Hilton Head Summer 2012 reservations

TUGgers,

I'm repeating a post from different thread (below). I have three different questions, and I hope TUGgers will report their experience:

1) If you own in HHI and book a Summer 2012 reservation, was it as easy/simple as in previous years?

2) If you've requested a trade via II into Hilton Head for Summer 2012, can you repor when a successful trade came thru (and what you used in trade)?

3) If you book a reservation with DC points, was there alot of inventory available, or was availability tight?

The purpose of the thread is that there is little inventory in HHI (specifically Barony/Surfwatch/Grand Ocean) in the Trust and I'm curious how accessible these properties are to owners/traders/points users.

Thanks very much!

Greg



This is related to a topic from a different thread .

GregT said:

Terry, thanks for bringing this point up -- I speculated in an earlier thread that Marriott was finding a way to stock its inventory.

I still believe this -- I'm not sure how they are doing it (either via a "jump the line" at 13 months with II, or via simply holding back inventory in anticipating future MRP redemptions).

Can I ask posters who have requested Hilton Head for Summer 2012 (Barony/SurfWatch/Grand Ocean) to post on their progress? My theory is that we will find inventory in DClub (despite a lack of depth in the Trust) but that it will take several months to get an II confirmation.

That would be consistent with the pattern for my recent Aruba Ocean Club trade -- there was inventory in the DClub (despite no Trust weeks) but I didn't get my Studio confirmation until 10 months prior to check-in (suggesting some action/manipulation by Marriott to get that inventory).

I'm curious to know if the pattern repeats for Summer 2012 Hilton Head reservations. Thanks very much!

Best,

Greg

Click to expand...

I own at Surfwatch, but it is too early to book for summer 2012 - its barely 13 months out from the beginning of next summer

- David

called at 9

I called exactly at 9 and request two consecutive weeks for Friday, Saturday or Sunday. By the time the representative got to making it there was no more Saturday check-ins only Friday and Sunday. Now please note that I used the 13 month rule and was booking the last two weeks of Gold at MGO which II considers to be the first two weeks of the high season at HHI for demand. I then request summer weeks, PA summer, to trade back in. I am very flexible in my request for any two weeks in a row from late June to very late August and have been fortunate in the past. The Past is not a predictor of future gains as they say though I will try again this year. My exchanges have come in anywhere from within days of depositing to as late as early winter for the coming year.

I am kind of glad that we discovered that Hilton Head Island isn't someplace that we would want to go back to any time soon. We won't be having to compete with anyone for those coveted weeks. I am sure that others are happy too as they will have one less owner in there competing with them.

GregT said:

TUGgers,

I'm repeating a post from different thread (below). I have three different questions, and I hope TUGgers will report their experience:

1) If you own in HHI and book a Summer 2012 reservation, was it as easy/simple as in previous years?

2) If you've requested a trade via II into Hilton Head for Summer 2012, can you repor when a successful trade came thru (and what you used in trade)?

3) If you book a reservation with DC points, was there alot of inventory available, or was availability tight?

The purpose of the thread is that there is little inventory in HHI (specifically Barony/Surfwatch/Grand Ocean) in the Trust and I'm curious how accessible these properties are to owners/traders/points users.

Thanks very much!

Greg



This is related to a topic from a different thread .

Click to expand...

We own a platinum week at Surfwatch. I've booked it for July 4th week annually since the resort opened. I've always gotten it. I'll let you know in a few weeks how 2012 plays out.

All,

I called DClub out of curiousity and they have space in Barony Beach and SurfWatch June 23 -- Monarch had space June 30, but not BB, SW, or GO. The June 23rd space wasn't very deep, ie, they only had one view category available (OF at Barony Beach and GV at SurfWatch).

I'm still curious where these weeks came from that are in DClub inventory (the Trust has very few weeks at these properties):

Possible sources:

1) Interval International (and some owner made reservations 13 months out and deposited into II, and Marriott has created an ability to get the deposit, either by its own trade requests, or some contractual arrangement with II)
2) Weeks enrolled by owners and redeemed for points at this early date
3) Anticipated MRP redemptions (even though the owners have until Dec 31, 2011 to redeem for MRP points)

It remains puzzling to me what the source of the inventory is -- and when Marriott loads the inventory. DClub doesn't appear to load right at 13 months out, it appears to need 7-10 days before it loads. This is an oddity because if the source was #2 or #3 above, it wouldn't be necessary to wait 7-10 days, however this is speculation (it's all speculation, really!).

Please do report if any of your II searches hit, as well as your success rate in making traditional reservations. I'm still curious if anyone will report successful II trades early on (11/12/13 months out) or if it is going to be more like 10 months from check-in date.

Best,

Greg

I booked three consecutive weeks - Fri-Fri Barony 5/18 (Gold), SurfWatch 5/25 (Gold) and 6/1 (Plat) - using the 13-mo window, but I didn't call until the second day, 5/19. Last year and the year before I booked the same three weeks right when the window opened, a couple years before those I wasn't able to get a three-week combo at all.

The revised Reservation Procedures docs still have me a little bit nervous about canceling any of these 2012 reservations but I probably will take a chance on converting at least one to DC Points. Or at least, I'll take the chance if nobody reports on TUG that they've had all of their Use Year reservations canceled when they tried to cancel something booked using the 13-mos window.

Greg, I'm confused by your comment, "the Trust is empty." After the last Trust conveyances I thought it was determined that only Custom House, Streamside and Mountain Valley Lodge didn't have Weeks in the Trust. Or are you saying that there are no Hilton Head Plat season Weeks in the Trust?

SueDonJ said:

Greg, I'm confused by your comment, "the Trust is empty." After the last Trust conveyances I thought it was determined that only Custom House, Streamside and Mountain Valley Lodge didn't have Weeks in the Trust. Or are you saying that there are no Hilton Head Plat season Weeks in the Trust?

Click to expand...

Sue,

Sorry about that (and I've edited my post to try and be more clear). Although there are some weeks for each of these properties in the Trust, there are very very few weeks in the Trust. As an example, between these three properties, there are a total of 400K points (contrast with ~10 million at each of Ko Olina, TimberLodge and Newport Coast). 400K points might equate to 100 weeks in total that are in the Trust for Barony/SurfWatch/Grand Ocean.

So there just aren't many weeks that could possibly be the source of the Hilton Head summer weeks. This is one of the reasons I'm curious about how long it will take to fill the II trade requests for Terry (thinze3) and others.

I hope that helps! (and Go Bruins!)

Best,

Greg

Good morning...

Locked and loaded for 6 nites, 3 bedroom OV at Surf Watch... Memorial Day weekend 2012...

The source of availability comes from 25% of LegAcy owners that convert to MR points... That number is staggering and I believe will decrease as owners discover these points don't go as far as they used to. For example,as stated on a different thread those 25k FF miles trips are hard to find....

puckmanfl said:

The source of availability comes from 25% of LegAcy owners that convert to MR points....

Click to expand...

Puck,

This is probably the case (but the lack of inventory in II in my Aruba experiment is a puzzling side note) -- but what is so interesting is that it appears Marriott is anticipating those (future 2012) 25% MRP redemptions (since the week owner has until December 31, 2011 to actually redeem the 2012 week for MRP points).

But DClub needs that inventory today because people want to book 12/13 months in advance.....so, DClub basically says, over the next X months, 25% of the 2012 weeks will be redeemed for MR points, but because we need the 2012 inventory today, we'll assume the future redemption of the 2012 weeks and put the related 2012 weeks in DClub now (Instead of waiting until the owner actually redeems their 2012 week for MRPs).

That's interesting, and brilliant (and I mean that begrudgingly).

Best to all,

Greg

GregT said:

Puck,

This is probably the case -- but what is so interesting is that it appears Marriott is anticipating those (future 2012) 25% MRP redemptions (since the week owner has until December 31, 2011 to actually redeem the 2012 week for MRP points).

But DClub needs that inventory today because people want to book 12/13 months in advance.....so, DClub basically says, over the next X months, 25% of the 2012 weeks will be redeemed for MR points, but because we need the 2012 inventory today, we'll assume the future redemption of the 2012 weeks and put the related 2012 weeks in DClub now (Instead of waiting until the owner actually redeems their 2012 week for MRPs).

That's interesting, and brilliant (and I mean that begrudgingly).

Best to all,

Greg

Click to expand...

If I'm remembering correctly, the governing docs have always given Marriott the right to usage based on anticipatory expectations. For example, prior to the DC rollout rentals through marriott.com could have come from that inventory.

Could another possible pool be the unpaid MF's? I know Marriott doesn't charge them more than a year out, but if they know that MF's are unpaid for 2011 then can't they assume 2012 availability?

GregT,

I reserved a July 7th Barony week for 2012 without any problems.

Joyce

Good evening....

MVCD knew this was coming for a few years. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that they kept many of the platinum weeks at the primo joints for this reason. Before the DC rollout, they were rented on Marriott.com at quite a profit over MF.


The worst nightmare is a bunch of irate new Trust owners finding they can't snag a reservation after forking over more than $9/pt. For an untested product. MVCD will use every legal tactic to ensure inventory. This is one reason I enrolled, I want to be on the winning team....

AMJ said:

GregT,

I reserved a July 7th Barony week for 2012 without any problems.

Joyce

Click to expand...

How did you book a July 7th week for 2012 without reserving consecutive or concurrent weeks? The 12 month window does not open for a few weeks for that date!!!! In fact the 13 month window opens on June 6th!

ilene13,

I have a fixed Harbour Point week 26 so I was able to reserve a July 7th Barony week and a July 14th OceanWatch week using the 13 month reservation. My Harbour Point week is for June 30th so I booked my weeks May 30th.

Joyce

On 5/30 I reserved SurfWatch for weeks of 6/30 and 7/7 no problem. Called at 9:00 am, rep answered within about 3 min., and was done by 9:05. Fri/Sat/Sun check in days were all available.

AMJ said:

ilene13,

I have a fixed Harbour Point week 26 so I was able to reserve a July 7th Barony week and a July 14th OceanWatch week using the 13 month reservation. My Harbour Point week is for June 30th so I booked my weeks May 30th.

Joyce

Click to expand...

That now makes sense. We used to own week 27 at Harbour Pointe. We sold it about 15 years ago. We bought it from the original developer.

SueDonJ said:

If I'm remembering correctly, the governing docs have always given Marriott the right to usage based on anticipatory expectations. For example, prior to the DC rollout rentals through marriott.com could have come from that inventory.

Could another possible pool be the unpaid MF's? I know Marriott doesn't charge them more than a year out, but if they know that MF's are unpaid for 2011 then can't they assume 2012 availability?

Click to expand...

Sue, this is an excellent point, and makes sense -- they must be using the historical redemption patterns to guesstimate how many weeks they can comfortably hold back (and therefore place in DClub inventory). Again, its bold and brilliant (saying it begrudgingly). As long as home resort owners are still able to get their reservations when they call (and it appears that they are) then there is no one to object to the smaller-pool of weeks available to reserve?

puckmanfl said:

Good evening....
The worst nightmare is a bunch of irate new Trust owners finding they can't snag a reservation after forking over more than $9/pt. For an untested product. MVCD will use every legal tactic to ensure inventory.

Click to expand...

Puck, I totally agree here -- Marriott will do everything possible to make sure they have the inventory to make sure that they can fulfill reservation requests with points. And the inventory will become more robust over time as more and more weeks owners redeem their weeks for points.

This was one of the critical, fundamental errors that I made in my assessment of the system. I believed that they needed us (the rightful owners of the actual weeks) to participate in some manner to provide the inventory needed to book reservations. But they've found work-arounds to fill the inventory needs that doesn't require our active involvement, and therefore the voluntary participation of the existing ownership is not needed. Accordingly they can skim us instead of needing to entice us.

Interesting -- and brilliant (cynically/begrudgingly).

I must admit, the design of the system is impressively well thought out (c/b -- but not so hot for customer loyalty).

I remain curious if Hilton Head exchangers like Terry (thinze3) get their trades anytime soon -- I would assume that some of the Hilton Head owners are depositing their weeks into II, and we should start to hear about matching trade requests into HHI by TUGgers.

I am still hypothesizing that those early II deposits are also making their back into DClub inventory, but that it still to be proven.

Best to all -- and thanks for the updates on the Hilton Head results.

Greg

I believed that they needed us (the rightful owners of the actual weeks) to participate in some manner to provide the inventory needed to book reservations. But they've found work-arounds to fill the inventory needs that doesn't require our active involvement, and therefore the voluntary participation of the existing ownership is not needed. Accordingly they can skim us instead of needing to entice us.

Click to expand...

Greg, you are being too hard on yourself. I do not believe you were entirely in error as regards needing 'us' to provide exchange company inventory for DC. That's why they make it attractive to enroll our weeks, which end up in the MAR corporate II account.

The theory that makes sense to me about the terms offered legacies is that MAR is willing to pay for a first look at legacy weeks deposited into the corporate II account for purposes of satisfying DC exchange demand. They pay by making it attractive from a fee perspective for exchangers to enroll - it makes no sense at all to join if you don't exchange and they can't get at your week if you don't exchange.

If MAR could get all the inventory they needed from MRP electors, they wouldn't be providing those fee discounts to legacy owner enrollees. Altruism is not MAR's strong suit.

* * *

As regards MRP elections:

1. The universe of owners electing MRP is likely to be skewed away from platinum weeks in high demand resorts towards bronze/mud weeks. I would doubt that HHI platinum summer weeks frequently are exchanged for MRP.

2. Assuming 20+% is the historical mark for MRP elections, if MAR anticipates an election rate several standard deviations less than the historical levels, they have a high level of statistical certainty that these will in fact become available. My guess is that the MRP election rate is fairly stable with minimal standard deviations.

3. When an owner elects MRP, MAR gets to pick the week associated with that election - and you can be sure they select the best that the owner who elected MRP could get.

4. The universe of MF defaulters and mortgage defaulters also is probably skewed towards non platinum weeks. Owners default when they perceive paying the MF makes no sense given the value of the occupancy, the ownership interests are unsaleable, and their credit is already so badly whacked another black mark makes no difference.

I just don't believe those sources provide all the inventory of prime weeks DClub needs. There's only one other place they can come from as regards sold out resorts. You and me.

* * *

The worst nightmare is a bunch of irate new Trust owners finding they can't snag a reservation after forking over more than $9/pt. For an untested product. MVCD will use every legal tactic to ensure inventory.

Click to expand...

puck is absolutely correct.

All,

I'm popping this thread up again --

I'm curious if any TUGgers have been successful in trading via II into Hilton Head for Summer 2012?

Related question -- have any TUGgers booked reservations in Hilton Head and deposited them for trade in II?

On July 6th of this week, I found Grand Ocean weeks available in DClub for July 6-13 and July 15-22. Last month, I'd found June 23-June 30, and June 29-July 6 reservations available.

These could be from any of the usual sources we've discussed, but I'm also curious if, coincidentially, some TUGger reserved those weeks and deposited them into II. I still believe Marriott has some first trade right/ability to the early II deposits.

Please advise and thanks!

Best,

Greg


Note: separately, I have a trade request into MOC for June 23-June 30, 2012 -- looking for a MOC Studio and offering a MOC Studio, so like for like (and with the home resort trade-back-in preference that MOC has). Still no matches....and yes, I know its early....but......

I booked my 3 bedroom at Surfwatch for July 1-8, 2012 without any problem.

Booked the week we own at Surfwatch without any problems and got the exact week we wanted (was one day late booking but got it with no problems on the web site).

The interesting thing was when we decided to do a trade to get aanother week at Surfwatch. Spoke with the phone guy at the DC. I asked would it be better to do a straight week for week trade or exchange for DC points and then trade. His response was "do the points and you will get your trade much faster- those fill very quickly". Then I asked if what I wanted was available (Surfwatch) and he filled it immediately from the points. He had garden view and ocean vista but not oceanside. It does seem that there is some mechanism for Marriott to get these weeks to fill DC club reservations. He also said that availability is often better at 10 months out because folks have then started trading weeks for MRP's and the weeks "become available for DC points".

tlwmkw

I booked the July 7-14 2012 week at SW with no issues.

Booked GO for June 23 on line with no problems 12 months out.

Booked MGO for July 8th online (12 months out). Slow web, but at 2 minutes past the hour it showed only Friday or Sunday check-in (no Saturday)... so I grabbed the Sunday.