West Gate Q&A (Unofficial)

WvaG · Oct 1, 2013

Hello,

I am work at West Gate in Williamsburg, VA as a salesperson and have seen many reviews that were extremely negative. Instead of brushing it off as the normal "talk", I've decided to approach you all and address your questions, frustrations, etc. I leave my work at the resort, so I'm not here to persuade you into buying anything. I hope I can answer all of your questions, please allow 12-24 hours based on time and day.

Thanks,
WvaG

csxjohn · Oct 1, 2013

I'll start.

"I have ethics I follow that set myself apart from the others."

If you have these ethics how can you possibly sell a product for thousands that can be had for free in other places such as eBay and TUG?

And before you tell me that by buying from you there are benefits that those buying resale don't get, why in world should someone buy a unit retail when, if they try to sell it the next day, those benefits don't go with that unit?

Just curious, have you ever told a prospective mark that they could turn around and sell their unit for a profit? I ask this because it's a common sales pitch in the TS industry and we all know it's a big lie.

WvaG · Oct 1, 2013

I'll start.

"I have ethics I follow that set myself apart from the others."

If you have these ethics how can you possibly sell a product for thousands that can be had for free in other places such as eBay and TUG?
Once out of training and I saw the prices, I asked myself how the hell was I supposed to ask someone for this amount of money! It was clear that nobody in their right mind would pay for it and I decided from then on, my job was to create awareness of the money they could spend on ebay or whatever it is they buy their timeshare so they could eventually own something whether with west gate or anywhere else. One thing with buying products from resale places like goodbuytimeshare (dot) com, not only can you find some good prices but you'll actually end up paying the maintenance fees owed by the previous owners from all the years they owned it.

And before you tell me that by buying from you there are benefits that those buying resale don't get, why in world should someone buy a unit retail when, if they try to sell it the next day, those benefits don't go with that unit?
To be quite honest, no one in their right mind will pay retail for something we all know we can get for cheap, unless you actually like throwing your money away. West Gate offers great deals for the first time incentives, getaways starting at $49 and an owner referral program that you actually see the money.

Just curious, have you ever told a prospective mark that they could turn around and sell their unit for a profit? I ask this because it's a common sales pitch in the TS industry and we all know it's a big lie.
Totally not. The worst case scenario is you break even. Because if you decide to sell your timeshare instead of renting it (on redweek*com, allseason*com, vrbo*com), if you advertise it for too low then West Gate will buy it back from you at the same price you paid for it and mark it up.

tschwa2 · Oct 2, 2013

I think it is kind of funny that you believe what you post. You really don't know how Westgate and timeshares work. There isn't an exit strategy especially if you are convinced of the "value" of an off season week. ROFR doesn't help the owners one bit.

Just curious, have you ever told a prospective mark that they could turn around and sell their unit for a profit? I ask this because it's a common sales pitch in the TS industry and we all know it's a big lie.
Totally not. The worst case scenario is you break even. Because if you decide to sell your timeshare instead of renting it (on redweek*com, allseason*com, vrbo*com), if you advertise it for too low then West Gate will buy it back from you at the same price you paid for it and mark it up.

Let's say I get talked into buying a (really) off season week in Williamsburg for $6000-$9000 (I've never been to a westgate presentation so I am just ball parking the figures). I think the incentives make it worth it and I can always exchange for a different week even if I don't want to go to Williamsburg in January. 3 months later I realize I can rent a week, without owning a timeshare anywhere for 1/3-2/3's of my MF's. So obviously I can't even break even trying to rent my week. I have very little trading power and have to pay an upgrade fee (on top of my MF) to exchange internally with Westgate or a higher exchange fee and really can't find anything like I thought I would be able to get through II. At this point I have already put a deposit down and started making monthly payments. I contact Westgate to see if I can get out of it. "No, you signed a contract. Nor can you transfer it to anyone else until it is completely paid for" So at this point I take a mini home equity to pay off the note. And I try to advertise it for sale. I pay a couple of hundred to advertise it multiple places for $1000 less than I paid. No takers. I reduce to half of what I paid. No takers. I contact Westgate. Likely with an off season week they won't touch it with a ten foot pool and will again remind me that I signed a contract "in perpetuity." At this point if I had bought a prime week or a fairly good shoulder week and still couldn't find a buyer Westgate may take the deed back if I paid them another $600-$1000 plus the next years MF's. At no point would Westgate ever exercise ROFR on an off season week. Again if I had bought a prime week for $20,000-$30,000 completely paid it off and then was lucky enough to find a buyer for $5,000 I still doubt they would exercise ROFR. If I just needed to unload a fully paid prime week for as fast as possible and found someone willing to take it for $1000 or less the chance of ROFR would be fairly decent but the original buyer is in no way near "breaking even" which you claimed would be the worst case scenario. I don't even think there is a chance in h**l that a "best case scenario" would have a buyer "breaking even" So back to my off season week. No I've paid my $9000 to westgate. Chances are even if I had to pay someone $1000 to take the deed and take over the MF's, just as Westgate wouldn't have just allowed me to deed back to them paying them that amount of money, now that I've paid to advertise and paid someone to take the deed they still aren't interested in re-acquiring the off season deed with ROFR. As long as Westgate has inventory of its own to sell, it really isn't interested in taking back a deed and being responsible for the MF's unless it knows it can sell that week again quickly.

Westgate doesn't care how low I advertise a unit for. They don't become interested in it at all until I find a buyer at whatever price I can. If it is too low and they think they can sell it fast they will take it. Even if they don't want it they can use the threat and make the transfer process difficult blaming it on the ROFR but in reality just making it difficult to sell at any price. They can than point out how difficult it is to buy and transfer a resale unit "because of ROFR" when in reality, they just want to make it difficult to discourage anyone from buying resale because it takes a sale away from them.

WvaG · Oct 2, 2013

tschwa2 said:
I think it is kind of funny that you believe what you post. You really don't know how Westgate and timeshares work. There isn't an exit strategy especially if you are convinced of the "value" of an off season week. ROFR doesn't help the owners one bit.

Let's say I get talked into buying a (really) off season week in Williamsburg for $6000-$9000 (I've never been to a westgate presentation so I am just ball parking the figures).
Everything is a Floating Week.
I think the incentives make it worth it and I can always exchange for a different week even if I don't want to go to Williamsburg in January.

3 months later I realize I can rent a week, without owning a timeshare anywhere for 1/3-2/3's of my MF's.
My job is awareness for you to stop renting and start owning.

So obviously I can't even break even trying to rent my week. I have very little trading power and have to pay an upgrade fee (on top of my MF) to exchange internally with Westgate or a higher exchange fee and really can't find anything like I thought I would be able to get through II.
My resort is a premiere resort with Interval and we're in the chairman's club. It basically works like this: if I wrote you $10 per year in business and WG wrote you $100, whose phone call are you going to answer first?

At this point I have already put a deposit down and started making monthly payments. I contact Westgate to see if I can get out of it. "No, you signed a contract. Nor can you transfer it to anyone else until it is completely paid for" So at this point I take a mini home equity to pay off the note. And I try to advertise it for sale. I pay a couple of hundred to advertise it multiple places for $1000 less than I paid.

This is a common mistake with owners.
- why sell when you can rent it (your WG concierge can do it for you at no extra cost and you get 100% of the rent).
- those people who charge you to sell it take your deed and basically use them for getaways with II/RCI. No takers. I reduce to half of what I paid. No takers. I contact Westgate. Likely with an off season week they won't touch it with a ten foot pool and will again remind me that I signed a contract "in perpetuity." At this point if I had bought a prime week or a fairly good shoulder week and still couldn't find a buyer Westgate may take the deed back if I paid them another $600-$1000 plus the next years MF's. At no point would Westgate ever exercise ROFR on an off season week. Again if I had bought a prime week for $20,000-$30,000 completely paid it off and then was lucky enough to find a buyer for $5,000 I still doubt they would exercise ROFR. If I just needed to unload a fully paid prime week for as fast as possible and found someone willing to take it for $1000 or less the chance of ROFR would be fairly decent but the original buyer is in no way near "breaking even" which you claimed would be the worst case scenario. I don't even think there is a chance in h**l that a "best case scenario" would have a buyer "breaking even" So back to my off season week. No I've paid my $9000 to westgate. Chances are even if I had to pay someone $1000 to take the deed and take over the MF's, just as Westgate wouldn't have just allowed me to deed back to them paying them that amount of money, now that I've paid to advertise and paid someone to take the deed they still aren't interested in re-acquiring the off season deed with ROFR.
Long post but basically this resort has floating weeks. The Maintenance fees are paid by 5% (we have lots of programs) less than our owners and are actually HOA dues and taxes. You get a list of all the things your dues are spent on and they don't go up unless you vote for them.
As long as Westgate has inventory of its own to sell, it really isn't interested in taking back a deed and being responsible for the MF's unless it knows it can sell that week again quickly.
Right now, we currently have 20 units left, we are looking for owners to upgrade so we can finish selling them and begin expanding!
Westgate doesn't care how low I advertise a unit for. They don't become interested in it at all until I find a buyer at whatever price I can. If it is too low and they think they can sell it fast they will take it. Even if they don't want it they can use the threat and make the transfer process difficult blaming it on the ROFR but in reality just making it difficult to sell at any price. They can than point out how difficult it is to buy and transfer a resale unit "because of ROFR" when in reality, they just want to make it difficult to discourage anyone from buying resale because it takes a sale away from them.
As expressed earlier, if you put it up for less than what you paid for it, call your concierge and they'll initiate the buyback.

tschwa2 · Oct 2, 2013

Right now, we currently have 20 units left, we are looking for owners to upgrade so we can finish selling them and begin expanding!

You guys are in luck. There are 2 biennial odd weeks on ebay right now that haven't sold for $5 including all closing cost and 2013 usage and a $100 or $200 prepaid Visa that haven't sold after having been listed at several times over the last 2 months. None of the Williamsburg counties have deeds online and I don't live close so I can't verify anything you have said. I doubt you have seen the deeds either.

I can look online at Horry County for the myrtle Beach and although the consideration when Westgate sells is in the $13,000-$40,000 range in general the consideration when Westgate takes back (and not due to an upgrade when the owner puts out even more money) is usually no consideration listed or in a few cases less than $1000. hmmm

Does Westgate put any buyback guarantees in their contract, maybe even at 40 or 50%? Of course not, and if it is not in the contract it isn't so regardless of how many times the salesperson said it is so.

This is a common mistake with owners.
- why sell when you can rent it (your WG concierge can do it for you at no extra cost and you get 100% of the rent).

You (my concierge) could try to rent out my floating week 1-9 but you would never be able to cover my MF's. Heck you could even try to rent my week 26 but I doubt you would get enough to cover my MF's. And now that you have your sale you, like every other concierge will not take my calls and despite your promises are no where to be found because you make your money selling not renting out units (competing with Westgate) to which you make $0 because you are giving back 100% to the owner.

and look by the way I can stay in a 2 br at Westgate Williamsburg in May through II getaway week:
May 02 2014 - May 09 2014
2 6 6 $397.00 $372.00 $347.00
I wonder how much my concierge could get for my week which I pay $700 or so in MF's.

- those people who charge you to sell it take your deed and basically use them for getaways with II/RCI.

(cheap getaways like to your resort?)

No some of those people are the people trying to sell it on ebay for $5 and after several months when they can not they deed it to a viking ship llc and let it die a slow death until Westgate can unravel the messy deed with no real owner and raise MF's to the other owners to cover the recovery expenses and non payment of MF's issues.

Your resort may be listed as a premier resort with II, because westgate does deposit a lot of unit and makes II a fair amount of money. There are a lot of nice resorts that are gold crown and premier in Williamsburg and your resort is very close to the bottom of the list from best to worst. I accepted a diamond Greensprings 4th of July week last year because I had a week that was going to expire, but I wouldn't even want to pay and exchange fee on an AC to stay during peak season in Williamsburg at the Westgate resort. Out of about 12 Williamsburg resorts, just from driving past the place, the reviews, and the II descriptions I would rate it in the bottom 4 or 5.

As expressed earlier, if you put it up for less than what you paid for it, call your concierge and they'll initiate the buyback.

You(the concierge) don't have any authority to initiate a buyback except to maybe start a file that goes into the circular file that the real people with authority to initiate a buyback would place it in.

...and by the way, I don't think you are lying. You seem to believe what you say but that doesn't make it true.

csxjohn · Oct 2, 2013

Post 55 in this tread shows that Westgate will not buy back units and in fact charges you to give it back if they decide they want it back.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1536239&highlight=westgate#post1536239

timeos2 · Oct 2, 2013

Well at least the answers posted showed it is a true sales weasel and not some fake .

Read those answers carefully - you are getting the rare insight of a well trained sales weasel that believes buying retail actually makes sense! And that Wastegate would actually do something to help you sell or rent! It's priceless!

Hope that isn't the end of the posts as so far it's been interesting.

simpsontruckdriver · Oct 2, 2013

Here's another thing no one has talked about yet... resale. From what we hear, if you get a Westgate Lakes (Orlando) Fixed Week (for example), but you want to go to Williamsburg, you must pay HUNDREDS, while direct (resort-purchased) do not have to pay that fee, how much of that is correct? Other resort companies don't gouge their owners that much.

TS

Passepartout · Oct 2, 2013

I'll let you guys sort out what he's saying. I can't follow the multi-colors and figure out who's saying what.

So far the replies and answers look like rebuttals without substance from a trained sales weasel spouting unsubstantiated drivel.

My favorite so far it that West Gate watches the prices on eBay and if they are too low, they 'snap them up, mark them up and sell them themselves'. Our experience is that even if you offer a week to them Free- Gratis- Por Nada, they won't take it and force the owner to resort to default, bankruptcy, or a 'Viking Ship' PCC operation.

His answers just don't ring true.

Jim

timeos2 · Oct 2, 2013

Passepartout said:
His answers just don't ring true.

Jim

There is a reason for that. They aren't. He may believe what he says but the facts are totally different. Makes for interesting reading though if only to see what BS they are shoveling out now.

WvaG · Oct 2, 2013

alright, alot of stuff to go over. Yes, I am new at this, been on the sales floor since August. Everything I'm saying is what is being told on the tables by the managers.

tschwa2 said:
Does Westgate put any buyback guarantees in their contract, maybe even at 40 or 50%? Of course not, and if it is not in the contract it isn't so regardless of how many times the salesperson said it is so.

You (my concierge) could try to rent out my floating week 1-9 but you would never be able to cover my MF's. Heck you could even try to rent my week 26 but I doubt you would get enough to cover my MF's. And now that you have your sale you, like every other concierge will not take my calls and despite your promises are no where to be found because you make your money selling not renting out units (competing with Westgate) to which you make $0 because you are giving back 100% to the owner.

It's actually in my contract to perform these for my owners. If I am lucky enough to have a break, it's usually grabbing a yogurt and calling my owners back.

and look by the way I can stay in a 2 br at Westgate Williamsburg in May through II getaway week:
May 02 2014 - May 09 2014
2 6 6 $397.00 $372.00 $347.00
I wonder how much my concierge could get for my week which I pay $700 or so in MF's.

(cheap getaways like to your resort?)

No some of those people are the people trying to sell it on ebay for $5 and after several months when they can not they deed it to a viking ship llc and let it die a slow death until Westgate can unravel the messy deed with no real owner and raise MF's to the other owners to cover the recovery expenses and non payment of MF's issues.

Negative Ghost Rider. Our owners are part of a homeowners association, they get a list of everything their money is spent on and it doesn't go up unless they see a valid justification. In fact, our wifi isn't free because our owners decided not to pay the extra $5 per year.

Your resort may be listed as a premier resort with II, because westgate does deposit a lot of unit and makes II a fair amount of money. There are a lot of nice resorts that are gold crown and premier in Williamsburg and your resort is very close to the bottom of the list from best to worst. I accepted a diamond Greensprings 4th of July week last year because I had a week that was going to expire, but I wouldn't even want to pay and exchange fee on an AC to stay during peak season in Williamsburg at the Westgate resort. Out of about 12 Williamsburg resorts, just from driving past the place, the reviews, and the II descriptions I would rate it in the bottom 4 or 5.

Most of my rebuttals come from this exact statement. I can't really argue because our buildings were the first hotels built in Williamsburg. One of the reasons we are expanding is because these units are converted hotel rooms. Not exactly what I would call a resort, but it is nicer than the Super 8 across the street.

You(the concierge) don't have any authority to initiate a buyback except to maybe start a file that goes into the circular file that the real people with authority to initiate a buyback would place it in.

...and by the way, I don't think you are lying. You seem to believe what you say but that doesn't make it true.

Not sure how to answer the last statement because I haven't had anything of this nature. The process is: once an owner calls me to sell it, I schedule a conference call with my manager to handle any issues and if we can't solve those issues then my manager takes care of them from there.

csxjohn said:
Post 55 in this tread shows that Westgate will not buy back units and in fact charges you to give it back if they decide they want it back.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1536239&highlight=westgate#post1536239

Hmm, that is an issue to me. Did the owner go through his/her concierge or call the 1800 number?

timeos2 said:
Well at least the answers posted showed it is a true sales weasel and not some fake .

Read those answers carefully - you are getting the rare insight of a well trained sales weasel that believes buying retail actually makes sense! And that Wastegate would actually do something to help you sell or rent! It's priceless!

Hope that isn't the end of the posts as so far it's been interesting.

It's in my contract to do these things for owners and I don't believe in buying retail. Who in their right mind would pay $700 per month for a 2 bedroom L/O.
Can we keep the low balling to a minimum?

simpsontruckdriver said:
Here's another thing no one has talked about yet... resale. From what we hear, if you get a Westgate Lakes (Orlando) Fixed Week (for example), but you want to go to Williamsburg, you must pay HUNDREDS, while direct (resort-purchased) do not have to pay that fee, how much of that is correct? Other resort companies don't gouge their owners that much.

Umm...I don't know anything about the other resorts but if you don't want to pay II dues we have direct exchanges the cost $150 to stay in the other west gates.

TS

Passepartout said:
I'll let you guys sort out what he's saying. I can't follow the multi-colors and figure out who's saying what.

So far the replies and answers look like rebuttals without substance from a trained sales weasel spouting unsubstantiated drivel.

My favorite so far it that West Gate watches the prices on eBay and if they are too low, they 'snap them up, mark them up and sell them themselves'. Our experience is that even if you offer a week to them Free- Gratis- Por Nada, they won't take it and force the owner to resort to default, bankruptcy, or a 'Viking Ship' PCC operation.

His answers just don't ring true.

Jim

Jim, nobody at west gate cares about the owners or what they do with their units. After all, you can use/loan/rent/sell/will it; but if you don't notify your concierge, then the proper SOP will not be initiated. For some reason, many people have this notion of timeshare being a good investment to gain money out of it; if you read dave ramsey or have any economic common sense then you or anyone else would know that this is simply untrue.

timeos2 said:
There is a reason for that. They aren't. He may believe what he says but the facts are totally different. Makes for interesting reading though if only to see what BS they are shoveling out now.

Maybe or Maybe Not. :shrug:

I'm here to obtain a general consensus from past/current owners and hopefully correct these problems.

snickers104 · Oct 2, 2013

Buyers remorse

Wow...after reading all of this I wish I would have bought a WestGate Property :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

WvaG · Oct 2, 2013

not

tschwa2 · Oct 2, 2013

Sorry about my rambling posts last night. I was up with a sick child and was getting very little sleep.

Westgate like many developer controlled systems really don't have independent HOA's. While still in sales the developer stacks the board with yes people, and basically keeps the strangle hold on the HOA even after the resort is sold out. In fact Westgate is one of the most notorious in this regard. David S. has made no bones that he feels that he is the owner of all the resorts with the Westgate name despite having sold the deeds and he feels he has the right to do whatever he wants regardless of what may or may not be in any CC&R's written to protect they buyers/owners.

Any opinions on this situation. This seems pretty typical of his style. He owed a bunch of sales people a bunch of money. It was during a time when he was a little strapped for cash. He basically said, screw them, if they want there money they will have to sue me and I have better lawyers than they do. The ex employees did sue and had to pay a lot of legal fees to get what they were owed. After awhile Siegel offers to settle for less than he owed. The ex-employees agree because the legal battle is expensive. Siegel makes two of 12 payments and then decides he would rather not pay anymore because he himself is so financially stapped and if the ex-employees don't like it they would have to take him back to court. The do. After a few more months, he decides to settle again but for even less this time.

Siegel doesn't even pretend that he has to play by the same ethical rules that apply to everyone else. Some of the Westgate properties are pretty nice and occasionally I have been tempted by some that are being given away or sold for under $500 despite your protest that it never happens but then I have to remind myself how sleazy Westgate is and to avoid it like the lowest of the low that it is.

timeos2 · Oct 2, 2013

The story above is all too typical of the King David / Wastegate mentality. On a more timeshare owner level all you have to do is go back to the mid-90's. We buy a week and are told it is great, easy to trade, etc etc. Over the years the rules change - but always suddenly to the benefit of Wastegate not us as the paying owners. It starts out with the ability to internally trade. We were told - and it worked for years - that if we needed to change we just let them know & they could handle it. There was a small fee - I believe it started at $39 and went to $69 over the years - and we could get any week we wanted for ours. Then suddenly around 2007 the whole thing got turned upside down and every week had a previously non-existent "use value". Low & behold virtually every week wasn't worth the week you wanted was & you owed and upgrade fee of $300-$599 PLUS the newly imposed exchange fee of $149 -$299. This after owners were told repeatedly there were no seasons to the time & all weeks were equal (and they were treated that way for over a decade). Ony when the King needed cash did the rules unilaterally change.

Of course there is the imposing of ROFR on weeks that don't have it. They know it, they know they can't create it retroactively yet they continue to tell owners they have the right. And packing the Board. They claim they "never had interest from owners" to be on the Board (although I asked a number of times how to run) and put on a show to supposedly hold an open meeting each year but in fact every Board member is a flunky for the King & only votes his way. Promised water parks that never got built, funds from one Association illegally used for others, the list goes on and on.

The only way Wastegate could ever remotely be a good value again for owners is for the King & his corrupt family to be completely banned & for the true owners to elect a true Board. As it stands Wastegate is THE worst timeshare organization period. There are only two types of Wastegate owners. Those that are happy they no longer own and those that haven't yet realized how shafted they are and haven't yet tried to get out. There is no such thing as a happy long term Wastegate owner.

WvaG · Oct 2, 2013

tschwa2 said:
Sorry about my rambling posts last night. I was up with a sick child and was getting very little sleep.

Westgate like many developer controlled systems really don't have independent HOA's. While still in sales the developer stacks the board with yes people, and basically keeps the strangle hold on the HOA even after the resort is sold out. In fact Westgate is one of the most notorious in this regard. David S. has made no bones that he feels that he is the owner of all the resorts with the Westgate name despite having sold the deeds and he feels he has the right to do whatever he wants regardless of what may or may not be in any CC&R's written to protect they buyers/owners.

Any opinions on this situation. This seems pretty typical of his style. He owed a bunch of sales people a bunch of money. It was during a time when he was a little strapped for cash. He basically said, screw them, if they want there money they will have to sue me and I have better lawyers than they do. The ex employees did sue and had to pay a lot of legal fees to get what they were owed. After awhile Siegel offers to settle for less than he owed. The ex-employees agree because the legal battle is expensive. Siegel makes two of 12 payments and then decides he would rather not pay anymore because he himself is so financially stapped and if the ex-employees don't like it they would have to take him back to court. The do. After a few more months, he decides to settle again but for even less this time.

Siegel doesn't even pretend that he has to play by the same ethical rules that apply to everyone else. Some of the Westgate properties are pretty nice and occasionally I have been tempted by some that are being given away or sold for under $500 despite your protest that it never happens but then I have to remind myself how sleazy Westgate is and to avoid it like the lowest of the low that it is.

nobody pays list price. period. I am a victim of david siegel's scams and it is called a draw. see, we dont get paid at west gate, we get advances that we pay back after we get commission. I didn't get paid last check because of me owing them money. So, I'm filing one of these bad boys mahself.

timeos2 said:
The story above is all too typical of the King David / Wastegate mentality. On a more timeshare owner level all you have to do is go back to the mid-90's. We buy a week and are told it is great, easy to trade, etc etc. Over the years the rules change - but always suddenly to the benefit of Wastegate not us as the paying owners. It starts out with the ability to internally trade. We were told - and it worked for years - that if we needed to change we just let them know & they could handle it. There was a small fee - I believe it started at $39 and went to $69 over the years - and we could get any week we wanted for ours. Then suddenly around 2007 the whole thing got turned upside down and every week had a previously non-existent "use value". Low & behold virtually every week wasn't worth the week you wanted was & you owed and upgrade fee of $300-$599 PLUS the newly imposed exchange fee of $149 -$299. This after owners were told repeatedly there were no seasons to the time & all weeks were equal (and they were treated that way for over a decade). Ony when the King needed cash did the rules unilaterally change.

Of course there is the imposing of ROFR on weeks that don't have it. They know it, they know they can't create it retroactively yet they continue to tell owners they have the right. And packing the Board. They claim they "never had interest from owners" to be on the Board (although I asked a number of times how to run) and put on a show to supposedly hold an open meeting each year but in fact every Board member is a flunky for the King & only votes his way. Promised water parks that never got built, funds from one Association illegally used for others, the list goes on and on.

The only way Wastegate could ever remotely be a good value again for owners is for the King & his corrupt family to be completely banned & for the true owners to elect a true Board. As it stands Wastegate is THE worst timeshare organization period. There are only two types of Wastegate owners. Those that are happy they no longer own and those that haven't yet realized how shafted they are and haven't yet tried to get out. There is no such thing as a happy long term Wastegate owner.

that is horrible and I hate that it is true. Gatlingburg has a large waterpark indoors and is 99% sold out. I do wonder why anyone would buy a timeshare in the first place, I don't vacation so it's above me.

pacodemountainside · Oct 2, 2013

Have you done a search on David Siegel here and watched movie "Queen of Versailles"?

I have been to sales pitches in Vegas, Orlando and Branson. At all of them about every 30 minutes a sales manager leaps in air and proclaims sales reps take unit 1234 off your inventory. I ask sales rep if he is doing . He gets a funny look on face and says the inventory is in computer in sales manager's office. 10-15 minutes later I stroll past table where alleged sale took place and just a couple sales people bullshitting, no one buying anything.

Why do they hide rescission information on CD rather than handing paper to you?

csxjohn · Oct 2, 2013

This is turning into an interesting thread. We have a person who is new at selling Westgate timeshares and he's getting screwed by the people he sells for.

What kind of company do you have to pay them to work for? I've heard of paying for your own training period but this is crazy.

siesta · Oct 3, 2013

To the OP, let me give you some advice.

First, forget everything you've been told/taught, its all lies to make you feel that your job isnt as awful and immoral as it truly is. Also, their theory is, if you genuinely beleved those lies, you'd be better at selling those lies.

Second, quit your job, its not worth the high pressure and inconsistent pay. (Unless you realize you are selling lies, and are good at selling those lies, and dont care that youre selling lies.)

Third, get a new job, buy a resale timeshare, and hang with us, you might not vacation, but we'll teach you how. Why? Because vacations are good for your health, google it.

Fasttr · Oct 3, 2013

WvaG said:
I am work at West Gate in Williamsburg, VA

Wouldn't a Westgate employee know that Westgate is one word....not two? :doh:

AwayWeGo · Oct 3, 2013

Spacious Luxury Vacation Accommodations At Motel 6 & Super 8 Rates.

WvaG said:
I do wonder why anyone would buy a timeshare in the first place

For all the reasons the professional timeshare sellers say -- more space, more luxury, more convenience, more value -- except never-never-never at full freight.

Never.

Nothing that the timeshare companies sell at full freight is worth the money.

Resale timeshares -- from eBay or direct from prior owners, mox nix -- are the same products as the ones the timeshare companies sell as "new" for many thousands of dollars more. Except that there is no such thing as a new timeshare.

By the time the new owner shows up & checks in -- no matter how much money that new owner paid -- other people will have already been staying right there previously in that very same unit. Not only is that not new, that is used-used-used any way you shake it.

Only people who go for that are the ones stampeded by the high-pressure razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo into signing a purchase agreement without understanding the realities of timeshare values & the obligations of timeshare ownership. And sorry to say the basic biz. plan of the timeshare companies is to fast-talk exactly those unknowledgeable people into doing precisely that. It's taking advantage, plain & simple.

Now we discover that at least 1 of the full-freight timeshare companies proceeds by pulling the wool over the eyes of its own timeshare sellers as well. Who'd a-thunk ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.

Saintsfanfl · Oct 3, 2013

WvaG said:
nobody pays list price. period. I am a victim of david siegel's scams and it is called a draw. see, we dont get paid at west gate, we get advances that we pay back after we get commission. I didn't get paid last check because of me owing them money. So, I'm filing one of these bad boys mahself.

that is horrible and I hate that it is true. Gatlingburg has a large waterpark indoors and is 99% sold out. I do wonder why anyone would buy a timeshare in the first place, I don't vacation so it's above me.

A draw is how all 100% commission based jobs work. It wouldn't matter where you went. This concept doesn't have anything to do with Siegel.

Gatlinburg might be 99% sold out but you didn't mention the hundreds that want out but have no ethical recourse. I was on the verge of buying a 4BR quad lockoff on eBay for next to nothing until I found out I would only be able to reserve at less than 60 days. No thanks.

This thread seems to be Tuggers providing the answers, but that is to be expected.

gregweber14 · Oct 3, 2013

Do the math

Of course there not worth the full price they charge. They are not even worth $0 when you consider the maintenance fees. Just do the math. 52 weeks times lets say $150000 = $700,000. Can you buy as nice of an apartment or condo in the same area and condition for much much less - I'd say yes. Then add $800 MF for 20 years x 52 weeks = $832,000. So the total money spent to buy and maintain one unit for 20 years is $1.5 million. I never bought one of these turkeys at even 10% of the original price. I bought 2 for around a $1000 each and still consider them a bad investment.

gregweber14 · Oct 3, 2013

Do the math

Opps. In my last post, I wrote $150000 but meant $15000 to buy the timeshare. The math was done at the correct amount. :cheer:

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