Where is Marriott?

All,

I'm puzzled by the lack of announcements from Marriott regarding expansion. Marriott is supposed to the pure-play vacation/lifestyle company, and yet I see the creativity/leadership coming from Wyndham and HGVC.

Both of those companies continue a steady advancement of new properties and, in Wyndham's instance, cross-pollination between its two timeshare networks (Wyndham and Worldmark). Even Worldmark is announcing new locations, after a couple year hiatus, by collaborating with a third party-timeshare system (Raintree).

Where are the upgraded units (Presidential Units?) Wyndham
Who is taking over existing buildings and converting to timeshares? HGVC
Who is absorbing up-scale/nicer existing timeshares? Worldmark
Who is constructing new properties? HGVC and Wyndham

I'm still happy to see the integration of RCDC into MVC -- and perhaps that's what Marriott would point to as new product offering --- but I'm intrigued they've avoided the four expansion opportunities noted above.

Best,

Greg

GregT said:

All,

I'm puzzled by the lack of announcements from Marriott regarding expansion. Marriott is supposed to the pure-play vacation/lifestyle company, and yet I see the creativity/leadership coming from Wyndham and HGVC.

Both of those companies continue a steady advancement of new properties and, in Wyndham's instance, cross-pollination between its two timeshare networks (Wyndham and Worldmark). Even Worldmark is announcing new locations, after a couple year hiatus, by collaborating with a third party-timeshare system (Raintree).

Where are the upgraded units (Presidential Units?) Wyndham
Who is taking over existing buildings and converting to timeshares? HGVC
Who is absorbing up-scale existing timeshares? Worldmark
Who is constructing new properties? HGVC and Wyndham

I'm still happy to see the integration of RCDC into MVC -- and perhaps that's what Marriott would point to as new product offering --- but I'm intrigued they've avoided the four expansion opportunities noted above.

Best,

Greg

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During our last update over New Year's Week, we were told to expect announcements regarding expanding the 'city escape' options for cities like New York, DC, and Chicago where Marriott would be modifying existing hotel properties to add vacation club units on the upper floors. A potential Caribbean related announcement was also alluded to, but nothing specific.

We took the opportunity to discuss recent events involving the Marriott/Atlantis deal and how Marriott needs to seek ways to try and leverage that opportunity into a Vacation Club option and get their foot on the ground (in the sand) of an area where MVCI isn't represented - The Bahamas.

Greg...perhaps MVC seeks to lead in a 5th category you didn't mention.....

• "New Locations" hinted at during sales presentations. :rofl:

What is RCDC?

NYFLTRAVELER said:

What is RCDC?

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Ritz Carlton Destinations Club

Greg, I have been wondering the same thing. It seems that MVW is resting on their laurels and may end up getting left behind. It seems that a lot of the other chains are moving forward and Marriott is still stuck in 2008 when it all fell apart. They really need to start looking at the future. While I don't believe anything touted by the sales reps, I think there have been some hints in the earnings calls to some possible new locations. I just wonder if they will ever get around to announcing them.

One other thought, why come out with new locations in places like New York, Bali?, where they currently don't own property when they own or owned property in a number of locations that don't ever seem to get mentioned.

As a new owner I am disappointed as to how dated some of the properties look. I think I was sold on the MVCI experience as a result of my stays at Newport Coast; While some of the other properties I visited have the same look and feel (e.g. Lakeshore) others I have seen are disappointingly dated looking (including Grande Vista and the "Palms" properties).

I agree wyndham and HGVC have been expanding like crazy over the last year or so. But Marriott is not alone in being stagnant, Starwood is right there with them. Coincidentally these are the same two companies who have been aggressive with ROFR.

Ian

NYFLTRAVELER said:

As a new owner I am disappointed as to how dated some of the properties look. I think I was sold on the MVCI experience as a result of my stays at Newport Coast; While some of the other properties I visited have the same look and feel (e.g. Lakeshore) others I have seen are disappointingly dated looking (including Grande Vista and the "Palms" properties).

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Interesting again how perceptions vary. While I personally agree with you about Grande Vista, many do not. And I think Newport Coast is also somewhat disappointing, while I am very high on Sabal Palms, which I no longer consider to be dated. To each his own.

Fasttr said:

Greg...perhaps MVC seeks to lead in a 5th category you didn't mention.....

• "New Locations" hinted at during sales presentations. :rofl:

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Hilarious

NYFLTRAVELER said:

As a new owner I am disappointed as to how dated some of the properties look. I think I was sold on the MVCI experience as a result of my stays at Newport Coast; While some of the other properties I visited have the same look and feel (e.g. Lakeshore) others I have seen are disappointingly dated looking (including Grande Vista and the "Palms" properties).

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I've been an owner for about 15 years and have seen Marriott timeshares become more opulent in the common areas over the years. While I saw that as improvement it was not critical to have everywhere or every time. Architectural designs change over time but within reason they all provide the same level of comfort and service and living space in great locations. Thats what I bought. Of course this from someone who thinks Monarch is one of the best in the system.

It may be the markets in which these companies sell. HGVC is expanding in Honolulu, primarily to sell to the Asian market. I may be wrong, but I don't think Marriott is as big in that market. It seems Marriott markets mostly in the U.S. and Europe. The same seems to be true for Westin. HGVC does not seem to be expanding in Las Vegas and Orlando, just Hawaii.

BTW...We stayed at Grande Vista in November and it seemed ok to me. It was clean and well maintained.

bastroum said:

It may be the markets in which these companies sell. HGVC is expanding in Honolulu, primarily to sell to the Asian market. I may be wrong, but I don't think Marriott is as big in that market. It seems Marriott markets mostly in the U.S. and Europe. The same seems to be true for Westin. HGVC does not seem to be expanding in Las Vegas and Orlando, just Hawaii.

BTW...We stayed at Grande Vista in November and it seemed ok to me. It was clean and well maintained.

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Cetrainly no expnsion or major marketing in Europe. Only 4 Resort - sales at the 3 Spanish resorts are closed on Fridays and Saturdays and sales staffing was decimated several years ago.

I had been expecting some major expansion in Asia to address the Chinese market and others but so far nothing. Bali has long been mentioned but has never materialised. Stability is a big concern in Aisa, Indonesia (Bali) not the most stable of places, Thailand still under military control, Malaysia has an increasingly islamist government, Singapore is very expensive. Also MVCI in Asia Pacific is still struggling to work out how to integrate the Asia Pacific Points system with the DC Points system and the rest of the MVCI weeks portfolio.

Fairwinds said:

Hilarious




I've been an owner for about 15 years and have seen Marriott timeshares become more opulent in the common areas over the years. While I saw that as improvement it was not critical to have everywhere or every time. Architectural designs change over time but within reason they all provide the same level of comfort and service and living space in great locations. Thats what I bought. Of course this from someone who thinks Monarch is one of the best in the system.

Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying; however we bought for the resort-like experience at the property --- top resorts keep up with the times from amenities to appearance and things in-between. I did not realize that so many of the properties were dated and do believe, whether its updating signage, exterior painting, sprucing up of room interiors or lobby MVCI needs to keep up with the times as well

We have owned Marriott timeshares since 1987. Marriott has always kept their word about the 5 year soft good refurbishments and the 10 year total refurbishments. In that respect they are up to date. Are they opulent --no. We used to have full daily maid service (free) until Troy Asche sent out surveys to HH owners saying that if it was continued our maintenance fees would go up exponentially. Owners voted ( I did not) to discontinue it. We have exchanged our Mexican timeshares to the Grand Luxe properties in Mexico. They are opulent. Two bedroom units have 2.5 bathrooms, pools on the balconies, twice daily maid service, fitness facilities that are fabulous and multiple excellent restaurants on the properties. Personally I do not need opulent and other than some small issues at the OC I love my Marriott timeshares.
As to their expansions to news destinations I would love to see some new places. Where I do not know. We did the update meeting at the OC 2 weeks ago and the representative did not say anything about new destinations. She only wanted us to buy points. We are premier plus and we see no need to buy.

I agree. Although I did not expect Marriott to be building any new resorts anytime soon, I was hoping they would have been more aggressive in purchasing/leasing and converting other properties.I originally had high hopes for the explorer collection thinking it was a great way of adding urban locations to the portfolio, especially for short stays.I like the locations they are adding but the point totals required are just way to high to be a good value IMHO.Hopefully, they will have some exciting news about new locations in the upcoming year.

NYFLTRAVELER said:

I understand what you are saying; however we bought for the resort-like experience at the property --- top resorts keep up with the times from amenities to appearance and things in-between. I did not realize that so many of the properties were dated and do believe, whether its updating signage, exterior painting, sprucing up of room interiors or lobby MVCI needs to keep up with the times as well

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Fair enough. And don't get me wrong, I like the resort experiance too. However once you go beyond maintenance and the occasional remodel of existing structures you are talking about major special assessments that owners would not support.
This has me wondering: As the points system grows does that make the HOA's irrelevant and will Marriott update older resorts as you suggest, e.g. lazy river pools? And if they did would that change point allocation/reservation requirements? Do points owners vote or have representation like weeks owners do?

NYFLTRAVELER said:

As a new owner I am disappointed as to how dated some of the properties look. I think I was sold on the MVCI experience as a result of my stays at Newport Coast; While some of the other properties I visited have the same look and feel (e.g. Lakeshore) others I have seen are disappointingly dated looking (including Grande Vista and the "Palms" properties).

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BocaBoy said:

Interesting again how perceptions vary. While I personally agree with you about Grande Vista, many do not. And I think Newport Coast is also somewhat disappointing, while I am very high on Sabal Palms, which I no longer consider to be dated. To each his own.

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I have just stayed at royal palms and even though refurbished I think the units still look dated. Would definitely stay there again though if we didn't have grand and lakeshore units available. I think it is the feeling of staying in a rented condo and not at a resort. Had the same feeling when we stayed at sheraton vistana resorts. It is a townhouse complex trying to on be a resort.
At grand vista i stayed for 2 seperate weeks in july. Both times i asked for a refurbished room and got it. The units furnishings were on par with koolina, newport coast and lakeshore reserve. Exteriors were on par with above mentioned resorts. We liked grand so much for the closeness to seaworld and such we are going back for another 2 weeks in july with another week at lakeshore. I guess to each their own.

Fairwinds said:

Fair enough. And don't get me wrong, I like the resort experiance too. However once you go beyond maintenance and the occasional remodel of existing structures you are talking about major special assessments that owners would not support.
This has me wondering: As the points system grows does that make the HOA's irrelevant and will Marriott update older resorts as you suggest, e.g. lazy river pools? And if they did would that change point allocation/reservation requirements? Do points owners vote or have representation like weeks owners do?

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The HOA boards at the resorts are elected by the weeks owners and the MFs are paid by the weeks owners. The weeks that form the DC Trust are - YES YOU GUESSED IT - owned by the TRUST and therefore the votes for the board will be by those who own the weeks !!!! including the TRUST weeks - hence Marriott Vacation Club will be voting for the HOA board members who will be approving the MFs.

frank808 said:

I have just stayed at royal palms and even though refurbished I think the units still look dated. Would definitely stay there again though if we didn't have grand and lakeshore units available. I think it is the feeling of staying in a rented condo and not at a resort. Had the same feeling when we stayed at sheraton vistana resorts. It is a townhouse complex trying to on be a resort.
At grand vista i stayed for 2 seperate weeks in july. Both times i asked for a refurbished room and got it. The units furnishings were on par with koolina, newport coast and lakeshore reserve. Exteriors were on par with above mentioned resorts. We liked grand so much for the closeness to seaworld and such we are going back for another 2 weeks in july with another week at lakeshore. I guess to each their own.

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I think Sabal Palms has a different feel from the other Palms resorts, partly because it is such a short walk to the World Center hotel. I think that gives it more of a resort feel than Royal or Imperial Palms.

Definetly for sabal feels like more a part of the resort. From royal you have to drive or walk along the backside of world center. If they had a nice green path to world center I think it would have more of feeling you are part of world center property. Walking along the loading docks and trash areas makes you feel like you are trying to sneak on property from royal. I would stay at palms properties again if lakeshore and grand vista was booked.
You might want to try grand vista again and ask for a refurbished room. It makes a big difference and grand is a nice property. You are right as the checkin area needs to be bigger. Me check in went smooth both times with almost no wait and check I just called in and said I was leaving. Great not having a bill at all upon leaving. In hawaii I still get a bill for the transient accomodations tax upon checkout.

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Getting back to Greg's original topic.... HERE is what its all about for MVC and why they will likely continue with the "asset light" and aggressive ROFR strategy until the point in time that they are looking a couple years down the road and see that their inventory of available points to sell at that future point in time is starting to get thin.

Fasttr said:

Getting back to Greg's original topic.... HERE is what its all about for MVC and why they will likely continue with the "asset light" and aggressive ROFR strategy until the point in time that they are looking a couple years down the road and see that their inventory of available points to sell at that future point in time is starting to get thin.

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Exactly! The margins on the buybacks and ROFR's are so huge that it just isn't worth doing anything else until it starts to dry up. It might be getting stale for some of the existing owners but as long as they can keep selling points at the current rate it doesn't matter.

As baby boomers age more and more units will be available. Although I don't expect prices to be as low as they were between 2008 and 2012, I would be surprised to see prices rise much more than they are at today. With prices so low, these companies will be exercising their ROFR as long as people are buying them retail.

PassionForTravel said:

I agree wyndham and HGVC have been expanding like crazy over the last year or so. But Marriott is not alone in being stagnant, Starwood is right there with them. Coincidentally these are the same two companies who have been aggressive with ROFR.

Ian

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Starwoods main issue is that they don't have ROFR at a lot of their resorts. I think there is only five or six. They also sell weeks. While the weeks are tied to points. You can't use your points to book until 8 months out. Is that an issue for many buyers? Perhaps not.

Marriott is being fairly aggressive with ROFR. That will only sustain them so long. They certainly can't feed their sales machine with ROFR, reacquires, and buybacks alone. At some point they will have to start building again. Though I suspect and would expect them to builds at one of the many sites where they hold land and unfinished resorts.

dioxide45 said:

Though I suspect and would expect them to builds at one of the many sites where they hold land and unfinished resorts.

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I wouldn't hold my breath. MVCI has made it clear on their earning call that they do not plan to get in the real estate business.
Right now based on performance, they are doing fine with what they have as far as inventory and sales.
They can feed the sales/PR machine with new "explorer" announcements and more RC integration for another year or two.

Remember with a points based system, all those crappy summer weeks in the Desert and other off season are still points for them to sell.