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What do I need to know when renting from a Wyndham owner

WinniWoman

WinniWoman

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
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Location
The Weirs, New Hampshire
Resorts Owned
Innseason Pollard Brook
I have rented privately from Worldmark, Innseasons, RCI weeks owners, etc. but not Wyndham. What to I need to be aware of?
 
Wyndham takes forever to send the name change to the front desk - ask the owner to request the central reservations send it immediately, so you can call and confirm your reservation.

In theory, the front desk CAN go into the main frame and look up reservations that they don't have yet, but my experience has been that many times they don't know how to do it, are too busy, or won't do it for some other reason.
 
We Wyndham owners have to use a guest confirmation that costs $100 per reservation. so make sure your confirmation has your name on it, otherwise you may have to pay an extra $100 at check in

If the guy thats renting to you is a VIP he may not want to add your name to the reservation until within 60 days of check in. He does this to get a discount on the reservation. With the discount he is able to give you a better price than he would otherwise, and make more money for himself...its a win/win. But depending on how its done there is a risk that the reservation might be lost. I would ask if the guy renting to you plans to cancel and rebook to capture the discount. You might want to pay him more so he can pay full price and avoid the risk

Know that most of the time we cant guarantee a particular room or view, You may get the dumpster view. Know that going in and be happy with what you get unless you paid a premium price for a premium view.

My practice is to charge a non refundable $100 deposit which I use for the guest confirmation and then I bill for the rest of the money after I present a confirmation in the guests name. (usually the next day) I expect payment right now, even if the reservation is months into the future. However for the expensive stuff Ill accept a payment schedule. And I dont play the cancel and rebook game when Ive accepted a guests money

If I have a problem like the one Denise is talking about I will do a conference call with my guest to the reservations desk for confirmation, that Im for real and the reservation is legit. If thats not good enough for the guest Ill rent the place to someone else.
 
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ronparise said:
... If the guy thats renting to you is a VIP he may not want to add your name to the reservation until within 60 days of check in. He does this to get a discount on the reservation. With the discount he is able to give you a better price than he would otherwise, and make more money for himself...its a win/win. But depending on how its done there is a risk that the reservation might be lost. I would ask if the guy renting to you plans to cancel and rebook to capture the discount. You might want to pay him more so he can pay full price and avoid the risk ...
Click to expand...

I disagree with what's bolded. If I'm renting from him, then I expect that the price he sets at the outset to be sufficient for the interval he's advertising and that he's not going to muck around with my reservations after we've agreed to the deal.

If the guy wants to take the risk with the cancel-and-rebook game then he should be doing it with the reservations he plans to use for his own stays, or, if he's playing with rentals then he should be laying out the risk and asking for permission ahead of time from the folks to whom he's renting. I'd never rent from someone who's known to play the game without that permission, or from someone who pockets the difference if/when his renters agree to play.
 
SueDonJ said:
I disagree with what's bolded. If I'm renting from him, then I expect that the price he sets at the outset to be sufficient for the interval he's advertising and that he's not going to muck around with my reservations after we've agreed to the deal.

If the guy wants to take the risk with the cancel-and-rebook game then he should be doing it with the reservations he plans to use for his own stays, or, if he's playing with rentals then he should be laying out the risk and asking for permission ahead of time from the folks to whom he's renting. I'd never rent from someone who's known to play the game without that permission, or from someone who pockets the difference if/when his renters agree to play.
Click to expand...

You are exactly right.. and we agree completely

I dont do any mucking around, I charge a fair price based on me paying the full price for a reservation.

But the op asked what he should be on the look out for when renting Wyndham reservations. So Im telling him to look for his name on the confirmation..If its not there your owner may be planning on playing games for the discount

I think if the quoted price seems too good to be true, that there is a possibility that the landlord is planning to cancel and rebook putting the reservation at risk. If you dont ask, you wont know. You can avoid that possibility by renting from someone else that as you say "sets a price at the outset to be sufficient for the interval he's advertising and that he's not going to muck around with my reservations after we've agreed to the deal."
 
ronparise said:
You are exactly right.. and we agree completely

I dont do any mucking around, I charge a fair price based on me paying the full price for a reservation.

But the op asked what he should be on the look out for when renting Wyndham reservations. So Im telling him to look for his name on the confirmation..If its not there your owner may be planning on playing games for the discount

I think if the quoted price seems too good to be true, that there is a possibility that the landlord is planning to cancel and rebook putting the reservation at risk. If you dont ask, you wont know. You can avoid that possibility by renting from someone else that as you say "sets a price at the outset to be sufficient for the interval he's advertising and that he's not going to muck around with my reservations after we've agreed to the deal."
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I should have said something about not applying this to you, Ron, because you made it clear that you don't play the game with rentals. But I still disagree with your original advice to offer more for a rental than what an owner is advertising, as a contingency "just in case" the owner does play the game. The advertised price should be binding to protect the rental, period. People who are renting from owners in good faith shouldn't have to ask questions about things that they may not know about, and, unless you're a timeshare owner in that system you have no need to know about the games.
 
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Well, This is the story...I received a reply to a wish ad I posted on TUG from a gentleman who is a frequent guest on TUG for a number of years. I requested XMAS week 2015 for 4 nights ( 2 units for 2 families)at a resort he does not "own" and has never been to ( I believe he lives on the West coast and the resort I want is on the East coast). (Happens to be my home resort). I requested accommodations in any of several buildings I feel comfortable staying in. He asked me what I was willing to pay and we agreed on a price. I have no idea whether this price is low for what I want or not. I do know I paid the same price for a one bedroom rental there for 7 nights from a RCI weeks owner 2 years ago, but this is 4 nights for a two bedroom.He said he can get one of the desired buildings, but it was sketchy to me (we are only communicating by email so far). Said he could guarantee my building. Wants 50% down and 50 % balance after he adds my name 60 days before check-in.

I checked with my resort and they said he should request deluxe accommodations via phone rather then book on-line, which I mentioned to him. I just have a certain standard for the accommodations that I am willing to accept and I will not accept anything less. I own there so I know what I want. My brother and his family would also be coming with us (have never been to this resort) and staying in their own unit and they have pretty high standards that they are used to, so I don't want to be embarrassed. It's will be the holidays after all.

Honestly, this man's "bedside" manner leaves a lot to be desired- quite a bit snarky from the beginning, which makes me leery. I did request his phone number which he sent to me, but I haven't called him yet.

I am still mulling over whether to just go back to the resort we have gone to the past two years as the owner is easy to deal with. But would really like to change it up a bit and we always wanted to visit this resort for the holidays.
 
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mpumilia said:
Well, This is the story...I received a reply to a wish ad I posted on TUG from a gentleman who is a frequent guest on TUG for a number of years. I requested XMAS week 2015 for 4 nights ( 2 units for 2 families)at a resort he does not "own" and has never been to ( I believe he lives on the West coast and the resort I want is on the East coast). (Happens to be my home resort). I requested accommodations in any of several buildings I feel comfortable staying in. He asked me what I was willing to pay and we agreed on a price. I have no idea whether this price is low for what I want or not. I do know I paid the same price for a one bedroom rental there for 7 nights from a RCI weeks owner 2 years ago, but this is 4 nights for a two bedroom.He said he can get one of the desired buildings, but it was sketchy to me (we are only communicating by email so far). Said he could guarantee my building. Wants 50% down and 50 % balance after he adds my name 60 days before check-in.

I checked with my resort and they said he should request deluxe accommodations via phone rather then book on-line, which I mentioned to him. I just have a certain standard for the accommodations that I am willing to accept and I will not accept anything less. I own there so I know what I want. My brother and his family would also be coming with us (have never been to this resort) and staying in their own unit and they have pretty high standards that they are used to, so I don't want to be embarrassed. It's will be the holidays after all.

Honestly, this man's "bedside" manner leaves a lot to be desired- quite a bit snarky from the beginning, which makes me leery. I did request his phone number which he sent to me, but I haven't called him yet.

I am still mulling over whether to just go back to the resort we have gone to the past two years as the owner is easy to deal with. But would really like to change it up a bit and we always wanted to visit this resort for the holidays.
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If you have checked his reputation then have some faith. Perhaps the point charts specify a building or view so - he knows what he is booking for you? It does not matter that the owner has never been to your resort. You told him what you wanted, and I am sure he will deliver otherwise he would not have commented.

Many VIP owners add the guest name at the 60 day mark because to add the name of a guest has a cost involved or the owner does not want to use up their yearly guest confirmation add ons until a later date - in case if there are problems, cancellation, or other circumstances.

Your contract is your payment and his acceptance of payment and things agreed to.

However, use your instinct - if you do not feel comfortable with the seller, it is better to back out now - so he can book something for someone else.

When I have rented from owners in the past before I became a timeshare owner, I would book closer to the travel date - if there were any problems I could file a claim with my credit card. I have never had to do this. Everything that was promised was always delivered and then some!

Good luck with your decision!

Cynthia T. :)
 
A lot of renters want to wait until the 60 day discount window. If they feel the price is the same outside of 60 days with the risk of losing the reservation they will still take it. It is what the customer demands.

That being said I would be very careful renting through an amateur. A lot of times I have other rooms as backup.

Others will just refund your money or worse.
 
Vacationfuntips said:
If you have checked his reputation then have some faith. Perhaps the point charts specify a building or view so - he knows what he is booking for you? It does not matter that the owner has never been to your resort. You told him what you wanted, and I am sure he will deliver otherwise he would not have commented.

Many VIP owners add the guest name at the 60 day mark because to add the name of a guest has a cost involved or the owner does not want to use up their yearly guest confirmation add ons until a later date - in case if there are problems, cancellation, or other circumstances.

Your contract is your payment and his acceptance of payment and things agreed to.

However, use your instinct - if you do not feel comfortable with the seller, it is better to back out now - so he can book something for someone else.

When I have rented from owners in the past before I became a timeshare owner, I would book closer to the travel date - if there were any problems I could file a claim with my credit card. I have never had to do this. Everything that was promised was always delivered and then some!

Good luck with your decision!

Cynthia T. :)
Click to expand...

I haven't gotten references from him yet. I cannot book close to check-in time because the owner has to book out at the 10 month window. I have no problem with my name being added at the 6 month window.Not to mention, our employers require our time off dates by February! I, too, have never had any problems with renting from an owner. Like a lot of people, he didn't seem to read my whole ad and I had to point out several times that I would only stay in certain buildings and needed a guarantee we would be in one of those buildings. But he did say he could do it.

I guess it is just his attitude that comes across through his correspondence. I have never experienced it before with anyone-Very unusual-from the get go- sarcastic and blunt- telling me to "just answer yes or no" to his questions- very odd. Not sure if that matters, but does cause me to hesitate....
 
am1 said:
A lot of renters want to wait until the 60 day discount window. If they feel the price is the same outside of 60 days with the risk of losing the reservation they will still take it. It is what the customer demands.

That being said I would be very careful renting through an amateur. A lot of times I have other rooms as backup.

Others will just refund your money or worse.
Click to expand...

Not exactly sure what you are saying here.....
 
mpumilia said:
Not exactly sure what you are saying here.....
Click to expand...

am1 might have 4 identical reservations - you want one and paid for one. At the 60 day mark before checkin, he will play the cancel & rebook lottery with the 3 un-rented reservations. He WINs and saves at least 50% of the point value for a unit similar to your paid for unit; uses a Guest Certificate for your party - and then cancels & rebooks your original reservation.

If he LOST one or ALL of the other 3 reservations, YOU would still have a unit. He makes less money.
 
vacationhopeful said:
am1 might have 4 identical reservations - you want one and paid for one. At the 60 day mark before checkin, he will play the cancel & rebook lottery with the 3 un-rented reservations. He WINs and saves at least 50% of the point value for a unit similar to your paid for unit; uses a Guest Certificate for your party - and then cancels & rebooks your original reservation.

If he LOST one or ALL of the other 3 reservations, YOU would still have a unit. He makes less money.
Click to expand...

I lose money but if I wanted to charge a price that reflected making money at full points costs I would be priced too high for most reservations. Overall I make it work. Customers are happy as well.
 
SueDonJ said:
I disagree with what's bolded. If I'm renting from him, then I expect that the price he sets at the outset to be sufficient for the interval he's advertising and that he's not going to muck around with my reservations after we've agreed to the deal.

If the guy wants to take the risk with the cancel-and-rebook game then he should be doing it with the reservations he plans to use for his own stays, or, if he's playing with rentals then he should be laying out the risk and asking for permission ahead of time from the folks to whom he's renting. I'd never rent from someone who's known to play the game without that permission, or from someone who pockets the difference if/when his renters agree to play.
Click to expand...

I give my customers a choice -- pay full price and get a confirmed reservation right now or take the discount and accept the risk. Want to guess which one people choose?
 
chapjim said:
I give my customers a choice -- pay full price and get a confirmed reservation right now or take the discount and accept the risk. Want to guess which one people choose?
Click to expand...

Probably the risk? More power to them but I'm just not built for it - I wouldn't be able to sleep at night while waiting for that 60-day confirmation.

But I don't have a problem with the way you're doing business because you lay out the risk for the renter and let him/her make the choice. What's shady to me is when the game is played without the renter knowing and/or without the discount being extended to the renter.
 
SueDonJ said:
Probably the risk? More power to them but I'm just not built for it - I wouldn't be able to sleep at night while waiting for that 60-day confirmation.

But I don't have a problem with the way you're doing business because you lay out the risk for the renter and let him/her make the choice. What's shady to me is when the game is played without the renter knowing and/or without the discount being extended to the renter.
Click to expand...

If the buyer and seller agree to the terms, why would anyone else care what the seller did or how much he paid for his reservation?

I've had times where I had an agreement with a buyer for, let's say, a 2BR deluxe unit someplace. If I can get an upgrade to a 3BR unit, I do that for my buyer. I don't shake him down for the upgrade.

If after we've agreed on a price and during the sixty day period before check-in, I'm able to upgrade a 1BR unit to a 2BR unit, then I make more money on the transaction. My buyer gets what he bargained for. He has no right to know my cost. If he didn't like my price, he would have gone elsewhere at the beginning.
 
mpumilia said:
(Happens to be my home resort).

I have no idea whether this price is low for what I want or not. I do know
Click to expand...


Have you looked at booking directly with smuggs? Check their rates for comparison. They may be expensive but you will pick your room type and and it includes perks (such as the Smuggs pass and lift tickets) which you wont get when renting from a wyndham owner.

I believe you will have to pay extra for the smuggs pass if you rent from a private party.

Also as you know the unit type (location on resort) is related to check in date you select.

Not to mention Christmas week is very popular and he might not even be able to book it for you at the 10 month mark...
 
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What's shady to me is when the game is played without the renter knowing and/or without the discount being extended to the renter.
Click to expand...

Once a price is agreed upon, I don't think the owner has any obligation to change the price, as long as they are delivering the agreed upon rental, at the agreed upon price.

Using the same theory, if the cost to the owner went up, would you expect the renter to pay more than the agreed upon price?

That's just not how business works, and renting a timeshare is a business transaction.
 
DeniseM said:
Once a price is agreed upon, I don't think the owner has any obligation to change the price, as long as they are delivering the agreed upon rental, at the agreed upon price.

Using the same theory, if the cost to the owner went up, would you expect the renter to pay more than the agreed upon price?

That's just not how business works, and renting a timeshare is a business transaction.
Click to expand...

For me it's all about the risk and I wouldn't choose to do business with an Owner who's known to play the cancel-and-rebook game without letting his renters know that their reservations could be at risk. But for argument's sake if I were to take the risk then I would expect the Owner to at least share the reward with me. Others might choose differently - both as far as the risk and potential business partner - and that's fine for them.

In my business I do let my clients know that the prices for some products fluctuate, sometimes wildly, because certain items are carried intermittently by certain vendors. But before taking a deposit and agreeing to work with them, I give them my best estimated cost ranges in writing and let them know that they'll be billed further if my costs increase OR they'll be refunded if my costs decrease. If they don't like the terms they don't have to hire me, but what's important is that the terms are clearly laid out for both of us. If adjustments have to be made after then I give them a copy of my invoices.
 
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I understand what you are saying about your business, but having a variable price in timeshare rentals would make you look sketchy.

Also, if you tell a renter that you might be able to give them a discount, they WILL EXPECT to get a discount, and they will be unhappy if they don't get it. In timeshare rentals, it's better to only offer what you can promise.

If I rent a timeshare to a renter for $1,400, and he's happy with the price, but then I tell him I might be able to give him a $400 discount when I re-book, and it doesn't work out - he will be disappointed. Better not to go there.
 
DeniseM said:
I understand what you are saying about your business, but having a variable price in timeshare rentals would make you look sketchy.

Also, if you tell a renter that you might be able to give them a discount, they WILL EXPECT to get a discount, and they will be unhappy if they don't get it. In timeshare rentals, it's better to only offer what you can promise.

If I rent a timeshare to a renter for $1,400, and he's happy with the price, but then I tell him I might be able to give him a $400 discount when I re-book, and it doesn't work out - he will be disappointed. Better not to go there.
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How's he going to feel when you try for the discount without him knowing anything about it, and you not only don't get the discount but lose his reservation in the process? ;)

I wouldn't mind the situation you outline with the Owner laying everything on the table, seems simple enough to me, but you may be right that it's best to keep things as simple as possible when you're renting. But to me that means Owner and renter agreeing on a price at the outset and then neither of them doing anything further to risk the confirmed reservation. It doesn't mean the Owner keeping the renter in the dark about games that make the Owner more money by risking the agreed-upon transaction.
 
Sue - those are two completely separate issues.

In your other post, you said that if the owner re-booked at a lower cost, they should pass the discount along to the renter, and that was the point I was addressing.

I don't own Wyndham points, but l have had situations where the renter and I agreed upon a price, and then my cost turned out to be a little lower, so I made a little more on the rental.

I certainly did not take the difference out of my pocket and hand it over to the renter, and I certainly didn't feel any obligation to do so.
 
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SueDonJ said:
For me it's all about the risk and I wouldn't choose to do business with an Owner who's known to play the cancel-and-rebook game without letting his renters know that their reservations could be at risk. But for argument's sake if I were to take the risk then I would expect the Owner to at least share the reward with me. Others might choose differently - both as far as the risk and potential business partner - and that's fine for them.

In my business I do let my clients know that the prices for some products fluctuate, sometimes wildly, because certain items are carried intermittently by certain vendors. But before taking a deposit and agreeing to work with them, I give them my best estimated cost ranges in writing and let them know that they'll be billed further if my costs increase OR they'll be refunded if my costs decrease. If they don't like the terms they don't have to hire me, but what's important is that the terms are clearly laid out for both of us. If adjustments have to be made after then I give them a copy of my invoices.
Click to expand...

As has already been said here, it is possible to play the cancel and rebook game safely, by making two identical reservations. no risk for either party, but the landlord makes more money if he is successful, less money or no money if he is not

It has also been pointed out that a fair price, that is profitable for the landlord is almost impossible. To be competitive the professional landlord almost always bases his price on the discounted reservation. . What you, the customer has no way of knowing is; ... Will the landlord play the game safely or not (with two reservations, or with just one).

What I was trying to say in my earlier post is that when your landlord wont provide the guest confirm until 60 days from check in...you have a clue as to what he is doing, You still dont know how he is doing it....so ask. . If you demand your guest confirm now, as Jim says...you can do that, but it will cost more.

All this is why I just break even on the bulk of what I do. I My price for the common reservation made months and months in advance is based on my cost...and its just too high to be competitive and make money... Where I make my money are on special event, high value, low supply reservations that i have at the 50% discount that I rent inside of 60 days... Im renting reservations now for $1050 that cost me 36000 points (under $200 + 99 for the guest confirm) no games and the customers name goes on right now(after a $100 deposit)
 
DeniseM said:
Sue - those are two completely separate issues.

In your other post, you said that if they owner re-booked at a lower cost, they should pass the discount along to the renter, and that was the point I was addressing.

I don't own Wyndham points, but l have had situations where the renter and I agreed upon a price, and then my cost turned out to be a little lower, so I made a little more on the rental.

I certainly did not take the difference out of my pocket and hand it over to the renter, and I certainly didn't feel any obligation to do so.
Click to expand...

I was only talking about the cancel-and-rebook game being talked about in this thread although I guess it can be extended to anything else an Owner can do to puts a renter's confirmed reservation at risk. With my Marriott Points I can play the same game but even with my own reservations I won't try it with anything except the lowest-demand intervals because of the risk factor. As a renter I would definitely want the decision to take that risk to be my own, and if there's money to be made by taking the risk then I would want to at least share in the reward.

You said, "sketchy." To me there's not much more that's sketchy than an Owner playing games with a renter's confirmed reservation without the renter's knowledge and/or without agreeing to terms in advance that share the risk/reward. If an Owner is setting his rental prices based on what he can expect from the 60-day discount rate and not the rates at the time of rental agreement, then he should make that fact perfectly clear at the outset.
 
ronparise said:
As has already been said here, it is possible to play the cancel and rebook game safely, by making two identical reservations. no risk for either party, but the landlord makes more money if he is successful, less money or no money if he is not ...
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You could have eighteen confirmed reservations but I'm assuming that as a landlord you want to rent out all of them, right? Otherwise at some point you're either sitting on un-rented intervals or, if you're playing the game, you're taking the risk that you'll lose confirmed reservations. I don't understand how the money you might be making by successfully playing the game with some intervals, makes up for the un-rented or lost intervals. And if you're playing the game without your renters' knowledge, you're putting them at a distinct disadvantage.

ronparise said:
It has also been pointed out that a fair price, that is profitable for the landlord is almost impossible. To be competitive the professional landlord almost always bases his price on the discounted reservation. . What you, the customer has no way of knowing is; ... Will the landlord play the game safely or not (with two reservations, or with just one).

What I was trying to say in my earlier post is that when your landlord wont provide the guest confirm until 60 days from check in...you have a clue as to what he is doing, You still dont know how he is doing it....so ask. . If you demand your guest confirm now, as Jim says...you can do that, but it will cost more.

All this is why I just break even on the bulk of what I do. I My price for the common reservation made months and months in advance is based on my cost...and its just too high to be competitive and make money... Where I make my money are on special event, high value, low supply reservations that i have at the 50% discount that I rent inside of 60 days... Im renting reservations now for $1050 that cost me 36000 points (under $200 + 99 for the guest confirm) no games and the customers name goes on right now(after a $100 deposit)
Click to expand...

If I'm renting then I prefer that the Owner set his price based on me getting a confirmed reservation with no risks attached to it. If the Owner can't set rates that meet my criteria as well as sustain a rental business, that's not my problem. ;) I will say as a timeshare owner, though, that I'd be willing to pay rental rates that I know will support an Owner's costs plus some. Maybe that's the problem, that the private timeshare rental business is based on unrealistically low rates. That's not the renters' fault, I don't think, so it seems unfair that they're being made to shoulder this risk (sometimes unknowingly) while the Owners reap the reward.
 
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