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Points Values -- please help

GregT

GregT

TUG Member
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
7,154
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1,948
Location
Carlsbad, CA
Resorts Owned
Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, Aruba Ocean Club, DC Points HGVC: Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, TradeWinds, Worldmark
All,

I'm trying to compile a spreadsheet that shows what the points redemption values and the MFs are for the Marriott properties. I've prepared the attached based upon earlier threads.

This is not a skim-rant, I'm trying to identify which properties have the best ratio of MFs per points redeemed.

When looking at the attached file, please consider if I've correctly captured the following for your MVCI property:

1) View
2) Size
3) Points given to you if you redeem
4) MFs

There are numerous inconsistencies/missing information. Please PM with any data corrections so that I can correct and publish the accurate info. If it is missing entire properties, please send me that too. Thanks very much!

Greg
 
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All,

Many thanks for the responses -- please continue to provide feedback so I can continue to fill in blanks.

Thanks again!

Greg
 
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Wow TUGgers!

Thanks all for the PMs and emails with updates/corrections -- please keep them coming, I still need a fair amount of info...

Special thanks to JimF :clap: who had a similar project going on the side and is merging his records with the file -- big effort here!

Please continue to send me a PM or an email with the scrubbed information:

Looking for:

1) Property
2) View
3) Size
4) Season
5) DC points
6) MFs for 2011

We are also going to start putting in the MRP value for the week, so if you have the option to get MRPs, please send us that info too.

I'll upload the revised file asap -- and will keep bumping this up too for a day or two until it's more progressed.

Way to go TUG and thanks for the help and information!

GregT
 
Greg,

I have been thinking about undertaking this project for quite some time, so I really appreciate your efforts with this!
 
All,

Many thanks for the assistance (especially JimF!) and I appreciate the corrections/clarifications (although I still think there are a number of errors in the data).

It's apparent that this project will take awhile to fully populate -- but it's getting better and better and I hope its a useful exercise. I'll keep populating it on my own and will repost sporadically as it gets more complete.

Please do look at the attached and if you see an error, or have data to add, please forward it to me. Thanks again!

All the best,

Greg
 
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All,

The attached has been cleaned up a bit to eliminate duplicate lines/entries and I've hidden rows where I have no information (still not perfect of course!).

I've included some missing MFs from eBay listings, so the data for those is not confirmed -- they are listed in red.

Please see the attached revision -- I'll periodically upload new versions as they become more complete and always welcome corrections and comments. Please also note that MRPs may not agree with what you're offered -- apparently different owners get different MRP point deals based upon when they bought???

Best,

Greg

Note: If anyone would like the XLS file, please email me and I'll send it to you. Thx
 
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GregT said:
All,

The attached has been cleaned up a bit to eliminate duplicate lines/entries and I've hidden rows where I have no information (still not perfect of course!).
Click to expand...

I think it may actually be helpful to see those rows with no information. By that I am thinking you mean resorts where you don't have point values or MF amounts? If so, I think it would be most helpful for the document to show all resorts, room types, and views regardless of what information is available. Then we really know what holes still need to be plugged.


I've included some missing MFs from eBay listings, so the data for those is not confirmed -- they are listed in red.

Please see the attached revision -- I'll periodically upload new versions as they become more complete and always welcome corrections and comments. Please also note that MRPs may not agree with what you're offered -- apparently different owners get different MRP point deals based upon when they bought???

Best,

Greg

Note: If anyone would like the XLS file, please email me and I'll send it to you. Thx
Click to expand...

I think this is a great document for viewing the points and MF for each unit. Though I am not sure what the purpose of MF Ratio per DC points is? Since resales that close after 6/20/2010 aren't eligible to enroll, finding the lowest ratio really is of no benefit. It wouldn't help me to seek out and buy up a bunch of Mountainside Platinum weeks ($0.18 per points, the lowest I found) because I can't enroll them in DC anyway.

Now if down the road Marriott allows resales bought after 6/20/2010 to enroll, then this will be helpful. Though that coould be 10 years down the road.
 
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What Were They Thinking?

This list really illustrates the disunctional way that point values were assigned to specific weeks/ resorts. Why would Oceana Palms Gold (which includes summer and fall weeks for beachfront location in South FL) receive only 2635 pts. while Grand Ocean Gold in Hilton Head receives 3325 pts. Royal Palms (on the Marriott World Center property which is a convention center) receives fewer points than Harbour Lake, which was previously not even a MVC resort.
 
Superchief said:
This list really illustrates the disunctional way that point values were assigned to specific weeks/ resorts. Why would Oceana Palms Gold (which includes summer and fall weeks for beachfront location in South FL) receive only 2635 pts. while Grand Ocean Gold in Hilton Head receives 3325 pts. Royal Palms (on the Marriott World Center property which is a convention center) receives fewer points than Harbour Lake, which was previously not even a MVC resort.
Click to expand...

I think that Royal Palms and Sabal Palms are undervalued because so many owners trade yearly for MRP, so Marriott already has a lot of inventory.
 
We were told they based the point values by taking the current retail prices as of 6/20 and dividing them by 11.
 
dioxide45 said:
We were told they based the point values by taking the current retail prices as of 6/20 and dividing them by 11.
Click to expand...

If that were true, the retail price for a Gold OV 2BR for Oceana Palms would have been $28,873, and for Silver OV 2BR for Ocean Pointe = $33,550.

This would also mean that a Harbour Lake red week was selling for $5000 more than Royal Palms. I find that hard to believe.
 
dioxide45 said:
I think this is a great document for viewing the points and MF for each unit. Though I am not sure what the purpose of MF Ratio per DC points is? Since resales that close after 6/20/2010 aren't eligible to enroll, finding the lowest ration really is of no benefit. It wouldn't help me to seek out and buy up a bunch of Mountainside Platinum weeks ($0.18 per points, the lowest I found) because I can't enroll them in DC anyway.

Now if down the road Marriott allows resales bought after 6/20/2010 to enroll, then this will be helpful. Though that coould be 10 years down the road.
Click to expand...

I think there is still a great deal of value in having the MF/point ratio. There are still some resorts selling weeks (Caribbean) that I imagine it is pertinent for. Also, we don't know that Marriott won't allow enrollment from resale weeks purchased from them. I also think we'll see Marriott allow enrollment of more recently purchased resale weeks if you purchase point from them (ala Starwood style "retro"). Finally, I think it's also useful when considering how much to rent your points for.

GregT, many thanks for this!
 
I like it because it concisely shows what my cost per point is for each of my resorts enabling me to easily calculate what I am actually paying for a dc
exchange using my points. Also, it helps me see what Marriott deems as their highest demand properties, and what properties I may someday look to buy (I think Marriott will almost have to allow in additional wks at some point)
Jmho!
 
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TUGgers,

Thanks again for the feedback, I continue to get a nice steady stream of updates. I've uploaded v5 of the document -- and revealed all rows as per Dioxide's request.

I wonder if we may (eventually) begin to see ROFRs on the properties with the best MF ratio -- anything under $0.30 per DC point provides both a high point property for DC to sell (when it needs more points for the Trust) and also some form of profit component on MFs, if Marriott can charge $0.40 for MFs for the related DC points and only pay $0.30 for the ROFR'd property -- which it would have ROFR'd at tomorrow's depressed prices.

I don't know if Marriott can "profit" from the MF spread, or if the $0.40 is an honest average of all properties currently in the Trust.

Some interesting but not useful data points -- average MF ratio on the spreadsheet is approx $0.36 -- average DC points for a 2BR platinum is 3,886.

Best,

Greg


Edited to add: I went back to the Trust inventory of the 42M points originally deposited and looked at the MF ratio of those properties. Although imprecise, it suggests that the average MF of those properties is $0.37-$0.38, so while it appears Marriott is charging more, hopefully they are saving the delta to be able to keep the $0.40 steady in the future. However, another way to keep the $0.40 from rising in the future would be to ROFR low MF ratio properties and put them in the Trust.
 
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Nice resource. Thanks for all the work.

I notice grand ocean - of looks light on points.

I was told points values reflect price divided by 9.20 at program initiation. Like everything from Marriott sales, they may not have the real info.

Interesting on the fee averages. We would need to weight the fees by numbers of units at each resort to see the real effect on mf for Marriott. They do have to pick up more partial stay costs, and possibly more spoilage if fragmented days are lost more than without dc. Early data suggests the shorter dc stays are prevalent.

I don't think they will ever aggressively do rofr. They need scale, and that would be a slow way to build inventory and makes Marriott responsible for more fees to resorts. I think they may open up better terms to join dc, and will purchase and rebrand more properties. This gives them new operations contracts, working facilities, and can very quickly add trust points. If longer term improves, maybe they start building again. All IMHO.

Back on topic, this is a great resource.

-dan
 
Great resource!

This is a terrific resource. Thanks for putting it together. Is it possible for this to become a sticky?
 
dioxide45 said:
We were told they based the point values by taking the current retail prices as of 6/20 and dividing them by 11.
Click to expand...

What they didn't tell you is that they adjusted retail prices on 6/19 at 11:59pm... :)
 
All,

I've taken Dioxide's suggestion and uploaded the file to Tripod -- please find it at gtibbitts.tripod.com


I would appreciate if someone could check the link to see if it uploads cleanly (I'm not so sharp with computers). I'll also put the link into my account somehow like others have done, so that the link is there.

Please continue to send me updates and corrections -- thank you!
 
GregT said:
All,

I've taken Dioxide's suggestion and uploaded the file to Tripod -- please find it at gtibbitts.tripod.com


I would appreciate if someone could check the link to see if it uploads cleanly (I'm not so sharp with computers). I'll also put the link into my account somehow like others have done, so that the link is there.

Please continue to send me updates and corrections -- thank you!
Click to expand...

The file downloaded cleanly for me. Thanks for doing this.
 
GregT said:
All,

I've taken Dioxide's suggestion and uploaded the file to Tripod -- please find it at gtibbitts.tripod.com


I would appreciate if someone could check the link to see if it uploads cleanly (I'm not so sharp with computers). I'll also put the link into my account somehow like others have done, so that the link is there.

Please continue to send me updates and corrections -- thank you!
Click to expand...

Downloaded fine for me.

Here is a clickable link.

http://gtibbitts.tripod.com/
 
Grande Ocean Platinum Ocean Front needs adjustment

As stated in an earlier post, Marriott's Grande Ocean Platinum Ocean Front looks to be incorrect. If the Platinum Oceanside is 4200 pts, then the Platinum Ocean Front must be more than 3275, as shown, and more than Platinum Oceanside at 4200 pts. Sorry, but I personally do not know the point value for this property. Anyone own at Grande Ocean that can verify point value?

Thanks for designing this excellent reference.
 
ral said:
As stated in an earlier post, Marriott's Grande Ocean Platinum Ocean Front looks to be incorrect. If the Platinum Oceanside is 4200 pts, then the Platinum Ocean Front must be more than 3275, as shown, and more than Platinum Oceanside at 4200 pts. Sorry, but I personally do not know the point value for this property. Anyone own at Grande Ocean that can verify point value?

Thanks for designing this excellent reference.
Click to expand...

I agree, it has to be an error, so I've removed it from v7 -- hopefully a Grande Ocean OF - Platinum will chime in with corrected DC points value.

Dan_hoog, sorry I missed your earlier alert on the error.

Thanks,

Greg
 
points question

I believe the Grande Ocean Platinum Oceanfront should be 5075 points. Also, the MF on the Frenchman Cove 3BR platinum is $1,642.
 
Looking at the MRP numbers, you can add that DSVII shoulder season offers 110,000 pts for the 2 bedroom units.
 
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