Bluegreen Resorts attempts to control resales.

Bill4728 · Apr 24, 2007

Street Talk said:
FLORIDA: April 20
Filed under: -EASTERN USA — street @ 12:08 am
BOCA RATON: Bluegreen Resorts has decided to get firm in its attempts to control resales. It is doing so by enforcing restrictions on resale inventory that is not sold by an authorized reseller. Essentially, if you are in the Preferred program, VIP program, Enhanced/Traveler Plus membership or basic membership with perks such as Bonus time and day use at Club Component Sites, you will not be able to transfer these programs to a buyer on the resale market.

You can still exchange with RCI or into other Bluegreen properties, but the only way to use those other programs is via developer sales or the aforementioned authorized resellers.

Other resorts operate similar restrictions, including Marriott, with what seems to be limited success. Anyone have hard data on how successful such programs are? Anyone with an opinion about it?

OK, am I reading this right? They are saying that new resale owners will not get bonus time or day use? And that resales will not count toward VIP. But, they will get internal exchanges into the other Bluegreen resorts.

BocaBum99 · Apr 24, 2007

Bill4728 said:
OK, am I reading this right? They are saying that new resale owners will not get bonus time or day use? And that resales will not count toward VIP. But, they will get internal exchanges into the other Bluegreen resorts.

That is correct. It's the same thing that most developers do to create a feature differential between developer purchases and resale purchases.

Bill4728 · Apr 24, 2007

How big of deal is this?

BocaBum99 · Apr 24, 2007

Bill4728 said:
How big of deal is this?

It's not that big of a deal since you can still get these developer benefits buying resale as long as it is from an authorized reseller. It certainly impacted the resale market, but not nearly as much as say Fairfield. There are lots of loopholes. Rather than post them here, send me a PM if you are interested.

timeos2 · Apr 24, 2007

It's all fluff

Bill4728 said:
How big of deal is this?

Not much. Just like Wyndham it is just another reason to give the sales weasels a hard time. Since the benefits don't transfer, unless you use the "approved" resellers, just point out that the extra money they expect you pay - thousands in Wyndham's case - isn't worth it to you and since you can't transfer it easily it's lost money. Just another great reason to buy resale so you don't throw away money on nearly worthless perks. The rules don't change. Don't buy retail timeshare. 99 out of 100 times you'll be right if you follow that rule.

geekette · Apr 24, 2007

Really depends on how much you value those things. If you'd never use bonus time, can't imagine you'd care. If you find out later that you DO care, make another purchase. Pretty simple.

e.bram · Apr 24, 2007

If all owners pay the same MF, how can they deny you something you paid for. I'm assuming the perks are paid by thr MF and not a separate fund. How can you nave two classes of owners both paying the same. Seems illegal.

CharlesS · Apr 25, 2007

It's in the Paperwork

When you buy a timeshare you agree to be bound by the official documents that set up the timeshare. Who gets the perks are delineated there. That makes it legal.

Most of us do not read those documents too well and when we buy resale, the seller often does not send them along (Though two of my resale purchases did). By the way, reading the documents is a good cure for insomnia.

Charles

BocaBum99 · Apr 25, 2007

e.bram said:
If all owners pay the same MF, how can they deny you something you paid for. I'm assuming the perks are paid by thr MF and not a separate fund. How can you nave two classes of owners both paying the same. Seems illegal.

Bonus Time and Preferred Owner Benefits are NOT paid out of MF. They are paid directly by the developer.

geekette · Apr 25, 2007

e.bram said:
If all owners pay the same MF, how can they deny you something you paid for. I'm assuming the perks are paid by thr MF and not a separate fund. How can you nave two classes of owners both paying the same. Seems illegal.

We don't all pay the same MF, as that depends on what trust your deed is in. Nothing illegal about it.

Bonus Time and Traveller's Plus, should I use them, come out of my pocket. The offering of them doesn't depend on my using them, or my upfront dollars in support of them.

Just like any other company, they can set up the rules to prefer some owners over others. they happen to prefer the ones that pay them money to join the club. I don't think that's so ridiculous and certainly not illegal.

Mel · Apr 25, 2007

The only "perk" I can see that could be a problem, in terms of denying access to resale owners, would be day-use. And that would depend on the Condo Docs.

If a perk is somehow listed in your deed or the Condo Docs, the only way to take it away is to amend the Docs. But enen that is easy for a developer who maintains control over the HOA board. With deeded property, the Condo Docs should be referenced in your deed. With more places putting those records online, you may be able to print out your own copy right from your computer.

e.bram · Apr 25, 2007

All of my TSs are deeded and controlled by the HOA. In some cases it's still the developer but in others the managment has been given over to companies other than the developer. In that case how would preferred perks be handled.

BocaBum99 · Apr 25, 2007

e.bram said:
All of my TSs are deeded and controlled by the HOA. In some cases it's still the developer but in others the managment has been given over to companies other than the developer. In that case how would preferred perks be handled.

The same way Marriott does it. They offer owners who buy from them the ability to convert their weeks into Marriott Reward Points. Resale owners don't get that benefit. They create a separate program with additional benefits and offer it as an additional membership when you purchase from the developer.

These benefits do not inhibit an owner from using their priority week (essentially a fixed week) or reservation privileges at other resorts. They are optional features that an owner can elect to purchase or not purchase.

Your resort developer can create a theme park club where if you buy, you get free Disney tickets every year. As long as you bought from them, you get the tickets. But, as soon as you sell the unit, it no longer is avaiable. It's actually quite simple.

BocaBum99 · Apr 25, 2007

Mel said:
The only "perk" I can see that could be a problem, in terms of denying access to resale owners, would be day-use. And that would depend on the Condo Docs.

If a perk is somehow listed in your deed or the Condo Docs, the only way to take it away is to amend the Docs. But enen that is easy for a developer who maintains control over the HOA board. With deeded property, the Condo Docs should be referenced in your deed. With more places putting those records online, you may be able to print out your own copy right from your computer.

That's true. Most resorts that I am familiar with do not allow day use anyway.

CharlesS · Apr 26, 2007

Bluegreen Day Use

BocaBum99 said:
That's true. Most resorts that I am familiar with do not allow day use anyway.

Jim,

This thread started with reference to Bluegreen so my comments refer only to Bluegreen.

I went through my December, 2002 Bluegreen Public Offering Statement Text, Section 2 (Recreational Property Use). I found a statement in subparagraph (1) of each of the following paragraphs:

G. Petit Crest Villas
H. Falls Village
I. Orlando Sunshine Resort II (however, the statement omits the II).
J. Big Cedar

The statement is, "Each purchaser has the right to use these amenities at (name of resort) only during his particular use week." (Note the word ONLY.)

I could not find a similar statement for any other resort.

There is also a general statement that allows the manager to set rules and limit use to any of the facilities so Day Use is not guaranteed at the other resorts in the Bluegreen Vacation Club.

Since I do not have the documents for all of the other Bluegreen resorts, I am just going to assume I have Day Use until they throw me out. (By the way, I have never used Day Use in 9 years of happy ownership in Bluegreen.)

Charles

Bill4728 · Apr 26, 2007

I started this thread because I see the main benefit to owning bluegreen is the ability to do internal exchanging to other bluegreen resorts. And if resale owners still have that ability, then I still consider a bluegreen purchase.

What I was wondering if Bluegreen was trying to do what sunterra or Starwood are doing, making a resale owner, a single resort owner and someone not able to do internal trades.

geekette · Apr 26, 2007

No, Bill, that's not what's happening. The points program has not changed. How to get the extras has changed.

elaine · Apr 26, 2007

many TS have a "charter member" clause

Original purchaser (aka big bucks to sales team) gets the "Charter/Golden/Super-Duper Membership" entitling him to lots of meaningless stuff, and sometimes something worthwhile. Several TS limit golf packages (a good deal that can be worth hundreds of dollars per week) to original or 1X transferee, other limit day use to 1st time buyer, etc.
IF you are buying a place where day use is VERY important, then it is a consideration---otherwise, resale is still WAY better, even if you don't have VIP status---put it into dollars and cents and see if VIP is worth the $$.

geekette · Apr 26, 2007

Considering that the thread concerns Bluegreen specifically, the value of Bonus Time (the legendary VIP card) is easy to put into $ compared to bluegreenrentals.com where BG does their public rentals. $69/night for a 2 BR is a good value. Whether a person would use it/use it enuf to justify added expense, these are the questions for Bluegreen specifically.

Silver and Gold ownerships, many of these perks are difficult to quantify so the $ analogy is not going to bring easy answers.

skinsfan · Apr 26, 2007

Well it's a big deal if you don't want to buy from an "authorized dealer". I mean people who are selling on like ebay, redweek etc. are going to lose their shirts even more! I mean that should drive down the resale value even more right?

BocaBum99 said:
It's not that big of a deal since you can still get these developer benefits buying resale as long as it is from an authorized reseller. It certainly impacted the resale market, but not nearly as much as say Fairfield. There are lots of loopholes. Rather than post them here, send me a PM if you are interested.

CharlesS · Apr 27, 2007

skinsfan said:
Well it's a big deal if you don't want to buy from an "authorized dealer". I mean people who are selling on like ebay, redweek etc. are going to lose their shirts even more! I mean that should drive down the resale value even more right?

The single, biggest reason to buy Bluegreen is the ability to go to their 44 or so resorts without paying an exchange fee and to go either full week or partial week. Resale gets you that and it can't be taken away.

If one wants Day Use or Bonus Time, buy a small point package from an "authorized dealer" and buy the rest on eBay.

If one also wants "Preferred Membership", then buy on resale and then when about 4000 points away from desired Preferred Level, trade in your resales on an upgrade.

Charles

geekette · Apr 27, 2007

Exactly what Charles said!

The 'barrier to entry' is not that steep and even with a cheap resale, you get the core benefit that is the vacation club points to use at all the resorts. It's like having 40+ 'home resorts'.

BocaBum99 · Apr 27, 2007

skinsfan said:
Well it's a big deal if you don't want to buy from an "authorized dealer". I mean people who are selling on like ebay, redweek etc. are going to lose their shirts even more! I mean that should drive down the resale value even more right?

There's no question that this has impacted the resale market. Resale prices from non-authorized resellers have gone down by about $.05-.10/point. Prices from authorized resellers have gone up by $.05-.10.

So, the market has decided that the VIP Bonus time and preferred owner benefits have real value. There really are quantifiable benefits to Bluegreen's program.

Now that there are a couple of months that this rule has been in place, it appears that these are the new market levels. There are 2 or 3 things that Bluegreen can do to make it even worse. I won't post them here so that they don't get any ideas.

BocaBum99 · Apr 27, 2007

CharlesS said:
The single, biggest reason to buy Bluegreen is the ability to go to their 44 or so resorts without paying an exchange fee and to go either full week or partial week. Resale gets you that and it can't be taken away.

If one wants Day Use or Bonus Time, buy a small point package from an "authorized dealer" and buy the rest on eBay.

If one also wants "Preferred Membership", then buy on resale and then when about 4000 points away from desired Preferred Level, trade in your resales on an upgrade.

Charles

This is exactly right. That total cost would be about $1500-2500. And, you should just view it as the one time cost of getting those benefits. So, don't buy them if you dont intend to get $1500-2500 of benefit out of that program.

Bluegreen Resorts attempts to control resales.

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