PIC Program

Can you use resale weeks in the PIC program? If so would they count towards VIP? What are the total points you have to purchase to get 2 weeks into PIC? The reason I am asking is I have the opportunity to purchase 2 3 bed fixed weeks which have MF of $600 total for the 2 combined. If I am reading the PIC description right that would give me 508K points for around $800 a year in MF which seems really low but I don't know what the dev purchase would have to be to see if it would trump all of the savings.

Jason

Jason,
PIC weeks are NOT Wyndham weeks or resorts. They are RCI resorts which can be used as Wyndham points each year based on size and seasonIF:
1) You BUY new points directly from the developer
2) You already own these weeks


You can NOT use FIXED WEEKS at Wyndham which are not converted in CWA points.

To converted Wyndham FIXED WEEKS to Wyndham points, you have to have brought those FIXED WEEKS from the developer also. You can convert when you buy Developer Points or pay a separate fee (about $2400 per week).

VIP is a sales tool. The benefits have been eroded repeatly the last several years (they can be changed at the whim of Wyndham).

Sorry ---

Linda,

These are non Wyndham weeks which is why I think the MF are lower. I would purchase the fixed weeks and have them transfer done before I would initiate the PIC purchase. Even if I can't get VIP, if I could get points with MF for less than $2/k for MF it would be about $1500 a year in savings over the standard $5/K average for Wyndham points. If I was able to get VIP for as long as it lasted which we all know could be until tomorrow then bonus but I was looking at the cheaper MF compared to what a Wyndham resort would be.

Jason

jjmanthei05 said:

Can you use resale weeks in the PIC program? If so would they count towards VIP? What are the total points you have to purchase to get 2 weeks into PIC? The reason I am asking is I have the opportunity to purchase 2 3 bed fixed weeks which have MF of $600 total for the 2 combined. If I am reading the PIC description right that would give me 508K points for around $800 a year in MF which seems really low but I don't know what the dev purchase would have to be to see if it would trump all of the savings.

Jason

Click to expand...

As long as those weeks are trade with RCI and not Wyndham's resort, it can be resale.

If both are RCI redweek, yes, you can get 508k points. And yes, it does count toward VIP because all the points are given by Wyndham. But you have to purchase developer points

I have no idea if the program still running or if there are any change, but used to be it is 77k min purchase for 1 week, and next week is somewhere around 49k (or 42k, can not remember). But that is a while ago. Nowadays, you will be lucky if you can find any saleman do that. Since it has been a lot of monitoring problem. But I believe it still exists, just become a way for sales to ask you buy more points.

Good luck.

Jya-Ning

We sat through a presentation last week, and the salesman specifically offered a contract that included a PIC option for a couple of our existing 3BR units to get 508k points (and VIP status). If I recall right, it was about $15k for the required points (something like 140k) in order to use PIC for two units. That's about $14k more than what the points would sell for resale, so weigh out those VIP benefits. Also, I think there's a fee to convert the weeks to Wyndham points.

Michael, how was the Bali Hai clubhouse and pool? No one seems to be able to answer that question. We own at Bali Hai but rarely stay there, except a night or two in the presidential units. Did you go by Shearwater? You have to see it to believe it.

Wyndham is nuts, in my opinion. They change their minds all of the time about the PIC program. I was recently told they only allow one PIC week. They used to take unlimited PIC weeks, then they took four, then it was two, and last I heard before this, one.

I didn't check out the Bali Hai clubhouse or pool. I did ask the Ka'eo Kai concierge and she said that the pool was finished but that they hadn't started on the new clubhouse due to the economy.

We didn't make it by Shearwater.

The salesman told me that two was the maximum number. You have to have a specific number of developer-purchased points to qualify, though.

MichaelColey said:

We sat through a presentation last week, and the salesman specifically offered a contract that included a PIC option for a couple of our existing 3BR units to get 508k points (and VIP status). If I recall right, it was about $15k for the required points (something like 140k) in order to use PIC for two units. That's about $14k more than what the points would sell for resale, so weigh out those VIP benefits. Also, I think there's a fee to convert the weeks to Wyndham points.

Click to expand...

Here is how I was looking at it.

648K points resale
Acquisition Cost $1,000
Yearly Maint Fee $3,240
Plus Partners Fee $2,495

Total yearly cost $3,240
Total sunk cost $3,495

648K Dev (140 Dev 508 PIC)
Acquisition Cost: $16,000
Yearly MF of Dev Points: $900
Yearly PIC MF: $600
Yearly PIC Exchange Fee: $178

Total Yearly Cost: $1,678
Total Sunk Cost: $16,000

So $16,000 - $3,495 = $12,005

Payback 12,005 / 1,562 = 7.5 Years

That is with no VIP benefits calculated in which we all know can and do change at anytime. It is still a lot of money upfront.

Jason

You need to stay at Shearwater next time, Michael, and I know you had a wonderful time and are already thinking about it. We love Kauai and Maui.

Do not recommend PIC!

jjmanthei05 said:

Payback 12,005 / 1,562 = 7.5 Years

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This presumes you will get NO benefit from being VIP (I do not want to discuss this further but even with VIP being whittled away slowly there is still SOME benefit IF you already have it).

There is both a huge hassle and additional expense $/K that WYN charges for your converted PIC points. Once you're in the PIC program they are going to charge you the PIC fees, whether you hand the non-WYN TS's over to WYN every year or not. Add to that the hassle of the annual "banking" of the PIC units with WYN (not a simple process). The limit is definitely two (2) these days.

We had a total of 5 PIC units (prior to limitations being applied) and we eventually pulled them all out and had to WAVE our PIC "rights" to get them to stop charging us the PIC fees. Not a recommended method of getting to VIP. More of a PITA than it's worth.

MHO.

jjmanthei05 said:

Here is how I was looking at it.

648K points resale
Acquisition Cost $1,000
Yearly Maint Fee $3,240
Plus Partners Fee $2,495

Total yearly cost $3,240
Total sunk cost $3,495

648K Dev (140 Dev 508 PIC)
Acquisition Cost: $16,000
Yearly MF of Dev Points: $900
Yearly PIC MF: $600
Yearly PIC Exchange Fee: $178

Total Yearly Cost: $1,678
Total Sunk Cost: $16,000

Click to expand...

You might also want to throw a non-Wyndham alternative into the mix. What do you hope to accomplish with 648k points? If I'm not mistaken, that gets about 3-4 good weeks in a 2BR or 20+ weeks with last minute exchanges. I think you can do either of those cheaper outside of Wyndham.

rickandcindy23 said:

You need to stay at Shearwater next time, Michael, and I know you had a wonderful time and are already thinking about it. We love Kauai and Maui.

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I definitely have my eye on Shearwater and Point at Poipu for next time. Loved the upper floor Ka'eo Kai unit, though!

I once considered the PIC program as a way to obtain VIP on the cheap. I ran the numbers, and it seemed like a viable option. But in the end, I decided not to do it for the following three reasons:

1. Considering how cheap my resale points were in 2008, and how cheaper they are currently, the upfront costs through PIC were not justifiable.

2. If I needed more vacations than my points could offer, the cheapest alternatives are renting from Wyndham or RCI. If you are already in the system and can rent, why buy more?

3. I simply don't trust Wyndham. They can change VIP whenever they want. They can change PIC. They can change anything. Why should anyone buy anything directly from this company?

Just my humble opinion, but after considering all the possible options, I'm glad that I purchased resale. I've given up ever considering VIP, and I won't be attending any future "owner updates."

My family and I are going to Angels Camp this labor day weekend, and who knows, maybe we will strike it rich panning for gold! But even if we do, I'll still not buy anything from Wyndham.

Tim :rofl:

MichaelColey said:

You might also want to throw a non-Wyndham alternative into the mix. What do you hope to accomplish with 648k points? If I'm not mistaken, that gets about 3-4 good weeks in a 2BR or 20+ weeks with last minute exchanges. I think you can do either of those cheaper outside of Wyndham.

Click to expand...

We live an hour and a half from Glacier Canyon in Wisconsin Dells. That is the main reason we purchased through Wyndham in the first place. The kids (2 and 3) love to go there to play in the water parks. We generally only do 1 full week stay in Florida and the rest weekend or long weekend stays in the off season usually booking about 15 days out. We go through a lot of Reservations and house keeping credits but even with those its still only 30-40% of the cost compared to booking directly through the Wilderness. That is why we would use so many points from Wyndham because we don't travel much but when it's 10 degrees outside, it's nice to get away for a little while.

Jason