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Non-traditional Interval Ownership Discussion of interval ownership programs other than traditional timeshares (fractional ownership, destination clubs, etc.)

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Old September 13, 2010, 07:32 AM   #1
Kagehitokiri2
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organized

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri2 View Post
equity, varying
- AK
- m private residences
- hideaways club
- EE
- luxus vacation properties
- rocksure (third fund - euro capitals - is larger than first two)

nonequity, backed?, not out of woods
- ER
- Q

other nonequity
- UE (all news is bad news)
- oyster circle (no news is bad news)
more of a breakdown >
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri2 View Post
luxus / rocksure - barebones

hideaways - little to no debt, 2 DC partnerships (EE BT)

AK - 5% debt cap, few leases, fewer hotels, AK partnership

m private residences - high debt cap (leases = ?)

EE - high debt cap, leases, 1 DC partnership (hideaways)

Last edited by Kagehitokiri2; September 13, 2010 at 03:16 PM.
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Old September 13, 2010, 07:32 AM   #2
Kagehitokiri2
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http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=219
- deposit comparison
- ratios

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=192
EE ratios are not unlike TH's

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=444
EE beats Q for private chef?

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=440
upcoming EE with lower property values?

Last edited by Kagehitokiri2; September 13, 2010 at 03:14 PM.
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Old September 13, 2010, 07:33 AM   #3
Kagehitokiri2
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dues >
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri2 View Post
solstice was $2K/nt but theyre gone. that leaves 2 price levels. ~$1K/nt (most incl AK) and ~$500/nt (hideaways and EE for example) luxus is very little, but thats because its $1MM with no debt, and realistic deposits. also no extras.

when you compare the breakdowns for AK and EE, its nowhere near that large of a difference. EE is adding a management fee when they are full, and AK dues include reserve.

actually that was an interesting thing i did on DC4MS that ended up being deleted.

looking at EE when they add mgmt fee, and if they had maximum debt. >
Quote:
i think my calculation was something like 7.5% over 10 years, and i got ~$10K per member per year

thats in addition to mgmt fee of ~$3K per member per year

mgmt fee is ~20% increase, and combined they would be almost 100% increase
(i used 7.5% and 10 years for debt, semi-randomly. but this gives a general idea.)
continuing re EE >
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri2 View Post
travelguy,

for me, the "unanswered question" is what is tied to interest payments.

although i guess there is no reason they cant still have debt at sale time, and just deduct it from distribution.

changing 10 years to 30 years would drop it 40%? that would be ~$6K per member per year.
AK >
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarheelTraveler
Dues are divided as follows:

82.5% club operating expenses: property taxes, insurance, utilties and maintenance, members services, member travel benefits, etc.

12.5% Management fee to A&K manager (of course, this is not all profit, as they actually pay for the management of the club using this fee); to me this is analogous to a property manager for a condo complex or a HOA

5% goes into the capital reserve fund
2009 - 40 weeks (in jun jul aug) @ 12 villas
2010 - ? weeks @ 5 villas
(didnt they have more than 5 at some point in between?)

originally 13 european hotels (from bellehavens) now down to 4
AK vs EE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri2 View Post
AFAIK weve only seen AK dues breakdown. that was enough for me to compare with EE. both of these were not THAT different >
1. (AK minus management minus reserve) vs EE
2. (AK minus reserve) vs (EE plus upcoming management).

Last edited by Kagehitokiri2; September 13, 2010 at 03:11 PM.
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Old October 23, 2010, 09:25 AM   #4
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wow rereading hideaways info, looks like they plan to have no debt when closed, but have NO debt cap..

their FAQ says Q3 2010 but has not updated that figure of 20% debt after 2008

also interesting in terms of 20% equity sold in early 2009 >
http://www.fractionallife.com/news_t..._investors.asp

Last edited by Kagehitokiri2; October 23, 2010 at 09:31 AM.
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Old October 23, 2010, 09:50 AM   #5
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2010 sales

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=603
ER 100+ (150 in 2009) - incl 50% deferred 10 years, 75% deferred 1 year, 10+ days

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=70
http://www.thehideawaysclub.com/archives/1086
160 total members puts them in the lead for equity and means 40 members so far (55 in 2009)

http://quintess.com/pdf/news-crittenden-june-2010.pdf
Q 25 in H1 - incl 100% deferred 1 year right? also 10+ days
AK 25 incl 20 trial (deferred 2 years) in H1... hmm... >
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri2 View Post
http://destinationclubnews.com/News_...ed_Pricing.php
we have done approximately the same number of two year trial memberships and equity memberships during the first two months of 2010 as in all of 2009
http://www.sherpareport.com/destinat...rows-2009.html
http://equityestatesfund.com/media/n..._FOX_Biz_1.pdf
EE <10 in H1, then picked up? (30 in 2009)

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=892
rocksure

http://www.sherpareport.com/destinat...vate-0610.html
m private residences holding at 145

...

2009 source >
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=264

...

http://quintess.com/pdf/news-Critten...rt_01%2010.pdf >

AK 143 members jan 11 2010
15-20 weeks in 5 villas

Q 75 new/upgrades in 2009

interesting says "about 170" for ER instead of 150
says 800 in 2008... ER said 380 >
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=603

Last edited by Kagehitokiri2; October 24, 2010 at 11:04 AM.
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Old October 25, 2010, 10:51 AM   #6
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Where did Peter Ito/ UCC Counsel go?

Has anybody been able to follow what happened to Peter Ito? It appears on docket 384 that Ito withdrew from being the UCC's lawyer, then withdrawn, then withdrawn again-Is a triple negative a postive? Is this why the UCC has been so docile?
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Old November 6, 2010, 06:26 PM   #7
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transparency (equity) >

m private residences
http://www.pr-inside.com/former-m-pr...es-r961169.htm
Quote:
every dollar is covered by the operating costs. Every light switch, every cup of coffee, all the debt, all the salaries, all the sales, sales incentives, referral programs, every freaking dollar is in the annual dues.
AK
Quote:
It's not micro level detail, but IIRC, we see as an example,the varying costs of each property, and also the general expense
categories - all audited by KPMG...There are probably 15 or so expense categories. Also the CFO has no problem sending additional information if you want it.
EE
?

hideaways
?

rocksure/luxus = cheap barebones

Last edited by Kagehitokiri2; November 7, 2010 at 12:57 PM.
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Old November 7, 2010, 09:42 AM   #8
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Resorts: HGVC South Beach, HGVC Plantation Beach Club, Sea Pines Plantation
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime View Post
Has anybody been able to follow what happened to Peter Ito? It appears on docket 384 that Ito withdrew from being the UCC's lawyer, then withdrawn, then withdrawn again-Is a triple negative a postive? Is this why the UCC has been so docile?
Maybe the better question is who is paying the UCC legal retainer? It may be futile for anyone to pony up the cash required for any representation if it's clear there are no assets or that the secured/super-priority parties have control of any liquidation value.

UCCs typically evaporate quickly once they find out there is no reason for pursuit.
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Old November 7, 2010, 12:52 PM   #9
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id like to try to keep this thread focused on dicsussion of above data

all the UE discussion is in other threads
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Old November 18, 2010, 05:58 PM   #10
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Q says 30 new/upgrades so far in 2010, now 540+ members
suggests crittenden number also includes upgrades

oyster is still alive, with 5 properties in exchange with Q in 2011

Last edited by Kagehitokiri2; November 18, 2010 at 06:01 PM.
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Old February 14, 2011, 03:21 PM   #11
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i havent kept updating 2010 sales numbers

...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri2 View Post
re lost deposits >

yellowstone club world chapter 7 had 3 people seeking $1.5MM each

15 members of TH paid a $1.3MM deposit, then $80K > $160K in dues for legendary retreats before TH filed chapter 11 about a year later. including opp cost, thats ~$1.6MM for a max of 56 nights.

8 solstice sky members paid deposits up to $2.49MM
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1...521448,00.html
Quote:
35 "founder's circle" slots in the club, which offer lower membership fees and other benefits.

Last edited by Kagehitokiri2; February 14, 2011 at 03:44 PM.
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