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Old July 8, 2013, 10:49 PM   #1
Momto6kiddos
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Wyndham pathway program

Does anyone know if the wyndham pathways program is legit? We signed in and bought more points today just so we can buy our way out of the system. I am finding that a lot of what I was told was wrong information. I am ready to recind today's decision. I am stuck in a timeshare nightmare.
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Old July 8, 2013, 11:18 PM   #2
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We have been owners for 13 years. We have an investment of $76,992.00. We still owe $20,000. We want OUT. Wyndham told us today about a "pathways" program they offer now with a new purchase. We bought the new purchase for an additional $21,000. After 30 days pathways will pay us 20% of our total investment which is $98,033.00 20% is $19,600. So we signed today for a $41,000 loan so we can pretend to pay it off and get $19,000. This will leave us $21,000.00 in the hole but timehre free. Have you heard of such a thing? I think I should rescind the offer today. I am sick over this.
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Old July 8, 2013, 11:33 PM   #3
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Clearly you shouldn't have done this otherwise you wouldn't be sick over it.
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Old July 9, 2013, 12:08 AM   #4
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So you started the day owing Wyndham $20000 and finished owing $41000. And in 30 days you get a check for $19000 to apply to the loan

And you get to pretend to pay back the loan?

First all I'm sure you will have to pay back the loan and second I need to learn more about this program.

If its for real, it does make some sense. You owe what you owed before, but no more maintenance fees. The question is: is it for real?
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Old July 9, 2013, 12:13 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Momto6kiddos View Post
We have been owners for 13 years. We have an investment of $76,992.00. We still owe $20,000. We want OUT. Wyndham told us today about a "pathways" program they offer now with a new purchase. We bought the new purchase for an additional $21,000. After 30 days pathways will pay us 20% of our total investment which is $98,033.00 20% is $19,600. So we signed today for a $41,000 loan so we can pretend to pay it off and get $19,000. This will leave us $21,000.00 in the hole but timehre free. Have you heard of such a thing? I think I should rescind the offer today. I am sick over this.
Wyndham has an F rating from the BBB mostly due to the lies told by their sales force.

Of course you should rescind immediately. You got caught up in the sales pitch but now realize it makes no sense. Once the rescission period is gone, they have you on the hook for an additional $20K. Look at ebay completed sales to see what your purchase is worth and you will really be sick. Get out now on the new purchase. Don't talk to any more sales people.

Then read up on what to do with your timeshare. Given the $10K you owe, you will find it difficult, if not impossible, to sell. Wyndham might take the deed back. Others will give you better advise on that end of things. But for now RESCIND!!!

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Old July 9, 2013, 12:42 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momto6kiddos View Post
We have been owners for 13 years. We have an investment of $76,992.00. We still owe $20,000. We want OUT. Wyndham told us today about a "pathways" program they offer now with a new purchase. We bought the new purchase for an additional $21,000. After 30 days pathways will pay us 20% of our total investment which is $98,033.00 20% is $19,600. So we signed today for a $41,000 loan so we can pretend to pay it off and get $19,000. This will leave us $21,000.00 in the hole but timehre free. Have you heard of such a thing? I think I should rescind the offer today. I am sick over this.
Wow, signing a loan for $41,000 would make me sick to my stomach too. Honestly, what you're saying doesn't make sense. And if it doesn't make sense, you should rescind. Don't get yourself further into the debt hole.

I don't know what your credit is like but there might be easier ways to pay off the debt and then subsequently getting rid of the timeshare.

If you don't understand the program you signed up for, then don't do it.
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Old July 9, 2013, 02:00 AM   #7
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So you started the day owing Wyndham $20000 and finished owing $41000. And in 30 days you get a check for $19000 to apply to the loan

And you get to pretend to pay back the loan?

First all I'm sure you will have to pay back the loan and second I need to learn more about this program.

If its for real, it does make some sense. You owe what you owed before, but no more maintenance fees. The question is: is it for real?
In the updates I have done in the last couple of weeks. They have mentioned the Pathway Program. I was told it would become a part of Club Wyndham Access in July. I asked the sales person, if Wyndham wanted to buy back contracts, why didn't they just exercise ROFR on the current CWA contracts. He said that Wyndham felt that ROFR didn't have the desired effect. He said the Pathway program would completely eliminate the secondary (resale) market. I laughed in his face. I said, "you've got to be kidding, since it requires an additional purchase, that would mean that you expect all 900 plus thousand current owners to buy additional contracts in order to take advantage of the pathway program. After all, that would be the only way Wyndham would eliminate the "secondary" market with pathway." He didn't have an answer for that. I tried to get more info out of him but by that time he knew I wasn't going to be buying anything from him. And he was glad to get me off to gifting.
Here is what I believe. I believe the program is real. But I also believe that in order to extend the pathway program to previous developer purchased points, Wyndham would require a new purchase of some specific percentage of the total points purchased from the developer. Like, say, 50 percent. Otherwise, what would prevent someone with 2 million developer points from buying $20,000 in additional point and the giving it all back in 30 days for $70,000.00. I don't buy it. I bet the OP will find out in 30 days that he needed to have bought 231k points for $40,000.00 in order to qualify to get 20 percent of money back for everything. I don't buy it.

My first question for the OP is:
Is it all spelled out in writing on the contract you signed. Does it say "after 30 days if you decide you want to turn everything back in we will pay you $19,600.00." Does,it say something like that.
My advice is rescind. At least until we know more about the Pathway Program. You cannot count on the sales staff to tell the truth. Even if true, I don't think it is a good idea in the OP's case since he/she will end up in more in debt with no timeshare. It doesn't seem like a good idea.



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Old July 9, 2013, 04:56 AM   #8
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I went to a presentation where the pathways program was brought up. The idea was that when you decided to get rid of it, wyndham would give you back 20% of what you paid for it. I specifically asked If this would apply to Resales and as expected, I was told no. I also asked if this specifically applied to developer brought points prior to the pathways program and I was told no. I was told it only applied to developer purchases from the point where the pathways program started, that is new purchases. There may be changes to this I as at smokies when this was rolled out.

They tried to convince me to purchase with the point that using their credit card, I would earn enough points to pay off all my maintenance fees making the purchase to me neutral in that i didnt spend more than i did now. They really didn't want to get into details and acted like they couldn't understand why I didnt understand how their credit card with normal use would pay off the maintence fee. I understood the concept except when pressed and using a monthly maintenance of $300, at 2 points earned per dollar used on the credit card and the payback $60 per 10,000 points, I would have needed 50,000 points to get the maintenance fee of $300 covered. To do this, I would have had to charge $25,000 per month on the card to get 50,000 points. After all this, I was asked if I was an engineer or an accountant as most people apparently didn't delve into the specifics of how to make it work like I did. Needless to say, I left one frustrated salesperson as I made it clear, using his math, that his "so-called" purchase that wouldn't cost me anything (since points earned on the credit card would offset the monthly charges) was not doable unless I spent more money then I earned a month charged to the Wyndham credit card. The devil is in the details with these programs
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Old July 9, 2013, 07:03 AM   #9
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We bought the new purchase for an additional $21,000. After 30 days pathways will pay us 20% of our total investment which is $98,033.00 20% is $19,600.

Spend 21 to get 19.6 I agree wait until you understand all the in an out based on facts and not on a salesperson word. Just my opinion of course.
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Old July 9, 2013, 07:31 AM   #10
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Just thinking... if I have 128k Annual and 128k Biennial Odd (all Resale), what would I have to pay to buy into the Pathways program? I don't think I would, just wondering what the purchase would be. I would rather give them away, just want to know what this program is/will do.

FYI, I am not saying I want to give those contracts away any time soon.

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Old July 9, 2013, 07:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momto6kiddos View Post
We have been owners for 13 years. We have an investment of $76,992.00. We still owe $20,000. We want OUT. Wyndham told us today about a "pathways" program they offer now with a new purchase. We bought the new purchase for an additional $21,000. After 30 days pathways will pay us 20% of our total investment which is $98,033.00 20% is $19,600. So we signed today for a $41,000 loan so we can pretend to pay it off and get $19,000. This will leave us $21,000.00 in the hole but timehre free. Have you heard of such a thing? I think I should rescind the offer today. I am sick over this.
...or you could rescind and take out a mini home equity loan pay off the Wyndham loan. At this point you could give away or sell (for a couple of hundred dollars or a maybe a thousand or so) and still owe $20,000 with no TS and have a better interest rate on your loan. In addition you wouldn't have to worry if Wyndham was just telling you more lies.
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Old July 9, 2013, 08:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momto6kiddos View Post
We have been owners for 13 years. We have an investment of $76,992.00. We still owe $20,000. We want OUT. Wyndham told us today about a "pathways" program they offer now with a new purchase. We bought the new purchase for an additional $21,000. After 30 days pathways will pay us 20% of our total investment which is $98,033.00 20% is $19,600. So we signed today for a $41,000 loan so we can pretend to pay it off and get $19,000. This will leave us $21,000.00 in the hole but timehre free. Have you heard of such a thing? I think I should rescind the offer today. I am sick over this.
...or you could rescind and take out a mini home equity loan pay off the Wyndham loan. At this point you could give away or sell (for a couple of hundred dollars or a maybe a thousand or so) and still owe $20,000 with no TS and have a better interest rate on your loan. In addition you wouldn't have to worry if Wyndham was just telling you more lies.
I would also suggest the OP stop thinking of it as "an investment"...
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Old July 9, 2013, 09:38 AM   #13
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Second thinking of as an investment. It is a liability to pay MF for life.

Wyndham is a marketing driven organization and regularly comes out with better "snares". Think CWA, Presidential Reserve, Out Rigger, Plus Partners, Play Days, etc.

As a general rule buying from Developer is going to end up costing you lots of money.

Rescind and when back home have an "expert" go over all the paperwork and see what you really have. As contract clearly state no verbalization or sales person scrawling will be honored.

If OK Wyndham will be happy to take your money next month!

Truism: Commissioned sales person must sell you something, anything, to pay the rent
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Old July 9, 2013, 09:47 AM   #14
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...or you could rescind and take out a mini home equity loan pay off the Wyndham loan. At this point you could give away or sell (for a couple of hundred dollars or a maybe a thousand or so) and still owe $20,000 with no TS and have a better interest rate on your loan. In addition you wouldn't have to worry if Wyndham was just telling you more lies.
If the OP is going to do anything, this makes the most since. Although it requires them to be credit worthy. And to have a home with some equity in order a good interest rate.

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Old July 9, 2013, 09:58 AM   #15
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Do you have the contract and other documents? What does the paragraph regarding the 20% payment actually say?
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Old July 9, 2013, 10:04 AM   #16
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I went to a presentation where the pathways program was brought up. The idea was that when you decided to get rid of it, wyndham would give you back 20% of what you paid for it. I specifically asked If this would apply to Resales and as expected, I was told no. I also asked if this specifically applied to developer brought points prior to the pathways program and I was told no. I was told it only applied to developer purchases from the point where the pathways program started, that is new purchases. There may be changes to this I as at smokies when this was rolled out.
Shows you, they don't have any more idea of what Pathway is then we do. This makes even more sense, that it will only apply to the new purchase. It will be interesting to to see what the truth is. We will eventually find out the truth. The OP shouldn't believe ANYTHING said by sales. ONLY what is in writing is valid. RESCIND now. Before it is too



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Old July 9, 2013, 01:54 PM   #17
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a big hoax. Someone said only the new purchase of 21000 was available or 4000 max.
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Old July 9, 2013, 02:21 PM   #18
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Just thinking... if I have 128k Annual and 128k Biennial Odd (all Resale), what would I have to pay to buy into the Pathways program? I don't think I would, just wondering what the purchase would be. I would rather give them away, just want to know what this program is/will do.

FYI, I am not saying I want to give those contracts away any time soon.

TS
You cant do it..

There was some talk here a while ago about Wyndham taking the POFR language out of the CWA contracts and replacing it with a dissolution of trust clause. which was going to allow you to "give back or sell back your contract"

It looks like thats whats happening

Also consider that a typical sales pitch has always been the "equity trade" whereby you turned in your existing contract at one resort for a larger one at the new resort. Of course you had to add to the number of points you owned with a new developer purchase to make it happen


so putting 2 and 2 together (and maybe getting 5) heres what I think is happening: The op is exchanging her old contract for a new CWA contract with some new language that provides a "put" feature of some sort. The new contract is bigger than the old one so she owes an additional $21000

At least thats my best guess....What Im not guessing at are the terms of the put feature. but I would bet that it doesnt provide for "pretending" to pay the new loan or specify the terms of the buyback

Im expecting a call from a salesman today, on another matter. Ill see what he says.
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Old July 9, 2013, 05:23 PM   #19
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You cant do it..

There was some talk here a while ago about Wyndham taking the POFR language out of the CWA contracts and replacing it with a dissolution of trust clause. which was going to allow you to "give back or sell back your contract"

It looks like thats whats happening

Also consider that a typical sales pitch has always been the "equity trade" whereby you turned in your existing contract at one resort for a larger one at the new resort. Of course you had to add to the number of points you owned with a new developer purchase to make it happen


so putting 2 and 2 together (and maybe getting 5) heres what I think is happening: The op is exchanging her old contract for a new CWA contract with some new language that provides a "put" feature of some sort. The new contract is bigger than the old one so she owes an additional $21000

At least thats my best guess....What Im not guessing at are the terms of the put feature. but I would bet that it doesnt provide for "pretending" to pay the new loan or specify the terms of the buyback

Im expecting a call from a salesman today, on another matter. Ill see what he says.
The OP said the original mortgage was almost $77,000. I believe that could be over 400k points. The best deal I have ever been offered on an equity trade is 50% additional purchase. She was only making an additional purchase of $21,000. Which might be 105K points. The only way I can see this being rolled into the Pathway Program is with an equity trade. And the OP would, I believe, have had to make a purchase of more like $40,000.00 not $21,000.00 to make it happen.That is why I think that sales was giving them a load of BS. I bet there is nothing in writing. In 30 Days the OP would discover she owes $41,000 instead of $20,000.00 and lots more in MF. Maybe I am wrong, but I doubt it.
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Old July 9, 2013, 11:22 PM   #20
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I rescinded the contract today we signed yesterday. Yeah me! I feel relieved even though I am still stuck with my original 588,000 points. I do still want out. We are vacationing at wyndham in myrtle beach and found it funny the post office located about 3 minutes away new I was sending a rescind letter. The lady said they get at least 4-5 a week at least. I actually mailed it certified and faxed a copy to financial corporate office.

The stipulations for he "pathway" program was new purchase of 105,000 points and prime property which ocean front myrtle beach met the qualification for buy back option. I still don't trust it.

Sad news is I called the attorney general office in my home state and they know nothing about timeshares except they are not good and would never have one. They referred me to lawyer service. I have no problem paying my debt loan off. I just want out of maintenance fees.
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Old July 10, 2013, 07:07 AM   #21
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I have no problem paying my debt loan off. I just want out of maintenance fees.
I'm sorry that the timeshares are not working out for your family.

Once you have the loan paid off, you can then give away or maybe sell your contracts for a small amount and you won't have the maintenance fees.
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Old July 10, 2013, 08:57 AM   #22
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I'm sorry that the timeshares are not working out for your family.

Once you have the loan paid off, you can then give away or maybe sell your contracts for a small amount and you won't have the maintenance fees.
I can certainly see her position. My MF is about $115.00 per month. And I am comfortable with that at the moment. If I need more in some years I will rent. The OP's MF is more like $250.00. If mine were that high I would be feeling the same way.

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Old July 10, 2013, 09:36 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Momto6kiddos View Post
I rescinded the contract today we signed yesterday. Yeah me! I feel relieved even though I am still stuck with my original 588,000 points. I do still want out. We are vacationing at wyndham in myrtle beach and found it funny the post office located about 3 minutes away new I was sending a rescind letter. The lady said they get at least 4-5 a week at least. I actually mailed it certified and faxed a copy to financial corporate office.

The stipulations for he "pathway" program was new purchase of 105,000 points and prime property which ocean front myrtle beach met the qualification for buy back option. I still don't trust it.

Sad news is I called the attorney general office in my home state and they know nothing about timeshares except they are not good and would never have one. They referred me to lawyer service. I have no problem paying my debt loan off. I just want out of maintenance fees.
NEVER, EVER even consider buying more timeshare from Wyndham no matter what convoluted plan they come up with. You have been paying way too much and still owe way too much for a product that, if it were paid off and thus could be resold, is worth maybe $1000-$2000 tops.

Follow up with whatever legal advice you can afford to come to a true settlement with Wyndham that will get that loan paid off/forgiven and end your ownership (stop the fees). DO NOT try to deal with sales to do this as you already know all they will do is sell you more and ge you in ever deeper.

Let an attorney go after this as a straight contract and loan situation to get you out at the least possible expense and hit to your credit. Do it quickly as you want the wheels in motion to stop paying fees and get this cleared up.

Good luck and STAY AWAY FROM ANY SALES PEOPLE FROM WYNDHAM!!!!
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Old July 10, 2013, 09:43 AM   #24
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NEVER, EVER even consider buying more timeshare from Wyndham no matter what convoluted plan they come up with. You have been paying way too much and still owe way too much for a product that, if it were paid off and thus could be resold, is worth maybe $1000-$2000 tops.

Follow up with whatever legal advice you can afford to come to a true settlement with Wyndham that will get that loan paid off/forgiven and end your ownership (stop the fees). DO NOT try to deal with sales to do this as you already know all they will do is sell you more and ge you in ever deeper.

Let an attorney go after this as a straight contract and loan situation to get you out at the least possible expense and hit to your credit. Do it quickly as you want the wheels in motion to stop paying fees and get this cleared up.

Good luck and STAY AWAY FROM ANY SALES PEOPLE FROM WYNDHAM!!!!

John

the op has told us that paying off the loan is not a problem. They are looking for a way to pay off the loan and get rid of the ownership. There is no need for an attorney to negotiate a deedback or deed in lieu or reduced payoff etc etc.

Its just a matter of paying off the debt and selling (or giving away) the ownership. and now that wyndham points are actually selling for something on ebay..that should be easy
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Old July 10, 2013, 10:15 AM   #25
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BBS Reg. Date: Feb 10, 11
Location: Fort Myers Fl
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Resorts: Wyndham, Worldmark, and weeks in New Orleans, San Antonio, New Mexico and Hawaii
I talked to a corporate sales guy yesterday and although I dont think he knows how to help me with my situation (I want to convert a couple of fixed week mistakes I own to points) He did seem to be familiar with Pathways. From what he told me I think Mark and gjw007 have it about right

Wyndham will buy back new CWA purchases and the current price is 20% of what you paid. there is no way to bring resale contracts in and the program does not extend to past any developer purchase either. Although there may be a way to being a past purchase in with a larger new purchase.

He also told me that this is a pilot program only offered at select locations and if it works out it will be rolled out system wide.

So then I decided to have a little fun

I told him I was working on an exit strategy for my large account. I offered to buy a 126000 new points from him if I could do an equity exchange with 2 million resale points I own. I want a new contract for 2,126,000 that I could sell back to the company in 10 years for 10% of the then retail sales price. And I wanted the right to do another deal like this every year for the next 10 years...

I thought it was a good deal for him and Wyndham and me, I was offering to buy over a million points from him over the next 10 years. I would build my account to 20 million points with resale purchases over those same 10 years, then I would unwind my business over the following 10 years giving Wyndham 2 million points a year that they could resell at a 90% markup . By the end of the deal Id be 86 years old, own no Wyndham points and have $400000 in the bank...win/win/win

To his credit he didnt laugh at me, but he said it wasnt possible


Ill be offering the same deal at any owner updates I attend.
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