Another RCI points complaint

Dottie · Mar 19, 2007

Seems like RCI exchanges are getting tougher and tougher. I seldom find much of anything in a standard points search in an area I would like to visit. A $99 exchange fee is a nice idea when it does succeed. Like many others, I usually use points to raid weeks but that is getting much harder to do. That should make many week owners happier. The problem seems to be that RCI is successful at getting more and more resorts to join points. However, most owners of those resorts balk at paying the silly $3000 fee charged by resorts to convert, so don't convert their week. Result is that there are few choices in points and many resorts that no longer qualify for us under weeks. It is a frustrating situation. I also own a week at a points resort that I have no intentions of ever converting to points for a $3000 fee. I doubt that I would even pay anything to convert it. It is of more value to me on the weeks side. RCI would give me very few points for it compared to what they give other resorts. The system does need to improve.:annoyed:

BillR · Mar 19, 2007

Do you know that the RCI conversion costs from weeks to points OR from a nonmember to points member is only $199.00? Anything over the $199.00 is PROFIT for the resort.

There are a LOT of places that sell points conversion for less than $3000. Perhaps you can find a better deal in the TUG classified ads.

Dottie · Mar 19, 2007

Yes, I am aware that the problem is not the RCI cost but what the resorts choose to charge their members. However my resort is managed by an RCI owned management company. My complaint is about the situation and the fact is that many many resorts are charging the high fee to their owners thus making the owners less likely to convert to points. It does limit RCI points deposits. I own another points resort in which the points fee was included in the purchase. That resort is awarded a generous amount of points so I do deposit it to points.

In theory the weeks which are owned by points members do appear on the weeks side of points during the 10 month allowable period. Due to the RCI program, many of these weeks do not show up online. It would be nice to see that problem fixed.

AwayWeGo · Mar 19, 2007

Qualify, Shmollafye.

Dottie said:
Result is that there are few choices in points and many resorts that no longer qualify for us under weeks.

I could be wrong (& if I am it's not the 1st time by a long shot), but I believe that unconverted timeshare weeks at timeshare resorts that change over to RCI Points remain part of the RCI Weeks system -- both for the individual owners, who can deposit those weeks into the conventional RCI Weeks system to get week-for-week timeshare exchanges, & for the larger population of RCI Weeks members, who can search for any of those weeks that are deposited into RCI Weeks & get reservations to use those weeks via conventional week-for-week timeshare exchanges.

What the individual owners can no longer do with their straight weeks (i.e., unconverted weeks) at RCI Points resorts is get points for depositing those weeks into the RCI Points system via Points For Deposit. Points For Deposit only works for depositing timeshare weeks at RCI Weeks timeshare resorts. So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.

short · Mar 19, 2007

Crossover grid vs point value.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought a you could get any trade from the weeks side but if the resort had converted 1 unit to the points side you had to pay the points value for the size and season instead of the cross over grid value.

I think these week do not appear online but may be available by calling. Can anyone confirm my thinking on this.

Short

BillR · Mar 20, 2007

Sorry, short, I do not understand your question.

BillR · Mar 20, 2007

Dottie said:
Yes, I am aware that the problem is not the RCI cost but what the resorts choose to charge their members. However my resort is managed by an RCI owned management company. My complaint is about the situation and the fact is that many many resorts are charging the high fee to their owners thus making the owners less likely to convert to points. It does limit RCI points deposits. I own another points resort in which the points fee was included in the purchase. That resort is awarded a generous amount of points so I do deposit it to points.

In theory the weeks which are owned by points members do appear on the weeks side of points during the 10 month allowable period. Due to the RCI program, many of these weeks do not show up online. It would be nice to see that problem fixed.

The Points For Deposit weeks do show up in the "weeks" side of points if they are NOT GOBBLED UP IMMEDIATELY by fellow members who REQUESTED SEARCHES. Your comment about the RCI Management company (and ALL timeshare management companies) is valid - they all think they have licenses to steal (and, in my opinion, do).

wilmark · Mar 20, 2007

RCI Inventory getting harder

I agree with you guys that RCI's Points inventory is getting harder and harder with less to do with your points - i own the highest points resort (Crane Barbados) and i end up buying disney tickets as its the only thing that i could use to recover my mtce fees. Its gotten particularly bad in the past year - Ive started a thread here about the lack of inventory esp in the Last Call, Instant exchange and even the Points and Weeks options as a points member here:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43459

i am hoping that the RCI rep sheds some light

Mel · Mar 20, 2007

short said:
Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought a you could get any trade from the weeks side but if the resort had converted 1 unit to the points side you had to pay the points value for the size and season instead of the cross over grid value.

I think these week do not appear online but may be available by calling. Can anyone confirm my thinking on this.

I think this is what you're suggesting:

1 - Points members can access inventory at Points resorts that is deposited in the Weeks side, but have to use the resort Points chart to do so, not the general crossover grids. (In other words, usually more "expensive" than a non-converted resort).

2 - This inventory will not show up in a "weeks" search online done by a points member. A search must be initiated by call to a VC.

This prompts further questions:

1 - WHEN is this inventory available to points members? Can they book the "weeks" depsits more than 12 months out as long as they pay the Weeks exchange fee? Or do they have to wait for their reservation window? This question is critical! If points members cannot access this inventory before their reservation widow, they are hamstrung, because the best inventory will be gone by the time they can reserve.

2 - If this inventory is available within their window, but deposited to weeks, do they pay a reservation fee, or an exchange fee?

Either way the functionality of the online system for Points members is failing. RCI needs to rethink their online interface. If points members are allowed access to Points resorts within the weeks inventory, they need to be able to search for it - either at all times, or at least once their reservation window opens up. They also need a mechanism to have an ongoing search within weeks (I don't know if they can do this or not). If they have to call a VC for every transaction, then points is not in fact an upgrade, even if it does allow splitting or combining of points. At least with some of the mini-systems, you could have ghost deposits in your account (though some of them couldn't be searched online either).

Dani · Mar 20, 2007

I agree with the original poster. I too am beyond frustrated with RCI Points. Some of the reasons have been mentioned. Despite what some might think, I feel as if Points owners often get the short end of the stick. IMHO, they are at a definite disadvantage over Weeks owners. If you are not up at the crack of dawn to the day at the 10 month mark for an exchange that you want, you could very easily just be out of luck. Like now for instance, I can forget about finding a decent summer or fall exchange on the Points side. It's very frustrating.

On the off chance that you do find a decent exchange less than 10 months out, the amount of Points they often want for weeks that can be easily obtained with a dog trader on the Weeks side is ridiculous. As for Points owners taking hard to get Weeks inventory from Weeks members, that is pretty much a myth as far as I can see. I had forgot until I just read it in Melinda's post that you have to call RCI to get any of these cross-over trades!!! I've never even tried. Exactly how many RCI Points members even know to do this? Also, why should we have to do this? Why don't they just put them in the inventory? Yes, we can search up to two years out on the Weeks side, but when you see what is available, it's nothing to get too excited about. In fact, my SA Dik week often picks up more weeks than a Points search within Weeks if that gives you any indication. The inventory available on the Weeks side is pretty pathetic outside of 45- days. Searching Weeks on the Points side does not even begin to pick up what my tiger Weeks trader will.

RCI needs to re-work Points. I am personally about to bail out of Points.

elaine · Mar 20, 2007

This is why I will most likely switch back to weeks!

I bought a cheapo EOY "floating summer beach week" that turned out to be "points." I will try RCI points until the next 3 year contracts comes up, and then I am betting that I am going to let it revert back to the floating summer beach week--which I am betting will out-trade the points anyway. (ps-no fixed weeks at this resort, all are floaters or points).

SCUBA · Mar 20, 2007

Availability

Mel said:
I think this is what you're suggesting:

1 - Points members can access inventory at Points resorts that is deposited in the Weeks side, but have to use the resort Points chart to do so, not the general crossover grids. (In other words, usually more "expensive" than a non-converted resort).

2 - This inventory will not show up in a "weeks" search online done by a points member. A search must be initiated by call to a VC.

This prompts further questions:

1 - WHEN is this inventory available to points members? Can they book the "weeks" depsits more than 12 months out as long as they pay the Weeks exchange fee? Or do they have to wait for their reservation window? This question is critical! If points members cannot access this inventory before their reservation widow, they are hamstrung, because the best inventory will be gone by the time they can reserve.

2 - If this inventory is available within their window, but deposited to weeks, do they pay a reservation fee, or an exchange fee?

Either way the functionality of the online system for Points members is failing. RCI needs to rethink their online interface. If points members are allowed access to Points resorts within the weeks inventory, they need to be able to search for it - either at all times, or at least once their reservation window opens up. They also need a mechanism to have an ongoing search within weeks (I don't know if they can do this or not). If they have to call a VC for every transaction, then points is not in fact an upgrade, even if it does allow splitting or combining of points. At least with some of the mini-systems, you could have ghost deposits in your account (though some of them couldn't be searched online either).

So when points resorts deposit more than 12 months out they go to weeks and, they don't show up on a regular weeks search from points side? And the only way tio find them is to call and have a VC search for you? But it will show up for someone who is weeks owner on an online search? Is that correct?

kvp · Mar 20, 2007

I just bought a points resort on eBay to transfer by weeks resort into. Now I'm getting discouraged!

I thought with a Points for Deposit account I would be able to search online both the points resorts and weeks resorts. It sounds like it’s not as easy as it is advertised to be!

Kathy

bogey21 · Mar 20, 2007

Dottie said:
Seems like RCI exchanges are getting tougher and tougher. I seldom find much of anything in a standard points search in an area I would like to visit.

My guess, and it is only that, is that Points Weeks at most resorts will come into RCI in bunches as Members' use years are hit. For example, if I want Swan Mountain in Dillon, CO in February, I better go after it in February or March as they is when the February weeks of Points Members will be sent to RCI by the Resort. My guess is that if you try in July, there will be no inventory. Makes sense to me anyway.

GEORGE

Click to expand...

timeos2 · Mar 20, 2007

Don't over think this

kvp said:
I just bought a points resort on eBay to transfer by weeks resort into. Now I'm getting discouraged!

I thought with a Points for Deposit account I would be able to search online both the points resorts and weeks resorts. It sounds like it’s not as easy as it is advertised to be!

Kathy

This thread is getting things all crossed up. Here is what I have found from the points and weeks sides of RCI.

With Points:

You don't need to "shop" on day one as all deposits are guaranteed by the points agreement. Like most other points based systems you can figure the best will be there from 7-10 months out - the "deals at 4-7 months and the "lucky finds" 0 to 4 months.

Points can "see" all resorts in weeks - points based or not - but as someone else said if a resort has converted to points you pay the points value for the time, not the generic chart rate. This helps move resorts toward points I assume.

The weeks you see with points searches are the same ones a weeks owner would see. I've tried it with my weeks account and my points and seen almost the exact same choices. You can go 24 months out with either system in weeks.

From weeks you will not see the points deposits into the system - from points you will.

So a points membership is a superset of a weeks membership. You get all the features of weeks trades plus the ability to use points resorts and other points features. The values might or might not be better on one side or the other for any specific exchange you try to make. But you'll have a much better idea of what the cost is and whats actually available from the points side in my experience.

If what you see in weeks from points looks poor it's not the points that causing it. The selection of trades in weeks has been deteriorating for years and today I would not be in RCI at all if all they offered was week for week exchange. It's that bad. II was even worse. Both improved when they went to alternate systems. RCi went to points and II changed to a "priority" system with affiliated, many points based, resort groups.

Dani · Mar 20, 2007

timeos2 said:
This thread is getting things all crossed up. Here is what I have found from the points and weeks sides of RCI.

With Points:

You don't need to "shop" on day one as all deposits are guaranteed by the points agreement. Like most other points based systems you can figure the best will be there from 7-10 months out - the "deals at 4-7 months and the "lucky finds" 0 to 4 months.

Points can "see" all resorts in weeks - points based or not - but as someone else said if a resort has converted to points you pay the points value for the time, not the generic chart rate. This helps move resorts toward points I assume.

Huh? Maybe I'm missing something but there is no way that you can see all of the weeks that are available by conducting a Points search in Weeks as you will if you search in Weeks. I just did a quick search of the Carribean, excl Dom Rel starting May 9, 2007 for a 10 week time period. With a strong Weeks trader, I see 25 resorts, whereas when I conduct a Weeks search on the Points side, I see 13 resorts. I also did a search of Hawaii in general starting March 9, 2008 for a 10 week time period. I see 9 resorts in Weeks and 2 searching Weeks in Points. I can do this all day long and almost without exception will always pull many more resorts within Weeks.

As for "all deposits are guaranteed by the points agreement," what exactly does that mean? You are substantially hampered in many cases if you do not get a hard to obtain week at the 10-month mark.

timeos2 · Mar 20, 2007

Another huh?

Dani said:
As for "all deposits are guaranteed by the points agreement," what exactly does that mean? You are substantially hampered in many cases if you do not get a hard to obtain week at the 10-month mark.

In the weeks system deposits can come in from 24 months to a few days before check in date. There is zero guarantee that any given resort will have any deposits or when they will hit the system. In points you are committing your use time to be deposited. Even if you plan to use it you have to use the 2 month advance reservation time to do so. The resort will be deposited into RCI for at least the three years the points agreement runs. That is a major difference in availability.

As for searching I haven't checked in the past month but unless something has changed dramatically since February I always see more choices in points than weeks. I don't always check both sides as I nearly always find what I'm looking for in points first try. But when I do my numbers are about the reverse of what you list.

Dani · Mar 20, 2007

timeos2 said:
In the weeks system deposits can come in from 24 months to a few days before check in date. There is zero guarantee that any given resort will have any deposits or when they will hit the system. In points you are committing your use time to be deposited. Even if you plan to use it you have to use the 2 month advance reservation time to do so. The resort will be deposited into RCI for at least the three years the points agreement runs. That is a major difference in availability.

As for searching I haven't checked in the past month but unless something has changed dramatically since February I always see more choices in points than weeks. I don't always check both sides as I nearly always find what I'm looking for in points first try. But when I do my numbers are about the reverse of what you list.

Got it. All I can say is that I there has never been a time since I have owned points, and it's only been a little more than a year or so, where I have been able to see the same availability when searching Weeks in Points. Maybe it's because we search different areas. In any case, I wish that I could find what I was looking for on the Points side. That was my hope when I purchased my week. I will say that the short stay trips are a plus. Especially for quick,local getaways.

djyamyam · Mar 20, 2007

Dani said:
Huh? Maybe I'm missing something but there is no way that you can see all of the weeks that are available by conducting a Points search in Weeks as you will if you search in Weeks. I just did a quick search of the Carribean, excl Dom Rel starting May 9, 2007 for a 10 week time period. With a strong Weeks trader, I see 25 resorts, whereas when I conduct a Weeks search on the Points side, I see 13 resorts. I also did a search of Hawaii in general starting March 9, 2008 for a 10 week time period. I see 9 resorts in Weeks and 2 searching Weeks in Points. I can do this all day long and almost without exception will always pull many more resorts within Weeks.

Dani, both you and John are correct. The mechanics of how and when you can search are correct. However, what you are seeing is a function of something else. You can't make the kind of comparison you've noted as you're not quite matching apples vs. apples. I'm assuming that in Weeks, you're using a tiger trader, probably with a lower VEP rating so you can see more. On the Points side, RCI assigns you a phantom weeks account (not to be confused with free weeks account that you get from being a Points member) that is used to search. This phantom account has a mid-level VEP rating and probably a mid-level demand trading power (kinda like a FF generic deposit). As such, you're not going to pull the same number of resorts as your Weeks tiger trader.

It's more complicated than I originally realized. I found this out by accident when I booked a week at the Grand Mayan and the confirmation came with an account that was different than my know Points account # or Weeks account #. I don't know if you've ever done an ongoing search with Points, but it doesn't show up anywhere on your Points account that you can see online. You can only do it by calling a VG and they put the search on this phantom account.

Dani · Mar 20, 2007

djyamyam said:
Dani, both you and John are correct. The mechanics of how and when you can search are correct. However, what you are seeing is a function of something else. You can't make the kind of comparison you've noted as you're not quite matching apples vs. apples. I'm assuming that in Weeks, you're using a tiger trader, probably with a lower VEP rating so you can see more. On the Points side, RCI assigns you a phantom weeks account (not to be confused with free weeks account that you get from being a Points member) that is used to search. This phantom account has a mid-level VEP rating and probably a mid-level demand trading power (kinda like a FF generic deposit). As such, you're not going to pull the same number of resorts as your Weeks tiger trader.

It's more complicated than I originally realized. I found this out by accident when I booked a week at the Grand Mayan and the confirmation came with an account that was different than my know Points account # or Weeks account #. I don't know if you've ever done an ongoing search with Points, but it doesn't show up anywhere on your Points account that you can see online. You can only do it by calling a VG and they put the search on this phantom account.

Good catch!!! I had forgot about the mid-VEP thing with Points. Still and all, even when Madge first told us about this, I didn't think that this accounted for the lack of resorts that we can pull in Weeks through Points. I still don't. One day we really should do a trade test on this issue. Some of the differences just don't make sense. Also, yes, I used a tiger trader, but it pulls high VEP resorts all of the time. It's also not too high that it doesn't see some lower end resorts. I personally think that RCI is treating those who trade in Points for Weeks units the same as they treat high VEP, low demand weeks within Weeks. It's one of the worst positions to be in as a timeshare owner. You can't see the best resorts because you lack the trade power to do so, and you can't see the lower-end resorts, because your VEP is too high.

taffy19 · Mar 20, 2007

BillR said:
Your comment about the RCI Management company (and ALL timeshare management companies) is valid - they all think they have licenses to steal (and, in my opinion, do).

True, most likely.

All you can do is not use them as you will only :wall:

so try independent exchange companies or belong to a mini system and find out which one works the best for you or rent the unit out or better yet, use it. JMHO.

Developers should sell timeshares for the purpose of use and enjoyment and not making buyers believe that they can go anywhere with what they just bought because that isn't true, except for a small percentage of timeshare owners.

Why are people buying timeshares mostly for exchanges when it is getting so difficult and expensive to do so nowadays? It has to be a true hobby or a challenge to do this.

timeos2 · Mar 20, 2007

Buy to use and you can't lose

iconnections said:
True, most likely. All you can do is not use them as you will only so try independent exchange companies or belong to a mini system and find out which one works the best for you or rent the unit out or better yet, use it. JMHO.

Developers should sell timeshares for the purpose of use and enjoyment and not making buyers believe that they can go anywhere with what they just bought because that isn't true, except for a small percentage of timeshare owners.

Why are people buying timeshares mostly for exchanges when it is getting so difficult and expensive to do so nowadays? It has to be a true hobby or a challenge to do this.

Emmy - Every one of our timeshares, except the last bought just to get into RCI Points, was bought to use. Trading never really even appealed to us. We did a few but didn't really feel it was a great use of what we bought - especially when we ended up in units that weren't 1/2 as nice as we were giving up. Then we bought into Wyndham (FF at the time) Points and the whole picture changed. We could use our purchased weeks but the ease and no additional cost approach of the not-so-mini system showed us what we could get if the system worked right. So over time we got every one of our original weeks into one points program or another. We still use them but when we want to try a new or specific area its a few clicks of the mouse, a little time on line and we're booked. It's almost like a hotel reservation system vs the old sweat it out, plan ahead 2 years and end up taking something we didn't want of the older systems. We'd be perfectly happy if we had to use every one of our weeks every year at the home resort. We like the added flexibility and value of the points systems and have dropped all our weeks trading memberships and don't miss them a bit. Of course we still get access to RCI and II free through the various points systems but they are a different animal used like that with request first rights vs the old deposit and hope model we PAID for. If they disappeared tomorrow it wouldn't matter to us. Why anyone would own timeshare just to go through the torture of week for week trade is a mystery to me.

kvp · Mar 21, 2007

So, if RCI is using this VEP rating with points trades, all the advertising I see for RCI points is not true. For example, here's an excerpt from a RCI points resort for sale on eBay:

RCI Points Program Owner's Advantages;

• Access to All 3800 RCI Resorts
• Access to Other Points Resorts 10 Months Out (unavailable to Weeks owners)
• Ability to use Points days at a time. You chose.
• Trades in the 10-45 Day Window only (6000-9000 pts.)
• Online Exchange & Account Management
• Access RCI Travel & RCI Points Partners

To clarify, I guess the “Access to All 3800 RCI Resorts” is not true if RCI is using the VEP rating.

Gosh, I hope the RCI points resort I purchased the other day on eBay gets me what I want!

Kathy

PS: What is a "tiger trader"?

Dani · Mar 21, 2007

kvp said:
To clarify, I guess the “Access to All 3800 RCI Resorts” is not true if RCI is using the VEP rating.

Gosh, I hope the RCI points resort I purchased the other day on eBay gets me what I want!

Kathy

PS: What is a "tiger trader"?

KVP- none of us has access to every resort in RCI Weeks. This is true whether you are a Weeks owner or a Points Owner. This is a direct result of trade power and VEP. However, many people honestly believe that Points owners do, and that just is not the case.

A tiger trader is a just another way to speak of a resort that trades very well within RCI.

Also, don't panic. Like John, you may have much success in Points. It depends upon your needs.

kvp · Mar 21, 2007

Thanks, Danielle, for answering my questions!

Kathy

Another RCI points complaint

Dottie

BillR

Dottie

AwayWeGo

TUG Review Crew: Elite

short

BillR

BillR

wilmark

Mel

Dani

elaine

SCUBA

kvp

bogey21

timeos2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie

Dani

timeos2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie

Dani

djyamyam

TUG Review Crew

Dani

taffy19

timeos2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie

kvp

Dani

kvp