Ocean Pointe or Grand Vista

Looking for opinions on which would be the better trader.
Ocean pointe gold or Grand Vista gold
both 2 bedroom lockoffs.
I know Ocean Point maintenance fees are higher but would love to know if it is worth it.
Thanks for your knowledge, it is appreciated

Ocean Pointe Gold edges out Gold at MGV. Ocean Pointe Silver will actually do just as well as Ocean Pointe Gold provided you don't book the lowest demand weeks. Platinum MGV edges out Gold Ocean Pointe as expected.

So even though Gold at Ocean Pointe edges out Gold at MGV is it worth the extra maintenance fee as a trader? In my opinion definitely not. You might edge the other out on a pending request with all else being equal but that is about it. In the grand scheme of II the two are extremely close as traders. You are likely to see the exact same instant inventory. The maintenance fee at Ocean Pointe is quite a bit higher and if you add that up over 10 years it's a sizable amount.

Platinum at Ocean Pointe will edge out Platinum at MGV by about the same margin as Platinum MGV vs Gold at Ocean Pointe. At the end of the day Ocean Pointe does trade better but with Gold/Silver at both resorts it is almost a tie.

The value in owning Ocean Pointe over MGV is more for use or rentals rather than trading, but you can also still book at Ocean Pointe with owning MGV by using the Florida Club at 6 months out.

Here is a trading power index to use as a guide with MPB Platinum as the benchmark.

Ocean Pointe Platinum - 100%
Grande Vista Platinum - 94%
Ocean Pointe Gold/Silver - 88%
Grande Vista Gold - 82%

Also consider, you will likely pay more in upfront cost to buy an Ocean Pointe week over the same season at Grande Vista. You could probably buy a 3BR Grande Vista Platinum and get a great trader for about the same if not lower cost and same MFs as an Ocean Pointe 2BR.

This is true. I will rerun my index tonight adding in the 3BRs at both resorts.

Saintsfanfl said:

Here is a trading power index to use as a guide with MPB Platinum as the benchmark.

Ocean Pointe Platinum - 100%
Grande Vista Platinum - 94%
Ocean Pointe Gold/Silver - 88%
Grande Vista Gold - 82%

Click to expand...

This is a good guide. I think though it really only comes in to the equation when you are placing an ongoing request. Any of these should be able to see the leftovers that popup in instant exchange at any given time. Or are you looking at instant exchange to get these percentages?

No, you are right. This is for a request. The increments should be halved so I messed up a bit but I will post one more complete tonight.

Even when there is a difference with instant may as well put in a request for something that difficult. I personally use the cheapest possible option for instant trading. I used a Willow Ridge studio this morning to snag a 3BR at Ocean Pointe.

This took a while. At the beginning of the year it became obvious that things were tweaked. Not just with Marriott but the entire system. Size is no longer the king, but this change was needed. I was surprised at the logic of the results so I added Willow Ridge for comparison. It makes sense although I am befuddled that MBP 2BR Gold came in better than MPB 3BR Gold.

MPB 3BR Platinum 100.00%
MGV 3BR Platinum 97.16%
MPB 2BR Platinum 93.60%
MGV 3BR Gold 91.47%
MGV 2BR Platinum 90.76%
MBP 2BR Platinum 90.76%
MBP 2BR Gold 90.76%
MPB 3BR Gold 88.29%
MPB 3BR Silver 88.29%
MHB 2BR Platinum 87.92%
MPB 1BR Platinum 87.20%
MPB 2BR Gold 85.07%
MPB 2BR Silver 85.07%
MGV 2BR Gold 85.07%
MHB 2BR Gold 85.07%
MGV 1BR Platinum 84.36%
MBP 1BR Platinum 84.36%
MHB 1BR Platinum 81.52%
MHB 1BR Gold 81.52%
MHB 2BR Silver 77.91%
MBP Studio Platinum 70.14%
MPB Studio Platinum 67.30%
MGV Studio Platinum 67.30%
MBP Studio Gold 67.30%
MPB Studio Silver 67.30%
MHB Studio Platinum 67.30%
MPB Studio Gold 64.46%
MGV Studio Gold 64.46%
MHB Studio Gold 63.38%
MHB 1BR Silver 60.99%
MHB Studio Silver 51.75%

Saintsfanfl said:

I personally use the cheapest possible option for instant trading. I used a Willow Ridge studio this morning to snag a 3BR at Ocean Pointe.

Click to expand...

Did you by any chance grab that 3BR for early May......that I was looking at? I saw one with a 1BR Westgate, changed screens for a minute, came back and poof, it was gone. Actually it was not something I could have used because I have a couple of weeks scheduled in FL later in the month. However, I went back to look in amazement and you or someone else had pulled the trigger!

Jim

I did grab it. I can't use it except for maybe the weekend but I grabbed it for my parents and sister. It is interesting because those few May weeks were dumped by Marriott with no preference and no trading power needed. I could have grabbed it with my worst studio trader that can't see much of anything but it is too early to deposit it.

There is another this morning for the same date.

Just curious, how did you do this comparison ?

rjp1020 said:

Just curious, how did you do this comparison ?

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It is based on the double occupancy cash discount on the most expensive room for a specific cruise exchange using the best week for each respective unit. First I look at how much II charges to book the same room with cash. Then I set the highest discount as the benchmark and 100%. Then each unit below is based on the percentage of that benchmark discount. All reservations were done between ~12-18 months out (II allows Marriott deposits up to 18 months out). I do not believe any trading power drops off within this range.

I am convinced that the cash discount for a cruise is directly related to the trading power of the unit. This list makes sense and is in line with some general testing. For example we were testing the visibility of a 2BR at Crystal Shores a few weeks ago. It used to be that a 3BR would trump a 2BR just about anywhere but during that test this was not the case. I was playing around with a 3BR at MGV and MPB where some reservations were not able to see the Crystal Shores but a 2BR Plat at MGV and MBP could see it.

I don't think everyone knowing the relative trading powers of the various Marriott's matters. I do not expect to find any secrets. I think whatever tweak they did recently equalized the trading power of various units to align with reality. For the most part you get what you pay for.

I would like to find a new benchmark so for anyone that has a good power unit and does not mind sharing I would like to record the discount and update my list. This analysis can only be done properly until other variables change.

The benchmark cruise I used is:

Caribbean - Eastern
April 2015
7 Night Caribbean Eastern
Carnival Cruise Lines
Carnival Conquest
April 12
2 Adults
Captain's Suite

I am very interested in knowing the Hawaii and HHI weeks.

That's really interesting.. I guess I did that calc in the past to see if booking cruises through II was worthwhile against cash etc but didn't consider using it to baseline trade power like that. That's great insight! Thanks!

I have some non-Marriott traders that score between 44.58% and 96.45%. I won't disclose what they are but obviously the Marriott preference is the biggest obstacle to anything close to a great exchange using a non-Marriott.

I found some stronger weeks within some of the Platinum seasons so I am working on an update of my list.

I think you may be splitting hairs. If you can get Grand Vista in the Florida Club, you may be better off. I've used this option to get really good units for trading.

I own Platinum at GV, but that shouldn't make a difference with FC.

Some searching for better weeks yielded different results. I also added the other two FC resorts and some missing units.

This also represents potential. All weeks within the floating season are not equal.


MGV 3BR Platinum 100.00%
MPB 3BR Platinum 100.00%
MPB 3BR Silver 97.16%
MBP 2BR Platinum 96.45%
MLE 2BR Plat Plus 96.45%
MLE 2BR Platinum 96.45%
MGV 3BR Gold 94.31%
MBP 2BR Gold 93.60%
MGV 2BR Platinum 93.60%
MPB 2BR Platinum 93.60%
MVD 2BR Plat Plus 93.60%
MLE 2BR Gold 92.29%
MVD 2BR Silver 90.76%
MPB 2BR Silver 90.13%
MBP 1BR Platinum 90.05%
MLE 2BR Silver 89.51%
MPB 3BR Gold 88.29%
MGV 2BR Gold 87.92%
MHB 2BR Platinum 87.92%
MVD 2BR Platinum 87.92%
MVD 2BR Gold 87.92%
MBP 1BR Gold 87.20%
MGV 1BR Platinum 87.20%
MPB 1BR Platinum 87.20%
MHB 2BR Gold 85.07%
MPB 2BR Gold 85.07%
MPB 1BR Silver 84.36%
MHB 1BR Platinum 81.52%
MHB 1BR Gold 81.52%
MGV 1BR Gold 80.98%
MPB 1BR Gold 78.67%
MHB 2BR Silver 77.91%
MBP Studio Platinum 72.99%
MBP Studio Gold 70.14%
MGV Studio Platinum 70.14%
MHB Studio Platinum 67.30%
MPB Studio Platinum 67.30%
MPB Studio Silver 67.30%
MGV Studio Gold 64.46%
MPB Studio Gold 64.46%
MHB Studio Gold 63.38%
MHB 1BR Silver 60.99%
MHB Studio Silver 51.75%

Since Ocean Pointe receives fairly high DC point values for Silver and Gold weeks, I would expect fewer OP owners would trade through interval. This should increase the demand for those weeks. If you ever plan to use the week, I would prefer Ocean Pointe because it is one of the few ocean front MVC resorts in Florida.

Saintsfanfl said:

Some searching for better weeks yielded different results. I also added the other two FC resorts and some missing units.

This also represents potential. All weeks within the floating season are not equal.

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this. I find this interesting and know it must have taken some time to do.

Can you provide more info on what weeks were used for each? I realize all floating season weeks are not the same, and wondered if you used an average week for each season?

Funny how the MHB 1BR Plat and Gold yielded the same results, although I would never buy Gold for fear that I could not get rid of it easily if II trading value for MHB went sour.

-ryan

sjsharkie said:

Thanks for posting this. I find this interesting and know it must have taken some time to do.

Can you provide more info on what weeks were used for each? I realize all floating season weeks are not the same, and wondered if you used an average week for each season?

Funny how the MHB 1BR Plat and Gold yielded the same results, although I would never buy Gold for fear that I could not get rid of it easily if II trading value for MHB went sour.

-ryan

Click to expand...

I would have posted the weeks used but I cannot access my spreadsheet right now. I will post on Monday. I did not use an average.

I think the MHB 1BR is odd as well. I just checked it to make sure and I get the same discount whether it is a 7/3/15 Platinum check-in or 5/9/15 Gold check-in. Does it mean they will be a tie on a request? Maybe, maybe not. Logically July should be higher but there are certainly plenty of people wanting to go to Branson in May and its not the same type of people that want to go in July. 2/28/15 Silver on the other hand is not even close and seems to be at the bottom of the barrel. This makes sense.

I know for almost all the units I used either Week 51/52, 7, 26/27, or 47. Initially I thought week 7 was better in places like MBP and MGV but weeks 51/52 were better by a sizable margin.

Also it is worth noting that the differences are not based on week to week but more of a range of weeks. Weeks 51/52 are probably an exception but in order to test the range one would have to test each week. I am not quite that motivated.

With this method one could also test the drop in trading power as it gets closer to check-in. I am convinced that trading power doesn't drop until at least 6 months prior to check-in.

Saintsfanfl said:

II think the MHB 1BR is odd as well. I just checked it to make sure and I get the same discount whether it is a 7/3/15 Platinum check-in or 5/9/15 Gold check-in. Does it mean they will be a tie on a request? Maybe, maybe not. Logically July should be higher but there are certainly plenty of people wanting to go to Branson in May and its not the same type of people that want to go in July. 2/28/15 Silver on the other hand is not even close and seems to be at the bottom of the barrel. This makes sense.

Click to expand...

I agree. I'd figure July 4 week to be the highest demand for Branson...but then again, the TDI shows any prime summer (June/July) to be tied for top demand. Week 19 for Gold seems right to be the strongest Gold trader since it bumps up against platinum.

Saintsfanfl said:

I know for almost all the units I used either Week 51/52, 7, 26/27, or 47. Initially I thought week 7 was better in places like MBP and MGV but weeks 51/52 were better by a sizable margin.

Click to expand...

My experience has been that weeks 51 and 52 trump everything in Orlando. It's really the only weeks that demand may overcome supply IMHO -- I own a week 52 fixed at Vistana and it gets great value in RCI (I've never traded it in II even though I have Starwood preference there).

Again, thanks for the info. I know II is so wonky that it is impossible to get a 100% accurate picture of what trading power is since trades sometimes seem to vanish and then reappear at any given time. Your input helps -- I'll be interested to see what weeks were used for Gold as well.

-ryan

Initially I used Memorial Day 2015 at MGV and MBP but later when I tested Thanksgiving 2014 they came in much stronger so it was replaced. It is too early to test Thanksgiving 2015 but clearly Thanksgiving trumps Memorial Day. Who knows, it could be different tomorrow but it is fun to play around with.

Saintsfanfl said:

Initially I used Memorial Day 2015 at MGV and MBP but later when I tested Thanksgiving 2014 they came in much stronger so it was replaced. It is too early to test Thanksgiving 2015 but clearly Thanksgiving trumps Memorial Day. Who knows, it could be different tomorrow but it is fun to play around with.

Click to expand...

I find it strange that Thanksgiving is a lot better than Memorial week. The TDI for Orlando has May weeks at at least 125 TDI where Thanksgiving is much lower. The Palm Beaches seem about equal. Realize that II doesn't drop inventory obtained from Cruise Exchange in to exchange inventory. So this may not be a perfect analysts since II rents this inventory out for cash. Perhaps their models for getaway pricing aren't tied to exchange demand 100%?

dioxide45 said:

I find it strange that Thanksgiving is a lot better than Memorial week. The TDI for Orlando has May weeks at at least 125 TDI where Thanksgiving is much lower. The Palm Beaches seem about equal. Realize that II doesn't drop inventory obtained from Cruise Exchange in to exchange inventory. So this may not be a perfect analysts since II rents this inventory out for cash. Perhaps their models for getaway pricing aren't tied to exchange demand 100%?

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I can't be certain but so far from what I have seen the cruise values are reflective of trading power. I have found TDI to be irrelevant. I have a week 12 and a week 27 at a resort in St Augustine. The week 27 has much better TDI but the trading value for week 12 is good while week 27 is pretty bad when viewing instant inventory. The cruise values agree that week 12 is more valuable so apparently TDI is not related to trading power in some cases.