Pahio (Wyndham) or Grand Pacific Resorts?

Recently the owners at Makai Club switched management companies from Wyndham to Grand Pacific Resorts. I'm sure they had good reason to make the switch. I received my Proxy Vote documents in today's mail, for my ownership at Kauai Beach Villas, and I'm wondering if other Pahio resort owners may want to consider doing the same as Makai Club did?

I have virtually no experience with this sort of thing. Does anyone have better information of what/who/why a resort switches like this, how we'd go about the process, and how it even starts to be an option?

Dave

Makai Club was originally something else before Pahio took them over, Kauai Beach Villas is a whole other animal and probably doesn't have anything written into their bylaws about doing this like Makai did.

I've been happy with Grand Pacific Management. Perhaps owners were not satisified with Wyndham.

Sterling

BMWguynw said:

I have virtually no experience with this sort of thing. Does anyone have better information of what/who/why a resort switches like this, how we'd go about the process, and how it even starts to be an option?

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The switch is normally made when most owners vote for a change. It could be for any reason of being unhappy with current management, such as lack of communication, resorts not being updated timely, not enough owner benefits, etc.

I know GPR is fairly aggressive about taking over management at as many places as they can. The reason I say this is because they ask every owner, in every survey about any topic, if they know of another resort that would benefit from them coming in to manage the property. It seems like they are just asking for the name of the resort. I would guess they market to the resorts from the surveys.

Here is a link to their contact us page.
http://www.grandpacificresorts.com/company/contact.aspx
You could always start there.

Is the proxy vote about election of officers or about asking owners about interest in changing management companies?

In our experience, it is the HOA board members that will pursue the option to switch management companies. This is an option when the contract of the present company is near it's end. Check with the board members to find out when the present contact is over-it may have automatic renewal unless the board response in writing their wish to terminate the contract. I would talk to the board members and express the weakness of the existing management company and how GPR strengths may resolve those issues.

Thanks for the info. I'm not necessarily advocating for a change in management, I'm just wondering when and how such a thing happens. It's true, I've not been thrilled about Wyndham's management of KBV since I've been an owner there, and I wonder whether GPR could do a better job. Obviously, the owners at Makai Club felt it was worth making the change.

Dave

luvsvacation22 said:

Is the proxy vote about election of officers or about asking owners about interest in changing management companies?

In our experience, it is the HOA board members that will pursue the option to switch management companies. This is an option when the contract of the present company is near it's end. Check with the board members to find out when the present contact is over-it may have automatic renewal unless the board response in writing their wish to terminate the contract. I would talk to the board members and express the weakness of the existing management company and how GPR strengths may resolve those issues.

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This is good to know. I'll be at the resort again in the Fall, so I'll ask those questions then. The Owners Meeting is next month, and I can't be there. The proxy vote paperwork I got was about electing a Board member and "to transact such business as may properly come before the meeting and any adjournments thereof." Nothing in the Agenda mentions renewing the management contract.

I've heard about Wyndham (and others) who stack the Board of Directors with their own employees, to give an unfair advantage in management decisions. Do you happen to know whether the descriptions of potential Board members has to disclose such information? How would I find out the true allegiance of existing Board members?

Dave

I am quite pleased with the new renovations with no special assessment, so at this point, I'm happy with Wyndham. I think the property looks great under their management.

BMWguynw said:

Recently the owners at Makai Club switched management companies from Wyndham to Grand Pacific Resorts. I'm sure they had good reason to make the switch. I received my Proxy Vote documents in today's mail, for my ownership at Kauai Beach Villas, and I'm wondering if other Pahio resort owners may want to consider doing the same as Makai Club did?

I have virtually no experience with this sort of thing. Does anyone have better information of what/who/why a resort switches like this, how we'd go about the process, and how it even starts to be an option?

Dave

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Aloha Dave,
My pragmatic guess is that KBV will always be managed by Wyndham or Wyndham's successors. I posted the details about why last year on http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1509705&postcount=18
I'm with Denise in that I'm reasonably content (even happy) with the current situation. Assuming there is no simmering imminent revolt, I forecast that Wyndham will have defacto majority control within a decade or so.
Jack

Jack, you and Denise have the same opinion I have. I'm not *mad* at Wyndham. I'm just curious about when and how an association goes about switching management companies, and why they'd do it.

In thinking about my ownership at KBV, there are some unanswered questions: What happened to the proceeds of the special assessment they collected in 2005 or so, supposedly to build the fancy pool that never happened? The scaled down version we got was much less than what was promised. My understanding was the funds were transferred to pay for the Bali Hai project - so when do we get our money back?

Why have maintenance fees risen by more than 30% in the last six years? True, there was no special assessment collected for the currently ongoing renovations, but it seems costs have risen faster than inflation would indicate.

Not complaining, understand, just wondering.

Dave

I am in no way defending Wyndham, but I think it's way too late to do anything about the SA/Pool issue, and I think a 30% increase in MF in the last 6 years is not outside the norm for Hawaii. Part of it is an increase in local taxes.

The BOD makes the decision to switch management companies, but my experience has been that the big management companies stack the board with compliant directors. One way that this happens is that the elections almost never get a quorum, so instead of counting the member's votes, the BOD selects the new directors.

DeniseM said:

The BOD makes the decision to switch management companies, but my experience has been that the big management companies stack the board with compliant directors. One way that this happens is that the elections almost never get a quorum, so instead of counting the member's votes, the BOD selects the new directors.

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So the question then is for other KBV owners: Do we have a preferred result for the current Board election? As I read the documents, the current Board Treasurer is running for Board Director, against an owner in good standing who is not currently on the Board.

Dave

BMWguynw said:

So the question then is for other KBV owners: Do we have a preferred result for the current Board election? As I read the documents, the current Board Treasurer is running for Board Director, against an owner in good standing who is not currently on the Board.

Dave

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It probably is a moot point, because these elections almost never get a quorum, so the board will choose the new director, and they will choose one of their own...

I was involved in a campaign to get a Tugger on the SDO board, and there was no quorum, so the board choose the two new directors. Even though the candidate that Tuggers supported got the most votes, the board did not choose him.

DeniseM said:

It probably is a moot point, because these elections almost never get a quorum, so the board will choose the new director, and they will choose one of their own...

I was involved in a campaign to get a Tugger on the SDO board, and there was no quorum, so the board choose the two new directors. Even though the candidate that Tuggers supported got the most votes, the board did not choose him.

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Thanks, Denise. I've never participated in a timeshare proxy vote before, so wasn't sure whether this one made any difference. It was knowing the Makai Club voted out Wyndham last year that prompted this entire thread. I'd be fine if GPR took over managing KBV.

Dave

I've actually talked to Trish, the current board president, as well as a rep from Grand Pacific a while back -- when the Makai Club news hit TUG.

I won't publicly disclose anything that was discussed with Trish, but I do know the Board did consider a change in management at contract renewal as would be prudent in their normal course of business.

As for the GP rep, I was contacted by her after I inquired about the Makai Club change and whether this would be applicable across all Pahio resorts (as we know now, it wasn't). She was more than gracious with her time and discussed that they had inquired with the board about management services and that they were "extremely interested" in acquiring the contracts for any of the Pahio resorts. I appreciated the fact that she would take the time to address a comment sent in by a plain old owner at KBV -- that says something to me about customer service.

I agree with Denise about voting. It almost is a lost cause, beause getting a quorum is almost impossible, and this is disregarding the votes that Wyndham has control over. I also don't think Wyndham is doing a terrible job, but that also can be attributed to the oversight that our board is currently doing -- my understanding is that they are not Wyndham controlled. I have no way of verifying this either way of course. However, this should not discourage anyone from voting their proxy in any way they see fit -- there is no hope for change if we all don't vote because a quorum seems out of reach.

-ryan

BMWguynw said:

. . . What happened to the proceeds of the special assessment they collected in 2005 or so, supposedly to build the fancy pool that never happened? . . .

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Aloha Dave,
In a later posting in the same thread I referenced earlier I claimed there never was a special assessment. There was a large increase in annual MF that was supposed to address/finance the pool improvements over about five years. The rest is in that old post. Just my memory. I have nothing to prove it.
Jack

jacknsara said:

Aloha Dave,
In a later posting in the same thread I referenced earlier I claimed there never was a special assessment. There was a large increase in annual MF that was supposed to address/finance the pool improvements over about five years. The rest is in that old post. Just my memory. I have nothing to prove it.
Jack

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Jack, I appreciate you refreshing my memory that we actually went through this last year. I also grant that this topic is old news, and is a bit of a dead horse. It happened about the time I bought my first week at KBV, and I believe I was in on that large MF increase. Regardless of what they called it, my memory is that the increase was passed off as providing funding for the KBV pool complex. And as we've also discussed previously, that never happened, as the money was "redirected" to cover the cost of the pool complex at Bali Hai. To me, that means KBV owners subsidized the cost of the Bali Hai pool complex.

What I don't remember is KBV owners being asked if they cared that their money was being given away to another resort. If KBV was being managed by GPR, or another independent company, I'm inclined to think KBV owners would still have their money.

Not a deal breaker, because I still like owning at the resort. But it IS a bone of contention with Wyndham.

Dave

BMWguynw said:

Regardless of what they called it, my memory is that the increase was passed off as providing funding for the KBV pool complex. And as we've also discussed previously, that never happened, as the money was "redirected" to cover the cost of the pool complex at Bali Hai. To me, that means KBV owners subsidized the cost of the Bali Hai pool complex.

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That increase/special assessment was before I bought at KBV. But if KBV money was given to Bali Hai, isn't that illegal?

The story behind the Makai Club was in Time Sharing Today about 6-12 months ago. It took them a few of years but people got fed up enough to send in enough proxy's that the owners were able to get the Wyndham stooges off of the board and have a true owner controlled board. Then they proceeded to put the maintenance contract out for competitive bid and Wyndham lost.

Ian

Grand Pacific Resorts took over the management of Hanalei Bay. There was nothing wrong with the Trading Places, but the HBR owner controlled board, in the midst of a total room renovation, felt that the move was in the best interest of the resort. GPR was able to assist with their buying power to help with the renovation costs and rental income. Since taking over great strides have been made to get this resort moving back towards being one of the best resorts on the north shore. So far they seem to be meeting the promises that they made prior to their taking on the management. When we were there last May we were quite pleased with what they were doing.