Looking into buying MVCI Points

Hi all,

I've been looking for a points-based TS to supplement my DVC and am down to Wyndham/Worldmark (thread here) and Marriott points.

I've been talking to an MVCI sales agent and am not in any hurry to purchase - although I do have a stay planned for Feb 2014 which I might end up just renting.

Here's what I've learned so far on the Marriott program:

1. It's very similar to our DVC in that its a points system and I can bank/borrow points from one UY to another.
2. However, it doesn't have the concept of a Home Resort, i.e., you can book anywhere and the advantage is really more based on Status (Premier, Premier+) rather than resort.
3. Since it's fairly new, it will be very difficult to get points via resale since only the weekly deeded properties are available via resale. So only option right now is to buy direct (true)?

Pricing:
- it looks like each point costs about $10-$11 depending on how many you buy and on-going incentives
- MFs are around $0.43/pt
- i can rent my points if needed (similar to DVC) at some markup over $0.43

Am I missing anything? Are there people who own points here? If so, are you happy? Could you share the # of points you own? I was given the full points chart book and I've been perusing it and it seems I need approx 3,000 to stay a full week in a 2BR (high to peak season).

Is there a disadvantage to buying the minimum points required for Premier (6,500 pts) to get the Status and benefits attached to it? Should I start small (2,000 pts) and buy more later after I've tried it out? The MFs seems high for 6,500. My DVC MFs are only $800 - so if I do something similar, it will only be about 1,860 pts. Should be enough to give me a 2BR EOY.

Do I buy now when it's new and points are relatively cheaper? Or do I wait until there's a solid resale market (though I was told Marriott will mostly provide a program that will allow for buyback/exit strategy).

It's good that you are researching first before buying, so whatever you decide you can be comfortable it is the right decision for you.

One thing I was wondering about when reading your post- you state that i"t seems I need at least 6,500 to even be able to stay a full week." Where and when are you looking to travel? Are you primarily looking at holiday vacation weeks (since you mentioned at least 6500 points for a full week)? If so, keep in mind that since most of the current inventory was sold as weeks, that availability is dependent on owners of holiday weeks converting them to points in any given year, and thus availability of holiday weeks at certain locales may be an issue.

I think people would be better able to offer advice if you shared some of your vacation goals- where/when/size of unit you'll mostly need.

There are some other options worth considering:

1) Buy weeks on the resale market. If you plan to vacation in weeklong increments, this will be far less expensive upfront than purchasing Trust Points, plus the maintenance fees will usually be much less using this approach.

2) Buy a resale week from Marriott and the Trust Points they require for the privilege of enrolling the resale week in the points program. This approach will allow you to use your week as is, trade it for Marriott Reward points or exchange it for MVC points that you can use just like Trust Points. If you want the flexibility of vacationing in increments other than a week or want to avoid some of the challenges of trading a week via II, this is another option instead of buying all Trust Points. You can find some resale weeks that yield high point values for a much lower ongoing maintenance fee than Trust Points (e.g., our Platinum Mountainside week yields 5350 points and a MF around $1,000--roughly 19¢ of MF per point). You will pay more for a resale week from Marriott than you would on the open market but you can also end up with more points to use in the Marriott system than you would buying Trust Points at retail value. We have been very happy with the flexibility this approach has provided us, but as the previous post says, your vacation goals will make a big difference in the option you choose.

m61376 said:

One thing I was wondering about when reading your post- you state that i"t seems I need at least 6,500 to even be able to stay a full week." Where and when are you looking to travel? Are you primarily looking at holiday vacation weeks (since you mentioned at least 6500 points for a full week)? If so, keep in mind that since most of the current inventory was sold as weeks, that availability is dependent on owners of holiday weeks converting them to points in any given year, and thus availability of holiday weeks at certain locales may be an issue.

I think people would be better able to offer advice if you shared some of your vacation goals- where/when/size of unit you'll mostly need.

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Sorry, that was my mistake. 6,500 was the minimum # of points to qualify for a Premier status.

One of the challenges I have with MVCI is that there are no properties near me (midwest) so I haven't really settled on which property to use for points calculation. What I think I would do is to buy enough to get into a 2BR 1wk EOY High season, ~1800, which will fall within my target of $800/yr MF.

Bnov said:

There are some other options worth considering:

1) Buy weeks on the resale market. If you plan to vacation in weeklong increments, this will be far less expensive upfront than purchasing Trust Points, plus the maintenance fees will usually be much less using this approach.

2) Buy a resale week from Marriott and the Trust Points they require for the privilege of enrolling the resale week in the points program. This approach will allow you to use your week as is, trade it for Marriott Reward points or exchange it for MVC points that you can use just like Trust Points. If you want the flexibility of vacationing in increments other than a week or want to avoid some of the challenges of trading a week via II, this is another option instead of buying all Trust Points. You can find some resale weeks that yield high point values for a much lower ongoing maintenance fee than Trust Points (e.g., our Platinum Mountainside week yields 5350 points and a MF around $1,000--roughly 19¢ of MF per point). You will pay more for a resale week from Marriott than you would on the open market but you can also end up with more points to use in the Marriott system than you would buying Trust Points at retail value. We have been very happy with the flexibility this approach has provided us, but as the previous post says, your vacation goals will make a big difference in the option you choose.

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So, I've kinda decided I don't want to purchase "week" TS. We don't really travel in "weeks". I"m just using 1 week to calculate my points requirement to give me a good side-by-side with DVC which is where I have experience. My understanding is that there's very little (to none) Trust points available in resale. I would have to understand converting weeks into trust points better to go that route. I looked at the resale website - when they say "Reward Points" - is that the same as "Trust Points"? Or do those mean Marriott Reward points (like I have with my normal hotel stays)? If the latter (which is what I think it is), how do I know how many Trust Points those are? Most of what I read from the internet are legacy TS owners mad at the new point system

To help everyone, here's what our vacation goals are:

1. We're a family of 6 (really young kids: 1, 4, 6, 8). We can fit in a 1 BR right now. In 2 years though, we have to move to a 2BR when our youngest is old enough. So, if I were to look longer term, I need enough points for a 2BR. From time to time, we do travel with our extended family (parents + brother and his family). When we do this, we have a party of 11-12 so 3-4 BR, but this is not EY.
2. We have about 4 vacation weeks a year + long weekends. 1 (or 2) of these weeks are Disney weeks (at least in the forseeable future while my kids are young), 1 week is my "me time" vacation. I do this EOY. 1 (or 2) weeks around school holidays (Christmas/Easter/Spring Break/Thanksgiving). Even though I keep on saying "week", I really mean longer stays of 5-9 days. I have lots of 4 day weekends I'd like to drive nearby with the kids for a 3-4 day stay.
3. Need to be flexible with days (can't do fixed week). My experience so far is to "stretch" our points and save on airfare, we go Sunday-Thursday. I don't think we've ever done exactly one week. This is why I've stuck to points based TS coz I think it fits our travel pattern
4. While the ability to "trade" into RCI/II is nice, I don't really want to have the hassle of "trading" into RCI/II if I can avoid it. I'd use DVC points for DVC resorts, Marriott points for Marriott resorts, Wyndham points for Wyndham resorts
5. It would also be nice to know that if we have a light travel year, that it's easy to convert/rent the points and not "lose them".

Based on all of the above and my research to date, I think the best TS combo for us are:
1. Some DVC points for our Disney trips (enough points for a 2BR EOY)
2. Some Wyndham/Worldmark points for our short-stays (I also considered Bluegreen)
3. Some other points based TS with high quality for our longer non-Disney trips (enough points for a 2BR EOY). Between HGVC, Starwoods and Marriott, I like the Marriott properties the best. I looked in HGVC, and while I like it enough - I just think they have great properties, and some so-so properties. Marriott has better consistency across the board.

I'm not in a hurry and am into research mode to make sure I make the right decisions. We purchased DVC 2 years ago and have enjoyed that. I've been paying cash for our short trips and think that a Wyndham/Worldmark purchase is nearing, and then do the Marriott later for when our kids are bigger/older.


Thanks in advance for all the help!

For what it is that you want, it might be best to rent whatever points you need each year. The premium you pay to rent it over the normal MF is so minimal that it is way better value than buying them you self. If the premium was say $0.20/pt - you could have to rent for 50 years (50x 0.20 = $10) with the money you saved from buying and have no commitment ever!

Can't beat that. No initial cash outlay, rent as much or as little as you want/need each year.

I would suggest still looking at resale weeks that you can get here or eBay where you can trade in II as your cost basis will be much lower than points reservations very often, even if you don't stay the full week or even if you have to rent a couple of days before your reservation starts. You can say rent point to get those few extra days.

Quadmaniac said:

For what it is that you want, it might be best to rent whatever points you need each year. The premium you pay to rent it over the normal MF is so minimal that it is way better value than buying them you self. If the premium was say $0.20/pt - you could have to rent for 50 years (50x 0.20 = $10) with the money you saved from buying and have no commitment ever!

Can't beat that. No initial cash outlay, rent as much or as little as you want/need each year.

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Very true! The challenge with that is that I have to be very firm/sure of our reservation months in advance to rent. For example, I think I am going to have to rent my MGC 2014 stay. So, I am in the process of doing that right now. Booking window opens anytime from Jan 13 (for Premier) to April 13 (non premier) owners. At any of those times, airfare from ORD to LAS is not yet out so I would have to rent those points hoping that airfare will be good that weekend.

I don't know enough about cancellation and renting to answer this question. With DVC, any rental transaction in FINAL. So once you rent, you better be sure you're not changing One of the owners need me to decide quickly because they would like to decide if they're renting or depositing into II.

But for our MVCI, since I'm not in any hurry - I do think I will be renting in the near future while continuing the research and educating myself so that if I see a resale property, I can snag it and make an informed decision if I need to.


Thanks!

Myxdvz said:

Very true! The challenge with that is that I have to be very firm/sure of our reservation months in advance to rent. For example, I think I am going to have to rent my MGC 2014 stay. So, I am in the process of doing that right now. Booking window opens anytime from Jan 13 (for Premier) to April 13 (non premier) owners. At any of those times, airfare from ORD to LAS is not yet out so I would have to rent those points hoping that airfare will be good that weekend.

I don't know enough about cancellation and renting to answer this question. With DVC, any rental transaction in FINAL. So once you rent, you better be sure you're not changing One of the owners need me to decide quickly because they would like to decide if they're renting or depositing into II.

But for our MVCI, since I'm not in any hurry - I do think I will be renting in the near future while continuing the research and educating myself so that if I see a resale property, I can snag it and make an informed decision if I need to.


Thanks!

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I think that is still a concern whether you own points or rent them, that you need to coordinate flights that correspond to your time.

In terms of booking that far in advance, if you are looking into 2014 already, you should really consider buying a resale week (not from Marriott) and you can easily trade into MGC. There is tonnes of availability in 2013 even and into 2014.

Quadmaniac said:

I think that is still a concern whether you own points or rent them, that you need to coordinate flights that correspond to your time.

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But at least I can cancel right? And I own the reservation myself so I can move dates around.

I'm not sure what MVCI renter's cancellation policies are. If its flexible, I will definitely look into renting long term.

Quadmaniac said:

In terms of booking that far in advance, if you are looking into 2014 already, you should really consider buying a resale week (not from Marriott) and you can easily trade into MGC. There is tonnes of availability in 2013 even and into 2014.

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I guess DVC has trained me to book a year in advanced 2014 is just something special since I'm planning for my 40th birthday bash with my girl friends!

Everything is on the table right now, I'm just not in a hurry to purchase until I know the details of MVCI (or any TS) ownership.

I've looked into MVCI points many times and still can't convince myself to buy. If you really want to control your own reservation, I would buy the smallest point package available. I believe if you hold out, they'll offer you a 1000 pt package. This will minimize your on going cost and initial outlay. It was also minimize your losses if you ever need to sell.

You can then rent the point you need for your reservation. Unlike DVC you can make multiple transfers a year. Once you transfer points in, they must be used by the end of the UY, which is Dec for legacy points. Now you'll be free to cancel or rebook your own reservation.

slum808 said:

I've looked into MVCI points many times and still can't convince myself to buy. If you really want to control your own reservation, I would buy the smallest point package available. I believe if you hold out, they'll offer you a 1000 pt package. This will minimize your on going cost and initial outlay. It was also minimize your losses if you ever need to sell.

You can then rent the point you need for your reservation. Unlike DVC you can make multiple transfers a year. Once you transfer points in, they must be used by the end of the UY, which is Dec for legacy points. Now you'll be free to cancel or rebook your own reservation.

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The lowest point offer they gave me so far is 1,500. But even so, that's $17K! I looked at the points chart and 1,500 is only good for maybe 2 weekend days, or 3-4 weekdays. At $820 MF/CD, too expensive, IMO.

Check out GregT's website dedicated to point rental (http://vacationpointexchange.com). This is a great resource!

Here is the webpage where Marriott outlines all the rules that apply to using points: http://www.my-vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/enrollment_legal_docs/exchange_procedures.pdf

Hope that helps!

Myxdvz said:

The lowest point offer they gave me so far is 1,500. But even so, that's $17K! I looked at the points chart and 1,500 is only good for maybe 2 weekend days, or 3-4 weekdays. At $820 MF/CD, too expensive, IMO.

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Yes it is expensive, but acutally still cheaper than DVC.

slum808 said:

Yes it is expensive, but acutally still cheaper than DVC.

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Only if you buy direct. Since DVC has a solid resale market, you could buy for less. I don't think there is (or will be) resale market for MVCI points. Someone told me that MVCI intends to buy them back instead.

If there comes a time where there's a resale market for MVCI, maybe I'll be more inclined to buy it?

good evening...

remember that with new Trust points, there is no home resort!!! You are guaranteed absolutely nothing....I recently did a 13 month sweep of MOC New towers, in all view categories.. There were a couple of off season fall weeks, early December too...

just sayin...

puckmanfl said:

good evening...

remember that with new Trust points, there is no home resort!!! You are guaranteed absolutely nothing....I recently did a 13 month sweep of MOC New towers, in all view categories.. There were a couple of off season fall weeks, early December too...

just sayin...

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And in your own opinion - is this a good thing or a bad thing?

good evening

I think it is bad!!!!

Pretty dangerous to make a major investment and not have a home resort guarantee!!!!

puckmanfl said:

good evening

I think it is bad!!!!

Pretty dangerous to make a major investment and not have a home resort guarantee!!!!

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I hate to disagree but I think this is just a basic difference between TS types.

If you want guarantee, then I think you'd want to go with deeded property fixed/floating.

I don't know of ANY point system TS that guarantees a stay at your home resort anytime you book. I think most will give you a home resort booking advantage - but if you sleep on your toes and decide to book last minute, you are still not going to be guaranteed to get what you want from your home resort. DVC, as expensive as it is, won't guarantee you that Standard View room in BLT on Christmas/NYE unless you book at the 11 month window.

IMO, it is a tradeoff of flexibility vs guarantee. People like me, who wants flexibility and not locked into a certain week, a certain place and a certain # of days - gravitate towards a points system.

I think the deeded properties with points option is a good mix between the two. It guarantees you a stay on your fixed/floating week for the unit you have, but allows the flexibility of points to book elsewhere.

good evening....

True... only fixed weeks give absolute guarantees. I meant home resort advantage. I have been thru about 20 of these sales pitches. I overhear the comments to the newbies. You don't at any one resort. You own at ALL of the resorts. It just ain't true.. Just about impossible to snag a week at MOC New towers. I would be pretty annoyed If i drop 80 K and still could not get MOC...

I purchased my Legacy weeks and knew I would have to trade to get good stuff... The newbies are being told they can go anywhere!!!

I have the best of everything... Can use my Legacy weeks, can lock off and trade. Can convert to DC points and book points as well...

I don't think Trust owners have these options....

This is a very good point. When you purchase dvc direct or resale you know that the trust owns all of the inventory. When you purchase from mvci they sell you on MOC when in reality the trust owns very little MOC. Perhaps if I were a state regulator I would for them to disclose the actual trust holdings to potential buyers.

Myxdvz said:

I hate to disagree but I think this is just a basic difference between TS types.

If you want guarantee, then I think you'd want to go with deeded property fixed/floating.

I don't know of ANY point system TS that guarantees a stay at your home resort anytime you book. I think most will give you a home resort booking advantage - but if you sleep on your toes and decide to book last minute, you are still not going to be guaranteed to get what you want from your home resort. DVC, as expensive as it is, won't guarantee you that Standard View room in BLT on Christmas/NYE unless you book at the 11 month window.

IMO, it is a tradeoff of flexibility vs guarantee. People like me, who wants flexibility and not locked into a certain week, a certain place and a certain # of days - gravitate towards a points system.

I think the deeded properties with points option is a good mix between the two. It guarantees you a stay on your fixed/floating week for the unit you have, but allows the flexibility of points to book elsewhere.

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I think the issue is that there are certain resorts/weeks that will not be available to anyone using points calling in at the first possible moment to reserve, and others with a very limited availability. I think that's an issue unique to the MVC points program, because there are some weeks that are purely legacy weeks and not in the trust, so any availability is dependent on an owner of that week depositing it into the exchange pool. Realistically, most will have some availability, but if you are buying with the intent to go to Hawaii, skiing or the Caribbean over weeks 51 or 52, or perhaps week 7, you have a good chance of being disappointed more often than not, which is an inherent problem in the points only program.

I believe that there will be opportunities for points owners to get their reservations over time as more and more legacy weeks owners begin to trust the points system more. I know that MOC Napili Towers has trust units in it as will the other properties because Marriott will put all of their new properties and unsold units into the club. Also, there is a reason for weeks owners to make a decision in September is that are going to use DC points in the following year. This helps Marriott determine what units they will have for trust points members. The same can be said for those who exchange their units for MRP and II. In time, the system will provide more opportunities for points owners. With my DRI Club membership, I have never had a problem getting a reservation at 10 months out in Maui and I don't have home resort advantage there.

I believe that as boomers age and become more flexible with their time and begin to travel at times other than summer, you will see more and more opportunities for points owners as well. You add that with people not being able to pay the crazy amounts to get a stay in Maui and there really won't be a problem.

csalter2 said:

I believe that there will be opportunities for points owners to get their reservations over time as more and more legacy weeks owners begin to trust the points system more. I know that MOC Napili Towers has trust units in it as will the other properties because Marriott will put all of their new properties and unsold units into the club. Also, there is a reason for weeks owners to make a decision in September is that are going to use DC points in the following year. This helps Marriott determine what units they will have for trust points members.

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I think that you have to actually see these opportunities appear before you can start betting on it. As in the past, developers have been less than truthful in their methods of selling their product and their promises. I prefer the "I will believe it when I can see it" philosophy than buying in on the hopes it will happen.

I have trouble seeing people who bought into MOC necessarily depositing many of them into DC for a couple of reasons. Many owners who paid such a premium for MOC is because they want to be there and use it. There will always be a percentage that can't use it that year, but after paying those MF might just rent it out to recoop their MF. Now there will also be that group that will deposit it into DC if they can get enough to go to a resort that would be equivalent to what they are giving up. This cuts up the pie quite a bit and as such it will hard to imagine the trust having that many weeks.

Who knows ? I can be completely wrong, but I think we might be counting our chickens before they hatch in speculating that there will be more weeks in the future. Like the say, the proof is in the pudding. Let's see it, then we can believe it.

Glad to be able to educate newbie now!

Glad that I can educate newbies now. :whoopie:

I was in your shoes a few weeks ago, wanting to buy into the points system. After long discussions with TUGgers and some background research, I cancelled my deal and got my deposit back. A wealth of wisdom and recommendations were shared in my thread, see it here: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184121

If you want the flexibility, and don't mind spending 15K+ to buy into the program, then the best deal is to get a bundle- resale week+equivalent or more points. I think the minimum resale week converts to more than 1000 points, so to buy equivalent or more points, you will end up having more than 2000 points. Be sure that you want to pay for that much MF every year. The reason for recommending the bundle is you pay less to get more points, while still enjoy the same privileges than buy points only.

A few things to be aware of:
1. Buying points doesn't guarantee that you will get what you want, it is subject to availability. And as others have mentioned here, there is currently two inventories-legacy inventory and trust inventory. Buying points only give you access to trust inventory, while many good weeks remain in the legacy inventory which you do not have access to.
2. There is currently no resale market for points. Not quite sure if this will ever exist. You are locked for the rest of your life to pay for the MF every year. If you don't like it X years later, there is no exit strategy.... You can still rent your points out(currently you can rent more than 43c/point, but if in the future supply is greater than demand, you may not be able to rent more than MF), convert it to MRP(MRP value is declining..), or bank it(with limited time to use it).

We were pretty determined to buy points at the beginning, but at the end decided to buy a fixed week and enjoy the up and downs of exchanging it in II. I personally believe the points system has its merit, but you have to be sure that you want to pay more to get the privileges or stays you may get with less money.

I think I will defer my MVCI purchase (if I ever do it) for a couple of years. It is too new, and it seems to me, the inventory available to the Trust points too inconsistent.

I looked into buying a "bundle", but even then - the lowest points I could buy 1,500 is too expensive (@ $17K) and it will get me 1 weekend night in MGC Las Vegas.

I do know that for my families travel pattern, I prefer points. We have DVC right now - and I am aggressively looking for Wyndham points I can buy from resale.

good morning

Fiona...you catch on quick....

The inventory works as follows...

2 pools of "point" inventory...

#1 Trust pool.... units and intervals in the Trust..Trust owners are partial owners of this deeded Trust and have DIRECT access to this inventory...

#2 Exchange Company..This is the inventory that occurs when a Legacy owner such as myself exchanges his deeded week for DC OR MR points... Also inventory comes into this from unpaid MF's etc...

Trust owners have legal direct access to BOTH pools..whereas Legacy owners have direct access to the Exchange Company and Access to Trust inventory only if MVCD moves Trust inventory into the Exchange Company...

How this is done is the 64K query....

the sales snakes usew this as the "pitch".."only Trust owners get access to Trust" they say... Actually the documents state that when a Trust owners plucks inventory from Exchange, then equivalent inventory from Trust moves to Exchange to replace exchange inventory lost...

my humble opinion..is that the points are legally distinct, but functionally the same... I have snagged TRUST reservations with my Legacy points...

Think about it... MVCD needs a fluid equilibrium... If there is no good access to Trust inventory to Legacy owners (myself) then I won't deposit my Legacy weeks for DC points. If this happens on a large level, then Trust owners will ave limited Ski week, HHI summer and MOC opportunities... Word of mouth at the "pool" spreads quickly...

MVCD cannot afford the following scenario at the hot tub....

Trust Owner... "darn it just spent $50K on these points and just can't get a good summer reservation..."
Legacy Owner " too bad..I just traded into summer newport using my branson week"