[June Thread] It's Hard to be Green!

No, not something Kermit said!

I mean, it's hard for a person to do something about energy and resource conservation. . . you know, the Green Movement . . . you've heard of it?

I don't mean that it is hard to change your habits, cuz it's not. Instead of putting all your waste in a plastic bag to go to the landfill, you just sort it . . . cardboard, tin cans, aluminum, etc., and take it to Recycle.

What I mean is having to deal with the non-Green people.

Like at work, three of us have started recycling on our own, sorting the trash and taking the aluminum home every day. Actually, it's saving money for (the company) because it has cut down on the amount of trash, trash bags, etc. We still get all our work done so it's not costing (the company) any more for our efforts.

One, older, set-in-his ways guy just laughs at us, makes fun of us and insults us, with comments like, "if you need a coupla bucks, I can help you guys out." He makes a point of making fun of us at least once a day.

He's totally clueless to what's going on in the world.

So, the Green Movement has to expend their energy doing the things it takes to be Green, plus the extra energy to deal with the detractors, carrying their load, too, and having to deal with them.

Anyone else run into this?

PS: Yesterday, after insulting me early, he tossed his soda can in the can barrel later.

Keep up the good work. Ignore the old guy. He'll change eventually, but in the mean time your efforts will be appreciated. Even here where we live, we have a great city recycling program but you can tell the people who don't really bother. But I just look at it in a positive way and see all the people who are trying to do something.

I think we are the only household in our street to recycle anything. Our community has 2 large County-supplied containers, 1 with separate sections for plastic bottles, aluminium & cardboard and the other for newspapers, magazines & unwanted junk mail & office junk mail. As it is approx. 5 miles round trip (through a conservation section between one side of the community and the other) I take the recycling by car only when I'm over that way, or I use the golf cart. We also have containers for yard trash although the County does come around twice a month to pick up from the kerb. I have very close (in proximity only) neighbors who never recycle & use the nearest building contractor dumpster (they're still building) for their yard trash! The very same people do not adhere to the watering restrictions either, so definitely not Green at all!

We are often dissapointed to find timeshare resorts not recycling. We sort our 'recyclable trash' in our unit into grocery store bags (newspaper & boxboard, glass, plastic & aluminum) and when we take it to the proper area for disposal there are no containers for them, just 1 large dumpster. Recycling is very big up here with new 'compost green bins' for kitchen waste (potato peelings, egg shells...) being used by many municipalities for those that dont or cant compost in their yard. The special bags are picked up with the regular recycling stuff on trash day. We have to take care of our planet so there is something left for our children and grandchildren to enjoy.
~Diane

When traveling

What has amazed us in the past was the resorts that did the least to recycle were usually either mountain resorts or near lakes. I would have thought they would have been first.
We have recycled for years because our kids started learning about this in grammar school so for us it started 19 years ago.
The best resort we found for this was Pacific Shores, Canada.
The developer was into landscaping and even had small composting bins outside each 2 units for food items (greens, grinds, etc). We thought this was a fantastic idea and have never seen it anywhere else.
Nowadays I'm more into watching then my kids though it is because they just get plain lazy at times.
I certainly admire anyone that I see making the extra effort.
Bart

The 'old guy' is probably sick of people shoving the 'green agenda' down his throat - just like I am. I'm not against recycling, I'm against people who think they know what I should do better than I do.

A variation on the theme is what are known as "Chuggers" in the UK - Charity Muggers! They accost you in the street with their clipboard and superior smile, trying to convince you to sign up to support whatever charity with regular payment from your bank account. It's the line "It's only x per month. I'm sure you can spare that". Just who the **** do they think they are to (a) tell me what I can afford (b) tell me what to spend my money on?
My usual response is to tell them that I will decide which charities to support and on what basis I will support them. Also that whoever I do support I will support directly; I'm not going to pay their wages!

Rant over.

Whoa there, big boy!

No one is asking him to do anything, not asking him to help out or change his habits in any way and no one is ramming any policy down his throat. He can throw his cans anywhere he wants. Later on, after he's left for the day so as to not raise the issue, one of us puts them in the recycle bin.

He is not being forced to hug a tree.

He is just going out of his way to make a point about it, so he can make fun of those trying to do good. Exactly what you are saying, what you are upset about, he enjoys telling us he knows what's best for us to do better than we do, get it?

As others have said, we do our best to just ignore him, but he keeps it up.

Still side with him?

Keitht said:

The 'old guy' is probably sick of people shoving the 'green agenda' down his throat - just like I am. I'm not against recycling, I'm against people who think they know what I should do better than I do.

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BTW, Sir, to compare me with someone who accosts people on the street and harasses them, shaking them down for money, just because I toss aluminum cans in a recycle bin, is a bit extreme, don't you think?

I can tell by that type of reply that folks really have tripped your trigger!!!

So sorry for you, that your personal experiences are so disturbing.

I'm with Keith on this. While I done things to be more environmentaly friendly, such as having all CSF lights in my house, replacing all outdoor Christmas lights with LED lights, using the cloth resuable bags at the grocery store et..... I do NOT like people shoving things down my throat.

At work it gets busy and sometime's I will forget and toss a can in the regular trash can. I catch flack for it from a couple of co-workers. All that makes me want to do is stick the can somewhere else and I'm not talking about the recycle bin.

I believe Keith was only saying that, while he's not against recycling, he's against groups that attempt to force their will upon others. Perhaps a better example would be the forcing of restrictive taxes on airline departures for some European airports. I read a thread this week where some yahoo is attempting to get a 100 Euro depature tax placed on all departures in an attempt to cut down the number of people flying, thus cutting down the number of departures and cutting back the amount of greenhouse gas produced by airlines (because no one can afford to fly thanks to the taxes).

No stuff like that tends to make my blood boil. Especially since I believe that global warming has been and is a natural cycle of the Earth. Just like global cooling, which will be a much worse scenario than many will ever imagine. (research the year without a summer or the year 1800 and froze to death).

Again, and in fear of coming down with acute repititous, and have to go visit Doug in the ER , no one is asking/suggesting/ demanding/forcing anyone to do anything. If you understand that, could you please shake your head?

Wow, just one head shaking???!!!

It is "Old Guy" co-worker who is going out of his way to make fun of and insult people who are not bothering him in any way.

Just curious, did I explain this wrong in the OP, or in my re-explanation of the OP? Am I explaining it properly now, in my re-explanation of the re-explanation of the OP?

Or, are folks just looking for a bandwagon, a cause du jour, today?

I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench into this by adding information that likely will be inadvertently, or advertently , misinterpreted, but for some time, some of what I will call our customers have found it strange, almost offensive, that we were previously making no attempt at all to conserve, recycle, and be Green. They were offended by that.

This is not a company-wide, just our little department. The rest of the company is still gathering up all of their trash in plastic bags and it is going to the landfill.

Next, we go through a bajillion foam cups a day, some that don't get used at all (as people pull foam cups out of the dispenser, a second one often comes out, too, and falls to the floor, then goes into the trash barrel, unused), and all of which go to the landfill in plastic bags. They cost the company money, and there are alternatives.

AT work they have a suggestion box. Several times I put in to place recycle bins in the break room, as employees pitch a ton of aluminum and plastic, and the corporation as a whole was taking measures to conserve and recycle.
Finally our place did. I only hope the materials are actually brought to a recycling center and not put in the trash when we are gone.
In another arena, I want to conserve on electricity and bought quite a few of the EXPENSIVE low energy light bulbs that should last for years. Three burned out in a couple months. Not worth it if that is going to be the norm.

JLB said:

Next, we go through a bajillion foam cups a day, some that don't get used at all, and all of which go to the landfill in plastic bags. They cost the company money, and there are alternatives.

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Where I worked the past 7 years we were at least pretty good about bringing our own coffee mugs, or using one donated to the cause, and having no foam waste of this sort. There's also a big barrel by the copy machine for paper recycling, and a bin for aluminum cans from the soda machine.

Oddly, I was transferred to a new facility that although provided dishware in the eating area, only had barrels for all trash which usually consisted of plastic cups for "goodie day Fridays", and foam containers from the cafeteria. Sort of a mixed effort on the company's part.

Marty

Not that I am a loyal Oprah follower, but I happened to catch the show where they Greened up Harpo.

Employees agreed to bring their own real coffee cups and mugs, having foam ones just for the guests. The employees like having their own real ones better.

Not accounting for trash savings, it cut $41000 annually in their foam cup expense. So environmental benefits aside, companies are discovering that being Green is good for the bottom line.

Just wondering, for those who have somewhat taken offense by this thread, when you see an aluminum can bin next to a regular trash bin, but no one is forcing you or telling you you have to use the aluminum can bin, does its mere presence set you off like my situation seems to have?

Kona Lovers said:

Where I worked the past 7 years we were at least pretty good about bringing our own coffee mugs, or using one donated to the cause, and having no foam waste of this sort. There's also a big barrel by the copy machine for paper recycling, and a bin for aluminum cans from the soda machine.

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Sometimes "being green" just creates other problems...

An example: A friend of mine is thinking of putting in a tankless water heater, thus saving on her gas bill. Sounds good, right? But if her shower isn't near her water heater, doesn't she waste water waiting for it to heat up? You can recover it, but how much recovered water can you use (since we already have drippers for our desert landscaping)? We have a water shortage here, so saving on her gas only makes the water situation worse.

That's not to say we don't do many things:

• We recycle paper, newsprint, glass, aluminum and plastics
• We use compact fluorescent lighting
• I use cloth bags at the supermarket, drugstore, etc (I carry two folded up ones in my purse all the time
• We have only desert landscaping with drippers, not sprinklers
• We use organic cleaners for our counter tops, etc
• I use the least amount of laundry detergent that will do the job
• We like to read magazines, but we pass them on to friends when we are done with them. Always. Books go to a local lending library.

I know there are many other things we do, but those are off the top of my head.

Like Keith, I hate to be accosted by people to donate to their favorite charity d'jour. The grocery stores are good at this. They ring up your groceries and then ask if you'd like to make a donation to this or that charity. I smile and tell them I donate to my own favorites. I think it is invasive and shouldn't be done. Its definitely irritating.

Fern

JLB said:

Just curious, did I explain this wrong in the OP, or in my re-explanation of the OP? Am I explaining it properly now, in my re-explanation of the re-explanation of the OP?

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I think you have been completely clear each time. You were expressing annoyance at the set-in-his-ways guy's persistent comments. I would be too, and would maybe try to come up with some kind of joke (don't know what). Or just say "Yup, I know your opinion, and you know mine, so guess we'll just have to agree to disagree."

I've run into similar situations bunches of times - once a man we know, a generation or so older - would always call me sweetie, toots, honey-bunch, and so forth. I know he didn't mean anything other than friendliness, but it did get to me....finally one day I put my arm around his waist and called him Toots. Funny thing, he never did it again.

My Karate instructor often makes comments to the class that grate on me - limp-wrist anti-gay types of things - I just roll my eyes at him; he's probably not going to stop his comments, and I'm not going to stop expressing my dismay at them.

Anyway, back to the question I'm answering - It was completely clear to me that you were discussing Mr. Needs-to-make-a-comment's constant comments and not taking on the green agenda.

Patri said:

..........In another arena, I want to conserve on electricity and bought quite a few of the EXPENSIVE low energy light bulbs that should last for years. Three burned out in a couple months. Not worth it if that is going to be the norm.

Click to expand...

I've converted every light possible to CSF lights. I started maybe two years ago. In that time I've had 4 bad lights that burnt out after only a few months of service. Irritating yes but not the norm as the remaining lights, including the one's I burn in our outdoor lights all night long, are still going strong (watch the porch lights be burnt out when I get home this morning).

Fern Modena said:

Sometimes "being green" just creates other problems...

An example: A friend of mine is thinking of putting in a tankless water heater, thus saving on her gas bill. Sounds good, right? But if her shower isn't near her water heater, doesn't she waste water waiting for it to heat up? You can recover it, but how much recovered water can you use (since we already have drippers for our desert landscaping)? We have a water shortage here, so saving on her gas only makes the water situation worse.........

Fern

Click to expand...

Another area of concern that the media likes to gloss over are the wind turbines that are popping up in different spots. It seems that they have a tendency to wipe out birds that don't see the turbine's turning and fly into them. I'm wondering what the effect is going to be in the long run on the bird population as wind generated power becomes more popular. Here in KS I'm starting to see a few wind farms being built and one school has even had a wind turbine installed to help generate power.

I was watching a program the other day on Germany's push towards renewable energy sources and the use of solar panels. Farmers are encourage to use acerage for sun farms to generate electricty with government subsidies. I'm wondering if the loss of crop land is going to have any unexpected far reaching consequences.

Here in KS I'd be happy to have solar panels installed on my roof if there were incentives or if it were more cost effective. Right now it's just to expensive to have them installed for to little return. Approx. savings per month on utilities would be between $60 to $100, depending on the number of panels installed and the cost would be between $10,000 upwards of $40,000. That's just to imbalaned to be practical. And then there's the damage I fear hail would do. So far this year we've had at least three hail storms go throug and last year I can recall at least two. I wonder how my homeowners insurance would be affected if there were concerns over repairing damage to solar cells from hail damage.

JLB said:

BTW, Sir, to compare me with someone who accosts people on the street and harasses them, shaking them down for money, just because I toss aluminum cans in a recycle bin, is a bit extreme, don't you think?

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Jim,

I wasn't comparing you with anything or anybody. I was commenting on the general situation. As I said in my original post I'm not against recycling.

JLB said:

BTW, Sir, ......

I can tell by that type of reply that folks really have tripped your trigger!!!

So sorry for you, that your personal experiences are so disturbing.

Click to expand...

BTW, Sir,

If your standard reaction to anybody who disagrees with your views is to attempt to belittle them, I can certainly understand why the "old guy" reacts in the way he does.

JLB, you've explained yourself very well. I feel that there will always be some opinion or reason why something new isn't feasible, like the wind turbines. But in the long run they are very effective in producing energy. Not meaning to sound facetious, but we attract alot of birds in our yard, and quite a few fly directly at our windows, so do I not put out bird feeders or do I eliminate my windows. We've also looked into the tankless gas water heater and will probably be putting one in in the near future. I don't think I'd be wasting much water, even with the regular system I have to run the water a bit to get the hot water coming even though we've insulated all our hot water pipes. So in the long run we'd be saving energy in heating the water.

June 12 is “CARBON BELCH DAY”!

I plan to do my part by turning on an extra light or two. I’ll also drive into town, cut my lawn and burn trash on the twelfth.

I was pretty clear in my reply to your reply, I thought, but to re-explain that also, it appeared that you were comparing my tossing cans in a recycling bin, without asking anyone else to do anything at all, to people who have accosted you in the street and shaken you down.

Just curious . . . how did you make that trip . . . from what I am doing to what they do . . . and see a similarity?

How did you go from evergy and resource conservation to harassing people?

Keitht said:

BTW, Sir,

If your standard reaction to anybody who disagrees with your views is to attempt to belittle them, I can certainly understand why the "old guy" reacts in the way he does.

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If it wasn't for the fact that this one, and only one, old guy is so persistent in his critical comments, as if there is a reward for finding fault, so that his continual nit-picking builds up to a critical fault, and he always seems to do it when you are least expecting it, like giving someone a wedgie , perhaps I would have had something witty to reply.

This crack just caught me wrong, perhaps because some of the newer guys have told me that he is doing it to them also.

His joke and sense of humor always has to do with insulting somebody, tearing them down to build himself up. We hang out with friends who do that sorta thing, but everyone knows it's all kidding. With old guy it is not kidding; we don't have that kind of relationship. He's just a guy I'm forced to be with, as I am to him.

In hindsight, perhaps the best way to have dealt with it would have been to have held out my hand and said, "OK," (Remember, he offered me $2 . . . cuz I'm so hard up.) and continued what I was doing.

pjrose said:

I think you have been completely clear each time. You were expressing annoyance at the set-in-his-ways guy's persistent comments. I would be too, and would maybe try to come up with some kind of joke (don't know what). Or just say "Yup, I know your opinion, and you know mine, so guess we'll just have to agree to disagree."

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Old guy probably does that, too, when he doesn't have me handy.

Chrisky said:

I don't think I'd be wasting much water, even with the regular system I have to run the water a bit to get the hot water coming even though we've insulted all our hot water pipes.

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Actually, this thread is about people behaving badly, but I knew that because it is over the Green Movement that we would go down that road.

Probably if he had insulted me because I floss my teeth after lunch (if I did), we would now be talking about dental care.

Old Guy also does the same thing when I post notes so that our co-workers on other shifts will know what's going on, so I guess we could have a discussion about posting notes or trying to inform co-workers. Perhaps old guy makes an issue about me trying to keep co-workers informed because he wants them to be as clueless as he is. Ya think?

But as long as we are making semi-related comments about energy conservation, rather than bad behavior, yeah, we have been converting over to mini-flourescents, as incandescents burn out and as there are specials on the new ones. Actually, we had some in the city before coming here, before they were really in vogue and improved. I can't recall that any have stopped working yet.

But I do have other complaints about them, mostly that they do not fit in some of our applications.

As far as it taking a long time for hot water to get to faucets, we would be in the running for that reward, if there is one, but, gosh, since we are on a well, isn't that a free resource that we will never run out of?