Marriott Bashing

Lately it seems there is an awful lot of Marriott bashing on the board. Most of it stems from the alleged changes in the trading system. Dave M. posted some pretty useful info in another thread and everything he said seemed ok to me.

Resales would be grandfathered in with little or no effect on their current trading status. After the alleged implementation date there MIGHT be new some restrictions on resale trading ability. This has led to some wild speculation that Marriott T/S's will plummet in value and all resale owners will be punished. I think it's best to wait and see what alleged changes occur, if and when they occur, before assuming that Marriott will ruin the value of ownership in a Marriott T/S. Bill Marriott did not build one of the world's leading hotel chains on the premise that you gouge the customer. People rarely return to a business where they feel they were cheated or mistreated.

Then there is the subject of Marriott sales reps being lowlife money grubbers who will say anything to make a sale. I've bought 5 Marriott T/S's between 2004 and 2006, all of them from the developer. The resale asking prices for those T/S's on this board and others range from what I paid to about a 20% profit. The salesman told me not to expect this. In fact he all but said they were not a financial investment and they were not the cheapest way to take a vacation. One sales rep, who I haven't bought anything from, actually helped me out quite a bit with the one I own in St Thomas. Thanks to his efforts I can now use my PLAT Plus week anytime in the whole Plat season. I go to the presentation every time it's offered and I haven't had one of these guys lie to me yet. Yes, they maximize the benefits of buying from Marriott and sometimes they misstate things but that is a far cry from outright lying. The last presentation I attended at OP the guy made a comment that Marriott was going to an internal trade system, no news there, but then he said that Marriott owns II anyway. I checked this doesn't seem to be correct but it didn't have any effect on whether or not I bought a T/S. That to me was a misstatement not a lie.

ROFR. Some folks seem to blast Marriott for this policy. I don't plan on selling anything I've bought so it doesn't really affect my current ownership. I'd like to buy another Marriott T/S and it seems that ROFR will make me pay more for a resale in the resorts that have ROFR but I'm still getting it way cheaper than developer price. In the resorts that don't have ROFR, like Frenchman's Cove, it seems that it's in the buyers favor. I'm still jealous of ICYDOG's purchase on another thread. This board is about Marriott owners and if you own one I don't see how ROFR could possibly hurt an owner.

In purchasing my timeshares from Marriott they have delivered everything they said they would. In turn I paid them the agreed upon price they asked. I'm happy with the product I purchased and they consider me a satisfied customer. I think that's pretty much the definition of a successful business transaction. I posted this because I think it's important to state that not everyone is unhappy with Marriott or their business practices. That said everybody have a happy New Year!

Bravo and thank you, I totally agree and couldn't have said it any better.....

Happy New Year to all !!!!

There always seems to be alot of Marriott bashing - whether it's this latest topic on a potential internal trading system or something else completely. It's amazing to me. People whine and b---h and complain about Marriott all the time but Marriott will get my business repeatedly because I personally think they know what customer service, 5-star resorts, and quality are all about. Resorts, timeshares, hotels - I rarely stay in a Marriott property that isn't top notch. Are they all that way? No, some properties have issues but in general I think a person will be hard pressed to find them.

But, there are those people out there that seem to despise Marriott for whatever reason. To each their own, I say. If they dislike Marriott Corporation that much then let them stay elsewhere. Me? I'll keep on giving Marriott my business because I like the quality they provide. They certainly must be doing something right because they're very successful. You can't argue with success.

Overall Marriott is a great timeshare organization and they have a history of maintaining resort prices until they leave them.

They are SO good that they do tend to get nitpicked. It is just so disappointig that an otherwise great company lowers itself to resale bashing, ROFR and, recently, tactics closer to Wastegate sales than traditional Marriott sales approaches.

Overall I'd say they are one of the best.

Go over to the Hilton board, we HGVC owners seem to bash HGVC all the time too!

I guess there is no perfect system that fits all the folks, all the time.

Nice post.

The Marriott-bashing here seems to come from only a few people, some of whom post the same complaints or unsupported doomsday predictions repeatedly. Some of the bashers don't even own a Marriott!

Although I take pride in my multiple Marriott ownerships and enjoy the Marriott product, I don't object to the bashing. To a certain extent it forces us all to stay alert for possible changes that might someday change our view of Marriott.

I think most of those here are relatively happy with what they own and are willing to wait and see what the changes will bring, hoping as I am, that there will be at least as much in the way of positives as negatives to those changes.

Happy New Year to Marriott fans everywhere!

Nice post.

I just hope I can scrape up enough money to buy one more Marriott unit before the changes so that I would (hopefully) be grandfathered in.

FYI - My DW made a DVD of our last trip to Kauai and gave it to my DMIL for Christmas. We took MIL with us on vacation. She was in a rented room next door at the Waiohai with my inlaws. Anyhow, after MIL went home and watched the DVD video, she called my DW. MIL was literally in tears telling DW that it was one of the most cherished moments of her life, being there in Hawaii with her DD's, SIL's and 5 grandchildren.

All in a Marriott TS!

Dave M said:

The Marriott-bashing here seems to come from only a few people, some of whom post the same complaints or unsupported doomsday predictions repeatedly.

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I dont know whether you would consider me one of those who posts "unsupported doomsday predictions repeatedly", but, in fairness, I suppose I have posted speculation, more than once, that changes could be coming down the pike that might be problematic for resale owners. I wouldnt characterize them as "predictions", per se, and I dont intend to be predicting anything in particular. Rather, as someone who has been very, very impressed with Marriott and its product (having purchased 5 weeks, 4 of them platinum) over the last couple of years, and very, very pleased with the good fortune of having discovered the resale market before making any of these purchases, I suppose I have a bit of the "if it seems too good to be true, it must be" syndrome.

If I had to reflect on it, I would say that in speculating as to any adverse changes that might be coming for resale owners, my posts are more than anything else seeking reassurance that my concerns are unfounded, and that perhaps someone has some solid info to that effect that will serve to allay my concerns. But, now that you point it out, I suppose I could see how some of my posts perhaps wouldnt be taken that way. Maybe from now on I will just wring my hands privately and wait and see what happens, rather than stirring the pot, if doing so is seen as repeatedly making doomsday predictions. That has never been my intent, and, at the end of the day, I would say I remain fairly optimistic about what is or isnt coming. It just helps (me, anyway) to air out the concerns sometimes, if only to have them batted down.

Marriott is a great system not much to bash but don't confuse opinions with actually bashing Marriott.

Jim - nice post, and I agree. I have Marriott from developer and resale. The company and its people have been great, and I am very pleased. As with everything, they don't know everything about every element of the product - have you bought a car or house or real estate recently? Or an appliance, or an item off of a menu? Maybe I am a detail nut, yet I know I need to verify and learn myself.

I used to spend over 100 nights per year in Marriott hotel properties. This was my choice, as they were the most consistent of any during that time...and I believe this is still so.

A thought....maybe Marriott is looking at internal exchange to take care of Marriott owners better...and yes, make money at it. And if so, maybe they won't care about resale purchases or developer purchases, rather support all owners. Maybe they are attempting to protect the value of the product, and by keeping it open to all properties, as they now do with trades, it could enhance the value of the brand regardless how it was purchased. Simply put, it would be in Marriott's best interest to have internal trade priority available regardless of developer or resale purchase. And as an owner of both, I say this could be a good thing. It could create support on the resale market from a pricing perspective, and actually support values from the developer, resale, and ROFRs. Just a thought, and I would bet on this plan rather than all of the other paranoid-like postings...

Marriott has provided me with a good product, good service, at a fair price. I didn't buy an investment - they were clear. They continue to give me what I bought, and I am happy...

hipslo, I understand your concern, yet the way Marriott does things, they will probably make your units more valuable by the approach they take, as they will only expand and make more money by having a strong resale market. A strong resale market is critical to their continued success, as more product is in the marketplace.

Good Cheer

Now my first thought as I read this Thread was to start a rival thread for those of us that are less than enthused with Marriott.

But since it is the season of good cheer, I will refrain. Instead, I will wish all of you a Happy New Year.

Let's us hope that Marriott makes a few New Year's resolutions to improve the TS industry and make it a prosperous and happy year for all of us (sorry, I couldn't resist at least a modest comment).

We also are very happy overall with our Marriott purchases and experiences. Not everything is perfect, but we respectfully let Marriott know what what we don't like and make suggestions for improvement. Whining doesn't get you anywhere. Also, most of the time if you say something while you are there they try to make amends.

We just got our BeachPlace Towers letter and the Board is "negotiating" with Marriott regarding some of the decisions it made. We don't agree with all their decisions but we applaud them for keeping our maintenance fees from skyrocketing.

Having exchanged into other resort families, we know Marriott is one of the best. Still, we enjoy reading others' opinions as we learn from them--but bashing is not necessary. Thanks TUG for the forum to discuss pros and cons!

I love Marriott too. They have provided a great vacation experience for my family and at a good value.

That said, I have a bad taste in my mouth from my experience at Streamside. While I love Marriott, the Streamside experience reminded me that Marriott is a big business....and is in business to make money.......that is fine, I am over the Streamside incident, I got out at a reasonable price.....I just am a little less trusting now of Marriott.

Well, I just finished a presentation for Mountainside, mostly to get updated. As usual, it was fine, normally I learn something, in this case they upped the award for attending to $150 in local dining since it is peak ski season in Park City.
I own 3 weeks, we are quite satisfied with them overall-nobody is perfect-but we continue to recommend Marriott to friends.
The sales person knew nothing of the proposed internal trading system, in fact was not all that up to speed on the resale market in general, or perhaps had been instructed not to discuss it?

Jim, Well said and a Happy New Year of great travels with Marriott to you and everyone out there in the TUG world.

Eric

Five of my six Marriotts were purchased direct and even though my one resale week was a very low price, it's a pain to me as I'm a big user of the Marriott Reward system and that one can't participate ... and MR was the reason I bought into Marriott in the first place: to one day have enough points to see the world I missed by having kids early in adult life. It has worked beautifully for me, in spite of the bashing the MR program takes on this board. The trips I've been able to take (and my adult kids) have been worth many times the cost of my timeshares.

Our timeshares are worth more because they are Marriotts. Remove them and watch the prices fall...which is my fear of Beachplace which (as an owner of 2 weeks there) I've often expressed my displeasure in how the MBP HOA makes dumb decisions that pull down the resale value and lessen the pride of ownership...decisions I feel may one day make Marriott dump it! I don't think that would happen with any of my other Marriott TS (Manor Club and Canyon Villas) because they are very well run and classy places. Pride of ownership is very important.

Nothing is perfect ... no company is perfect ... neither are we. But JW runs a damn fine company IMO and one in which I'm a happy shareholder in spite of it's problems this year.

Brian

human nature to jump on the bashing band-wagon

I have learned that it is human nature to jump on board negative comments and yet very difficult for people to say positive and have other agree. My DW worked for JW for 13 years and I used to live in Courtyard hotels for 4 years Mon to Sat all over NA. These are just two or many reasons why we purchased Marriott and direct. I was amazed to see how my post about the presentation I just went to became all negative. I want to really just let people know what was said especially around Ocean Watch and Fairways. We just bought our weeks and are already thinking of a third week. The salesmen was great at giving suggestions of where to buy based on what we wanted to do with this third week. His points about maximizing rewards, trade power and season we all good. I am sure we will purchase another week and probably from him. I have always been of the opinion that if you don't like it then get out! In addition I feel that what I have learned on this Marriott board has allowed us to maximize our purchase. Thank you all.

Nice post Jim.

It's important to keep in mind that this board and any virutal board on the Internet is a resource which is best viewed with thoughful introspection. That there are views here ranging from abject pessimism to flowery optimism is simply a measure of the variety of opinion that can exist on any board. One should be mindful that some topics/issues are aesthetic in nature and hence no universal principle/answer exists which applies to all owners and other topics are factual matters that are the bedrock of what an owner can and can not do.

Likewise all posts ( or posters ) are not equal, though I believe that the intentions of most folks here are earnest & good. The judge of the "worth" or "value" of information here on TUG lies in the context of the words of the poster and the aggregate interpretation/evaluation of those words by members as they judge its validity. For the most part, TUG is a source of sound & reliable information and we all benefit from our participation.

As to this talk of this looming internal trading system and a possible change in how a developer versus resale owner might be treated by Marriott in the process.

Marriott has yet to publically outline what it is up to. Yet it sounds to me as if change is at least being discussed/considered which could differentiate between owners. This concerns me, and I believe that all owners should follow this development closely simply because we have all plunked down a good-sized chunk of change and we should indeed be certain that our ownership is not adversely impacted by any change which Marriott implements.

If Marriott is going to differentiate between types of owners, then I would be very interested in knowing specifically why Marriott wants to implement this change and how it might influence resale values to owners. I think that most of us realize that TS is not a game in which one can expect to sell a developer week at a profit. But for many of us, the Marriott name & product, the security it imparts, and the abilty to have a shot at breaking even with a Marriott week ( or even making a modest profit ) plays a big part in our purchase decision. And lets be honest here, a lot of us purchase early in the life of our resorts and we can indeed at present, walk away with what we paid and perhaps another 10 to 20% ( if we eschew allowing Marriott to sell our week).

Now I'm not trying to predict that doom lies ahead when Marriott implements its own internal trading system. But one of the strengths of the Marriott TS program is it's flexibility and its ability to fit the needs and goals of all sorts of owners who are free to pursue their own individual ownership goals ( by resort, unit size, season, and developer vs. resale options ). I'd like to hope that I'm not the only guy who feels this way. Hence I'll always feel a little antsy whenever I hear about pending change which might influence/upend these options by a unilateral decision made by any company, even a name like Marriott which I still trust.

I'll be watching this closely because my family has invested a sum of money in this product and I want to understand how any change will influence my ownership investment.

Fortunately TUG is a good resource for staying in touch.

Barry

BBB Report Has Changed to Positive

OK, I must admit that all of this positive talk about Marriott is hard for me to take, even if this is the time of year for good feelings and all of that. [Are all of these posts from Marriott salespersons and those who have been given perks from Marriott?].

Reading this Marriott love fest is a bit like listening to the sound of nails scratching on a blackboard. But, I made a resolution to stay positive until the New Year, so I'm trying to do it.

But let it not be said that I've never said anything positive about Marriott (they do have some wonderful hotels and great employees, excluding a few of the salespersons). Here is something for you Marriott lovers to celebrate:

I checked out the BBB site this morning to verify Marriott's record (it was negative in the Summer). To my surprise, Marriott Vacation International now has a "satisfactory" rating. Hopefully, this new rating is an indication that Marriott is trying to do a better job with its timeshare customer relations.

Humbug!

I sold my Marriotts. When I bought they had great programs to sell and rent the Weeks I purchased. Unilaterally they changed both programs to the detriment of their owners. If posting "Watch out. They may change the rules to your detriment" is Marriott bashing, I am guilty.

GEORGE

Phillie said:

I was amazed to see how my post about the presentation I just went to became all negative. I want to really just let people know what was said especially around Ocean Watch and Fairways.

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You wrote this in the other thread:

For those who have purchased resales they will only be able to make reservations 6 months in advance even if they own multiple weeks.

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And two other people in that thread reported similar comments from Marriott salespeople. I guess I'm surprised that you're surprised, especially after knowing from reading this board that the salespeople do not know what the changes (if any) are going to be when Marriott starts the internal trading program.

Is this turning into people that purchased from the developer vs people that purchased resale, rather than what we're calling Marriott bashing?

There's going to be a fair amount of speculation about the new program. That's healthy and normal. And the argument about ROFR is just never going to end. But that's ok too. Over time, you just learn to use your internal filter for that sort of thing.

I guess I agree with Dave. There's a few people that are going to always post negative comments about Marriott or parts of the program that they don't like.

-David

bogey21 said:

I sold my Marriotts. When I bought they had great programs to sell and rent the Weeks I purchased. Unilaterally they changed both programs to the detriment of their owners. If posting "Watch out. They may change the rules to your detriment" is Marriott bashing, I am guilty.

GEORGE

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I agree with this post- For the sake of BALANCE---We need a little of both sides- Rah-Rah- Cheerleeding is fine but we also need the "watch out" posts in order to have a realistic view of the situation-
I used to own a Marriott as my only timeshare, but sold it becasuse I was frustrated with the reservation system and lack of flexibility- Now that I am fortunate to be able to afford more timeshares, I am in process of purchasing again at NCV-
Now lfor the sake of BALANCE, let me take the time bash the other timeshares:
I own HGVC and I am thoruoghly disgusted by the number of affiliate properties they own- when I post this at HGVC - people take it personal as they may own some affiliates
Hyatt? -- beautiful-but not enough properties
Starwood?- voluntary vs mandatory- oh no

Of course- I cant ever forget- timeshare vacationing has really lifted the quality of my family life

Marriott is by far the leading "Name Brand" timeshare chain. This fact has been verified by the TUG poll.

All industry leaders will be the victims of criticism in a large forum such as TUG. Marriott is an honest modern corporation that provides excellent products and services. However they do charge a high premium for their product. The nature of sales is always rife with deceptive practices due to salary commission. All sales transactions that involve a commission are subject to deceit. The majority of critics here involve the sales force. You should not feel that the critics are bashing Marriott, but they are bashing the Sales force.

JanT said:

There always seems to be alot of Marriott bashing - whether it's this latest topic on a potential internal trading system or something else completely. It's amazing to me. People whine and b---h and complain about Marriott all the time but Marriott will get my business repeatedly because I personally think they know what customer service, 5-star resorts, and quality are all about. Resorts, timeshares, hotels - I rarely stay in a Marriott property that isn't top notch. Are they all that way? No, some properties have issues but in general I think a person will be hard pressed to find them.

But, there are those people out there that seem to despise Marriott for whatever reason. To each their own, I say. If they dislike Marriott Corporation that much then let them stay elsewhere. Me? I'll keep on giving Marriott my business because I like the quality they provide. They certainly must be doing something right because they're very successful. You can't argue with success.

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I think Marriott and DVC esp, but most any of the larger systems, have had their fair share of none fact based bashing. But I would agree that balance and reasonable discussion is good overall even when we all disagree.

It's not hard to notice that Marriott owners are positive and tend to write off bashing by non-owners. Perhaps it is not the point of view, but rather a case of Marriott owners getting better treatment than those who exchange in. I have no complaints about the sales staff, if it wasn't for them I may have never had my dishwasher and VCR repaired and the crib removed from the unit I stayed in.