Crystal Shores

Has anyone been able to exchange into this resort who is not an owner there? I hardly never see this resort on the sightings board, either. I thought this reosrt was huge and that sales weren't going so well. I'd like to know if this resort is an option for me. I own a platinum week at Marriott's Willowridge. I know that is not the most elite resort but it pulls everything else in Marriott, even 3 bedroom Frenchmen cove and Aruba. Why not this resort?

Not a big issue or loss for me but Crystal Shores looks very nice. I'd like to go there next summer or spring, maybe.

In my oppinion, this resort should be no harder to book than say summer at NCV. What is it I do not realize about this resort that makes it differnt than all the other Marriotts. I'm a new owner so maybe I am asking something that is common knowledge to most other owners, but...

Thanks.

-Jim

I believe II places a higher quality filter on Crystal Shores than NCV. Searching with a Ko'Olina platinum week pulls Crystal Shores but I do not obtain the same results searching with a Grande Vista platinum week. Even with the Ko'Olina week, I have to search using the entire two bedroom and not the one bedroom portion of the lockoff.

I assume that you're trying to get Crystal Shores through an II exchange.

Sighting of Crystal Shores in II would only happen when weeks are deposited into II by Crystal Shores owners AND those weeks are not matched up with ongoing search requests. Exchanges (especially during high-demand times) are probably going primarily to owners of other high-end Marriott weeks who put in requests up to 24 months out.

When Marriott sold weeks at Crystal Shores, they were very pricey. Chances are that most of those weeks were bought for use, not for trading. Now the unsold inventory is in the MVC Trust.

In comparison, NCV is a huge, fairly mature resort with many weeks owned by people who have been owners for up to a decade. Even so, II exchanges for summer weeks tend to go to ongoing searches. I don't recall ever seeing a summer week just sitting in II, although I assume there have been some rare cases.

Thanks, everyone. Great information for me.

So, Marriott doesn't make deposits into II for this resort? I though Marriott made bulk deposits (mini bulk deposits at least) for all of their resorts, but there is a lot about Marriott I do not know.

Beside my Marriott Willowridge week, I own WM points, so I may have to use WM to pull this resort. Just not sure if it is a good place to visit for a family summer vacation, compared to say Ocean Point or any of the Marriotts in the Carolinas for that matter.

I actually saw an August 2011 week last October when searching with an old Harborside deposit. I almost took it but decided to hold out for Oceanwatch which I got. I have been dying to trade to Crystal Shores for over a year, and this is the only deposit I have seen. I have had requests in, searched constantly, but no such luck. Funny, the one time I really wanted to go elsewhere, it shows up.

Hope you have better luck.

Anita

To expand on what Werner said, there are now two pools of Marriott availability - legacy and trust. When you deposit your week with II, you only have access to legacy inventory. Any unsold time at Crystal Shores (or any Marriott resort that wasn't sold out at the time they started the Destination Club points program) now goes into the trust pool, and can only be reserved by people who've bought points in the new system. Kinda sucks for us legacy owners, but that's how Marriott is trying to get us to add points.

(I just got back from a week at Imperial Palms, and attended a sales presentation while we were there.)

I got a trade for Jan of 2011 about two weeks before check in. I saw it online. It is a wonderful place but doesn't have many units. I was able to get a few days in 2012 using legacy points.

I got a trade for August 25 last year but rejected it since we decided to plan the Bahamas trip in July. I have seen plenty of availability last minute in II, mostly October through December 2010, then a few sightings in January. Nothing recently. But again what we see in II are just leftovers. I do think that not much of this resort ends up in II unless low season and last minute.

Hi Markbernstein. Did you get this info from the Marriott sales guy? Maybe someone else will comment but I do not think this is entirely true.

We have seen plenty of mini bulk deposits from Marriott lately for weeks with a check-in date of within 60 days or so. These weeks were clearly being held by the DC and deposited into II because those weeks weren't needed. Lots of Aruba and Hilton Head weeks have made their way into II like this. Last week, I even saw two Imperial Palms weeks deposited within flex time.

I think what you posted is true, except unused weeks held in the trust can and do get released into II for anyone (even legacy owners) to use if no one from the trust needs those weeks. For now many of the unused weeks held in the trust are getting dumped into II within 60 days of check-in, but a lot of weeks are making it into II this way, now.

What also appears to be happening is the trust is taking many of the prized legacy weeks deposited into II and holding them for points owners to use, but that is an aside.

markbernstein said:

To expand on what Werner said, there are now two pools of Marriott availability - legacy and trust. When you deposit your week with II, you only have access to legacy inventory. Any unsold time at Crystal Shores (or any Marriott resort that wasn't sold out at the time they started the Destination Club points program) now goes into the trust pool, and can only be reserved by people who've bought points in the new system. Kinda sucks for us legacy owners, but that's how Marriott is trying to get us to add points.

(I just got back from a week at Imperial Palms, and attended a sales presentation while we were there.)

Click to expand...

markbernstein said:

To expand on what Werner said, there are now two pools of Marriott availability - legacy and trust.

Click to expand...

To expand further, think of it as five pools.

Yes, there are two pools of inventory for Destination Club points reservations: the legacy exchange pool and the Trust pool. Inventory can move between those two pools. When a Trust points owner wants to use points for resort that does not have inventory in the Trust pool but that has inventory in the legacy exchange pool, Marriott swaps inventory between the two pools. As a result, Trust resorts become available in the legacy exchange pool.

Then there's all the inventory that was declared and sold as weeks. Think of this as the third pool (even though it's not a single pool, but pools of inventory at each resort). Owners of weeks can book their weeks or deposit their weeks with Interval International (II), just as in the past. In addition, enrolled weeks owners can now opt for Destination Club points. (That's how inventory gets into the Destination Club legacy exchange pool.)

There's still Interval International (II). Think of it as the fourth pool. Deposits into II can come from weeks owners or from the Trust (or even from non-Marriott properties).

Finally, there's the inventory that goes to Marriott International to book at a nightly rate. That's the fifth pool. WHen owners opt for Marriott Rewards points or if the Trust wants to monetize inventory that might otherwise go unused, it becomes available to the public at large through Marriott.com.

markbernstein said:

When you deposit your week with II, you only have access to legacy inventory. Any unsold time at Crystal Shores (or any Marriott resort that wasn't sold out at the time they started the Destination Club points program) now goes into the trust pool, and can only be reserved by people who've bought points in the new system. Kinda sucks for us legacy owners, but that's how Marriott is trying to get us to add points.

Click to expand...

It's not correct to say, "When you deposit your week with II, you only have access to legacy inventory." You have access to anything that was deposited into II from any source.

Trust inventory can (and does) go to legacy owners via the Destination Club and II. It just has to move into the right pool first.

markbernstein said:

(I just got back from a week at Imperial Palms, and attended a sales presentation while we were there.)

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It sounds as if a Marriott salesperson might have mistated the truth (or perhaps just didn't explain it well.)

Werner Weiss said:

To expand further, think of it as five pools.

Yes, there are two pools of inventory for Destination Club points reservations: the legacy exchange pool and the Trust pool. Inventory can move between those two pools. When a Trust points owner wants to use points for resort that does not have inventory in the Trust pool but that has inventory in the legacy exchange pool, Marriott swaps inventory between the two pools. As a result, Trust resorts become available in the legacy exchange pool.

Click to expand...

Hello Werner,

Could you please explain a bit further what this means? How is it possible for the trust to swap something it doesn't have? What I mean is what does the legacy exchange pool get in exchange for a legacy week? This makes no sense to me. Thank you for your insight.

Kate

exchanged 3 weeks concurrently

Last summer we exchanged 2 of our weeks in ( using summer Hilton Head) and a friend traded in (with NCV, gold I think, but could be plat) for the sme week in mid Aug (the 14th) bordering on shoulder season, since some schools are back or close to being back in session around this time, I suppose, but we had 3 villas and a great week with family and friends.

1st Class said:

Could you please explain a bit further what this means? How is it possible for the trust to swap something it doesn't have? What I mean is what does the legacy exchange pool get in exchange for a legacy week? This makes no sense to me.

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Let's suppose a Trust owner wants to use DC points to stay at Grande Ocean.

Grande Ocean was sold out long before the Destination Club began. So there's no Grande Ocean inventory in the Trust pool. (For this scenario, let's not consider the possibility that Marriott could pick up a limited amount of Grande Ocean inventory for the Trust by exercising ROFR.)

There are legacy owners at Grande Ocean who have enrolled in the Destination Club. When such an owner opts to turn in his or her week for DC points, a Grande Ocean week goes into the legacy exchange pool. So now there's "points" inventory for Grande Ocean, but it's in the wrong pool for the Trust owner.

To successfully fulfill the request of the Trust owner, Marriott can move that Grande Ocean inventory into the Trust pool and move same same amount of Trust inventory into the legacy exchange pool. For this example, let's assume Marriott moves some Crystal Shores inventory into the legacy exchange pool.

In the scenario above, both pools remain "whole" after the transaction. The point totals in each pool did not change. It was an even swap of inventory.

My understanding is that it can be a little more complicated than that. For example, Marriott can also use II as part of the process to get inventory to fulfill a request from a Trust owner.

If a Marriott salesperson claims that enrolled owners have no access to Trust inventory, that's technically correct, but it's misleading. Enrolled owners do have access to Trust inventory that's swapped into the legacy exchange pool. Without such swaps, Trust owners would have no access to older properties.

Thanks, Werner, your information is much more complete than mine was.

it is all very complex, but I think the key to Crystal Shores is in the DC points.

Since a lot of the inventory is points, it is only available for a points reservation. The question of legacy points vs trust points appears to not be meaningful.

The problem is getting an exchange through II since a Crystal Shores week is only available in II if someone reserved it and then turned it in to II, which doesn't sound like it would happen often due to the hight DC point costs.

The trust weeks can also make it to II through bulk deposits, but these seem to be pretty rare and often at the last minute. You would probably only see these if you have an ongoing search.

There was also the comment that Crystal Shores is rated very high, so it might not be seen in II for many Marriott platinum weeks until closer to the usage time.

FWIW, I reserved 6 days next January at Crystal Shores, but then switched for February when I could. The only points I have are the "legacy" points obtained from depositing my Ocean Pointe week with the Destination Club.

This was 10 months out from the Crystal Shores check in date, and I had not trouble getting the days I wanted.

Art

Werner Weiss said:

Let's suppose a Trust owner wants to use DC points to stay at Grande Ocean.

Grande Ocean was sold out long before the Destination Club began. So there's no Grande Ocean inventory in the Trust pool. (For this scenario, let's not consider the possibility that Marriott could pick up a limited amount of Grande Ocean inventory for the Trust by exercising ROFR.)

There are legacy owners at Grande Ocean who have enrolled in the Destination Club. When such an owner opts to turn in his or her week for DC points, a Grande Ocean week goes into the legacy exchange pool. So now there's "points" inventory for Grande Ocean, but it's in the wrong pool for the Trust owner.

To successfully fulfill the request of the Trust owner, Marriott can move that Grande Ocean inventory into the Trust pool and move same same amount of Trust inventory into the legacy exchange pool. For this example, let's assume Marriott moves some Crystal Shores inventory into the legacy exchange pool.

In the scenario above, both pools remain "whole" after the transaction. The point totals in each pool did not change. It was an even swap of inventory.

My understanding is that it can be a little more complicated than that. For example, Marriott can also use II as part of the process to get inventory to fulfill a request from a Trust owner.

If a Marriott salesperson claims that enrolled owners have no access to Trust inventory, that's technically correct, but it's misleading. Enrolled owners do have access to Trust inventory that's swapped into the legacy exchange pool. Without such swaps, Trust owners would have no access to older properties.

Click to expand...

Thank you, Werner. So basically Marriott is allowed to dip into both buckets at will, swapping points from, in your example, Crystal Shores, for a legacy week at Grande Ocean. Marriott is also free to deposit these weeks (both DC points and legacy) into II if they are not spoken for by points/trust owners? Do I understand correctly?

This raises another question -- how is the week selected for swapping? Is it like for like (platinum for platinum)? This system certainly appears to give Marriott a distinct advantage over legacy owners.

1st Class said:

Thank you, Werner. So basically Marriott is allowed to dip into both buckets at will, swapping points from, in your example, Crystal Shores, for a legacy week at Grande Ocean. Marriott is also free to deposit these weeks (both DC points and legacy) into II if they are not spoken for by points/trust owners? Do I understand correctly?

Click to expand...

Marriott is taking these actions to make the system work for owners.

As far as being able to allowed to "dip into both buckets at will, swapping points," is concerned, there are legal restrictions regarding what Marriott can and cannot do. Notice that my scenario of getting Grande Ocean for a Trust points owner doesn't work in the opposite direction. If I, as an enrolled legacy owner, want to book Crystal Shores, Marriott cannot simply grab Crystal Shores inventory from the Trust for me. The swap has to be initiated on the Trust side to maintain the integrity of the Trust.

II is part of the overall picture too.

1st Class said:

This raises another question -- how is the week selected for swapping? Is it like for like (platinum for platinum)? This system certainly appears to give Marriott a distinct advantage over legacy owners.

Click to expand...

There are a lot of details that are not clearly documented. But it's definitely not a simple matter of a platinum week here for a platinum week there. With inventory now mapped to points, it's more likely a matter of inventory that maps to 4,000 Trust points swapped for inventory that maps to 4,000 legacy exchange points.

Clearly this swapping is a good thing. Otherwise, Trust owners would be limited only to inventory owned by the Trust, and legacy owners would be limited only to inventory deposited by other legacy owners.

The good news for Trust owners and legacy owners is that, in the long run, the success of Marriott Vacation Club depends on Marriott's ability to keep owners satisfied. That includes not only running excellent timeshare resorts, but now also running an excellent, points-based reservation and exchange system for Trust owners and legacy owners.

Werner Weiss said:

Marriott is taking these actions to make the system work for owners.

As far as being able to allowed to "dip into both buckets at will, swapping points," is concerned, there are legal restrictions regarding what Marriott can and cannot do. Notice that my scenario of getting Grande Ocean for a Trust points owner doesn't work in the opposite direction. If I, as an enrolled legacy owner, want to book Crystal Shores, Marriott cannot simply grab Crystal Shores inventory from the Trust for me. The swap has to be initiated on the Trust side to maintain the integrity of the Trust.

II is part of the overall picture too.


There are a lot of details that are not clearly documented. But it's definitely not a simple matter of a platinum week here for a platinum week there. With inventory now mapped to points, it's more likely a matter of inventory that maps to 4,000 Trust points swapped for inventory that maps to 4,000 legacy exchange points.

Clearly this swapping is a good thing. Otherwise, Trust owners would be limited only to inventory owned by the Trust, and legacy owners would be limited only to inventory deposited by other legacy owners.

The good news for Trust owners and legacy owners is that, in the long run, the success of Marriott Vacation Club depends on Marriott's ability to keep owners satisfied. That includes not only running excellent timeshare resorts, but now also running an excellent, points-based reservation and exchange system for Trust owners and legacy owners.

Click to expand...

Hello Werner,

Yes, I did notice that legacy owners can't initiate a "swap". That is one of the points that concerns me.

You've offered a great deal of clear, easy to understand information. Thank you for your patience in helping me sort out some of the "mystery" of DC points. This has been truly helpful.

Kate

1st Class said:

Yes, I did notice that legacy owners can't initiate a "swap". That is one of the points that concerns me.

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I had an agent at Owners Services who speculated that it's because Marriott wants to sell DC points. That seems logical on the surface, but don't think it's the real reason.

Here's how I see it:

The owned inventory in the Trust is sort of a real estate "mutual fund." The Trust DC point owners can do things with Trust inventory, proportionate to their ownership interest. Among other things, they can use it, trade through II, trade for Marriott Reward points, or trade through the legacy owner exchange pool.

However, someone who does not own a piece of the Trust cannot simply grab something out of the Trust, even if they provide something of value in return. It's not exchange inventory; it's Trust inventory.

On the other hand, the legacy owner exchange pool is specifically set up to for trading. In a way, it's Marriott's own version of Interval International, except that the metric for exchanges involves DC points, not weeks.

If I, as a legacy owner, opt for DC points instead of using my week to stay where I own, I've effectively deposited that week into the exchange pool with the expectation that it will be used for exchanges.

I think that explains why moving inventory out of the Trust can be initiated by Trust owners, but not by legacy owners. However, in the end, Trust inventory does get into the legacy owner exchange pool whenever a Trust owner initiates such as swap.

Whether the Trust inventory that I want to trade into makes it into the pool and eventually turns into a reservation for me remains to me seen.

Werner Weiss said:

I had an agent at Owners Services who speculated that it's because Marriott wants to sell DC points. That seems logical on the surface, but don't think it's the real reason.

Here's how I see it:

The owned inventory in the Trust is sort of a real estate "mutual fund." The Trust DC point owners can do things with Trust inventory, proportionate to their ownership interest. Among other things, they can use it, trade through II, trade for Marriott Reward points, or trade through the legacy owner exchange pool.

However, someone who does not own a piece of the Trust cannot simply grab something out of the Trust, even if they provide something of value in return. It's not exchange inventory; it's Trust inventory.

On the other hand, the legacy owner exchange pool is specifically set up to for trading. In a way, it's Marriott's own version of Interval International, except that the metric for exchanges involves DC points, not weeks.

If I, as a legacy owner, opt for DC points instead of using my week to stay where I own, I've effectively deposited that week into the exchange pool with the expectation that it will be used for exchanges.

I think that explains why moving inventory out of the Trust can be initiated by Trust owners, but not by legacy owners. However, in the end, Trust inventory does get into the legacy owner exchange pool whenever a Trust owner initiates such as swap.

Whether the Trust inventory that I want to trade into makes it into the pool and eventually turns into a reservation for me remains to me seen.

Click to expand...

Werner,

Posts 10, 13, 18 and 20 of this thread (all of which you authored) are among the best posts explaining the exchange operations of DClub on this entire board.

Well done and thank you.

windje2000

I second this. I love when posts take on a life of their own, this is one of the things that makes tug so much fun.

When I posted my question, I never expected to get so much information, so much GREAT information, I should add.

windje2000 said:

Werner,

Posts 10, 13, 18 and 20 of this thread (all of which you authored) are among the best posts explaining the exchange operations of DClub on this entire board.

Well done and thank you.

windje2000

Click to expand...

good morning

Thanks Werner for the great summary!!!

I truly believe despite the technical/legal differences between the two pools, they essentially co-mingle. Trust owners over time will definitely snag exchange inventory, causing a maturation of crossover Trust inventory for Legacy point owners....

I have snagged Kauai Lagoons (Trust) and have made numerous calls to VOA's who have confirmed Oceana Palms and Crystal Shore availability...

The problem is that the sales weasels need to try and sell more points to Legacy owners. The price of these points is way over what even retail purchasers paid for their weeks and don't look very attractive to Legacy owners. The sales force imply perhaps even directly state that Trust points are dramatically better with bogus statements such as "Can't see Trust inventory" with Legacy points. They also perpetuate the " a small purchase of Trust points, morphs all of your points"...At my last sales chat, I pulled out my checkbook and offered to write a check for 1500 pts. if the morph thing would be gauranteed in writing. I was declined!!!

Although I was very upset when Tiel first revealed the 2 Buckets of points thing, It has turned out to be a functional non-issue...

points are just points!!!

!@#oceanwatch!@#

windje2000 said:

Werner,

Posts 10, 13, 18 and 20 of this thread (all of which you authored) are among the best posts explaining the exchange operations of DClub on this entire board.

Well done and thank you.

windje2000

Click to expand...

I Agree.

I wish there were a way (if there is please let me know) to click a button on a specific thread or post that would save it to my account as a favorite. When I see things like this that I feel I will want to reference sometime down the road , I could just search my favorites.

Maybe I could just post on such treads a one word code, like !@#OCEANWATCH!@# and just search that code in the future...A favorites button would be easier.

puckmanfl said:

Although I was very upset when Tiel first revealed the 2 Buckets of points thing, It has turned out to be a functional non-issue...

points are just points!!!

Click to expand...

After reading Werner contribution to this thread, it is a challenge to add more...

However, I will agree with puckmanfl that currently I do not see a difference between the 2 pools when using my DC legacy points. I easily booked Crystal Shores last February using DC legacy points and all dates, view and sizes were available.

One explanation can be that the Trust has still a lot of unsold inventory (especially from new resorts like this) and needs to do something with it. So, they initiate last minute trades (II and legacy pools) to safeguard (or salvage) the inventory. Who knows.