Another 800 lb gorilla...

Does anyone else feel like anytime one of us goes on another timeshare tour or update for cash or points or tickets or dinners or whatever, we are actually perpetuating the sales system that we all hate so much? I am reminded of Bertold Brecht's play (Mother Courage, maybe??) about the camp followers who despised - but also perpetuated - war by selling to the army.

Haven't been on one in two years and my vacations are much more peaceful and enjoyable.

Nah.

Gophesjo said:

Does anyone else feel like anytime one of us goes on another timeshare tour or update for cash or points or tickets or dinners or whatever, we are actually perpetuating the sales system that we all hate so much?

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The way I think of it, the more freebies the timeshare sellers have to fork over to non-buyers, the greater the chance that maybe someday the timeshare companies might start to question their outmoded & outdated biz model based on razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo & high-pressure salesmanship.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

I think as long as the salesmen have hope they will keep trying and keep trampling down the unlucky.

I've never been to one. Never will either.

You can only help one of your luckless brothers by trampling down a dozen others.
– Bertolt Brecht

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Yessa!

ampaholic said:

I've never been to one.

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Likewise. There aren't enough free tickets, coupons or dinners (or all of them collectively combined) on Earth to get to me to squander one moment of my valuable time listening to these types of deceitful parasites.

Add me to the "never have; never will" list.

I was in North Myrtle

I was in North Myrtle and just wanted to see one of the units at Towers on the Grove, so I stopped at the Wyndham booth at Tanger Outlet Malls. I asked if I could see a unit without having to take the tour, as I will never pay developer prices, and would only buy resale. She called the office and they said, "No, he'll have to take the tour."

She offered me show tickets and $150.00 to take the tour, cuz she needed a sale. I realized the cost of the tickets, the $150.00 cash, her commission and the sales person's commission, ad nauseum, would all have to come out of the down payment some starry eyed purchaser would make after listening to the hype, and I just couldn't do it. I told her why I couldn't do it, and walked away saying, "remember, I just wanted to see what one of the units looks like."

I often travel with a friend who has made several developer purchases. Rather than thinking that Wyndham has taken advantage of her, she thinks that I am the one cheating her, when I buy resale....I dont get it, but there it is; and I think that there are a lot of folks just like her.

She goes to every presentation and comes back with all sorts of new information (that I already know from my time here on TUG) and usually a $100 Amex card. So the question is, should I sleep in, or go to the presentations myself for the $100

The ops question is; Will I be actually perpetuating the sales system that we all hate so much?

First I dont really hate it...I dont use it; but I dont hate it
and Second...I agree with Alan..The more $100 Amex cards they give out, without a sale, the sooner that they will re-examine their sales model

ronparise said:

-snip-

...I agree with Alan..The more $100 Amex cards they give out, without a sale, the sooner that they will re-examine their sales model

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It's just that between the giving out of "your" $100 Amex card and the marketing dept. re-examining their sales model - a lot of people will get hurt.

Just my $.002

I guess what I'm trying to express is that:

If at their presentation their are only 100 empty seats and they are stuck for the two hours playing solitaire with the $100 Amex cards - THEN they will start re-considering their marketing model.

Just like a TV advertiser re-considers when a shows ratings drop out the bottom.

theo said:

Likewise. There aren't enough free tickets, coupons or dinners (or all of them collectively combined) on Earth to get to me to squander one moment of my valuable time listening to these types of deceitful parasites.

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I toured Marriott Kauai Lagoons because I wanted to see the unit. The salesman was so annoying that I will likely never take another timeshare tour. Fortunately, he figured out pretty quick that I wasn't going to buy and my tour was only 30 minutes.

I also feel that my vacation time is more valuable than any of their freebies.

No more sales tours!

ampaholic said:

I guess what I'm trying to express is that:

If at their presentation their are only 100 empty seats and they are stuck for the two hours playing solitaire with the $100 Amex cards - THEN they will start re-considering their marketing model.

Just like a TV advertiser re-considers when a shows ratings drop out the bottom.

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Im sure you are right, but shouldnt they also reconsider if they fill all the seats, give out $10000 in gift cards, and still make no sales.

They are at the point now where over 50% of their sales goes directly to marketing...can it go much higher?

More Tours & More Headhunters & More Freebies? Or Cutbacks In Bad Times?

ronparise said:

Im sure you are right, but shouldnt they also reconsider if they fill all the seats, give out $10000 in gift cards, and still make no sales.

They are at the point now where over 50% of their sales goes directly to marketing...can it go much higher?

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So have the timeshare sellers doubled down on their customary freebie-based razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo ?

Or have they trimmed back the freebies & stopped beating the bushes for timeshare tour candidates ?

Full Disclosure: We had a half-dozen or so chance encounters with Grandview & Wyndham timeshare tour headhunters on duty in various Las Vegas casino hotels when we were out there on vacation recently. We said No Thanks to all of'm, although we did succumb to the entreaties of a tour sign-up guy at Grandview, where we were staying on RCI Last Call.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

ronparise said:

Im sure you are right, but shouldnt they also reconsider if they fill all the seats, give out $10000 in gift cards, and still make no sales.

They are at the point now where over 50% of their sales goes directly to marketing...can it go much higher?

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I am almost certain that if they filled all 100 seats and gave all 100 rubes the free amex card that they will at least break even.

Or, let me put it another way - have you ever known a group of 100 plain old average people to all do the sensible thing?

timeshare tours

timeshare tours are a numbers game. they resorts know that only 1 out of 50 may buy a week. shoot at bonnet creek in july '10 the salesman told me they sell 1 out of 4 they tour.. I wanted to first, puke and second, call "BS" on it but was trying to get out of the place. but did get to see the 4 bed presidential unit.. man that was nice for sure..

When i lived in Myrtle Beach in the early '80's I did both OPC (off property contacts) and sales for timeshare. doing OPC work we would walk along the beach looking for married couples with kids that were 9 or so and stop to ask them some questions on behalf of the resort. then we would invite them to take a tour of the resort just to check it out so the next time they visited it might be a place they would like to stay.. we offered them 100 silver dollars and in the early '80's that was big money for a tour.

we got $20 bucks for every person that toured buy or not, and my cousin who was running the OPC program got $30 bucks, (he paid me more than the others they got $10-15 depending on volume.) On a good day you would talk to 20-30 folks and get 10 or so to tour in the next day or two. we made some good money and had a killer tan, plus after working we would go to the bars and get free drinks from our neighbors that lived in the apt complex and was the bartender..

man them was the days of sun, fun, and chicks.. :whoopie:

When I exchanged into Barbados, I was interested in seeing The Crane resort, and noticed they were advertising in tourist publications that they were no longer offering incentives for timeshare sales tours, and instead had cut their prices almost in half to use that as the incentive instead of tickets, dinner vouchers, etc. So I drove my rental car out there. I did not have to listen to the hype, got a tour of the new units and was shown the prices. Quick, easy, and no high pressure. They said their sales had actually improved since they went to the new system. I wonder if this system is still working, and if so why others have not also adopted it. I have no qualms about taking that type of tour at all.

I read once at The Timeshare Beat that One Napoli Way resort in Hawaii uses the same sales approach.

salesman told me they sell 1 out of 4 they tour.

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It's not that far off. I believe the industry-wide conversion number is 15%, or one in every 6-7 tours. I would not be surprised to hear that Bonnet does better than average.

bnoble said:

It's not that far off. I believe the industry-wide conversion number is 15%, or one in every 6-7 tours. I would not be surprised to hear that Bonnet does better than average.

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I would not be surprised either. Last year when I was contemplating buying an HGVC unit in Vegas, I was doing my due diligence and I was searching through the deed records with HGVC as the grantee at the approximate date of the original purchase.

There were so many deeds recorded on a daily basis - an average of 34 per DAY, I considered applying for a job there selling timeshares.

elaine

bnoble said:

It's not that far off. I believe the industry-wide conversion number is 15%, or one in every 6-7 tours. I would not be surprised to hear that Bonnet does better than average.

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Does that factor in the number of rescinded purchases?

bnoble said:

It's not that far off. I believe the industry-wide conversion number is 15%, or one in every 6-7 tours. I would not be surprised to hear that Bonnet does better than average.

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Wow! More people need to find TUG.

You Typed A Mouthful.

LannyPC said:

Wow! More people need to find TUG.

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They will -- some of'm.

Most, unfortunately, won't catch on till after the rescission period is over.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Did the tours up until a couple of years ago. No more. And no, I believe there is enough new fodder for the machines to keep it going perpetually.

I rather enjoy the presentations...

I rather enjoy the presentations...however....

We have our ground rules set before we go in:
1. We tell them upfront that we are not interested and that we will only be there for a preset amount of time we committed to during the appointment setup. "Dude, we have an appointment at (convenient time about 1 1/2 hours out) that we cannot miss."
2. A friendly "No" is still a no.
3. We do not carry any credit cards with us during the presentation.
4. We enjoy the "banter" of the sales presentation, we like to count how many times they mislead us, and laugh about it later - sometimes we tell the sales guy he is wrong, and that; with the right sales guy can be fun and entertaining.
5. At the appointed time - we simply say, "Thank you for your time, we need to go now, our gifts please." We usually don't have too much of a problem...maybe a couple minutes of whining from the sales guy, but they usually let us go. For us the key has been, be nice but firm.

But the most important thing is: we enjoy ourselves, and we enjoy the sales folks. Most of them are guys just trying to put food on the table like the rest of us. Like it has already been said - it is a numbers game.