Quitclaim? [Spammer (Thomas Alley) sending emails to Tuggers w/Ads in the Mktplace]

Larry M · Jan 9, 2013

I've been contacted by an individual on TUG who saw my for-sale classified ad. He's "very interested in this location" and "willing to take over this unit if 'd pay him the equivalent of two years' maintenance." He's "offering to do a quit claim deed since transfer ownership quickly and inexpensively." He assures me that his CPA insisted he "not take on the maintenance liability without 2-3 years of assurance."

Something about this smells bad to me. Is this one of those schemes where he takes the money and lets the unit go into default, then folding his company?

Should TUG be letting such folks prey on their novice owners?

Larry M
(See my for sale ad for a fixed week at Fairfield Bay.)

timeos2 · Jan 9, 2013

I think you have answered your question. They would have cash, potentially a year or 2 of use & you would have a quit claim they could deny accepting. I wouldn't do it.

theo · Jan 9, 2013

My $0.02 worth...

Larry M said:
I've been contacted by an individual on TUG who saw my for-sale classified ad. He's "very interested in this location" and "willing to take over this unit if 'd pay him the equivalent of two years' maintenance." He's "offering to do a quit claim deed since transfer ownership quickly and inexpensively." He assures me that his CPA insisted he "not take on the maintenance liability without 2-3 years of assurance."

Something about this smells bad to me. Is this one of those schemes where he takes the money and lets the unit go into default, then folding his company?

Should TUG be letting such folks prey on their novice owners?

<snipped "advertising" here, whether it was intentional or inadvertent>

This isn't necessarily a "scam" (...although yes, I believe it most likely is just that). However, it might instead just be an opportunistic (...I'll refrain from instead using the word greedy...) individual who not only wants "something for nothing", but also apparently wants some very significant cash thrown in to boot.

You can almost certainly find a much less "demanding" recipient by offering your week in the "Bargain Deals" section if you can't actually sell it. Without even knowing anything about your resort, I suspect that paying closing costs youself, transfer fee (if one is even imposed at all) and maybe, at most, one future year's maintenance fees is as far as you should have to go. For that matter, even the resort itself might take a "deedback" under those terms.

As an aside, IMnsHO, you can't realistically or possibly hold TUG responsible for the integrity and / or sincerity of any contacts or input you might receive in response to posted ads. As on any and every Internet site on Planet Earth with open access, this site cannot just somehow magically divine (or in any other way possibly control) the honesty or sincerity of inquiries you (or anyone else) receive. With all due respect, I believe that every individual always has to perform his / her own due diligence in any potential transaction.

P.S. If you do choose to unwisely "bite" on this (...ahem) "offer", which I most certainly do not recommend, at least cut the recipient entirely out of the deed process. Instead, engage (and pay) a third party closing entity to handle all of the the deed work and escrow of the funds involved (short money, better protects you and very clearly documents "acceptance"). That way, you'll at least be assured that the new "grantee" receives not one red cent until such time as a new and valid, properly prepared deed is legally recorded --- hopefully in the name of a real person who actually wants to own and use your timeshare.

Just my own take and personal opinion --- you asked. Good luck.

ronparise · Jan 9, 2013

The title of your post is "Quit Claim" but thats not the issue. Transferring real estate with a quit claim deed is a perfectly legitimate way to do it. And the risk falls on the buyer not the seller. So I wouldnt worry about the form of the deed

Most real estate deals involve two strangers with nothing more in common than the property. Trust is the big issue. Usually one party is putting up money and he wants to make sure he gets the property free of any liens in return, and the other party is signing a deed and wants to make sure he gets the money in return.

To keep everybody honest usually a third party is hired, whether it be a lawyer, or a licensed and bonded title and escrow company to prepare the deed and hold the money. On the big day (settlement day) both parties meet at the offices of the lawyer or title ans escrow company; the deed is signed and taken to the courthouse to be recorded and the money is distributed..

In your case the real estate is a timeshare and you have to come up with the money and the deed. (I wont comment on the merits of your deal. There are timeshares that are truly worth less than zero. Yours may be one of them, and it may be entirely fair that you have to pay someone to take it. On the other hand you might be able to do better if you try) You want to be sure that the buyer actually takes your property when he takes your money..and the buyer wants to be sure that if he gets the property he also gets the money. So the trust issue is still here.. As Theo says in his post above...hire a third party to both prepare the deed and hold the money to protect both parties. There are title companies that specialize in timeshare transactions...It will cost you but its worth it

Is it possible that your buyer will take your money and the deed, but then default on the maintenance fees?? Sure thats possible, but its not your problem...its the resorts. The resort could avoid that possibility by providing a program to buy back or take back their timeshares but they didnt.....

lcml11 · Jan 9, 2013

Larry M said:
I've been contacted by an individual on TUG who saw my for-sale classified ad. He's "very interested in this location" and "willing to take over this unit if 'd pay him the equivalent of two years' maintenance." He's "offering to do a quit claim deed since transfer ownership quickly and inexpensively." He assures me that his CPA insisted he "not take on the maintenance liability without 2-3 years of assurance."

Something about this smells bad to me. Is this one of those schemes where he takes the money and lets the unit go into default, then folding his company?

Should TUG be letting such folks prey on their novice owners?

Larry M
(See my for sale ad for a fixed week at Fairfield Bay.)

Fairfield Bay has E-Bay listings from time to time. I do not know much about it, but I do not remember any significant bidding going on for it.

It is not an adverizing site responsability, in virtually all cases, to insure honesty in the selling process between the parties. That is where an Attorney or other professional comes in for the transfer process. Even then, that is not a garenteed thing.

You are right, the reference to a accountant is sort of __. This is not an accounting issue.

You did not indicate how bad you needed to sell. If speed is not critical, I would pass and take a shot at a E-Bay or other type of listing if you have not tried that yet.

If your attorney buys off on the deal, you are probably alright. If you can afford the terms of transfer, you can afford the Attorney.

You did not mention how much maintance fees are, that would affect the decision to, thre is a difference between $500 and $1000.

DeniseM · Jan 9, 2013

Larry M said:
Should TUG be letting such folks prey on their novice owners?

We'd be glad to help, but how are we supposed to know who contacted you, unless you tell us? :shrug:

Please click on my blue user name and send me all the information.

JudyS · Jan 9, 2013

Larry M said:
I've been contacted by an individual on TUG who saw my for-sale classified ad. He's "very interested in this location" and "willing to take over this unit if 'd pay him the equivalent of two years' maintenance." He's "offering to do a quit claim deed since transfer ownership quickly and inexpensively." He assures me that his CPA insisted he "not take on the maintenance liability without 2-3 years of assurance."

Something about this smells bad to me. Is this one of those schemes where he takes the money and lets the unit go into default, then folding his company?

Should TUG be letting such folks prey on their novice owners?

Larry M
(See my for sale ad for a fixed week at Fairfield Bay.)

I received a VERY similar offer for a week I have listed in the Bargain Board section of the TUG Marketplace. (And no, I didn't take him up on the offer.)

I just thought the person was trying to "drive a hard bargain" but now I am suspicious. I wonder how many Tuggers this person has contacted?

As for quit claim deeds in general, with a quit claim deed the seller is just selling you their interest in the property without promising ("warranting") that no one else has a claim on the property.With a warranty deed, the buyer can sue for their money back if it turns out that the "seller" didn't have good title to the property and the property is taken away from the buyer by the rightful owner. However, if the property is given away for free, a warranty deed doesn't offer much value over a quit claim deed, because the buyer hasn't paid anything and therefore can't ask for their money back.

TheTimeTraveler · Jan 9, 2013

I would think that it may be easier (and safer) to place your unwanted timeshare on ebay for $1 rather than dealing with shady people who approach you and want you to pay a few years of maintenance fees up front.......

Just my 2 cents :hi:

.

csxjohn · Jan 9, 2013

If it were me I'd offer the use of the unit in 2013 and pay the transfer fees and use someone like Legal Timeshare Transfers to take care of the paper work. (Around another $150.)

If he really wants the unit this would be more than fair for him. You can always up the offer at a later date if you don't get any takers.

I would also put this in the bargain deals section of the forums and not just the classified section. I've also had luck with eBay classifieds and some responses from Craig's List when selling my timeshares.

lcml11 · Jan 9, 2013

DeniseM said:
We'd be glad to help, but how are we supposed to know who contacted you, unless you tell us?

Please click on my blue user name and send me all the information.

Along a similar line, posting the screen name could help. Others may have worked with the person or group involved. Denise apparently has many skills and good advise, but it does not appear she has ESP skills.

Saintsfanfl · Jan 9, 2013

The one comment that jumped out at me is "his CPA insisted". While it is true that a legitimate party could use a BS excuse where the blame is on someone else, the "CPA made me do it" does sound like BS. Why would a CPA care how much a client pays for a hotel room, appartment, or a vacation? Everyone want to buy something cheaper or get a rebate and nobody wants this more than the buyer themselves. The CPA could care less.

DeniseM · Jan 9, 2013

The culprit has been banned - they just registered within the last month, and they were spamming the TUG Marketplace advertisers.

DeniseM · Jan 9, 2013

TheTimeTraveler said:
I would think that it may be easier (and safer) to place your unwanted timeshare on ebay for $1 rather than dealing with shady people who approach you and want you to pay a few years of maintenance fees up front.......

Just my 2 cents

How would posting on eBay prevent unscrupulous people from contacting you? :shrug:

The eBay fees, and requirements to sell real estate, are much less convenient than posting on TUG..

lcml11 · Jan 9, 2013

DeniseM said:
How would posting on eBay prevent unscrupulous people from contacting you?

The eBay fees, and requirements to sell real estate, are much less convenient than posting on TUG..

True. Besides, from what I have seen, apparently TUG has some people that take up the deed for less than what this person wants.

Passepartout · Jan 9, 2013

Thanks Denise.

gnipgnop · Jan 9, 2013

Thank you Denise.......Good ridence to trouble makers. And thanks to the OP for reporting this scumbag. :ignore:

Larry M · Jan 17, 2013

lcml11 said:
You did not indicate how bad you needed to sell. If speed is not critical, I would pass and take a shot at a E-Bay or other type of listing if you have not tried that yet.
...
You did not mention how much maintance fees are, that would affect the decision to, thre is a difference between $500 and $1000.

Actually, I've had it on the Bargain Basement listings on TUG, and the regular listings on TUG and the Exchange listings on TUG, all for over a year. The only nibbles I seem to get are scammers and Exchanges where only half the exchange matches.

Maintenance fees are just under $600 per year.

I suppose eBay might do better. I may try it. I'm trying DAE this year to see how they do.

Larry M

Larry M · Jan 17, 2013

No Luck with Bargain Deals

theo said:
You can almost certainly find a much less "demanding" recipient by offering your week in the "Bargain Deals" section if you can't actually sell it. Without even knowing anything about your resort, I suspect that paying closing costs youself, transfer fee (if one is even imposed at all) and maybe, at most, one future year's maintenance fees is as far as you should have to go. For that matter, even the resort itself might take a "deedback" under those terms.

Actually I've tried to sell it in Bargain Deals for a year now. No nibbles at all.

theo said:
As an aside, IMnsHO, you can't realistically or possibly hold TUG responsible for the integrity and / or sincerity of any contacts or input you might receive in response to posted ads. As on any and every Internet site on Planet Earth with open access, this site cannot just somehow magically divine (or in any other way possibly control) the honesty or sincerity of inquiries you (or anyone else) receive. With all due respect, I believe that every individual always has to perform his / her own due diligence in any potential transaction.

I was pretty confident that it was a scam, in spite of my naive presentation. I find that I get more information that way, including useful information on quitclaims. I read something on TUG BBS last year implying that a quitclaim could bounce back badly to the seller, leaving him without a vote but responsible for maintenance fees. No one seems to have mentioned that this time.

DeniseM · Jan 17, 2013

Larry - You haven't updated your Bargain Deals forum post since Oct. - that means it's way back in the pages and no one sees it. You need to add new info. once in awhile to bring it to the top page where people will see it.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165158

and your Marketplace Ad expired: http://www.tug2.com/TimeshareMarket...tingGUID=7c71f1d7-2ddf-46f7-a5e8-6b4e0f0f4ae2

Your Ads were well written, but it requires ongoing effort to give away a timeshare in this economy.

You might also consider advertising locally, in Arkansas, with local real estate agents, and Penny Saver type classifieds.

Larry M · Jan 17, 2013

Having a little fun

I was actually having a little fun with this guy, sort of stringing him along. The dialog is presented here for your amusement and education.
=========================================================
You have a new message on TUG
From: "taalley@gmail.com" <taalley@gmail.com>Add to Contacts
To: marks@bellsouth.net

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomas Alley has sent you a message regarding Wyndham Vacation Resort at Fairfield Bay Classified ad on TUG.

Please log in here to view your message
=========================================================
The message follows. (I tried to reproduce the table in the TUG display in an HTML table and in Vbulletin codes, but cannot find a means to avoid deletion of alignment spaces, even in Courier and FixedSys fonts.)
=========================================================

From:
Thomas Alley
taalley@gmail.com
6072459434

Message:
Hello, I'm very interested in you week. I'm even willing to use a quitclaim deed if you paid 2 years of maintenance

Sincerely, Tom Alley

Date:
2013/01/08

=========================================================
Re: You have a new message on TUG
From: Laurence Marks <marks@bellsouth.net>View Contact
To: taalley@gmail.com

Thomas,

Tell me more. I'm not quite sure what this means: "I'm even willing to use a quit claim deed if you paid 2 years of maintenance."

Laurence Marks
=========================================================
Re: You have a new message on TUG
From: Tom Alley <taalley@gmail.com>Add to Contacts
To: Laurence Marks <marks@bellsouth.net>

Laurence,

I was offering to do a quit claim dead since they transfer ownership quickly and inexpensively. I am willing to take over this unit if you'd pay me the equivalent of 2 years maintenance. I know how difficult it is to give a fixed week away today. I'm very interested in this location and my CPA insisted I not take on the maintenance liability without 2-3 years of assurance.

Sincerely,

Tom Alley
=========================================================
Re: You have a new message on TUG
From: Laurence Marks <marks@bellsouth.net>View Contact
To: Tom Alley <taalley@gmail.com>

Tom,

Yes, this is a really great location. Temperate weather year round, pools, golf, tennis. It's a great choice.

I think I understand your process a little better. Do you have to use a separate closing company, or does your company do it? How does that work?

Laurence
=========================================================
Re: You have a new message on TUG
From: Tom Alley <taalley@gmail.com>Add to Contacts
To: Laurence Marks <marks@bellsouth.net>

Laurence,

I'm just a single guy but I am taking on some timeshares right now. We can do the deed either by warranty deed through a closing company or quitclaim deed (person to person). I do like using legalzoom.com since its a quick and reliable. In order for me to take this liability I do need the equivalent of 2 maintenance fees as payment $1,130.

Sincerely,

Tom Alley
=========================================================
Re: You have a new message on TUG
From: Laurence Marks <marks@bellsouth.net>View Contact
To: Tom Alley <taalley@gmail.com>

Tom,

This is more and more interesting. Since you said you are taking on "some timeshares," I wonder if you could help me out on two others I cannot use.

Are you active in the TUG forums? My username is "Larry M." What's yours?

Laurence
=========================================================
Re: You have a new message on TUG
From: Tom Alley <taalley@gmail.com>Add to Contacts
To: Laurence Marks <marks@bellsouth.net>

Laurence,

Actually I'm new to TUG but my username is Islander607. What else do you own?

Tom
=========================================================
Now, I had been carrying on a side conversation with Denise, responding to her request for his TUG User Name which I extracted above. I sent him one more message but Denise had axed him by then and he never responded.
=========================================================
Re: You have a new message on TUG
From: Laurence Marks <marks@bellsouth.net>View Contact
To: Tom Alley <taalley@gmail.com>

Tom,

I've got a property at Ocean Ridge, Edisto Island, SC, that we could talk about.

I've never done this sort of thing before. Could you send me a sample pf the contract and other paperwork?

Laurence

DeniseM · Jan 17, 2013

Good work Watson! Thanks so much for bringing this loser to my attention!

Born2Travel · Jun 5, 2013

He's at it again

Same guy who contacted me. The story is a little different, but basically same requests.

DeniseM · Jun 5, 2013

It appears that Tom Alley - taalley@gmail.com, is still contacting Tuggers...

Saintsfanfl · Jun 5, 2013

Do you know his general geographic location?

Saintsfanfl · Jun 5, 2013

I found him.

Thomas Andrew Alley - Age 35
13 Ayres St
Binghamton, NY 13905
607-277-5798
607-729-1250
607-217-4965

His facebook page says that his current city is HHI.

https://www.facebook.com/thomas.alley.56

If anyone thinks that it is wrong that I post this info I do not apologize. This is either public info or info that he has made available to the public. I am not saying that he is a scammer, but if anyone has been taken by him it might help them out.

Quitclaim? [Spammer (Thomas Alley) sending emails to Tuggers w/Ads in the Mktplace]

Larry M

timeos2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie

theo

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

ronparise

lcml11

DeniseM

JudyS

TheTimeTraveler

csxjohn

TUG Review Crew: Expert

lcml11

Saintsfanfl

DeniseM

DeniseM

lcml11

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

gnipgnop

TUG Review Crew: Expert

Larry M

Larry M

DeniseM

Larry M

DeniseM

Born2Travel

DeniseM

Saintsfanfl

Saintsfanfl