Flights to HI (ATA and Aloha)

DavidnRobin · Apr 3, 2008

Link to HI forum
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=499697#post499697

For those of you that live in the Bay Area - there are no more direct flights out of Oakland to HI now that ATA and Aloha are out of business. I came very close to booking on ATA to OGG for ~$100pp less, but went with UA instead out of SFO - glad I did...

Westin5Star · Apr 3, 2008

WOW- We almost always fly ATA from LAX to Maui because we like the flight times to and from. In fact, we just flew them at the beginning of December and again at the middle of January. Everything seemed just fine! I was looking at ATA for our Princeville flights in August but luckily we used points on American. Oh- I hope that American doesn't go out of business now. I also now have to decide what airline to take to Maui in December. Thanks David for forwarding.

DavidnRobin · Apr 3, 2008

Based on the fragile nature of the small airlines - I am going to spend a few $100 more (and glad I have for our upcoimg STJ and Maui trips) and take a major airline. At least there appears to be some safety net for the big airlines in regards to going bankrupt with bailout and support.

Can you imagine that once ATA and Aoha have got your $ - and then collapse in bankruptcy - the only recourse to get your money back (if it is too late to challenge the CC charge) is to attempt to get your money back via bankruptcy court??? Good luck with that...

Years ago (1991 before the tech boom) I was bareboating in the BVI for 2 weeks with very little news from the outside world. When we got back to the PanAm counter at STT - it was closed - leaving us standing there sunburnt, dirty, bug bites and with al of our luggage and dive equipment... PanAm had gone out of business while we were sailing. Luckily another airline allowed us to use our tickets (AA or TWA?) and we managed to get back to SFO. In today's enviroment - that cooperation (and safety net) is going away.

Negma · Apr 3, 2008

We had tickets with ATA for this June for 525 ea. Already talked to the credit card company. The CC said they just went through this with Aloha, now ATA, it took 45 minutes to get processed, we'll.

I just rebooked with Delta, the first two tickets were 565 (not as good flight times) and the third is 724.

Ken555 · Apr 3, 2008

This is getting ridiculous. I almost booked on ATA for my May trip to OGG, but decided on UAL for the larger plane and times (having never flown ATA...).

I suspect UAL, AA, or others will slowly increase their flights and routes to HI from the west coast. Someone will buy those routes and gates from Aloha and ATA.

dss · Apr 4, 2008

We are some of the unfortunate folks who "fell" for the dirt cheap ATA fares, plus the nonstop OAK-OGG route is just too tempting. If UA was only $100 more, I would have booked them but they were more like 2x ATA when we booked. We took ATA last year with little problem so we rolled the dice once again. Spent a good chunk of the day rebooking our trip for later this month into WKORV. We are only going to get part of our money back, if that but on the plus side, I was lucky and snagged cheap seats (under $400) SFO->HNL on AA and was able to upgrade using miles on the outbound which features the new improved Business class 763 seating. A huge improvement from our ATA Coach seats, even if it means a few more hours of total travel time and a visit to the Wiki Wiki shuttle to connect to OGG.

I am going to be optimistic here and hope that this HUGE gap in Bay Area->Hawaii service is going to be filled with increased flights from both AA and HA. AA used to have four flights from the Bay Area to the Islands (including two non stops into OGG) and is now down to one total HNL feeder flight. I am also disappointed to lose one of the few LIH options from the Bay Area as now UA has the only non-stop. That would be a great flight for HA to add.

lynne · Apr 4, 2008

HA to add OAK service beginning May 1

On the local news tonight, it was announced that HA is planning non-stop flights from OAK to make up for the loss of ATA and Aloha.

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...837&highlight=

califgal · Apr 4, 2008

I wonder what kind of financial shape Hwaiian Airlines is in?

DeniseM · Apr 4, 2008

lynne said:
On the local news tonight, it was announced that HA is planning non-stop flights from OAK to make up for the loss of ATA and Aloha.

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...837&highlight=

Fixing link - http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=82818&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1125837&highlight=

DavidnRobin · Apr 4, 2008

dss said:
We are some of the unfortunate folks who "fell" for the dirt cheap ATA fares, plus the nonstop OAK-OGG route is just too tempting. If UA was only $100 more, I would have booked them but they were more like 2x ATA when we booked. We took ATA last year with little problem so we rolled the dice once again. Spent a good chunk of the day rebooking our trip for later this month into WKORV. We are only going to get part of our money back, if that but on the plus side, I was lucky and snagged cheap seats (under $400) SFO->HNL on AA and was able to upgrade using miles on the outbound which features the new improved Business class 763 seating. A huge improvement from our ATA Coach seats, even if it means a few more hours of total travel time and a visit to the Wiki Wiki shuttle to connect to OGG.

I am going to be optimistic here and hope that this HUGE gap in Bay Area->Hawaii service is going to be filled with increased flights from both AA and HA. AA used to have four flights from the Bay Area to the Islands (including two non stops into OGG) and is now down to one total HNL feeder flight. I am also disappointed to lose one of the few LIH options from the Bay Area as now UA has the only non-stop. That would be a great flight for HA to add.

What is neferious {sp?} about this is there was a hugh price gap in the flight cost on ATA (OAK-OGG) compared to others - I track these on Yapta - and it is just wrong to intice people with great fares when there must have been prior knowledge that they were going under. Who is investigating this - or even discusssing it?
Nobody....

Westin5Star · Apr 4, 2008

DavidnRobin said:
What is neferious {sp?} about this is there was a hugh price gap in the flight cost on ATA (OAK-OGG) compared to others - I track these on Yapta - and it is just wrong to intice people with great fares when there must have been prior knowledge that they were going under. Who is investigating this - or even discusssing it?
Nobody....

I happen to own a credit card processing company so I can speak to standards in our industry. There is a very fine line in what is considered fraud in processing a transaction. If a company sells even 1 ticket knowing that they will not be able to honor the sale, it is fraud. Depending on how and by who the account was signed, I know that certain bankruptcy protection is not covered for fraud. Most cardholders can also chargeback such transactions for at least six months after the date of their transaction and longer if they can prove fraud is involved. Ultimately, the sponsoring bank of the transaction processor is financially responsible for any and all refunds determined by the card associations / companies.

Cathyb · Apr 4, 2008

WestinStar: Is it true they may 'win the case' for Fraud but where will the money come from to pay for the win?

LisaRex · Apr 4, 2008

Cathyb said:
WestinStar: Is it true they may 'win the case' for Fraud but where will the money come from to pay for the win?

Exactly. You can't get blood from a turnip.

Also, as we all know, in year's past when airlines filed for bankruptcy, that simply gave them time to reorganize their debt while they continued operations.

The reason this hasn't happened this time is because the banks are already in a pickle with the mortgage crisis. Undoubtedly they are financially unable to take on more risk, and airlines are incredibly risky. (Would YOU extend them credit with fuel prices at $3.50?) While I feel really badly for folks who purchased on ATA, I don't feel bad that ATA went out of business. Super discounted airlines hurt the airline industry overall by forcing them to match their prices below what is profitable. Super discounters who willingly lose money in the short term while they drive all their competitors, including 60 year old companies who employ 2000 people, out of business, is bad for all businesses. Just as I don't shop at super discounted stores because they force manufacturers to lower their prices beyond what is profitable, I have also never flown ATA or go!, even though they may be the cheapest way to get there.

Ken555 · Apr 4, 2008

dss said:
[...]it means a few more hours of total travel time and a visit to the Wiki Wiki shuttle to connect to OGG.

I am going to be optimistic here and hope that this HUGE gap in Bay Area->Hawaii service is going to be filled with increased flights from both AA and HA.

I'm hoping that HA report is accurate for you, for future flights. But if not, wouldn't it be faster to simply fly down to LAX and then take a non-stop to OGG? Of course, it could depend on your flight time, but there are so many flights between SFO/OAK to LAX that I'd think that should be an option. FWIW, now and then I get routes from LAX/BUR to SFO/OAK when traveling to HA or the east coast (but don't usually take them since I search for the nonstop wherever possible).

Westin5Star · Apr 4, 2008

Cathyb said:
WestinStar: Is it true they may 'win the case' for Fraud but where will the money come from to pay for the win?

This is generally how it works: If a Merchant (ATA or Aloha) goes under and the card associations / issuing brand (Visa, MC, Amex, Disc, JCB, Diners, etc) rules in the favor of the customer (airline ticket purchaser), then the money would first be paid by the sales representative if they carried liability. Second, it would fall to the ISO or sales organization if they carried liability. Next, it would fall to the back end / settlement processor (most of these companies are very large and could handle a loss such as Aloha or ATA). Finally, the liability falls to the BIN or bank that has sponsored the sales representative / ISO / processor. All such BIN banks should be able to pretty easily handle this type of loss. Addionally, a merchant's assets would be most likely be frozen in the BK and part of those funds should go to help the ultimate liable party in refunding customers. This is a really brief idealistic explanation of how this all works and can vary greatly by merchant and the parties / contracts involved. Ultimately the card holder should have no problem getting a refund so long as the card brand rules in their favor.

Negma · Apr 4, 2008

Westin- Great post and very helpful. Side note, the tickets I bought yesterday for 540 are now 1024.

Flights to HI (ATA and Aloha)

DavidnRobin

Westin5Star

DavidnRobin

Negma

Ken555

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

dss

lynne

TUG Review Crew

califgal

DeniseM

DavidnRobin

Westin5Star

Cathyb

Tug Review Crew: Rookie

LisaRex

TUG Review Crew

Ken555

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

Westin5Star

Negma