Selling a Timeshare [Cold Call - RH Financial Holding Inc]

baitcaster54 · Jan 26, 2012

Is anyone familiar with a company called RH Financial Holding Inc in Wilmington Del. They have contacted me for a add I have saying they have a buyer for my property. They say they have received the down payment and closing cost from the buyer. They want me to wire transfer a sum greater than 2k to the R H Revenue office in Orlando FL. They have emailed me a cotract with buyers name and address. It seems on the up and up but also feels like a scam.

Gophesjo · Jan 26, 2012

I would probably send the info straight to the Fla. Attorney General. What could they possibly present as the reason for wirinig those funds - do you owe money to a lender on this, or did they feed you some bs about fees?

Seriously, I would inform the AG.

DeniseM · Jan 26, 2012

There is a simple rule of thumb for dealing with timeshare business offers:

Any company that charges you a large upfront fee of any kind to sell or rent your timeshare, or to get your money back from another company, makes their money from the upfront fee - they have NO intention of providing any services to you. They make their money with the upfront fee and then they make no attempt to sell/rent your timeshare, or to get your money back. They ALREADY have your money - why should they!

Legitimate businesses charge a commission after the service, but these companies all ask for a large upfront payment.

Here are some warnings signs with these kinds of companies:

1) Did you get an unsolicited sales call or mailing or email from them?

2) Do they say that they already have a renter/buyer for your timeshare? (Or an established market like people attending conventions.)

3) Do they claim that they can get your money back from another scammer?

4) Do they want you to pay hundreds/thousands of dollars for a title search, or transfer fees, or taxes, or a closing fee, or appraisal, or ANY large fee, UPFRONT?

5) Are they offering to rent/sell it for far more than the market value?

6) Do they want you to pay a large up front fee that supposedly you will get back?

7) Do they want your credit card number over the phone?

If you answer yes to any of these questions, then this is the usual scenario:

Once you pay the fee and receive the contract, you discover that the company has only promised to advertise your resort, not to rent/sell it, and they don't mention having a renter/buyer in the contract.

Then, you won't hear anything from them for a long time, and when you contact them, they will tell you that the renter/buyer backed out, but they will advertise your timeshare on their over-priced website.

Finally, when you try to get your money back, they will point out that you signed a contract, and it's only for advertising.

When you try to challenge it with your credit card company, they will tell you that you only had 60 days to dispute the charge, and that it's too late to do anything.

This is a bitter pill to swallow, but right now, most timeshares are selling for 0-20% of the original retail price. It's not a good time to sell a timeshare.

To see what your timeshare is really worth on the current resale market:

1) Register with ebay
2) Sign in
3) Search for your resort by exact name
4) From the menu on the left click "completed listings"
5) The next page will show you current selling prices

(Be sure you look at the completed listings - those are actually SELLING prices - you will find asking prices all over the place, but what really counts is what they actually sold for.)

baitcaster54 · Jan 26, 2012

It was for title search, South Carolina Documentry stamp, writing a letter to the resort Etc. Of course the first thing I read in TUG was to not send money upfront!

DeniseM · Jan 26, 2012

baitcaster54 said:
It was for title search, South Carolina Documentry stamp, writing a letter to the resort Etc. Of course the first thing I read in TUG was to not send money upfront!

It's bogus - a full service closing should cost no more than $400 or so, and they should take the fees out of the proceeds.

Gophesjo · Jan 26, 2012

Like I said - call the AG, but of Delaware and SC, too. Put these bleeps behind bars where they will meet others like them who have already been convicted.

T_R_Oglodyte · Jan 26, 2012

baitcaster54 said:
Is anyone familiar with a company called RH Financial Holding Inc in Wilmington Del. They have contacted me for a add I have saying they have a buyer for my property. They say they have received the down payment and closing cost from the buyer. They want me to wire transfer a sum greater than 2k to the R H Revenue office in Orlando FL. They have emailed me a cotract with buyers name and address. It seems on the up and up but also feels like a scam.

compare the modus operandi of your contact with the description in this summary? Count up the similarities.

Investigation by Florida Attorney General’s Office Leads to 15-Year Federal Prison Sentence for Woman who Committed Timeshare Resale Fraud

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. –Attorney General Pam Bondi announced that Jennifer Kirk was sentenced yesterday to 188 months in federal prison for conspiracy to commit fraud and wire fraud. Kirk, now a resident of Illinois, was operating a timeshare resale scam that stole $30 million from more than 22,000 victims across the country. Kirk owned and operated Universal Marketing Solutions, which later became Creative Vacation Solutions, from October 2007 until December 2009 when the Florida Attorney General's Office shut these companies down. The companies were located in and operated out of Palm Beach County.

...

According to the civil complaint, which was filed in December 2009, Kirk employed telemarketers who placed cold calls to timeshare owners and then falsely represented that their company had actual buyers for the owners’ timeshare property. Her telemarketers then solicited advanced fees of up to several thousand dollars from each victim in purported closing costs that they promised would be refunded to the owner once the closing on the property occurred.

According to the complaint, despite collecting fees from approximately $1,200 to $3,000 from each of the 22,000 victims, her companies never sold a single timeshare unit. The complaint also alleged that the defendant and her co-conspirators pocketed the closing costs.

...

To date, 11 individuals have been charged in connection with the operation of Creative Vacation Solutions and Universal Marketing Solutions. The federal investigation is continuing into those timeshare resale scams. The United States Postal Inspection Service assisted with the investigation and the United States Attorney’s Office of the Southern District of Illinois prosecuted the case.

To file a complaint with the Florida Attorney General's Office, please visit www.MyFloridaLegal.com or contact the Attorney General’s Office fraud hotline at 866-966-7226.

baitcaster54 · Jan 27, 2012

Selling a Timeshare

Thanks to all for your response. I have contacted the Delaware AG office and they told me that the address for R H Financial Holding at 1209 Orange St. is only a drop box. They have had complaints but this company was operating under another name before but the lady at the State AG was answering my questions with the question like " Were the buyers Mr. James and Debra Smith in North Carolina?" The AG said that this was definately a scam. So sellers beware.
Thank you all,
Baitcaster54

Gophesjo · Jan 27, 2012

You are welcome - bless you for calling the AG! I hope they are able to get these guys.

Carolinian · Jan 28, 2012

baitcaster54 said:
It was for title search, South Carolina Documentry stamp, writing a letter to the resort Etc. Of course the first thing I read in TUG was to not send money upfront!

A title search is a buyer's expense, not a seller's expense. Documentary stamps are a very small amount and near the end of the process, and the letter to the resort is also a buyer's expense and a small amount of money.

This is wire fraud. The buyer is bogus. It would be nice to get law enforcement involved and nab the crooks.

refjoey · Jan 30, 2012

omg, i just got the same call today. same company, dave swartz he said his name was..what a joke..i fugured i would google the company and this is what i found(this site), he said they are on the online business bureau when i asked him..it unbelievable these people prey on decent citizens..[********]

timeos2 · Jan 30, 2012

refjoey said:
omg, i just got the same call today. same company, dave swartz he said his name was..what a joke..i fugured i would google the company and this is what i found(this site), he said they are on the online business bureau when i asked him..it unbelievable these people prey on decent citizens..[********]

Thanks for letting us know our campaign to thwart these operations is having at least some effect. The more people are good enough to post the names & warnings the more likely the next potential victim will find a warning as you did when they search.

Anyone that cold calls YOU with a "buyer" for your timeshare is 99.99% likely to be looking for upfront money from you and has no buyer. Best to blow them all off & report them as the the scam artists they tend to be.

hobkjoe · Jan 31, 2012

Timeshare Seller

I have not heard of that company, but I was recently contacted by a company out of Richmond, Virginia. The gent asked if I wanted to sell my timeshare in PV, Mexico. He said they were looking for sellers. He gave me an offer that sounded very good. He said there were no upfront charges and his company would not be paid the 5% commission until I am paid for the timeshare. The buyer is also to pay the selling company 5%. He said there were no hidden charges involved.

RX8 · Jan 31, 2012

hobkjoe said:
I have not heard of that company, but I was recently contacted by a company out of Richmond, Virginia. The gent asked if I wanted to sell my timeshare in PV, Mexico. He said they were looking for sellers. He gave me an offer that sounded very good. He said there were no upfront charges and his company would not be paid the 5% commission until I am paid for the timeshare. The buyer is also to pay the selling company 5%. He said there were no hidden charges involved.

You don't say the name of this "other company" in Virginia that contacted you but here is how it will go down. They call you and are very nice on the phone. They provide you with a price that "sounds good" i.e. more than it is worth. They tell you no upfront fee. Now you are starting to think about how you are going to spend this big sum of money you are about to receive when BAM!

Oops, they forgot to tell you about the Mexican taxes, government fees, photocopying fees, flour tax, etc... It doesn't matter what they call it - they tell you your check is WAITING for you but they can't send it to you until you send them money. If you do send the money, you won't hear from them again.

hobkjoe · Feb 1, 2012

I was doing more checking on this company, Madison and Weiss. On Zillow, I could not see any building with the same address provided by the agent. The telephone number, according to BBB sources advise that it is a mobile phone. The agent also mentioned the name of the broker (Executive Properties) that, according to the salesman at the Sheraton in PV, would rent out our unit. That was a joke. The guy on the phone from EP said, "Oh yeah, you have to pay us $800 so we can get busy on renting out your unit."

arniehusd · Feb 9, 2012

RH Financial Cold Call

I received a cold call from this company, too. They sent me a Sales Agreement with the name and address (PO Box) of a buyer that allegedly accepted an offer they got from me on the cold call. They want over $2,000 for title searches, etc if/when I sign the contract.

Has anyone else done business with this company? I'm very concerned about sending a bank transfer (same as cash) up front. They will not take it through PayPal or a credit card or any other means that might give me some secuity.

DeniseM · Feb 9, 2012

arniehusd said:
I received a cold call from this company, too. They sent me a Sales Agreement with the name and address (PO Box) of a buyer that allegedly accepted an offer they got from me on the cold call. They want over $2,000 for title searches, etc if/when I sign the contract.

Has anyone else done business with this company? I'm very concerned about sending a bank transfer (same as cash) up front. They will not take it through PayPal or a credit card or any other means that might give me some secuity.

Have you read the other posts in this thread?

IT'S A SCAM!

tyketwo · Feb 9, 2012

I received a so called offer from the Elite Liberty Properties of Charlotte, North
Carolina, for my Mayan Palace TS in Sea Garden, Mazatalan today for a sum
which they say they have a buyer ready and qualified, willing and able to
complete the transaction. They only want the 8% commission, but I have to take care of the transfer fee, etc. They claim no up front money, but I am
sure this is some kind of a scam, which I have no intention of entering into.
Has anyone been contacted by this Co. ? Would be interested if anyone has
had contact with this outfit. Their offer is $5000 more than a previous offer
I had from an outfit in California. I am interested in getting rid of this TS, but
as yet have not pursued any means.

DeniseM · Feb 9, 2012

Different name - same old story. Don't send money to an upfront fee company, unless you are prepared to lose all of it! :doh:

Passepartout · Feb 9, 2012

Added to Denise's: They will take your money and you'll still have the TS.

Jim

tyketwo · Feb 10, 2012

Elite Liberty Properties

I'm sure this is a boiler room affair, as I received another call 5 minutes
later, and no one was on the phone, but I could hear in the back ground
several people talking on phones to what I assumed were TS owners.

RX8 · Feb 10, 2012

tyketwo said:
I'm sure this is a boiler room affair, as I received another call 5 minutes
later, and no one was on the phone, but I could hear in the back ground
several people talking on phones to what I assumed were TS owners.

There is absolutely ZERO info on the web for anything called Elite Liberty Properties. They are not legit.

LannyPC · Feb 10, 2012

tyketwo said:
for my Mayan Palace TS in Sea Garden, Mazatalan .... I am interested in getting rid of this TS, but
as yet have not pursued any means.

Timeshares in Mexico are virtually worthless. You may have to simply give it away. If you feel that that is the best option for you right now, use the free giveaway method here on TUG:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132509

tyketwo · Feb 10, 2012

RX8 said:
There is absolutely ZERO info on the web for anything called Elite Liberty Properties. They are not legit.

I'm not defending them, but check out www.elitelibertyproperties.com
they are on the web with quite an impressive layout.

T_R_Oglodyte · Feb 11, 2012

tyketwo said:
I'm not defending them, but check out www.elitelibertyproperties.com
they are on the web with quite an impressive layout.

Harldy "impressive". Very basic web design. Riddled with grammatical errors and typos. The overall level of content is about what any reasonably intelligent 13-year old could produce, ignoring the errors in spelling and grammar.

Selling a Timeshare [Cold Call - RH Financial Holding Inc]

baitcaster54

Gophesjo

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

DeniseM

baitcaster54

DeniseM

Gophesjo

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

T_R_Oglodyte

baitcaster54

Gophesjo

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

Carolinian

refjoey

timeos2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie

hobkjoe

RX8

Timeshare Scam Investigator

hobkjoe

arniehusd

DeniseM

tyketwo

DeniseM

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

tyketwo

RX8

Timeshare Scam Investigator

LannyPC

tyketwo

T_R_Oglodyte