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Flying used to be fun

barndweller

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I'm old enough to remember the days when an airplane trip was a special occassion. People dressed up and the whole experience from check-in at the airport to arriving at your destination was part of the vacation. People chatted, passed magazines & newspapers around, & gave the cock-pit crew a rousing round of applause when we touched down. Now the whole idea of having to use air transport to get anywhere fills me with dread. It has become a huge ordeal & although I keep telling myself to chill out & remember I'm on vacation, it just seems like it's become such a time consuming chore that unless my alternative is to swim or row a boat I'm driving from now on. I don't care if it takes 12 hours.

Here's my experience for the last trip to Hawaii out of SFO

We drove 3 hours from home & spent the night in a motel. We arose at 5am to take the 5:45 airport shuttle. Arrived at the United Terminal by Park'nFly shuttle after a 30 minute scenic drive through the industrial backstreets of the S. San Francisco motel region making 5 additional pick-up stops. There was no curbside check-in. Schlepped our baggage to the end of the multi block long line for check-in. Spent 2 hours & 15 minutes to reach the counter.When I informed the clerk I wanted to check my luggage through to Maui he sent us to the end of another line at a different counter. There it took approx. 20 minutes to check luggage & get boarding passes. Proceeded to end of block long security check line. We then undressed & dumped the contents of our carry-ons into plastic trays, gulped down the last of the dangerous water, tossed the emply bottles & my trusty Bic into the trash can and shuffled along in stocking feet like convicts in the mess hall scene in an old prison movie. We all made it through to the inner sanctum with a minimum of beeps & buzzes except for Mom who is 79 & obviously was trying to sneak that 3.5 oz tube of Fixodent past security since she failed to place it in a clear plastic bag outside of her purse. Start to finish at security took about 15 minutes. We crammed our stuff back into our carry-ons, re-dressed & proceeded on the stroll to the last gate, somewhere in Palo Alto judging from the distance we traveled, to find no empty seats for our weary butts to park. We stood for 55 minutes waiting for our delayed flight to start boarding. Being the cheap seat purchasers that we are, we continued to wait while watching all the people with children (some who had to be past puberty), folks who were smart enough to request wheelchairs so they'd have a place to sit, and the enviable First Class & Elite types passing through the mystical doorway to our magic carpet. At last those of us seated in the lavatory waiting area were boarded. We inched our way down the 8" wide aisle as people continued to search for overhead bin space for what is laughingly called carry-ons. Squeezed into our seats, buckled up, & with knees firmly planted under our chins we prepared to finally get underway. After waiting another 10 or 12 minutes for some additional shuffling & last minute standby seating arranging to be taken care of, our packed airplane pushed back & proceeded to taxi...and taxi...and taxi. We thought perhaps we were going to actually drive to our destination. We joined the end of the long line-up of aircraft inching toward the launch pad. At last, a full 6 hours after our wake-up call we were soaring into the wild blue yonder. Our 2 hr 25 min layover in HNL was boring but painless & at least we felt like we were on vacation because it smells like plumaria & it's warm & the piped in music is Hawaiian. We had a bit of trouble finding the Island Air terminal located somewhere at the farthest reaches of airport property. You have to actually follow their desk person out a back door and walk along the edge of the tarmac & around parked aircraft & equipment to enter a small waiting area from another back door. The flight was short & quite enjoyable for my retired air-controller hubby. Collecting our luggage in Maui was fast but the car rental pick-up took over an hour because of Mr. I'm Elite Status & Want Special Treatment who was in front of us in the line at the only window open. A short 7 minute drive (we flew into Kapalua) and we had arrived at our home in paradise just shy of 24 hours after leaving our house.

At this point the ordeal to get there is still worth it. But our recent trip to Mexico on American took even longer, had even more hassles & was considerably more in cost. Boy, do I long for the good old days when the journey was part of the fun.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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Boy, do I long for the good old days when the journey was part of the fun.

You could probably still get that if you were willing to pay the same fares now, adjusted for inflation, as people paid back in those good old days.

Back in those good old days, people seldom flew because it cost so much money. It was much cheaper to drive on a trip of 500 or 1000 miles than to fly. Or, if you wanted to splurge, you took the train instead of driving. Flying was special because it occurred so seldom.

Now, the cost of an airplane ticket for a trip of that length between major airports isn't much different from the cost of gasoline to drive a car.

****

Yes current conditions are a cattle call, but that's because air travel is now mass transportation; that's the consequence of having it priced as cheaply as it is relative to those "good old days".
 

barndweller

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How right you are, Steve. Our first ever flight to Hawaii was on World Airlines in 1976. Cost was about $300 each with taxes from Oakland as I recall. Meals were extra $12 so we took a gourmet picnic. There was no movie. We played cards. I think adult beverages were $3.

Of course, at that time our combined income was about $20k per year. We felt rich.
 

johnmfaeth

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Cummulative loss of productivity - how much to the economy

Hi All,

In reading Barn's post, it brought me back to my days (actually 2 decades+ ) of commuting into NYC. For about 12 years of that time I drove for lack of adequate public transportation or a chauffeur Back then I had a lot of time to "ponder" stuff.

If the airlines doubled the counter crew, the line should move twice as quick.

If they doubled the number of TSA types and equipment, that should be twice as quick too.

My question is how much is the economic impact to the country at a whole in lost productivity from waiting on these lines? The cure is less costly than the current economic impact must be, especially to business travellers.

Like highway road work. How much more would it cost to only dig from 10 Pm til 6 AM? Versus 100,000 cars idling in traffic. Just 2% of the cost of wasted gas would make those road contractors squeel like pigs in mud.

Why not give performance bonuses for roadwork being completed early, versus paying billions to rent all those red barrels that sit for years during a project?

Yes, inefficient communism is alive and well, in our government organizations.

John

PS. We need to put in some sort of punishment for the unthinking types who lollygag when they finally get to the screening point in airports. You know them, they slow down to a crawl and have brain lock with such tasks as taking off their shoes at the last minute. Or digging out those little tubes of cremes from their pocket.

They should take them and put them back on the end of the line for all to see and know "better move quick".

PPS. And where's my darn Global Warming, it's cold and damp in NJ today...


.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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How right you are, Steve. Our first ever flight to Hawaii was on World Airlines in 1976. Cost was about $300 each with taxes from Oakland as I recall. Meals were extra $12 so we took a gourmet picnic. There was no movie. We played cards. I think adult beverages were $3.

Of course, at that time our combined income was about $20k per year. We felt rich.

World was one of the airlines that created the impetus towards mass air travel.

****

I did my undergraduate work in St. Louis. Since I grew up in Minneapolis and my parents still lived there, I got to know transportation alternatives between St. Louis and Minneapolis well.

Braniff was the main carrier between Minneapolis and St. Louis (Ozark was the other), and student fare on Braniff was confirmed seat, 75% price. (Most other airlines student fares were 50% standby). For that I paid about $80 each way (meaning regular fare was over $100). Driving, it took two tankfuls at about $10 per tank.

In 1973 I moved to the San Francisco area. At that time, you could fly PSA between SFO and LAX for $19 each way. The distance between SFO and LAX is about the same as the distance between Minneapolis and St. Louis. You could fly from SFO to LAX for the cost of the gas you would put in the car.

PSA was the original cattle call, mass transportation airline. Everything that Southwest does now orginated with PSA. No boarding pass. No reserved seating. No food. Wisecracking flight attendants - they wore mini-skirts in a very 1970's fuchsia-orange-yellow wavy design.

The big difference was that PSA did not fly outside California and hence was not regulated by the FAA. PSA was regulated by the California Public Utilities Commission, which chose to leave PSA fares totally unregulated. Under the regulated FAA model, fares were set at pricing that guaranteed profits for each ticket sold. Where there was competition on a route, the carriers could only compete on service. Consequently, service levels were high, as were ticket prices.

The intrastate California market was the picture of what deregulation would look like - cattle calls, no frills, packed airplanes. And prices at 1/3 (or less) the current FAA regulated pricing. And that's exactly what we now have.

***

Since then there have been various airlines that have tried to market themselves as offering a bit more service for a bit more money. Those airlines all have one thing in common - busted business plans.

The traveling public has been very emphatic - if given the choice between paying $25 to avoid cattle call or saving $25 and putting up with cattle call, saving $25 will win every time.

People will prefer to complain about airline service and save $25 than to have less to complain about and pay $25.
 
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BevL

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Your original post had me laughing hysterically as it is soooo true. More and more often we are flying in a day ahead of when we go to Hawaii or Florida as the whole experience is really tiring.

I really do think as well that part of the problem is just general impatience and in some cases rudeness on the part of much of the public. People push ahead in line, take more than their share of carry on space - the list goes on. Not saying I never cut corners, but more and more it seems to just be the accepted norm to look after number 1 solely.

Thanks for the giggle.
 

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I both sympathized and was amused by your tale of woe.

I think Steve is right on point. Airfares haven't kept up with inflation and, as a result, the airlines are cutting corners everywhere they can and cramming more and more people into planes.

There are some things a traveler can do to alleviate many of the challenges you encountered. Most are free. Some cost money:
  • Check in online before leaving home. That allows you to check baggage in a single step, whether curbside or inside, and move on to security. For some airlines that will also give you an opportunity to get a better seat.
  • Never check baggage. Although that seems like a tall order, I take at least 30 trips each year. Some are extended trips, including cruises (and I take a tux!). Yet, other than when playing Santa and carrying many Christmas packages, I have checked luggage only once in the last 14 years. And all of my companions have done the same.
  • Whenever possible, schedule your initial flight of the day for late morning or early afternoon on a mid-week day. You'll miss most of the vacationers and business travelers and have the airport (relatively) all to yourself.
  • Get prepared for the Security line. Before I get to Security, I have my laptop case unzipped, my one-quart plastic bag easily accessible, my coat off, my shoes untied and every piece of metal out of my pockets and in my acrryon or zipped coat pocket. I make sure I don't have anything that runs afoul of what I am allowed to carry. I can't speed up others in line, but I minimize my time and minimize the likelihood that I will be selected for secondary screening.
  • Although I still walk all the way "to Palo Alto" at SFO (Gates 86-90 or, in the international terminal, Gates 99-100), I'm getting to an age where I have started thinking about taking a ride on the airport-provided cart to and from my gate.
  • Finding a seat while waiting for boarding is normally not a problem. Finding a seat close to the gate, especially in SFO, can often be a problem. Thus, I make sure I know when boarding is to start and then shuffle away to find a seat elsewhere until just before boarding. At worst, with a delayed flight and an unknown boarding time, I'll plop on the floor in a corner and wait.
  • Boarding early is always a high priority for me, because my carryon bag is big enough that I need overhead space for it. Thus, I recommend elite status with an airline, which carries early boarding privileges. That's generally not possible on most airlines without flying at least 25,000 miles in a year. With United and a few others, you can buy that status for about $300 - for a full year. Expensive? Perhaps. But sometimes well worth it, especially considering that....
  • On United, that elite status allows you to sit in the Economy Plus section in the front of the economy section. Each of those Economy Plus seats has an additional five inches of legroom, so that we don't have to sit "with knees firmly planted under our chins". And for that one payment, you can take a companion with you for boarding early and better seating. In my view that $300 is one of the great bargains in air travel today.
  • How about a lousy seat on a plane? I do everything I can to avoid that. I always look at the seat map of available seats (available for most major airlines except Southwest) before I make a reservation. I use seatguru.com and other tools to find the best seats on a plane. I'll often take a different flight if a decent seat isn't available on my first choice flight. I'm not willing to take the day-of-flight-seat-assignment risk.
  • A boring flight? I haven't had one in years. I almost always take a DVD player with me and a supply of Netflix DVDs. I have extra batteries so that I can watch at least two movies of my choice on longer flights. And I take puzzle books, reading material that I'm behind on and other stuff so that I'm busy every second that I'm not eating or sleeping. And as for eating....
  • Unless I'm going to be in first or business class, I'll plan my airplane meal carefully. Whether I make it at home, buy it at my favorite deli or buy it at my remote (from home) location, it's planned as a highlight of my plane ride. Whatever I plan to drink, I'll buy inside of security. Then all I need once onboard is a cup of ice.
  • Yes, I'm one of those "Elite Status" people in front of you at the rental car desk. You too can have that status. Often it's as easy as calling and asking. You might have to promise to rent cars from the company a certain number of times, but once bestowed, that status is rarely taken away.
Get the impression that I love to fly? More than ever! Every flight is an adventure. And, yes, I encounter delayed flights, canceled flights, rude airline employees, unfair (my view) decisions re refunds, missing FF mileage credit and a host of other not-so-great aspects of flying. Still, for me, the positives far outweigh the negatives, so I adjust my expectations to what I will likely experience.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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… Airfares haven't kept up with inflation and, as a result, the airlines are cutting corners everywhere they can and cramming more and more people into planes.

And they get away with it because there aren't enough people who will pay a bit more for better service to make offering better service a viable business model.

Instead, as Dave's post describes, better service is used as an incentive to fly more often with a particular airline.
 

barndweller

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You could fly from SFO to LAX for the cost of the gas you would put in the car.

But the flight was only 45 minutes and the drive was 7-8 hours on hwy101 (before interstate 5 went in.) It was easy for a friend to drop you off at the airport. Now it's a huge maze I wouldn't ask my worst enemy to navigate. You could arrive about 30 minutes before departure, check-in & board within minutes.

The closest airport for me is a 3 hour drive. Add to that the 5 to 6 hour airport experience & the 45 minute flight AND then the hour shuttle ride just to get to the car rental desk in L.A....sheesh I coulda been riding on Pirates of the Carabbean already if I had driven. And even at $3.15 a gallon (as of yesterday) my little Subaru will get me there for less than a plane ticket on SW. Paying big bucks for a first class ticket wouldn't change that. And it won't take 12 hours & I can keep my shoes on.

How did deregulation improve the industry? If all those now defunct airlines started the trend why did they go out of business? Why are so many of the big guys having such financial woes? And while I'm at it, how can AA justify charging $2 for a headset that probably costs about 11¢ to make in Taiwan?
Whose idea was this whole deregulation thing anyway. Reagan? Sure doesn't seem like a great boon to the consumer or the airline industry. It seems to get worse each time I fly and it's not all because of 9/11. Those rediculous lines at check-in & constant delayed planes are not caused by new security standards. It's management. Our flight to Mexico out of Dallas was cancelled because there was no crew to fly it. They'd all run out of time. All those big spenders with the first class tickets were stuck in the airport just like us cheapskates. And where am I going with this anyhow?:eek: Sorry, just got kinda carried away...
 

Dave M

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It's management.
You're right. But that's because of what Steve said....
The traveling public has been very emphatic - if given the choice between paying $25 to avoid cattle call or saving $25 and putting up with cattle call, saving $25 will win every time.

People will prefer to complain about airline service and save $25 than to have less to complain about and pay $25.
That applies to almost every distasteful part of flying.
 

barndweller

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Dave
Thanks for the great rundown of ways to make flying easier. Much of my tale of woe was told with the intent to humor but every word was true. We follow most of your suggestions such as arriving early, pre-prepping for the security check, taking our preferred munchies, good books, etc. We travel as a threesome so the Plus deal would split us up unless we all paid. We used FF miles for that trip & took what seats we could get. We used to always carry-on our luggage before 9/11 but now have to check it most of the time if we want to take certain items like my favorite wine & corkscrew, tweezers, nailclippers, etc. Afterall, can't risk the threat of tweezering the pilot into taking us to Cuba. We still try to enjoy the flight and consider it part of the adventure of travel. I agree with Bev that much of the fun has been taken out of it because of the general decline in courtesy of our society. I am also Elite with our car rental but Mr. I'm Elite etc. of whom I spoke was a whole nother deal. My real name for him would turn the air blue.

My current solution to the air transport problem is to stay for at least a month once I get there! Makes the ordeal tolerable. For now anyway. If they start charging me 5 times as much to go through all that, I'm buying my own plane.:D Hubby has a license. How far could we get before our little twin engine would run out of fuel?
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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How did deregulation improve the industry? If all those now defunct airlines started the trend why did they go out of business? Why are so many of the big guys having such financial woes? And while I'm at it, how can AA justify charging $2 for a headset that probably costs about 11¢ to make in Taiwan?
Whose idea was this whole deregulation thing anyway. Reagan? Sure doesn't seem like a great boon to the consumer or the airline industry. It seems to get worse each time I fly and it's not all because of 9/11. Those rediculous lines at check-in & constant delayed planes are not caused by new security standards. It's management. Our flight to Mexico out of Dallas was cancelled because there was no crew to fly it. They'd all run out of time. All those big spenders with the first class tickets were stuck in the airport just like us cheapskates. And where am I going with this anyhow?:eek: Sorry, just got kinda carried away...

The idea was to give people a choice about airline service instead of having bureaucrats make the choice for them. Given the choice, the traveling public clearly and emphatically opted for cheaper fares over better service.

Why do I emphasize clearly and emphatically? Because since deregulation there have been numerous attempts to operate a domestic US airline that provided better service for higher fare. Every airline that attempted that has been totally and thoroughly beaten down in the market (with the possible exception of some boutique airlines that might charge $10,000 for travel between locations such as New York and London).

Perhaps you would be willing to pay more for better service, but the fact is that there aren't enough people like you to make it a viable business model.

****

See, I think it's all about choice. We simply don't need bureaucrats deciding what choices consumers should be offered. Let the FAA make sure airplane and airplane operations are safe (isn't that a daunting enough task?) and let airlines and their customers decide what economic model works best.

There are lots of very smart people who have money and whose business is identifying markets to exploit and investing in businesses to fill those markets. If there were money to be made operating a full service airline, that business opportunity would have been exploited long ago. But where new money does come into the airline business, it's in the cattle call end of the market. Because that's where there is money to be made.

***

It's not the cattle call business model that is putting airlines out business. If it were, airlines that were conceived and started from scratch as cattle call operations would have succumbed.

But what we see is the exact reverse. The airlines that are profitable and doing well are those that were conceived and started from scratch as cattle call airlines. The airlines that are going bankrupt are the airlines that originally attempted to provide more service at a higher fare. Their bankruptcies are the direct legacy of that failed business model.
 

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Of course I know you are correct, Steve. But for many of us cattle in the cheap seats it is not a matter of choice. I would have to swim to Hawaii if all the seats were First Class prices. I only fly once or twice a year at the most so there's no chance for me to build up any kind of frequent flyer status. It took me 4 years to get enough FF miles for 2 tickets. Upgrade wasn't an option, there were no seats. That stupid pretend meal served with the little toy spork is no big loss and I resented having it built into the ticket price. The only purpose for it was to distract passengers from the tedium of the flight anyway. Business class or that Plus deal Dave mentioned seems to be a reasonable step for me. But all I really gain is a few more inches and the chance to board earlier & then sit in the stuffy plane AND pay more OR to remain in the terminal & board last. . Big deal. I say raise the price a few bucks & hire another agent at the check-in counter. That 2+ hour check-in line is the worst thing about the whole ordeal. Or maybe the Big Corporate Bosses could give up one of their expense account trips to pay for the yearly salary of another peon at the check-in counter. (She said with sarcasm;) )
 
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anne1125

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Julie, you have a great way of expressing what most of us feel. I did laugh out loud (sitting here all by myself and looking silly) when I read your posts.

We just came back from a flight from Phila. to Phoenix. We had a wonderful time, saw beautiful sights and had perfect weather. Never again. Phoenix airport was a bad joke. We waited in line for check in and security checks longer than anywhere we have ever been (including Cancun). We had to travel far on a shuttle to get our rental car. I don't understand why a place like Phoenix would make you travel 7 or 8 miles when Orlando has the rental cars right there.

My husband said that it has become so much of a chore to fly that we will probably choose timeshare trades that we can drive to more often than not. I agree with him.

Thanks for the chuckle and letting me vent.

Anne
 

barndweller

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I am so with you, Anne. We have 5 more trips this year and we are driving to all except Victoria. I'm dreading that one. Up at 4am to drive to Sacramento giving us 1&1/2 hours for check-in for our 8:30 flight to Seattle. On a weekday. Leaving my tweezers behind so I can do carry-on. Wearing clothes with no metal fasteners and going barefoot. Taking no water bottles or containers over 3 oz. Think we've given ourselves enough time? I'll be mooooing all the way to my seat giving all those frequent flyers in first class whithering glares as I pass by.

I still don't get how deregulation has given me more choice. I flew economy (called Coach) in 1976. It was a great experience. Others chose first class at 10 times the price. They had a much better time. Nowdays I still fly economy. It's horrible. Others choose first class for ten times as much. Their experience is only slightly better than mine. So who benefited from deregulation?
 
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Dave M

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We used to always carry-on our luggage before 9/11 but now have to check it most of the time if we want to take certain items like my favorite wine & corkscrew, tweezers, nailclippers....
Good news! :)

All of those items (except for the wine) are now allowed! Maybe some of the other positive changes have passed you by, too. Take a look a the list of allowed "Makeup & Personal Items" at this TSA page.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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I still don't get how deregulation has given me more choice. I flew economy (called Coach) in 1976. It was a great experience. Others chose first class at 10 times the price. They had a much better time. Nowdays I still fly economy. It's horrible. Others choose first class for ten times as much. Their experience is only slightly better than mine. So who benefited from deregulation?

You did. A coach ticket you purchase now for $300 would likely be costing you more than $1000 under the old regulated structure.

Consider that $100 fare from St. Louis to Minneapolis in 1970 that I mentioned previoiusly - that equates to about $200 round trip. I just checked on roundtrips for that city pair for the mid-week travel (as I used to do) - that round trip ticket can now be had for $232.

How much do you think wages have increased from 1970 to 2005? Minimum wage at that time was about $1 per hour. My first job in 1974 as a engineering graduate in California, a high price labor market, was $14,000 per year.


******

Deregulation has led to more people flying. In those good old days, there were lots of people who never got an airplane - that's one reason why it was such a "special experience". In the nice middle class neighborhood in which I grew up, there probably weren't more than one or two families that had even been on an airplane.

It's crowded, with long lines and lots of traffic because more people are flying. And that's because in constant dollar terms air fares have fallen dramatically.

Of course flying used to be special. Only the elite could afford to fly regularly - for everybody else it was a special occasion. Because of deregulation regular flying is for everybody.

***

You ask how deregulation gave you a choice. I think you're failing to consider that the option to take an airplane trip at all is a choice you wouldn't have had previously.

From your original post it seems clear that you are a budget traveler. If you were still in a regulated world, that flight would have been too expensive for you to consider taking. Or maybe you would take that particular trip, but there certainly would be others that you would not be able to take.

That is the choice that deregulation gave you - the choice to travel by air or not. Without deregulation, your realistic choices would have been to drive, take the train, take, the bus, or stay at home. With deregulation, you have the added choice of being able to afford to take an airplane.
 
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BevL

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Interesting take on it, Steve.

I remember flying with my grandfather from Alberta to Vancouver when I was about 10 - so about 35 years ago, give or take. I was the only "cousin" in our family who had ever been on a plane, and the first one in my immediate family, including parents, grandparents, etc., who had flown, except for Grandad, who I went with. I remember I wore a dress - it was like dressing up for church.

Comparing that to the experience of my own children, who started flying before they could speak properly, is interesting. It's always been a means to an end for them.

And as much as I don't enjoy the experience, I'll continue to fly, albeit a day early to recover so I can enjoy my vacation in far off, warm climates.
 

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Phoenix airport

I am so glad to hear that we werent the only ones with a horrible experience at Phoenix airport. The facilities were excellent, but when we got to the security area it was severely understaffed. There were two large planes leaving at the same time, with all passengers funnelled through one small security area. It was painfully slow,everyone was getting uptight about missing their flights, and the screeners seemed to make an effort to re-run as many bags as possible. I understand the need for security efforts, but lets staff appropriately.:wall: :annoyed:
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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Interesting take on it, Steve.

I remember flying with my grandfather from Alberta to Vancouver when I was about 10 - so about 35 years ago, give or take. I was the only "cousin" in our family who had ever been on a plane, and the first one in my immediate family, including parents, grandparents, etc., who had flown, except for Grandad, who I went with. I remember I wore a dress - it was like dressing up for church.

Comparing that to the experience of my own children, who started flying before they could speak properly, is interesting. It's always been a means to an end for them.

And as much as I don't enjoy the experience, I'll continue to fly, albeit a day early to recover so I can enjoy my vacation in far off, warm climates.

When I was a senior in HS in 1969, I was a model UN delegate. The sponsoring Rotary Club flew the other delegate from my HS and me from Minneapolis to Winnipeg for the event.

I'm the youngest in my family. Not only was I the first person in my family to fly in an airplane, I was the first of my cousins, aunts, uncles, and grandparents to fly in an airplane. Among the neighborhood kids I grew up with, I was the first to fly anywhere in an airplane.

Imagine your child being 17 years old (either remember that time or project ahead) - is there any person reading this for whom that might be true for their 17-year old child? Or, if you are less than 40 years old, would that have been true when you were 17 years old?
 

Kelso

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I am not sure if the long line to check in is the worst or sitting in economy without any room to move. But speaking of long lines it reminded me of last June when we arrived at the VanCouver airport three and a half hours before our flight. By time we went through all the lines they had already completed half of the boarding on the plane. Good thing the weather was beautiful that day. I cannot imagine what it would have been like if there were lots of delays and cancellations due to the weather.
 

barndweller

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When I was about 10 (back in the 50's) Mom took us to visit relatives in So.Cal. We took the train from Watsonville. Loved it. There is no longer a station in Watsonville. We used to use Greyhound to get from Santa Cruz to S.F. often. The bus station in Santa Cruz is a faded memory. Then in about 1985, Hubby & I had a conference to attend in Philadelphia. We really wanted to take the train. Plane ticket was about $300. Train ticket was about $600. We had to drive to Oakland to take either one. We flew. In late 90's I tried to get my Grandson here by bus to spend the summer. He lived in Santa Cruz. Nearest bus station, San Jose, 40 min. away. Nearest stop to my place, Manteca, 1&1/2 hrs away. I drove down & picked him up. 6 hours round trip.

Trains & buses don't work for the traveling public anymore. It's almost non-existant. At least out here in the west. We have been brainwashed to believe that airplane travel gets us there quicker. We all know that just ain't so.
Another thing to throw into the mix...in 1976 there was no such category as "business class" & certainly no "frequent flyer." That is what has changed the airline industry & kept the prices low. If all those guys were using the Greyhound, we'd have stations in every bedroom community in California. I don't know if there are planes full of daily communters going from Sacramento to San Jose, but I do know the train is full & they have had to add more cars. Given a real choice, there are plenty of us who would opt for a more scenic, less stressfull way to travel.
 
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