Wyndham transfer process / BBB rating

tahoe50 · Apr 14, 2012

Hello, is anyone having trouble with Wyndham being slow in transferring a sale? I purchased a timeshare on 9/6/2011. The deed was completed on 9/30/2011. I was told in Feb of 2012, that Wyndham changed the requirements and I had to resubmit. The seller said that Wyndham is trying to eliminate the resale market, and therefore trying to discourage people with this slow process. He said Wyndham has changed the requirements 5 times in the last year.
I also see that Wyndham Vacation Ownership has over 1200 complaints with the BBB in the last 3 years and this concerns me. I thought Wyndham was a fine company. I am not sure if I can back out at this point, but may try.

Any thoughts on this slow process, and satisfaction with Wyndham is appreciated. thanks

ronparise · Apr 14, 2012

No slower than usual, although the time its taking you seems way too long Understand that nothing happened until you corrected the mistake in Feb

Have you called Wyndham's transfer dept to inquire recently? If there is something still wrong they will often just set it aside and wait for you or your seller to get it right. Call to find out jjust like you did in Feb

I dont know what 5 changes your seller is talking about...All I am aware of is the $299 transfer fee, but thats been in effect for about a year Wyndham may not like the resale market but I have had 3 deeds transfer since the first of the year with no problems

rrlongwell · Apr 14, 2012

tahoe50 said:
... The seller said that Wyndham is trying to eliminate the resale market, and therefore trying to discourage people with this slow process ...

In my opinion, a way of phrasing the above more to Wyndham's liking would be to observe the rental portion is of growing significance to the profitability of Wyndham Worldwide and that organizational changes need to made to reconizing the increasing role of the rental related activities. Have fun, it took me forever and a day to get all of the problems with my account resolved when I took over my mother's and step fathers Wyndham timeshares relating to Wyndham percentant insistance on taking back some or all of my Club Wyndham Plus timeshares and going into Club Wyndham Access instead. It is not real surprising to me that this effort is not limited to direct purchase/inherited timeshares, but also includes the re-sale buyers.

In my opionion, the driving intent of Wyndham is create new developer sales into the Club Wyndham Access program where Club Wyndham Access owns the deeds and Wyndham can take over the use rights at various points in time for the for their own uses. If I am right, this would primarily affect re-sale owners, UDI owners, fixed week owners, converted week owner etc.

scootr5 · Apr 14, 2012

I'd guess perhaps there was a problem with the deed.

pacodemountainside · Apr 14, 2012

tahoe50 said:
Hello, is anyone having trouble with Wyndham being slow in transferring a sale? I purchased a timeshare on 9/6/2011. The deed was completed on 9/30/2011. I was told in Feb of 2012, that Wyndham changed the requirements and I had to resubmit. The seller said that Wyndham is trying to eliminate the resale market, and therefore trying to discourage people with this slow process. He said Wyndham has changed the requirements 5 times in the last year.
I also see that Wyndham Vacation Ownership has over 1200 complaints with the BBB in the last 3 years and this concerns me. I thought Wyndham was a fine company. I am not sure if I can back out at this point, but may try.

Any thoughts on this slow process, and satisfaction with Wyndham is appreciated. thanks

IMO when a company has an "F" BBB rating it is IPSO FACTO as the lawyers like to say you are going to get rued, screwed and tattoed.

Yes, Wyndham abhors resales and does everything it can to frustrate.

Yes, Wyndham is a great company to own stock in!

No, only change I am aware of is Wyndham increased fee to register resale from $100 to $299 last May and instead of reducing processing time increased it! You figure!

Suggest you take a hour or two and scan several threads that explore your concerns in depth and then draw your conclusions.

No brainer only way to buy Wyndham is resale, but be prepared for long processing times and obstacles. The only money they make off you is from $299 fee. Doesn't help sales person pay rent and in fact takes away sales opportunity!

pacodemountainside · Apr 14, 2012

"In my opinion, a way of phrasing the above more to Wyndham's liking would be to observe the rental portion is of growing significance to the profitability of Wyndham Worldwide and that organizational changes need to made to reconizing the increasing role of the rental related activities."

RR: Again, you have confussed me.

Several years ago Wyndham recognized "mega" (however you want to define) renters were hurting its EH rental endeavors. The VOI puppet board made several changes to address. See www.wyndsham.com for gory details. Of course, RCI simply does not permit its reservations to be rented for a profit!

"Have fun, it took me forever and a day to get all of the problems with my account resolved when I took over my mother's and step fathers Wyndham timeshares relating to Wyndham percentant insistance on taking back some or all of my Club Wyndham Plus timeshares and going into Club Wyndham Access instead. It is not real surprising to me that his effort is not limited to direct purchase/inherited timeshares, but also includes the re-sale buyers."

This makes no sense. The executor of the estate would simply mail death certificates and other documentation to Wyndham Deeding in Vegas who would duly record. Wyndham Deeding has no sales people and simply records documents it is presented, albeit slowly. There has never been a post Wyndham Deeding referred any contract to sales for them to beat one up(Obviously excludes paperwork details with Developer sales)

Apparently you wandered into sales lair and were told your account was screwed up like almost anyone who has done a sales pitch so se la vie! Virtually all of our accounts are screwed up and need fixing, upgrading to CWA which carries around a 20% premium, etc. will only cost many thousands of dollars to correct.

"In my opionion, the driving intent of Wyndham is create new developer sales into the Club Wyndham Access program where Club Wyndham Access owns the deeds and Wyndham can take over the use rights at various points in time for the for their own uses. If I am right, this would primarily affect re-sale owners, UDI owners, fixed week owners, converted week owner etc."

I am fully aware EH can steal 90% of VOI inventory at 60 days, but unaware anyone can steal CWA inventory(use rights) at any time. As I read above, what owners are excluded? Actually fixed week owners have no rights under Club Wyndam/VOI Trust! Please clarify!

Wyndham sales person will take any deal from small EOY contract to a VIP Platinum any way he can get it!
With just 4K+ new owners last year many are desperate to pay their next months rent!
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Last edited by rrlongwell : April 14, 2012 at 03:13 PM.

rrlongwell · Apr 14, 2012

pacodemountainside said:
... " ... It is not real surprising to me that this effort is not limited to direct purchase/inherited timeshares, but also includes the re-sale buyers."

This makes no sense. The executor of the estate would simply mail death certificates and other documentation to Wyndham Deeding in Vegas who would duly record. Wyndham Deeding has no sales people and simply records documents it is presented, albeit slowly ... "

"In my opionion, the driving intent of Wyndham is create new developer sales into the Club Wyndham Access program where Club Wyndham Access owns the deeds and Wyndham can take over the use rights at various points in time for the for their own uses. If I am right, this would primarily affect re-sale owners, UDI owners, fixed week owners, converted week owner etc." ....

Actually fixed week owners have no rights under Club Wyndam/VOI Trust! Please clarify! ...

Wyndham Vacation Ownership/Resorts actually do have obligations to fixed week owners. Wyndham has the management contracts on a number of the resorts in the Wyndham system. There obligations are the obligations that the Resort has to its fixed week owners. For more information on that point, you would have to refer to the fixed week deed to follow the legal reference to contolling documents. These obligations can vary by the Resort in question.

Actually, I would not mind if I contributed to Wyndham's F rating with the BBB, but they already had it before I got involved. It is a well deserved rating that I am sure sales staff worked hard to achieve. Not all major companies manage to achieve this feat. Actually, I do not think other major companies try real hard to do this.

You are right, they do not have the sales staff, but that does not stop conditioning their approval on complaince with the sales staff demands.

Just a final thought. I try to respond to the legitamite posts. It gets old defending against the attack posts. I wish Tug would consider dealing with attack posts aimed at members that are not in the favored click.

Click to expand...

littlestar · Apr 15, 2012

The last transfer I did with Wyndham (gave another tugger some of my Wyndham points) only took about three weeks to complete! That was November of last year. Sounds like there may have been a problem with the deed or something or with your seller.

Ballen0351 · Apr 16, 2012

littlestar said:
The last transfer I did with Wyndham (gave another tugger some of my Wyndham points) only took about three weeks to complete! That was November of last year. Sounds like there may have been a problem with the deed or something or with your seller.

I just picked up two contracts this month took about that long too 4 weeks tops. Very smooth and fast i was happy with it all.

kccct274 · May 1, 2012

Fair warning: This is my first post to this enormously helpful BBS and I apologize if I have posted to the wrong thread.

I bought 126K resale points from ebay in October for Wyndham Smoky Mtns. Tenn. The deed was recorded within one month (11/29/2011). The transfer with Wyndham has yet to take effect and I am still unable to use these points.

After getting a runaround from the title co. about "changes in Wyndham requirements" and "having to resubmit documents", I initiated a dispute last week with the credit card co. that funds my PayPal account.

Well, THAT got somebody's attention. I am now being hounded by the seller to reverse the PayPal chargeback or all sorts of terrible things will happen to me, etc., etc.

While both the seller and the title co. continue to blame Wyndham for the delay, they have consistently refused to provide me with the contract number so I can take my fight to Wyndham directly. I suspect this is because the problem is theirs, not Wyndham's, but I don't know for sure.

I am prepared to either: 1) cancel the dispute if I get Wyndham's confirmation of the transfer; or 2) completely unwind this transaction and sign back a deed to the seller and keep the credit on my account.

I am afraid that I will lose any leverage by cancelling the payment dispute, which the seller is insisting that I do but which I have not done yet.

Any advice as to how this will/should play out if I stand my ground?

rrlongwell · May 1, 2012

puboffender said:
... Well, THAT got somebody's attention. I am now being hounded by the seller to reverse the PayPal chargeback or all sorts of terrible things will happen to me, etc., etc. ...

What you are going through is one of the risks of dealing with E-Bay sales in the timeshare re-sale market. I would also file with your credit card company and with the BBB that covers the whoever you are working with if they are a company. If this is a company, you may also want to run the people's name through the State that the Resort is in to see if they are lincensed to sell in that state. Same for the closing company if the state the Resort is in requires this. I would not worry about the threats. If the threats are to person or property, turn them into law enforcement authorities. If this is a re-sale company or closing company, you might want to post their names as a warning to others. My guess is the timeshare is now in default with Wyndham. You may want to talk to an attorney in the state where the resort is located in. Sometimes that is not expensive or free for an initial review. If you need help on this point, you can contract the Barr Association in the state and get a referal to someone that handles this type of problem.

kccct274 · May 1, 2012

rrlongwell said:
I would not worry about the threats. If the threats are to person or property, turn them into law enforcement authorities. If this is a re-sale company or closing company, you might want to post their names as a warning to others. My guess is the timeshare is now in default with Wyndham.

No, the threats are the usual litigation-type stuff - nothing personal or anything like that.

The re-sale co. is apparently a very familiar one (which I found out too late, of course): IA Vacations, aka redweeks4less

The closing/title co. is also an old standby: Property Relief, LLC.

Needless to say, I did not check the BBB before buying these points. I had had 2 or 3 very smooth and uneventful experiences on ebay (with other sellers & closing cos.) before this deal and I naively thought that all were going to be the same. Silly me!

Regarding the MF, I paid one month's at closing and was not supposed to have another due until 1/2012. I resisted their demands to pay Jan. & Feb. for a while but ultimately relented. They have not come back to me for Mar. and thereafter, so you are probably quite right about them being in default.

pacodemountainside · May 1, 2012

puboffender said:
Fair warning: This is my first post to this enormously helpful BBS and I apologize if I have posted to the wrong thread.

I bought 126K resale points from ebay in October for Wyndham Smoky Mtns. Tenn. The deed was recorded within one month (11/29/2011). The transfer with Wyndham has yet to take effect and I am still unable to use these points.

After getting a runaround from the title co. about "changes in Wyndham requirements" and "having to resubmit documents", I initiated a dispute last week with the credit card co. that funds my PayPal account.

Well, THAT got somebody's attention. I am now being hounded by the seller to reverse the PayPal chargeback or all sorts of terrible things will happen to me, etc., etc.

While both the seller and the title co. continue to blame Wyndham for the delay, they have consistently refused to provide me with the contract number so I can take my fight to Wyndham directly. I suspect this is because the problem is theirs, not Wyndham's, but I don't know for sure.

I am prepared to either: 1) cancel the dispute if I get Wyndham's confirmation of the transfer; or 2) completely unwind this transaction and sign back a deed to the seller and keep the credit on my account.

I am afraid that I will lose any leverage by cancelling the payment dispute, which the seller is insisting that I do but which I have not done yet.

Any advice as to how this will/should play out if I stand my ground?

Hang tough!

I don't think there is a Wyndham contract number until Wyndham accepts.

Assuming standard e-bay listing lingo and subsequet contract seller guarantees free, clear, unencumbered deed and by inference the rights to use points and benefits associated with. This is seller's and Title company problem, not yours unless you have failed to supply requested info Wyndham requires such as SSN and maybe copy of driver's license.

The only change in Wyndham polices in last year was to increase transfer fee from $100 to $299.

Seller cannot make reservation as he was too cheap to pay Wyndham fee to put in his name!

You are fortunate credit card company accepted dispute after 60 dead line!

I would put ball in sellers court and file complaint with e-bay.

Not an attorney!

ronparise · May 1, 2012

In my experience when I come to a closed door, and I want to get to the other side I have a couple of choices

I can put on my old steel toed boots and kick the damned thing down, or I can turn the knob and walk in, or I can kneel down and pray to god that he open it for me, or I can knock lightly and ask if I may come in

Most of the time you dont have to use brute force to kick it in. Usually you can to get to the other side with less drastic measures

So it is with real estate closings...there are lots of closed doors that have to be opened to move a real estate deal from contract to closing. And sometimes the locks on those doors are complex, or rusted or otherwise difficult to open

You have employed a transfer company to get this job done, why dont you back off and let them do their work. By all means stay in touch and know whats going on, but I dont think you need the big guns

Know also that real estate deals sometimes cant be done...the title is too screwed up, an owner from 20 years ago didnt sign off properly when he sold it, or a homeowners association changes their rules mid stream...stuff happens...deal with it

If you still want the deal be nice...if not dont, but know this...there are two ebay sellers that wont sell to me any more...I learned my lesson

puboffender said:
Fair warning: This is my first post to this enormously helpful BBS and I apologize if I have posted to the wrong thread.

I bought 126K resale points from ebay in October for Wyndham Smoky Mtns. Tenn. The deed was recorded within one month (11/29/2011). The transfer with Wyndham has yet to take effect and I am still unable to use these points.

After getting a runaround from the title co. about "changes in Wyndham requirements" and "having to resubmit documents", I initiated a dispute last week with the credit card co. that funds my PayPal account.

Well, THAT got somebody's attention. I am now being hounded by the seller to reverse the PayPal chargeback or all sorts of terrible things will happen to me, etc., etc.

While both the seller and the title co. continue to blame Wyndham for the delay, they have consistently refused to provide me with the contract number so I can take my fight to Wyndham directly. I suspect this is because the problem is theirs, not Wyndham's, but I don't know for sure.

I am prepared to either: 1) cancel the dispute if I get Wyndham's confirmation of the transfer; or 2) completely unwind this transaction and sign back a deed to the seller and keep the credit on my account.

I am afraid that I will lose any leverage by cancelling the payment dispute, which the seller is insisting that I do but which I have not done yet.

Any advice as to how this will/should play out if I stand my ground?

kccct274 · May 1, 2012

I agree wholeheartedly with the approach to move heaven and earth to make the deal happen before blowing it up. I do that willingly and even enthusiastically in my "real world" job.

But I "played nice" for over 5 months. I did so with a title co. that I did not choose, but rather with one that was forced upon me by the seller (I smell a "B-I-L type" arrangement between them anyway). And for those efforts, I was rewarded with a correspondence trail that was at best scripted, and at worst duplicitous. And so I got tired of being "played" and took the step of complaining to American Express. At least that got some action.

I honestly want to know how long this transfer process is supposed to take; I don't want to "jump ugly" with a seller or a title co. before it is reasonable to do so. Am I being unrealistic in my expectations that a transfer within Wyndham should happen in less than 6 months from purchase on ebay? I have read posts on this BBS indicating transfers that range from days to months. How long am I supposed to wait before "smelling a rat" in the resale / transfer process? And how do I identify who "the rat" really is?

If this/these questions have been asked and answered before I apologize. I have been reviewing this BBS for some time but it is pretty daunting in its scope and depth - and I could well have missed a thread on this direct point.

Many thanks to all who are reading and posting in reply to my problem.

ausman · May 1, 2012

What was the purchase 126K points?, seems to me you have gone through enough aggravation for what is a relatively small points ownership resale.

At this point I'd keep the credit card dispute in play and wait for them to perform if able.

A rat smelled is a rat smelled and it seems there is a rat around.

ronparise · May 1, 2012

Ok

You say you have the recorded deed. But has as it been sent to Wyndham? Call them and ask..they will be able to find it with your name and the name of the previous owner..ask them if the $299 transfer fee has been paid. If not get back to the title company..They should either pay it or produce the cancelled check.

If the deed is at Wyndham and the fee has been paid, it looks like the title company did their job...but maybe they made a mistake

If there is a problem with the deed. for example if the sellers name in Wyndhams records is John Jones and the name on the new deed is Jon Jones, or John Jonas then there is a problem that needs to be fixed. My point is there is either a problem or their isnt...Wyndham should be able to tell you if there is a problem or not and point you in the right direction to get it fixed

Recently I called Wyndham just to confirm that they had received my deed and the fee. The answer was yes, and I was told that it would be 4 to 6 more weeks to get the contract in my account...It showed up the next day

Im telling you and I really believe it. if you call Wyndham you will get your answers and a path to follow

antjmar · May 2, 2012

pacodemountainside said:
I don't think there is a Wyndham contract number until Wyndham accepts.

There actually is, I think it stays the same from the previous seller.
I would get this number from seller and then take Rons advice. Wyndham will not be able to help without this number (at least thats what they told me).

rrlongwell · May 2, 2012

pacodemountainside said:
... I would put ball in sellers court and file complaint with e-bay.

Not an attorney!

I think I understand, E-Bay Reseller/closing company gets paid in Step One. In step two Buyer pays more maintance fees without getting use and now has deed in their name. Step three Reseller tries to get more maintance fees paid by buyer with no use. Suggested Step four is to "put ball in seller court" and file a complaint with E-Bay (note, if the transfer does go through, someone still has to pay the back maintance fees - no doubt the buyer). Of course there is no attorney review needed here, it might interfer with the profitability of the E-Bay re-seller - I guess a definate no no.

Also, the potiential for continuing liabiilty for maintance fees into the future for the buyer with no use. Great Deal for the re-seller.

scootr5 · May 2, 2012

antjmar said:
There actually is, I think it stays the same from the previous seller.
I would get this number from seller and then take Rons advice. Wyndham will not be able to help without this number (at least thats what they told me).

The contract number does not change, only the member number associated with it. As part of your due diligence in the purchase, did you request/receive a document from Wyndham that says "Vacation Ownership Interest Details:" at the top? Just below that should be the contract number.

Wyndham transfer process / BBB rating

tahoe50

ronparise

rrlongwell

scootr5

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

pacodemountainside

pacodemountainside

rrlongwell

littlestar

Ballen0351

kccct274

rrlongwell

kccct274

pacodemountainside

ronparise

kccct274

ausman

ronparise

antjmar

rrlongwell

scootr5

TUG Review Crew: Veteran