Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

We attended Marriott Ko Olina presentation yesterday. According to the sales representative, Marriott will be releasing new ownership use rules in June. The new rules will likely change the priority of bookings for any owners that did not buy directly from Marriott. If so, I believe the net effect would be to de-value the timeshare resale price.

Accordingly, "they are trying to protect owners that purchased directly from Marriott". Of course, "external sales owners would still retain title, but may end up on the first floor at a time they do not wish to visit."

I have no idea if it is just a sales pitch, "telling it like it is" as the rep said, or what.

Has anyone heard this presentation?

Sales Pitch

mm251 said:

We attended Marriott Ko Olina presentation yesterday. According to the sales representative, Marriott will be releasing new ownership use rules in June. The new rules will likely change the priority of bookings for any owners that did not buy directly from Marriott. If so, I believe the net effect would be to de-value the timeshare resale price.

Accordingly, "they are trying to protect owners that purchased directly from Marriott". Of course, "external sales owners would still retain title, but may end up on the first floor at a time they do not wish to visit."

I have no idea if it is just a sales pitch, "telling it like it is" as the rep said, or what.

Has anyone heard this presentation?

Click to expand...

Most likely a tainted sales pitch. Scare tactic.

There are thousands of Marriott owners who purchased resale.

bal⋅der⋅dash [bawl-der-dash]

–noun
1. senseless, stupid, or exaggerated talk or writing; nonsense.

What possible motivation could a salesman for the developer have for telling a big whopper like that?

mm251 said:

We attended Marriott Ko Olina presentation yesterday. According to the sales representative, Marriott will be releasing new ownership use rules in June. The new rules will likely change the priority of bookings for any owners that did not buy directly from Marriott. If so, I believe the net effect would be to de-value the timeshare resale price.

Accordingly, "they are trying to protect owners that purchased directly from Marriott". Of course, "external sales owners would still retain title, but may end up on the first floor at a time they do not wish to visit."

I have no idea if it is just a sales pitch, "telling it like it is" as the rep said, or what.

Has anyone heard this presentation?

Click to expand...

Here we go again!

While I think that nothing any salesperson says about a particular future change should be accepted as gospel, I do think that we've heard from enough different sources now to accept that something is definitely in the air for sometime around June. It doesn't seem like it would hurt to keep our ears open for the kernels of truth that may be catalysts for rumors, don't you think? I'd rather be able to anticipate that something is going to happen, whatever it may be, than pretend that all we're hearing means absolutely nothing.

[edit] Though I will say that without the info (limited as it was) that Dave got from his insider source and posted to TUG, I wouldn't be nearly as interested in the rumors. Dave carries a certain validity, IMO.

If later this year, Marriott does start a point based system, they can ( and sounds like will) have different rules /cost to join the system.

BUT the idea that Marriott can " change the priority of bookings for any owners that did not buy directly from Marriott." is BULL. They just can not do that.


PS At this time I'd tell any salesperson "Why would I even think of buying now when you just said that all the rules will be changing this summer? I'll wait till summer and see if this new program is something I'd like. "

My gut feeling is the OP has an ulterior motive in posting.

Don't fall for it folks.

Cheers!

Bill4728 said:

... PS At this time I'd tell any salesperson "Why would I even think of buying now when you just said that all the rules will be changing this summer? I'll wait till summer and see if this new program is something I'd like. "

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Exactly! Except I'd take that a step further and apply it to any Marriott resale purchase, too (if I was thinking about it, which I'm not.) There have been too many indicators for changes this year to make me comfortable with any Marriott purchase. That's why I don't understand why any possible (probable, IMO) changes this year aren't factored as heavily as the current favorable economic conditions, when discussions about resales happen here.

Right on Bill! Let's face it. When Marriott gave up their use of ROFR it was unable to stop the flood of resale inventory created by the recession. When you have a product that can't distinguish itself between new and used you cannot expect to sell at prices more than double or triple the declining resale value.

The resale market has broken to the downside and there is nothing to suggest that it will recover anytime soon. Economists tell us that when supply equals demand the prices will stabilize. With high maintenance fees a lot of folks have decided that owning a timeshare is just not worth it. They are voting with their feet. They're leaving and probably won't return. Much like the disenchanted boat owners.

Changing systems or punishing current owners will only result in the further lowering of prices. Marriott needs resale buyers to pay the maintenance fees. Why turn them into sellers?

It's entirely possible for Marriott to abandon the timeshare business as we know it. Many of their properties were jointly developed with other companies (Eg: MGC/Glen Carbon) with Marriott as the management. Sort of like their hotel business. Marriott is essentially a property manager and hotelier. They may revert to it with a revised business plan. I doubt that the sales people are talking about that possibility.

If Marriott devalues their timeshare product with this new system, then every Marriott owner better start worrying about owners walking away from paying Marriott's maintenance fees.

I hope they do like Hilton Vacation Club does, but from the sounds of that survey they sent out last year, it doesn't sound like they will. I've debated getting out now, but I only own an EOY so I don't have much to lose. I'll wait and then if I have to, I'll pay somebody to take my Marriott week if the new system totally stinks.

NWL said:

My gut feeling is the OP has an ulterior motive in posting.

Don't fall for it folks.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

I won't speculate on that. I seem to recall another thread where someone was told by a salesperson at Ko'Olina that resale owners would get a lower priority when booking their week. Sounds like the same source.

There is really no reason for Marriott to do this. Most people buy from the developer because they don't realize resales are so much cheaper. Those people will buy no matter what. The only potential buyers whose decision would be effected by such a system are those who know about resales and it is likely they would be even less inclined to purchase developer since they would understand the resale value would be very low for a unit with a booking penalty.

sjuhawk_jd said:

Here we go again!

Click to expand...

Those are my words, too.

I would like to say that last year I bought 2 Marriotts weeks, both resales. Marriott just treat me with a high quality service during the transfer, reservation, and all my stays (exchanges and getaways).

I really don't think Marriott is that kind of company that would hurt any of their custmers. Time will tell us if I am right or not.

A resale buyers deed is the same as a direct buyers deed as they were both originally purchased from Marriott. If Marriott tries to make changes that benefits one owner over another based on whether the unit is a resale of not will open a flood of lawsuits against Marriott.

This is exactly why I chose NOT to do the 90 minute tour this past Sunday at Grand Chateau. I know too much about the Marriott system (thanks partly to Tug) and am too hard headed to just sit there and take it. Ultimately it could have been ugly. :annoyed:

I actually had a presentation scheduled and cancelled 2 hours before going.

They would be on the wrong side of a little thing called legal rights of owners

mm251 said:

We attended Marriott Ko Olina presentation yesterday. According to the sales representative, Marriott will be releasing new ownership use rules in June. The new rules will likely change the priority of bookings for any owners that did not buy directly from Marriott. If so, I believe the net effect would be to de-value the timeshare resale price.

Accordingly, "they are trying to protect owners that purchased directly from Marriott". Of course, "external sales owners would still retain title, but may end up on the first floor at a time they do not wish to visit."

I have no idea if it is just a sales pitch, "telling it like it is" as the rep said, or what.

Has anyone heard this presentation?

Click to expand...

While nothing can't and won't be tried by desperate sellers giving priority to a group based on HOW they purchased (resale or retail) is not something they could get away with. Under any type of legal challenge they would not be able to prove any difference in the owners thus two different types of rights would not stand up. If it were possible to make that type of change to a deeded ownership you can be sure Wyndham would have done it years ago as they are the poster child for devalued resales. But they can't - nor could Marriott or any other seller/management - as your rights to reservations are guaranteed as part of the original prospectus. That is one document that is sacrosanct in condo/timeshare sales and owners rights. No one can change it after you buy according to those rights. No one. And certainly not for a reason like obtaining your legally acquired rights from another owner (resale) rather than the developer / management (retail).

They could try it if they are stupid enough to think they are bigger than the law but they would lose once it was challenged. And they would pay for the damage done to anyone who was impacted by it. It can't hold up even if it happened.

I too attended a presentation at Ko Olina recently. When I asked the question - why purchase retail vs seondary, I was told the following:

1) Secondary purchasers can not exchange weeks for Marriott Reward points (which I understand to be true).
2) Secondary purchasers will be given less optimal units than retail purchasers (my guess is that this is nonsense).
3) That later this year, the exchange system will be changed, and that secondary purchasers will not be able to benefit from a 24 day Marriott exclusivity period when making exchanges through Interval International. I don't see how they could get away with this.

I don't understand why Marriott would do such a thing to it's owners.

If a salesperson tells me that my unit which if need be, had to be resold and that my buyer of my resale unit would not have rights that they should have had with the title transfer, why would I buy from Marriott in the first place.

I think this would scare away anyone thinking of buying a Marriott.

In these uncertain times you never know if you will need to resell.

Marriott would be shooting themselves in the foot with stupid rules like this.

Take a look at posts 1-4 in this thread:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114724

In post 1 the OP states he was told resale buyers have no 13 month rule. In post 4 the Marriott rep did not put this in writing...

This is just a scare tactic and you can find many similar threads over the years. I find it had to believe they cannot treat owners in the same resort and season differently. If you own Platinum season at NCV you get whatever a Platinum season owner is entitled to according to the bylaws.

Since it is obvious any discrimination against resale buyers would impact resale values, I'd go back to the sales office and tell the salesperson that you don't see a reason to buy retail if they are going to initiate policies which devalue resales and would make you lose 90% of your "investment" on an eventual resale... A model based on selling to ignorant people (who don't know of the resale market) cannot persist in the internet age and with a 7-10 day right or recission.

This makes twice I've heard this date of June. Once here and once on the Ocean Pointe Yahoo group. Apparently Fletch mentioned in his Marriott no more thread. I'm still of the opinion that I'll believe it when I see it and, when I see it, it will need to be either free or a very reasonable price with benefits that make me want to change to a different reservation system.

Of course, the big question is, did they say which year?

Here's the link to Fletch's thread with the post about points in June. It's on page two first post on that page. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115046&page=2

newowner said:

3) That later this year, the exchange system will be changed, and that secondary purchasers will not be able to benefit from a 24 day Marriott exclusivity period when making exchanges through Interval International. I don't see how they could get away with this.

Click to expand...

Is the 24 day deposit/ reservation period with II a guaranteed "right" of ownership? I am not sure it enters in to any of our agreements. More likely it si written somewhere they have the right to change or scrap it. Not sure if that would extend to changing introducing a preference system to developer bought versus secondary market purchases.

Beverley

Although I don't believe the salesperson referred to in the OP was accurate, particularly with respect to assigning units at a home resort, the salesperson was almost certainly accurate that big changes are forthcoming.

It is pretty clear that Marriott will be making some changes in June or, if the new program is delayed, sometime soon thereafter. What will the new program be? We don't know very much. What does seem pretty clear is that there will be a points program that will apply to many (most?) future timeshare sales by Marriott, will involve exchanging based on points and will be available to current Marriott timeshare owners - for a price. That price is supposed to be nominal (whatever that means) for those who have purchased their timeshares from Marriott and probably quite a bit more expensive for those who have purchased resale. The changes are not likely to affect the privileges that we are all guaranteed by the legal documents of our respective resorts. Rather they will likely offer an exchanging “enhancement” for those who wish to participate.

How do we know that some big changes are coming? We first heard about the changes almost two years ago. I have had some clearly-in-the-know Marriott people confirm those changes to me on several occasions over the past two years and I reported that information here each time. What we are now hearing is about the same as what I originally heard way back when. The only difference is that the effective date has been delayed by about six months, not unreasonable for such a big project in a down economy. Further, Fletch, a much respected member of the TUG community in past years who has just resigned from a very lucrative sales position at Marriott, has confirmed that a new program will be forthcoming this year (see the above link to his posts).

All we can do is wait to see what the details are and continue to speculate.

As to whether the changes will be good or bad, I'm certain the answer is a resounding YES! There is no way to be sure, but I'm guessing that platinum week owners at top resorts who bought from Marriott will love the new program and resale owners of bronze and silver weeks will hate it.

Interesting responses to Mariott sales pitch.

I see this is not a new thread, although I have seldom read the forum. I posted because, as a resale owner, I was quite unnerved by the portended change. I hope the skeptics are correct and this is nothing more than an ineffective sales tactic. I did tell the salesperson that if that was the way the company treated owners, I certainly would not buy resale or otherwise. The impact on value for either owner or Marriott would not be beneficial. Doesn't make sense does it?

I would also be cynical of this post and its intent, had I not made the posting. Whether Marriott can or will make any changes remains to be seen. It is helpful to read the replies.

With the exception of the presentation, we are still enjoying a wonderful time at Ko Olina and have received exceptional service.

I see change as just being change. When change happens it will make me have to rethink how I manage my ownership and how I manage my exchanges.

Right now I own in two points based reservations systems. Hilton had their system when I purchased throught them. Diamond resorts bought the Sunterra system and made it available to Polo Towers owner when they intergrated Polo Towers into Sunterra's existing portfolio. The change with DRI took a little getting use to but, there were very good benefits that made the change worth it. Essentially, my DRI weeks had become strictly exchange weeks and points provided greater value.

Now how it will look when Marriott finally makes a change I can't say. We use our master suite at Ocean Pointe and exchange the studio portion. The studio portion is typically exchanged for a cheap long weekend getaway. Will I be able to use points and stretch that value into two long weekends? Will the points from that silver season studio not be enough to get the one bedrooms I've been pulling using the weeks exchange program in place now? Only time will tell and, that will in part determine what I think of any new program.

Now our ownership at Grand Chateau might be a little different. It's a platinum 3 bedroom that we've used request first exchanges the past two years and, I plan on doing that again this year. While we enjoy the resort and Vegas is an acceptable vacation for March, we've started branching out and trying new places we haven't been to before. It will be interesting to see what benefits a points program (assuming that's what Marriott is planning) will have for our usage of this resort.

In the end, the most important part will be cost vs benefit. In my mind I've already paid Marriott in full. If new buyers are automatically granted access to any points based reservation system I'm not going to be to thrilled if I have to pay yet another premium to also be included in any new internal exchange system. While I'll remain a wait and see skeptic I am curious as to what they plan on rolling out. Heck, it might even be worth sitting through a presentation for the next month when we're in Hawaii. At the very least maybe go to the wine/cheese owners update (non-sales persentation) to see if anything is said. As a bonus I'd be happy to take any incentive they might offer. Nothing like getting a little information and getting a premium for my time as well.

There are only two groups of people who have a problem with people who bought or are buying resale, sale people and some people who bought developer. Marriott as a whole, Owner Services and resort staff, could really care less how you bought.

When June comes and goes with no changes, as I would rate at about a 80% chance, those who said that these changes will happen will say that deadlines change and talk about how big changes take time to implement and hammer out causing the delays. We have heard this and excuses for delays for years now, why is June 2010 any different?