DISboards gave me a "Time-Out" suspension

Well....something interesting just happened to me. After several years of posting on DISboards, I was given an administrative "Time-Out" suspension....ouch!

First of all (especially if the moderators read this)...I LOVE http://disboards.com and the DVC. I am not really a troublemaker.

Second of all...I like to stir the pot. The main "Friction Point" is that I feel DVC owners are renting their units TOO CHEAP and we need to RAISE our RENT. Unfortunately, most do not feel the same way as I do.

I feel the true cost of ownership was about $9 per point (MF + lost income opportunity if you bought DVC in full with no financing). The going rental rate is $10-11 per point and I posted a message advertising $14 per point rental to see if anyone would bite. I was gambling my family's vacation plans for next summer and my wife was not happy as she does not care for the extra money (she wants to go to Disney).

I am NOT a professional timeshare broker or renter. Just check my posts and eBay and you will find that I advertised minimal rentals over the past four years.

You can search my previous messages on DISboards if you want.

Here is what they wrote to me.

Steamboat Bill:

The DISboards' DVC board moderators have conferred on a number of your posts, and have concluded you have pushed the envelope a little too much in recent days.

Specifically there are two issues: 1. You keep attempting to push higher rental rates, and unfortunately are somewhat argumentative in some of your replies. By constantly pushing the issue to get others to agree, it can be interpreted you are attempting others to set higher prices similar to yours. As mentioned, the DIS does not allow any type of discussion that can lead to collusion.

2nd. The DVC Rent/Trade board is the only board where one may advertise points or reservations for rent. By posting cross-references to your point rental on the regular DVC boards, you have violated board policy. It is clearly stated in the 'sticky' posts on the various boards that the Rent/Trade board is the only place points may be offered. While we recognize the point you were trying to make, it is nevertheless not acceptable.

As a result you are being given a 'Time-Out' suspension for the DVC boards. We do not feel you've done anything serious enough to warrant total banishment from the boards. But do recognize that the 'Time-Out' is a first step, and we hope no further action will ever be required in the future.

Be sure to review all posting rules for all the DVC boards before you begin posting again.

This suspension will last for 30 days, and affects only the DVC boards. Your access to all other boards on the DIS has not been affected.

What do the TUG BBS users think of this?

In case the moderators of DISboards read this...please do not give me a total banishment....I am just seeking a Second Opinion.

Let it be

Any continuous barrage of opinion on a single subject - no matter how well informed or on or off point - can become irritating. It's their board to moderate if they feel you stepped over a line take your time out and move on.

Here is the original post for anyone interested. I do not think I said anything offensive, it's just that the last two times I tried to start this thread, it got locked due to the wording.

www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1223969

Additionally, since this thread was started by me two days ago, it generated 63 posts and 1,292 views.

as an outsider with limited need, want or desire to read your posts, from just this one example I'd say you're coming across as someone who is trying to argue a point until people start to agree with you, because you must be right and everyone else must be wrong. And now you are bringing your reasoning over here so that perhaps folks here can justify your point of view as being right.

Now I am sure that statement is going to compell you to defend yourself, and tell me why surely I am wrong in thinking this, but it's simply my opinion.

I'd say it's their board, play by their rules. Take the time out. Move on.

I agree that it is their board, so play by their rules. However, 30 days! Wow! I'd go nuts without my DIS for that long. If it was your first "time out", I'd say that was excessive.

Lisa

To BSQ:

I don't disagree with your opinion and I see no reason to defend myself.

This is, after all, "not the real world" and I can log onto DISboard as a new user with a different screen name, e-mail, and log in immediatly. Thus, the time-out is meaningless.

I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong, I just wanted to see the rental rates increase or there will be no compelling reason to buy DVC (either from Disney or resale) as it will SOON become cheaper to rent than buy. Then my $40,000 worth of DVC points could become devalued.

I just don't see much posting about DVC on TUGbbs and was interested in a different perspective.

If you don't want to read the thread...no problem, just click "Next Thread".

SOS8260456 said:

I agree that it is their board, so play by their rules. However, 30 days! Wow! I'd go nuts without my DIS for that long. If it was your first "time out", I'd say that was excessive.

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Well, as I posted above...there are ways around the 30-day Time-Out, but I will respect the punishment and NOT log in as Steamboat Bill.

I compare my actions similar to getting a ticket for not coming to a 100% complete stop when pulling up to a Stop sign.

It's not like I was blowing thru a red light in a school zone crossing going 60mph while talking on the cell phone drinking a beer and not wearing my seatbelt.

Take your punishment like an adult

Steamboat Bill said:

What do the TUG BBS users think of this?

In case the moderators of DISboards read this...please do not give me a total banishment....I am just seeking a Second Opinion.

Click to expand...

2nd opinion:

You are being childish and the "time out" appears well deserved.

Then you state: "I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong"...

???

JMHO

Kevin hurt my feelings

Kevin said:

2nd opinion:
You are being childish and the "time out" appears well deserved.
Then you state: "I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong"...

Click to expand...

Kevin, I respect your opinion. I just hope you don't get suspended from TUGbbs or any other board for starting a thread like I did.

The fact that you called me "childish" is much more DISRESPECTFUL that anything I ever posted on DISboard.

Did you read the thread? I doubt it.

I did not use profanity or insult anyone directly and was only posting my ideas on how to raise rental rates. This would be good for everyone as it woudl generate more income when people need to rent points and help increase the resale prices.

As far as my statement, "I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong"...I was referring to my ideas on raising rental prices.

However, I do "CARE" that you think I am acting childish. I respectfuly disagree with your opinion, no matter how offensive it is to me.

Don't pay me any attention

Steamboat Bill said:

Kevin, I respect your opinion. I just hope you don't get suspended from TUGbbs or any other board for starting a thread like I did.

The fact that you called me "childish" is much more DISRESPECTFUL that anything I ever posted on DISboard.

Did you read the thread? I doubt it.

I did not use profanity or insult anyone directly and was only posting my ideas on how to raise rental rates. This would be good for everyone as it woudl generate more income when people need to rent points and help increase the resale prices.

As far as my statement, "I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong"...I was referring to my ideas on raising rental prices.

However, I do "CARE" that you think I am acting childish. I respectfuly disagree with your opinion, no matter how offensive it is to me.

Click to expand...

Sorry if I seemed a bit harsh but... you asked. I actually read the first post in your thread. The one thing that stood out was the fact that you started a thread in which you stated you'd already had two similar locked. Maybe stubborn is a better word.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I could not think of any other way to put it. I guess the saying... "if you don't have anything good to say..."
:ignore:

Have a good night.

Steamboat Bill said:

. I do not think I said anything offensive.

Click to expand...

The moderators haven't accused you of saying anything offensive, just off being argumentative and "pushing the envelope" too far.
I think they have explained the reasons for your suspension clearly and thoroughly. All boards have their own set of rules and if anybody repeatedly breaks those rules they must expect action to be taken against them.
From the message sent by the mods, it certainly doesn't look to be a single event that has led them to the action they have taken.
On the specifics of the rental fees members charge I would say that is entirely their own business. If I was in a situation where somebody was trying to tell me what to do with my own property I wouldn't be too impressed. The only thing that would matter to me is if I was happy with the income my unit was generating.

That wouldn't be a smart thing to do. Posting before your time was up, even with a new name, could get you banned permanently. Just because you reregister with a new login and email address doesn't mean they won't know it is you.

It doesn't matter if you are right and they are wrong, or you weren't arguing, etc. The moderators and administrators of that board set the rules, and they decide who is not complying with the rules. I can't imagine that you were suspended for 30 days without some sort of previous warning.

I don't understand people who feel they should bring a grievance from one website onto another one.

Fern

Steamboat Bill said:

I don't disagree with your opinion and I see no reason to defend myself.

This is, after all, "not the real world" and I can log onto DISboard as a new user with a different screen name, e-mail, and log in immediatly. Thus, the time-out is meaningless.

Click to expand...

Fern Modena said:

I don't understand people who feel they should bring a grievance from one website onto another one.

Click to expand...

I actually didn't intend anyone to think I have a grievance with DISboards.

I really enjoy participating with DIS and TUG and Timeshareforums. I just think TUG has a "more objective" membership....perhaps it is the pixie dust the DIS posters keep talking about that clouds their views on reality.

Please realize that I was just posting something unusual that happened to me on another BBS. I think I made it clear with the title of this thread and I chose to put the thread in the TUG lounge forum. Isn't this what the Lounge is for?

So far, there have been 105 views and only 11 posts (of which half were by me). Most people lurk and a few people engage. I will accept getting FLAMED for this thread, but at least make it an intelligent flame job.

Just think of this thread as an online shrink for me and some amusement for the readers.

The message is: "Be careful when expressing your opinion as you might get banned for it"...remember I was NOT falsely crying fire in a movie house.

"I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong, I just wanted to see the rental rates increase or there will be no compelling reason to buy DVC (either from Disney or resale) as it will SOON become cheaper to rent than buy. Then my $40,000 worth of DVC points could become devalued."


Bill- Sounds like my point to you yesterday on another thread about the overvalue of expensive timeshares. I SEE YOU ARE BEGINNING TO AGREE WITH ME.HOPEFULLY THE WHOLE TIMESHARE INDUSTRY DOESN'T IMPLODE.

I agree with the Bill. As a DVC owner that recently rented out a large amount of points I too would like to see the price increase for rentals. The rate of $10/point has been unchanged for many years and it seems that it is time for an increase. Unfortunately if you try to get more money you will not succeed because there are so many others willing to rent at the $10 price.
I did see the original post on the DISBOARDS and thought that it was phrased in a manner that would likely offend and get people all wound up.

So, Bill, why are you still beating this very dead horse? You have managed to get your point across on not one, but two sites. 'Nuf already

Be careful about value assumptions

ira g said:

"I really don't care if people think I am right or wrong, I just wanted to see the rental rates increase or there will be no compelling reason to buy DVC (either from Disney or resale) as it will SOON become cheaper to rent than buy. Then my $40,000 worth of DVC points could become devalued."


Bill- Sounds like my point to you yesterday on another thread about the overvalue of expensive timeshares. I SEE YOU ARE BEGINNING TO AGREE WITH ME.HOPEFULLY THE WHOLE TIMESHARE INDUSTRY DOESN'T IMPLODE.

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I can't resist going slightly off the thread to say in 2043 your long term rental of DVC points will certainly be "devalued" as Disney will take back ownership with zero payment to you. In fact for that last year they will be expecting you to pay the annual fee to be sure the resort is in top shape before they accept it back. IMHO long before that date the devaluation of those points will begin when DVC stops ROFR and the long term renters realize they face years of high fees and little resale value. Don't be fooled by the propped up values of today that you have something that can be resold at will for a high value. No one knows exactly when DVC will pull the plug on ROFR but when they do the freefall of prices will be astounding and those who didn't know it happened very unpleasantly surprised when they decide to get out.

DVC is a great group of resorts but not an investment anymore than any other timeshare is. In fact it is less as you know it will be going back to others for free in the future. If you bought in just to enjoy and feel the costs make it a value to you then you're fine. If you bought it thinking you'll get most of your money back out you better revisit your assumptions or get out while you can in fact still recover most of the upfront costs. Wait too long and you're in the same situation as 85% of all timeshare owners when it's time to sell. Too much in and not enough offered in resale. The other 15% (my guess) can recover most of what they paid as they bought at resale pricing. Because of ROFR resale on DVC doesn't save you enough to be safe. When it ends the deals will be plentiful. The relatively low cost of rental points is the sign that owners can and will get antsy and discount prices just to get out. Rentals today - sales at some unknown future date.

Okay, I'll bite...

Steamboat Bill said:

... I will accept getting FLAMED for this thread, but at least make it an intelligent flame job....

Click to expand...

Bill,



Obviously... you won't "accept" any kind of "flame job" ,. It seems like you want sympathy for being banned for 30 days. You really don't care what TUGgers think of your DISboads ban.


There have been plenty of times I have said or done something wrong and not been able to admit it or accept the consequences, until... someone threw cold water in my face. Only then, did I realize how "silly" I had behaved. The way my post on this thread are going... this could be one of those times!

If you step back and think about it... don't you think logging in with a different screen name is a bit antagonistic and silly? If a person would do that, it leads me to believe he/she has a history of disruptive behavior on tha website.

I honestly don't want to "argue" with you but, why ask what others think if you only want responses that agree with you?
Since I don't... I will leave your playground, as I would only further stir the pot.

You have gotten responses from a few of the legends of TUG... John Chase, Keitht and Fern ( only one name and no intial needed... like Madonna ). My opinion carries little weight compared to those and others. Have a great Saturday.

Bill,

I didn't read any of the disboard posts, but I do disagree with your notion of Disney points being marketable at $14/point. I think they are too expensive at $10/point when the alternative is to get a nice off property resort for less than $100/night.

In fact, I believe that Disney rentals may have topped out. There is a tremendous oversupply of accommodations in Orlando right now of all types. Vacancy rates for hotels are increasing and rental rates are starting to decrease. If anything, I believe the rental rate will start decreasing for DVC points, not increasing because of this market condition in Orlando.

Also, the moderators are right. It is illegal to price fix and the based on what you wrote on this thread, that is what you were attempting to do. That is a very serious anti-trust offense.

What I don't understand is the 30-day suspension. I think 7-days would be more commensurate with the deed. But, I haven't read the posts and seen the types of warnings you received. If anything, you have a point that you may have experienced cruel and unusual punishment.

You like to stir the pot? Maybe thats the problem. Most posters on Disboards and TUG participate by answering questions in order to help others or by asking questions and looking for advice.

If your more concerned with "stirring the pot" then maybe another message board might be better suited for that.

As far as looking to increase the amount DVC rents for, I dont agree. As most owners do, you are over estimating the value of your timeshare. They will rent for what the market will allow. If currently it is about $10 per point, then thinking that you are going to increase that by 40% is being very unrealisic.

What I take away from this thread is that it makes cents D) to rent, rather than own, DVC.

I disagree with anyone, who for whatever reason, believes it is somehow their right to influence rental prices for someone else's timeshares. To me that is self serving for their own benefit. "Then my $40,000 worth of DVC points could become devalued."

If a person knows how to get higher rental prices through their connections or advertising efforts, well that's great. If another person is an occasional renter and needs to get the thing rented so they can at least cover their maintenance fees, well, that's great too.

It is difficult to rent when competing against the people who are in the business and have built up repeat customers and "word of mouth" recommendations. I don't fault them for that, it is just a sign they are good at what they do.

But how do you compete against that unless you establish a price point that just might snag someone's interest? There are valid reasons people establish prices lower than the "going" rate for rentals. Isn't the the whole idea about a "free market" economy? It is good for owner's needing to rent their unit and good for people looking for a good rental deal.

Timeshares are primarily intended to be used for vacationing purposes, and it is nice that we have the flexibility to rent when we can't use them ourselves. But nothing in life is static, if rental of timeshares becomes unprofitable we are free to look for better invests to generate income.

Just my opinion....

Tom

(Edited...decided I did not want to participate in this thread.)

To ira g:
Yes, it appears that I am starting to agree with you about the overvalue of expensive timeshares. Disney has had a great 15 year ride, but they are not exempt from a crash. It is unfortunate that the LOW rental rates (by members) may be an early sign of an impending market correction. We will soon see. I hope that I can get out at the top of the market.

To cds62:
Thanks for your support. Perhaps I could have sugar coated the original post, but I did not.

To Blondie:
This may be a dead horse to you, but not me. Why do you bother to read this thread if you don't care or are not a DVC owner?

To timeos2:
You have posted the SMARTEST thing I have ever read about DVC….thanks. I plan on selling way before they expire in 2043.

To Kevin:
I would accept your flame if you read my entire original thread. You are wrong….I very much respect the TUGbbs users as they are much more objective, practical, and smarter than the DISboard users (IMHO). Disney must be putting something in the water as it really affects the DVC owners as they only see things with pixie dust. Not to mention all the annoying dancing similies, banners, countdowns….I hardly see that on Tugbbs.

To BocaBum99:
The $14 point rental was an experiment to prove that rising prices may not ever be possible on DISboards as DVC owners are over 100,000 strong and are happy if they just get their $4 MF back, not to mention lost investment opportunity, interest rates on loans, etc.

I agree with you that DVC may be at the price peak, and I may sell soon.

I was not really trying to "price fix rent" as it would be impossible to get a monopoly with all 100,000 DVC owners, I just wanted to try to convince owners to raise the rent as the cost to buy-in and MF have gone up over 40% in the past 5 years, but the rental rates have not changed at all. Isn't this the REVERSE of "What is the cheapest I can buy XYZ timeshare?" posts that appear on this bbs everyday?

To gmarine:
I have over 400 posts on DVC and most of them are helpful to newbies. It is just that I like to start threads with controversy to get a debate going. This is what I mean about stirring the pot. In fact, they have a cute animated smilie of a happy face stirring the pot.

To Pit:
You are very wise and are on of the few that "get it"

To Tom52:
What is wrong with being self serving if it benefits every DVC owner? I did not buy DVC to rent points or make money. However, when I have excessive points, shouldn't I try to get the most rent for them rather than letting them expire?

To 2kids4me:
I hope that you do not play poker as you have completely read me wrong. It is not my desire to get people angry, it is to get them to THINK, debate, and discuss. You may not agree or like me…that's fine with me. I have pocket 2's, what do you have?

I have been 100% revoked now....ouch!

OK, I am now 100% banned from DISboards as Steamboat Bill as my posting privileges have been permanently revoked.

My bother Mike (Pegleg Pete) posted a message on a thread I started that had over 7,000 views informing the readers that Steamboat Bill was suspended for 30 days and would not be able to continue the discussion on raising point rental rates.

I know this may be hard to believe, but yesterdays post was really posted by my brother Mike, not me. In fact, all my recent threads have been deleted. However, my most popular non-controversial threads are still going….

To summarize the issues:
1. I simply started a thread on raising rental rates for DVC points. This was not well received.

2. My first two attempts to start the thread were locked because the moderator thought the wording implied "price fixing" so I modified the post to ask member suggestions for rent and what I thought was a fair amount. I was given warnings each time, but they were not too serious. Just something like your post was deleted because of word choices. This was the first time in 4 years (and over 400 posts) I have ever been locked or even warned by a moderator.

3. I did not use profanity, was not racist, was not anti-Semitic, and did not flame anyone. Some posts may have been sarcastic, but not offensive.

4. I then posted a challenge ad on a different forum to rent points at $14 rather than the current $10-11.


Here is e-mail I received from DIS:

Steamboat Bill/ Pegleg Pete:

Due to violaton (sic) of our site guidelines your posting privileges have been permanently revoked.

You were being given an opportunity to maintain the ability to participate on the DIS by accepting the 30 day temporary suspension from the DVC Boards, but chose to violate that by registering a new name and again posting on the DVC Boards.

DIS Boards Administration


Oh well, I guess it is time for me to lay low for awhile and think up a new screen name. After all, this is a virtual world, not reality….and I can create a new persona. Too bad my post counter will get reset.

FYI - I will be in California Sunday-Friday and will probably not use my computer so you can Flame me at will. I will catch up on Friday or Saturday.