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Old August 26, 2010, 06:48 PM   #1
Venter
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Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Points for sale on E-Bay

I suppose other TUGGERS probably have seen this. It looks like it is a TUGGER selling this. http://cgi.ebay.com/Marriott-Vacatio...?pt=Timeshares

Seeing that the speculation on TUG is that points will sell for between .40 and .50 dollars the asking price seems a bit ridiculous. Also some weeks in fine locations with choice of booking date will go for about $3500 if you are looking for a prime week. Not so desirable weeks can be picked up for less than 1000

Maybe the seller can comment on his thinking and other TUGGERS if they will consider such an asking price.

I for one would not be tempted easily except if I have firm plans for a special holiday in 2012 but with the rules as they are it is risky as your confirmation is not certain seeing that it is legacy points.

Last edited by Venter; August 26, 2010 at 06:53 PM.
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Old August 26, 2010, 07:04 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venter View Post
I suppose other TUGGERS probably have seen this. It looks like it is a TUGGER selling this. http://cgi.ebay.com/Marriott-Vacatio...?pt=Timeshares

Seeing that the speculation on TUG is that points will sell for between .40 and .50 dollars the asking price seems a bit ridiculous.

Maybe the seller can comment on his thinking and other TUGGERS if they will consider such an asking price.

I for one would not be tempted easily except if I have firm plans for a special holiday in 2012 but with the rules as they are it is risky as your confirmation is not certain seeing that it is legacy points.
Venter,

Thank you -- you are correct it is my auction, and it is an experiment that I'm running. Personally, I think one of the most important things about the Marriott system is the ability to transfer points.

We had a separate thread speculating on what rental values would settle at, and I offered (and continue to believe) $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range. But some, (mostly non-TUGgers) speculated that it could reach $1.00 per point, which seems extremely high to me.

I've been waiting for someone to pick up the ad because I am interested to hear the dialogue around the framework I've created. I've actually been running the experiment for 2 weeks now (but was restricted to Lodging until I figured out how to move it over to For Sale). It's made a big difference in Viewers -- original ad was 153 viewers with 3 watchers, current ad (after 6 hours) is 24 Viewers with 1 watcher.

So, this really is an experiment -- my current thought on why so little contact are as follows (but too early for conclusions):

1) Renting points is still a new concept in the Marriott world
2) $0.75 - $1.00 is (much) too high
3) 2012 is too far off for people to be planning about now
4) eBay is not a good forum for people to check (Lodging at least)

One of the big reasons I enrolled is because I believe transferring points is very very powerful. I expect it will take time for a market to develop, but why own (more) points if you can rent them cheaply (and I don't mean $1.00)?

I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who bought 1,500 points and now realizes they can't do anything with them and figures out it's better to rent them for $0.75 (or $0.60 or $0.50).

I'm just curious. Thanks for picking it up, I figured I'd post on it when the listing ended to avoiding appearance of promoting it. It really is an experiment and I value TUGgers input.

And the thoughts on the numbers of points available to rent out are that I would still have 4,450 points left over, which can get me 5 nights in MOC Lahaina Mtn/Garden, which I think is a good points value to piggyback onto my other week.

Thanks again!

Greg
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Old August 26, 2010, 07:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregT View Post
I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who bought 1,500 points and now realizes they can't do anything with them and figures out it's better to rent them for $0.75 (or $0.60 or $0.50).
That sounds like a great idea to me .... hope it works.
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Old August 26, 2010, 07:23 PM   #4
Venter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregT View Post


We had a separate thread speculating on what rental values would settle at, and I offered (and continue to believe) $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range. But some, (mostly non-TUGgers) speculated that it could reach $1.00 per point, which seems extremely high to me.


Greg
I would certainly buy for $0.30 if I saw this many points this far out because it will allow me to plan a really good holiday tagged on to my other weeks.

It will be interesting to see how the experiment turns out.
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Old August 26, 2010, 07:35 PM   #5
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[Buying/selling/renting/trading is not permitted in the TUG discussion forums. - DeniseM Moderator]

Last edited by DeniseM; August 26, 2010 at 07:59 PM.
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Old August 26, 2010, 07:58 PM   #6
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Folks - discussing this in the abstract is permitted on TUG - making offers is not.
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Old August 26, 2010, 08:21 PM   #7
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I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who bought 1,500 points and now realizes

I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who bought 1,500 points and now realizes they can't do anything with them and figures out it's better to rent them for $0.75 (or $0.60 or $0.50).

--- I'm new to the timeshare industry and just had a stay in Hilton Head. After this I was planning to buy in at 1500 points. Now this does NOT seem like a good idea. Is that a good appraisal?
Cost of the plan is $13,800 + $596(closing costs), then $50/mo maint. fee.

Concern is:
1. if I banked 1500 for a year and had 3000 points every 2 years, what kind of place could I get?

Marriott sent me all these forms to sign (Purch settlement summary, special warranty deed....), but here's what I have to laugh at: They want me to sign, agreeing to a.) terms, conditions.... of the title agreement... b.)cond, restrictions.... of Trust Memorandum... c.)use restrictions .... in Reservation Procedures for MVC.... d.) taxes, assessments for current & subsequent years.......
BUT, they didn't send the TITLE AGREEMENT, TRUST MEMORANDUM< RESERVATION PROCEDURES or in adies on taxes/assessments... Now that ticks me off. Any comments?

Thanks,
Russ
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Old August 26, 2010, 08:27 PM   #8
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I am very interested to see the response to your ebay listing. Please report back and tell us if anyone bids.

If ebay isn't the best place to rent points where else do you think would be a good option?
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Old August 26, 2010, 09:00 PM   #9
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Plausible ? Yes!

Just suppose your resort offered 4500 points but you wanted to get two rooms at an upgraded resort that costs 5100 points per week. After borrowing from next year you would still be 1200 points shy. I don't think it's all that implausible that someone would spend $1K to get the deal done.

A large family gathering in Maui, for instance, could be priceless. I know mine was when we got two 2BR units at Waiohai in 2007.
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Old August 26, 2010, 09:39 PM   #10
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I saw this auction also. Funny; I knew it was a Tugger because there is a little phrase at the bottom that said "TUG" on it, and I thought, "Hmmm...."

Good luck. I am barred from ever participating because I won't have a resale deed pre-June 20th. Ah well.
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Old August 27, 2010, 06:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
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--- I'm new to the timeshare industry and just had a stay in Hilton Head. After this I was planning to buy in at 1500 points. Now this does NOT seem like a good idea. Is that a good appraisal?
Cost of the plan is $13,800 + $596(closing costs), then $50/mo maint. fee.

Concern is:
1. if I banked 1500 for a year and had 3000 points every 2 years, what kind of place could I get?
Thanks,
Russ
Russ, welcome to TUG, and please take your time in studying this -- it's very difficult to justify the purchase price of $9.20 that Marriott is asking, plus the $0.40 in MFs. I think many many of the existing properties could be rented directly from the owner for the equivalent of $0.40/point on redweek.com -- so why pay the up-front (except that the system provides flexibility/cancelation protection).

I also encourage you to consider a resale week -- but you would be outside of the points system, which may or may not be important.

There is a points chart in one of these threads, but as an example, to go to Marriott Ko Olina and get a Mountain View 2BR requires 4,575 points in the better seasons -- an Ocean View is 5,725 points. Unfortunately, 3,000 points every other year may preclude you from doing what you want to do (and you're paying $600 every year for that).

Please keep researching....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAX Mom View Post
I am very interested to see the response to your ebay listing. Please report back and tell us if anyone bids.

If ebay isn't the best place to rent points where else do you think would be a good option?
I really hope that TUG develops a sub-forum specifically for renting points. I don't think the Exchange Marketplace is well suited to points rentals -- at WMOwners, there is a forum specifically devoted to points rentals and it's extremely helpful -- at any time, you can see the points available for rent, when they expire, and what asking price is -- and then they're redited when they're no longer available.

It would be in TUG's best interest to become the points rental spot of choice for Marriott points owners. It's the future of Marriott vacationing and will become incredibly valuable to skimmed points owners and retail points purchasers who didn't buy enough points.

Good luck to all,

Greg
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Old August 27, 2010, 07:28 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by GregT View Post
It would be in TUG's best interest to become the points rental spot of choice for Marriott points owners. It's the future of Marriott vacationing and will become incredibly valuable to skimmed points owners and retail points purchasers who didn't buy enough points.

Good luck to all,

Greg
I agree with Greg. TUG could and should be THE place for a MDCP rental marketplace.

Or even several boards! Why several boards? Wouldn't it be great if the market place started to develop a defacto pricing schedule. Short just a few points (under 500) to rent to do a trip you want: rent them on this board for $1 each. Need a larger amount (500-1500): rent them on this board for $.70 each. Need a whole week's worth: rent them on this board for $.35 each.

If such a liquid marketplace developed, that would be enough to tip me towards enrolling.

And TUG would be in another business ... because you would have to be a member to get on those boards.
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Old August 27, 2010, 07:43 AM   #13
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Greg T:

Your e-Bay listing makes it clear that you must be a Destinations Club member (Trust Owner) to take advantage of your offer.

Not just anyone can rent these points on the 'secondary' market.

This fact might not be obvious to everyone who might be casually browsing these pages for pros & cons of the new program.

Just thought I'd mention it. Hope you don't mind.

Herb

PS -- I'm very interested to see the results of your experiment.

Last edited by Herb33; August 27, 2010 at 07:46 AM.
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Old August 27, 2010, 07:50 AM   #14
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Greg T:

Your e-Bay listing makes it clear that you must be a Destinations Club member (Trust Owner) to take advantage of your offer.

Not just anyone can rent these points on the 'secondary' market.

This fact might not be clear to everyone who is casually browsing these pages for pros & cons of the new program.

Just thought I'd mention it. Hope you don't mind.

Herb

PS -- I'm very interested to see the results of your experiment.
I don't understand, Herb. If if have enrolled owner points and I rent trust points from Greg, can't I reserve from non-trust deposited inventory with the combined points?

And haven't we also seen on this board at least a couple of references to suggest that sometimes MVCI is, in fact, taking some trust inventory and depositing it just to meet some enrolled owners' DCPoints reservation requests. (e.g. http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129429)

Last edited by cbdmvci; August 27, 2010 at 07:52 AM. Reason: add link
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Old August 27, 2010, 08:01 AM   #15
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Aaargh ... I thought I was being clearer than that. Sorry.

I'm just saying that someone who rents Greg's points who is NOT a member of this new MVC points program won't be able to do anything with them.

Maybe I should've just quoted from Greg's listing ...
"This is an auction to purchase for single use Marriott Vacation Club Destinations points in the new Marriott points system -- and you must already be enrolled in the new program to utilize them."
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Old August 27, 2010, 09:52 AM   #16
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I guess I'm kind of amazed?

There appears to be a basic assumption that if you have trust points you can get any room any time you want? Ignoring the fact that there are only so many rooms in a specific property, Marriott only owns a percentage of those rooms? I'm looking at this new Destinations program as the equivalent to II, if there are no rooms deposited, you don't get a match?

Am I the doubting Thomas, or am I missing something fairly basic?
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Old August 27, 2010, 10:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
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There appears to be a basic assumption that if you have trust points you can get any room any time you want? Ignoring the fact that there are only so many rooms in a specific property, Marriott only owns a percentage of those rooms? I'm looking at this new Destinations program as the equivalent to II, if there are no rooms deposited, you don't get a match?

Am I the doubting Thomas, or am I missing something fairly basic?
You are right in the deposits concept, but if the Trust has a lot of unsold inventory (Ko Olina's 3rd tower) + weeks deposits, then there could be more availability than in II. Also people have mentioned and have great concern that Marriott can go into II's inventory to do a trade for some good weeks, but I'm unclear on that. It would probably be a lot harder to trade into a resort that has been sold out.
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Old August 27, 2010, 10:23 AM   #18
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Good luck with your auction. If you get that price, the Marriott Vacation Club points system is a winner. Unfortunately, I think you will be lucky to get $.30/point.
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Old August 27, 2010, 10:25 AM   #19
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I forgot to mention, eBay will cancel your auction because it violates rules for renting timeshares. You auction must be associate with one and only one resort. You will be required to state a resort even though points can be used at any of them. As soon as they find out, they will cancel the ad.
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Old August 27, 2010, 10:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venter View Post

Seeing that the speculation on TUG is that points will sell for between .40 and .50 dollars the asking price seems a bit ridiculous.

I'm sorry, I don't understand, why would the asking price for renting be the same or lower than the M/F price?

I rented our ST Kitts for $3400 for the week. We get 5025pts for that week so if I rented the points we ended up getting $0.676 per point. Why would I only rent them for the M/F cost, aren't we suppose to try and get some usage cost (inital purchase price cost) back as well?

Is it because there is a limited number of people to rent to (only MDC owners)?

I know that this isn't DVC or probably as popular, but DVC points rent for at least double the M/F costs and it's still alot cheaper than renting from Disney.

Renting MDC points for double the M/F's is still cheaper than renting from Expedia, Hotels.com or Marriott even with the MOD code.

Do we know if Marriott will be renting single use pts and what they might be charging yet?

Thanks
Crystal
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Old August 27, 2010, 10:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by BocaBum99 View Post
I forgot to mention, eBay will cancel your auction because it violates rules for renting timeshares. You auction must be associate with one and only one resort. You will be required to state a resort even though points can be used at any of them. As soon as they find out, they will cancel the ad.
That would make a sub-forum for selling/renting points here on TUG very useful.
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Old August 27, 2010, 10:36 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BocaBum99 View Post
I forgot to mention, eBay will cancel your auction because it violates rules for renting timeshares. You auction must be associate with one and only one resort. You will be required to state a resort even though points can be used at any of them. As soon as they find out, they will cancel the ad.
Thanks for the tip -- I've now added Hawaii into the name.
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Old August 27, 2010, 10:36 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cbdmvci View Post
I agree with Greg. TUG could and should be THE place for a MDCP rental marketplace.

Or even several boards! Why several boards? Wouldn't it be great if the market place started to develop a defacto pricing schedule. Short just a few points (under 500) to rent to do a trip you want: rent them on this board for $1 each. Need a larger amount (500-1500): rent them on this board for $.70 each. Need a whole week's worth: rent them on this board for $.35 each.

If such a liquid marketplace developed, that would be enough to tip me towards enrolling.

And TUG would be in another business ... because you would have to be a member to get on those boards.

I also think that this would be a great idea to have it here!!

.
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Old August 27, 2010, 10:51 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WINSLOW View Post
I'm sorry, I don't understand, why would the asking price for renting be the same or lower than the M/F price?

I rented our ST Kitts for $3400 for the week. We get 5025pts for that week so if I rented the points we ended up getting $0.676 per point. Why would I only rent them for the M/F cost, aren't we suppose to try and get some usage cost (inital purchase price cost) back as well?

Is it because there is a limited number of people to rent to (only MDC owners)?

I know that this isn't DVC or probably as popular, but DVC points rent for at least double the M/F costs and it's still alot cheaper than renting from Disney.

Renting MDC points for double the M/F's is still cheaper than renting from Expedia, Hotels.com or Marriott even with the MOD code.

Do we know if Marriott will be renting single use pts and what they might be charging yet?

Thanks
Crystal
Simple. When owners get behind on their mortgage payments, they find they can't sell it, they have points they aren't going to use, then they take anything that they can get. I expect to get point for about $.15/point in a year.
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Old August 27, 2010, 11:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregT View Post
I really hope that TUG develops a sub-forum specifically for renting points. I don't think the Exchange Marketplace is well suited to points rentals -- at WMOwners, there is a forum specifically devoted to points rentals and it's extremely helpful -- at any time, you can see the points available for rent, when they expire, and what asking price is -- and then they're redited when they're no longer available.

It would be in TUG's best interest to become the points rental spot of choice for Marriott points owners. It's the future of Marriott vacationing and will become incredibly valuable to skimmed points owners and retail points purchasers who didn't buy enough points.

Good luck to all,

Greg
Another vote for a sub-forum for points rentals. I would be very interested in renting someone's points and it would be great if I could post an ad stating how many points I needed. (Note: this isn't a solicitation. I have my 2011 vacation already booked. I won't need points until 2012 and can't plan that far in advance.)
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