort X, and 15 yrs from now, require 30000 pts for the same week at resort X. All while giving me 25000 for my week.

Click to expand...

I agree. I, too, wonder about devaluation. $159 sounds high to me.

I own other timeshares besides Marriott and I like not having to have separate memberships for each week in II. Doesn't some of the other systems charge you for each week you own? Sounds like a potential money maker for Marriott, but probably not so good for me. Sounds like they want more money for something I already own.

Good, Bad, and Ugly

I took this survey today also.

The system seemed to have a niche for all the different kinds of users. I especially like the ability to split the week up into as many or few nights as I wanted.

I think overall this is positive news other than the lack of Flexchange (which I definitely communicated in writing where I could).

The one thing I didn't love was:

Marriott Vacation Club is considering requiring Owners to pay a one time fee of X to enroll in the new program. Assuming all of the program enhancements meet your expectations and considering this possible fee, how likely are you to enroll in this new program?

They asked the same question with X being 2000,1500, 1000, 750, 250 (Probably because I kept clicking "Would definitely not pay this").

I understand that new web sites and roles will need to be created to facilitate this system and thats where the cost is going to be allocated, I just don't think I'm getting a marginally better bang for my buck over II at the moment. The costs for the website are going to have to be recouped over the various service charges.

If there was an option like:

Pay a one time fee of X and NEVER pay a service charge again (only annual dues) I think that'd work for me.

But to pay the one time fee and pay per exchange would probably not make this worthwhile in my opinion.

What does everyone else think?

What I captured

Ok, I see that wasn't captured in the original post, I'll add what I pasted from the survey I took also.

Thanks to another TUGger, here is a more complete look at the survey. See the bullet-oriented bold text way down this post for some of the key topics.

Start of Survey:

Considering your current life-style and general vacation planning behavior, when is the best time for you to make reservations for your accommodations for stays of 3 nights or more. Please assume 100% availability for all resorts at the point of time when you prefer to make your reservations:

Less than 3 months prior to occupancy (meaning, for a trip in May 2010 you would make the reservation in February 2010)
3 – 6 months prior to occupancy (meaning, for a trip in May 2010 you would make the reservation in between November 2009 and February 2010)
7 – 9 months prior to occupancy (meaning, for a trip in May 2010 you would make the reservation in between August 2009 and October 2009)
10 – 12 months prior to occupancy (meaning, for a trip in May 2010 you would make the reservation in between May 2009 and July 2009)
12+ months prior to occupancy (meaning, for a trip in May 2010 you would make the reservation before May 2009)


Marriott Vacation Club is considering the introduction of a new usage option for its current Owners focused on enhancing the flexibility of the current product. Today an Owner buys a deeded week which he/she can use in weekly increments at either his/her Home Resort, trade for other resorts within the Marriott system, access an Interval International affiliated resort or trade for Marriott Rewards points.

The future use options may enable the Owner to break up his/her week into smaller increments of 3 or more nights (possibly even nightly increments) including weekend stays, check-in any day of the week or bank/borrow parts or all of his/her week in the future to stay at a Marriott Vacation Club resort. All this added flexibility is enabled through a points based exchange program referred to in the following questions as the Vacation Points Exchange Program.

If choosing to enroll, the Owner may either receive Vacation Points for a short-term period (such as up to three years) or in perpetuity (indefinitely). Each year, an annual allotment of Vacation Points would be credited to the Owner for use. The plan is considering the administration of all exchanges (internal within the Marriott Vacation Club system, external to affiliated Interval International resort, trades for Marriott Rewards Points) within the Marriott Vacation Club system to be managed through Marriott Vacation Club instead of Interval International. If an Owner chooses NOT to enroll, he/she would continue to use his/her vacation ownership just like today.

In the future, if enrolling into the Vacation Points Exchange Program, an Owner might take several trips of different durations to different Marriott Vacation Club resorts within a year. Or he/she might take one trip and bank the remainder of his Vacation Points balance for the next year use. Or he/she might take a trip of 5 nights to a highly demanded resort during peak season. The new flexibility of the program would enable the Owner to customize his/her vacation according to his/her preferences, enabling many different possibilities to vacation with Marriott Vacation Club.

An Owner could participate in the Vacation Points Exchange Program by enrolling one or more of their current weeks. Based on the unit type and season, they would receive an annual allocation of Vacation Points, which are then available for use. At the end of each year, your unused Vacation Points would either be 'banked' into the next year or expire and you would receive your next annual allocation of Vacation Points.

Weeks which are in high demand (demand is based on following factors: resort owned, week owned, view owned) will be worth more Vacation Points than those weeks which are in less demand. Future vacation options would be evaluated based on the same criteria. For example, Ski Season in Park City, UT would require more Vacation Points than Hilton Head during the winter. It is therefore possible that when trading in your week you might not have enough Vacation Points available to access a particular resort at the time of year you desire. In that case you would have the option of banking and borrowing or purchasing more Vacation Points. Conversely, if you have a highly demanded week you might have more than enough Vacation Points to access the resort of your choosing and could use the remaining Vacation Points for another trip.

For example, assume you own a 2-bedroom Villa during Platinum season, and you're given an annual allocation of 28,900 Vacation Points. The following are four hypothetical scenarios of how you could use your 28,900 Vacation Points in the future:

Option 1 - Minimal change, use your full points for a full week at a resort you desire

* Go to Myrtle Beach during Platinum season and stay in a 2-bedroom villa for 7 nights.

Option 2 - Change the number of bedroom and access a more highly demanded resort during peak season

* Go to the Caribbean to stay at a 1 bedroom during Platinum season for 7 nights

Option 3 - Change the number of days and season when you travel and turn 7 days into 14 days

* Go to Las Vegas to stay at a 1-bedroom during Platinum Season for a weekend (2 nights), AND go to Mountain Region resort to stay at a 2-bedroom during Silver Season for 7 nights AND go to Orlando to stay at a 2-bedroom during Gold Season for 5 weekday night

Option 4 - Bank one year of Vacation Points to go to Hawaii

* Through banking one year of Points, you will have 57,800 Points
* Go to Hawaii for a 2-bedroom during Platinum Season for 7 nights and still have 9,000 Vacation Points to bank to the following year

20. Today, you trade your week hoping to be confirmed into a high demand destination. In the Vacation Points Exchange Program, your current week may not provide you with the annual Vacation Points required to access a 2-bedroom villa at/during a high-demand destination or week, but you would know the required Vacation Points needed to access the high demand destination prior to making the reservation.

What do you think about the concept that in the new program not all weeks equal the same number of Vacation Points?



Consolidated Service Fee

In the Vacation Points Exchange Program, fees that are currently paid on a per transaction basis may be consolidated (with the exception of maintenance fees). For example, currently Owners pay the following fees (depending on usage) when using their week.

Reservation change fee


$29

Lock-off Use


$75

Split-week Use


$75

Interval International Annual Membership Fee


$64

Interval International Internal Exchange Fee


$99

Domestic Trade for Marriott Rewards Points


$104

International Trade for Marriott Rewards Points


$124

Interval International External Exchange Fee Domestic


$139

Interval International External Exchange Fee International


$154

In the Vacation Points Exchange Program, there may be an annual fee of $159 which may include these and other transaction fees currently paid on a per transaction basis.

All internal reservations to Marriott Vacation Club resorts may be managed through Marriott Vacation Club. You would no longer use Interval International to trade to another Marriott Vacation Club resort. Trading to a resort outside of the Marriott Vacation Club system would still require the use of Interval International, but this may be managed through Marriott Vacation Club.




Reservation Window - The reservation window is the period during which you are able to make a reservation for varying lengths of stay. Currently you can book either 13 or 12 months before your arrival date depending on the number of weeks you own. Please assume at the time of reservation you have enough Vacation Points available to make that reservation. Marriott Vacation Club is considering setting the reservation window as follows:

* Reservations can be made 12 months before date of occupancy, with a requirement to make reservations of 7 nights or more
* At 6 months before date of occupancy reservations can be booked for 3 nights or more
* At 1 month before date of occupancy, reservations can be booked in nightly increments

Weekend Stays - As part of the Vacation Points Exchange Program, Marriott Vacation Club is considering offering Weekend stays. You would check in on a Friday or Saturday and check out on Sunday or Monday.

If you were limited to one weekend stay per quarter how would you rate the appeal?

Home Resort Guarantee - As part of the Vacation Points Exchange Program an option may be offered to retain the home resort priority you currently have with your week. A new option may be offered in addition to, or in place of your home resort priority that would guarantee a fixed week at the resort where you currently own for a period of 3 years. This option would be limited to a specific percentage of villas for each week of the year.

# Assuming you enrolled in the Vacation Points Exchange Program, would you be willing to pay a fee for a Home Resort Guarantee?

Preferred Resort Priority - Instead of a Home Resort Guarantee, what if you had priority access to a group of similar resorts (such as beach locations, golf resorts etc) for a period of time? For example, if you could specify that for the next three years you would have priority access to any property within the Marriott Vacation Club system that has direct beach access. Similarly, what if you could pick the three specific resorts within the Marriott Vacation Club system you want to stay at for the next three years and have a priority access to those resorts?

Assume you enroll your week into the Vacation Points Exchange Program and you receive 25,000 Vacation Points. This would be equivalent to the number of Vacation Points a first time buyer would receive for a $25,000 purchase. How likely would you be to pay a fee of $3750 to have a Preferred Resort Priority for a three year period?

Assume you enroll your week into the Vacation Points Exchange Program and you receive 25,000 Vacation Points. This would be equivalent to the number of Vacation Points a first time buyer would receive for a $25,000 purchase. How likely would you be to pay a fee of $750 to have a Preferred Resort Priority for a three year period?

Assume you enroll your week into the Vacation Points Exchange Program and you receive 25,000 Vacation Points. This would be equivalent to the number of Vacation Points a first time buyer would receive for a $25,000 purchase. How likely would you be to pay a fee of $1250 to have a Preferred Resort Priority for a three year period?

Assume you enroll your week into the Vacation Points Exchange Program and you receive 25,000 Vacation Points. This would be equivalent to the number of Vacation Points a first time buyer would receive for a $25,000 purchase. How likely would you be to pay a fee of $1875 to have a Preferred Resort Priority for a three year period?

To recap, the main elements of the Vacation Points Exchange Program include the following:

* Consolidated Service Fee
* All internal exchanges managed by Marriott Vacation Club
* Reservation Window (ability to make the reservation at the point most convenient to you)
* Any Day Check-In
* Weekend Stays
* Home Resort Guarantee
* Preferred Resort Priority
* Banking/Borrowing
* Variable length of vacation
* Flexible number of bedrooms

Marriott Vacation Club is considering requiring Owners to pay a one time fee of $2000 to enroll in the new program. Assuming all of the program enhancements meet your expectations and considering this possible fee, how likely are you to enroll in this new program?

Marriott Vacation Club is considering requiring Owners to pay a one time fee of $1500 to enroll in the new program. Assuming all of the program enhancements meet your expectations and considering this possible fee, how likely are you to enroll in this new program?

Marriott Vacation Club is considering requiring Owners to pay a one time fee of $1000 to enroll in the new program. Assuming all of the program enhancements meet your expectations and considering this possible fee, how likely are you to enroll in this new program?

# Marriott Vacation Club is considering requiring Owners to pay a one time fee of $500 to enroll in the new program. Assuming all of the program enhancements meet your expectations and considering this possible fee, how likely are you to enroll in this new program?

Marriott Vacation Club is considering requiring Owners to pay a one time fee of $250 to enroll in the new program. Assuming all of the program enhancements meet your expectations and considering this possible fee, how likely are you to enroll in this new program?

If Marriott implements the above described Vacation Points Exchange Program, new properties may be sold within this program. Rather than selling a deeded week, Marriott would be offering a certain amount of Vacation Points for sale. These Vacation Points could then be used in the same way as you would use your Vacation Points if you enroll your week.

If Marriott implements the above described Vacation Points Exchange Program, new properties may be sold within this program. Rather than selling a deeded week, Marriott would be offering a certain amount of Vacation Points for sale. These Vacation Points could then be used in the same way as you would use your Vacation Points if you enroll your week.

If you are currently using your timeshare to trade for Marriott Rewards Points, would you imagine changing your behavior given the new program that was described in this survey?

I think this sounds alot like Starwood and the StarOptions. I didn't get a survey so I was wondering: If you did use II for an external exchange did the survey say anything about Marriott picking the week for exchange for you (like SVN) or do you still get to pick a week at your home resort that you want to exchange? Thanx

Who received this survey?

That will tell us something about Marriott's thinking -- was it sent to only developer purchasers, to multiple week owners, to some or all resale owners, etc.?

Not that it matters; Marriott is probably just doing its first round of market research.

FWIW -- we own two eoy Waiohai weeks purchased resale and did not receive the survey -- at least yet.

That is very interesting. One thing is for sure, the rumor of a proposed plan is no longer a rumor, it's fact!

It appears that they have closed up the loopholes that we have all enjoyed as far as trading up to a better unit or season. You will get exactly what you paid for. I'm sure they must have something like flexchange to get rid of the inventory that is available at the last minute. Depending on how they replace flexchange is what will determine if I would join. Most of my travels are last minute.

Survey says....

vacationtime1 said:

That will tell us something about Marriott's thinking -- was it sent to only developer purchasers, to multiple week owners, to some or all resale owners, etc.?

Click to expand...

I'm sure they're targeting various demographics.

I only own the Cypress Harbor resale today (since I bought from my dad it might not be technically be a resale). The other week I sort of accidentally won on ebay (It happens).

I'm also unmarried and 29 which might put me on some short list of "People to Survey".

vacationtime1 said:

That will tell us something about Marriott's thinking -- was it sent to only developer purchasers, to multiple week owners, to some or all resale owners, etc.?

Not that it matters; Marriott is probably just doing its first round of market research.

FWIW -- we own two eoy Waiohai weeks purchased resale and did not receive the survey -- at least yet.

Click to expand...

I received the survey and we are resale owner.

Hold on to your wallet!!!

Dave M said:

Option 1 - Minimal change, use your full points for a full week at a resort you desire

* Go to Myrtle Beach during Platinum season and stay in a 2-bedroom villa for 7 nights.

Option 2 - Change the number of bedroom and access a more highly demanded resort during peak season

* Go to the Caribbean to stay at a 1 bedroom during Platinum season for 7 nights

Option 3 - Change the number of days and season when you travel and turn 7 days into 14 days

* Go to Las Vegas to stay at a 1-bedroom during Platinum Season for a weekend (2 nights), AND go to Mountain Region resort to stay at a 2-bedroom during Silver Season for 7 nights AND go to Orlando to stay at a 2-bedroom during Gold Season for 5 weekday night

Option 4 - Bank one year of Vacation Points to go to Hawaii

* Through banking one year of Points, you will have 57,800 Points
* Go to Hawaii for a 2-bedroom during Platinum Season for 7 nights and still have 9,000 Vacation Points to bank to the following year

20. Today, you trade your week hoping to be confirmed into a high demand destination. In the Vacation Points Exchange Program, your current week may not provide you with the annual Vacation Points required to access a 2-bedroom villa at/during a high-demand destination or week, but you would know the required Vacation Points needed to access the high demand destination prior to making the reservation.

What do you think about the concept that in the new program not all weeks equal the same number of Vacation Points?

Click to expand...

I think this proposed system is cause for major concern. The sections I have quoted above are the ones that I dislike the most. If Marriott implements the system as described in the survey, then many currrent 2 bedroom platinum owners will not have enough Vacation Points to exchange into a 2 bedroom villa during platinum season at a lot of higher demand resorts. This would be a major change for Marriott, and it would be a huge negative for owners of resorts like Manor Club. If I can't exchange my Manor Club platinum week for a platinum week at Grande Ocean or Newport Coast Villas without borrowing or buying extra points, then I don't want to own at Manor Club.

Owners of resorts in Hawaii and Aruba might be happy at the outset as they will get more than enough points for a similar week in a lesser demand resort. In the long run, however, even they might get discouraged. The reason: Marriott will certainly charge more Vacation Points for the new resorts it builds. For example, if the new system were in place today, I'm sure that Marriott would be charging more Vacation Points for Lakeshore Reserve, Marco Island, and Oceana Palms than they charge for Grande Vista, Beachplace Towers, and Ocean Pointe.

This would be a way for Marriott to encourage current owners to upgrade to newer resorts...and to purchase additional Vacation Points. As a Marriott shareholder, it's probably good news for me...as it will probably increase profits. But it will devalue the ownerships of current MVCI owners. I don't like it.

Steve

lll1929 said:

I didn't think the proposed plan took flexchange into account. I really use this aspect of II to get a bigger unit in the last 59 days.

I also don't know about paying additional $$ to belong to this new point program.

The biggest advantage to the proposed program is anyday checkin. It will make it easier to use FF miles since the greatest demand is on weekend and the new plan would allow you to fly on weekdays.

Click to expand...

The any day checkin was really an only option for shorter stays. One of the questions asked how you felt about the idea of Marriott only allowing Fri-Sun checkin for stays of seven night.

mas said:

A lot of people (a lot of tuggers) will complain about the loss of opportunities to upgrade to a 'better' trade for no cost, i.e. trading a sport week at Orlando's CH for a week at any of the Hawaiian Marriotts. IMHO, I look at this as a non issue...the idea of trading has alway been meant as a like for like exchange.

Click to expand...

No one is exploiting the system in this situation. The like for like may not only be in unit size. Why shouldn't someone be able to exchange their 1BR for a 2BR as long as they are willing to exchange in to a lower season or risk not getting their exchange?
I personally have exchanged a studio in to a 2BR and haven't exploited anyone. I exchanged my high demand week for a low demand season. If I have the flexibility to exchange on short notice then there is nothing wrong with that to clean up excess inventory, even if it means going up in unit size. Apparently II doesn’t consider this exploiting or they wouldn’t allow it.
By removing this ability Marriott would be devaluating all weeks currently owned by all owners. If the option is there now it makes the TS valuable to me, if the option is gone tomorrow the ownership will be less valuable. One is already paying a premium for Marriott and being able to do this is great. If it were gone, there wouldn't be a benefit over owning somewhere that I can buy for $1 resale.

It will be interesting to see how this proposed change affects the MVCI property values (which are already in the tank due to the economy).

Does anyone think it will increase the resale values and why?

Does anyone think it will hurt the resale values and why?

I love this points idea, and hope Marriott puts it in place.

I have owned Marriott for several years, and recently bought a Hilton unit. I absolutely love Hilton's points-based system. I can go to their web site and see what is available for any resort in the system. If I see what I want, I just click it and it is done. Easy! Hilton has a three month window (from 12 to 9 months in advance) when you can book exactly what you own (home resort, same season, same unit type, etc). At the 9 month point you can book any available resort in the system, any unit type, and any number of nights starting at three. Within a very short window (maybe 30 days) you can book single days. I've done some checking recently and would not have trouble using my Vegas points in Hawaii, even next spring or summer.

Seems like the biggest losers in the new system would be retirees or others who can travel at the last minute, and in the off season. They'll lose the ability to trade a studio into a 2 BR with flexchange. But I have kids in school, and plan my vacations 9 - 12 months in advance. We always need to travel when school is out. So I think this new system would be perfect for us.

There should be a grace period where all current owners can enroll without ANY fee - don't we already own these weeks/points and doesn't Marriott NEED our weeks/points to implement their new system???

It is interesting that Marriott mentioned the '3 year period' - similar to the committment to the RCI points program.

This survey isn't very helpful in deciding whether or not this will be a good program.

What would be more helpful is if they provide a point table for all the resorts and given what you own, how likely would you particpate if the cost to enter were X dollars.

The major success factor for this program will what percentage of owners will just enroll? I think they need at least 25% of all resorts to take up the offer or there won't be much inventory.

The requirement for all internal exchanges means basically that once you turn your week into points, Marriott manages the inventory. That is required and the only way it can actually work.

A better way to go is for Marriott just to buy back inventory at all resorts and then sell them again as points. Charge an upgrade fee to take your week and turn it into points.

GrayFal said:

There should be a grace period where all current owners can enroll without ANY fee - don't we already own these weeks/points and doesn't Marriott NEED our weeks/points to implement their new system???

It is interesting that Marriott mentioned the '3 year period' - similar to the committment to the RCI points program.

Click to expand...

I agree. But we only own the weeks at our own resorts. Not the ability to exchange. It did seem like all new retail purchases would be in to the new system, so they would get some inventory that way. Though not much in the current market.

I am a multiple week owner. My typical usage pattern is to reserve a number of consecutive and/or concurrent weeks 13 months out. I then rent some of the weeks out, for cash, and use some of the weeks. I am not all that interested in exchanging, either through II or through a new internal program. Anyone have any thoughts on what, if anything, this new points program might mean for such a usage pattern? For example, it wasnt clear what, if anything, their thinking is in terms of the 12 month/ 13 month rule, and whether it would be retained, at least for those who do not elect to participate in a new points program.